Author Topic: dead horse ideas :P  (Read 539 times)

disturbd

  • Wayfarer
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
dead horse ideas :P
« on: February 16, 2003, 04:55:35 am »
Hello Peeps,
I recently found PlaneShift when i was looking around sourceforge.. thought that it was worth a look, and i must tell you that i think it looks great :).

I do have a few ideas, most of them have been voiced on this forum in one way or another, but i wish to clarify a few points.

ok, here we go..

1)  Religions
Firstly they have to be well thought out, everything from ranks to rewards, Deities to factions, allowances and penalties, forms of worship and types of faith etc.

2)  Underground organisations
err.. you know what i mean :P.
Thieves guilds and assassins guilds.  And they cant be 100% player controlled.
Why?  OK.  Heres a little story:
Grimnar the dwarf decides that Elliensi the Lemur needs to be put out of her misery.  So he finds out how to contact a certain organsation, and pays up, and they kill the victim.

ok great.  but it wont work.  Why does our dwarf want the other person dead? There is no reason.  Perhaps the character has somethign that the dwarf wants.  Perhaps that item is worth a lot of money.  But if it is, it will be worth less than what he is paying the guild to go and get it for him.  Why would the guild do that? They have the item, and even if the dwarf hasnt payed the full amount yet (or even anythign at all) the item is worth more.  So why not sell the item instead?

That is a small example.  Player run thieves guilds and assassins guilds never work out, unless there is someone at the top with unlimited funds so that the guild has no need of profit.

3)  Fluid Economy
A lot of MMOG economies go stale quickly, because supply is unlimited (through npc stores who sell at constant prices with unlimited stocks) and demand is limited.  What you need is a fluid economy, where only the most common items are sold at NPC stores.  You should be able to sell uncommon items to these stores (for high prices to be sure) and these stores should then be able to resell these items at prices hugely inflated to what they paid.
But most trade should be done between players

What does this achieve?
Well, assume i can sell this item called a Leaf of Fallium (some form of curative reagant) to the local adventurers store for 10 trias, and then that store will sell it for 50 trias, then that will get me set up fairly quickly (i know i have a buyer, and if i need it later, i can get it again).  But at the same time, a player character has a store (or at least a bank vault with heaps of items in it for sale) and he will buy this leaf for 15 trias, then the player with the leaf will sell it to him over the store based purely on how much he can get for it.  Now that player can go to the store.  If there are no other leaves of fallium there, then he can inflate his price to 70 trias since there is no competition (but there is likely to be competition soon, since these items are not unique, merely not common).  Thus the merchant is limited, because everyone knows what price they can get it at the store for, hence the merchant is likely to sell it at, say, 35 trias.  Therefore, the money doesnt go to the NPC store (where it vanishes from the economy) but into a player characters hands.  Its a triple win situation: firstly the player who finds the leaf, gets an extra 5 trias to what he usually would.  Secondly the merchant player gets a profit of (35-15=20) trias, and also the next character who wants to buy one of these leaves can, for 15 trias less than if they had to buy it from the store.

4)  Quests
The idea behind quests is that the player cannot gain rank (or skills or items or whatever) without completing these quests.  The player should also get some reward for completing the quest, but that reward should be no more than 75 percent of what that item could be sold for (if it is an item quest), or 75 percent of the bounty on that monster (if it is a monster quest) etc.

What does this do:
a) player is reward twofold for completing quest, firstly with dosh and secondly with rank or skills or whatever.
b) guild is helped because they get 25 % (or whatever the kept percentage is) of the loot, and hence are able to continue to operate.

Why would players do a quest where they can get more from selling the object than taking it to a guild? Because they need to complete the quest to gain rank or skills.  In most other games, the player received no other reward, which made completing the quest... more boring, less rewarding.
Why would the guild offer a reward for completed quests? To get more people.  If you offer 90% of the reward, then u are going to get more followers than a guild who offers 40%.  Thus if u have 100 people, and they have only ten, you make 1000% compared to 600% (if u take my meaning).

This also boosts the economy.

5)  Jobs
Jobs need to be more than just previous vocation that teaches skills.  They need to provide money.
I should be able to go to the local blacksmith (if i am a dwarf skilled in smithing) and say to him, i will work for the next week of real time, and the smith works out how much u will be paid, and skills u will learn from it in that time.  The player will be unable to touch his character during that week (unless he/she decides to forfeit the lost time and any money/skills promised).
The reason for this might be that the player hears that a huge bounty is being offered for a certain item, and the player knows where one is, and wants to get the bounty quickly b4 someone else.




Ok, sorry about the long rant, and dead horse ideas

Thats all folks.
Later,
me.



the distinction between genius and insanity is in other peoples\' perception

Zeus

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2003, 06:00:40 am »
I have just a couple thoughts about jobs and economy.

My thought about economy is that the NPC\'s should have a limited amount of money and they get X amount per real time day (up to a maximum amount).  This would keep the economy a bit more in the players hands.

And about jobs, let\'s say you went to the blacksmith for a job, but instead of making your char non-playable, the smith gives you a quota you have to fill for the week you are working with him.  This would make the game a bit more player friendly seeing as how you could do a few units here and then do some combat or quests or whatnot and then come back and do some more.  but if you don\'t fill your quota, you are deducted whatever you didn\'t finish plus X% as a penalty.

Fanomatic2000

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2003, 02:02:15 pm »
Ummm, first I have to say that PvP isn\'t allowed, so there will be no \"assassin\" guild, unless being an \"assassin\" means that you kill NPCs.
Second I must say that your \"job\" idea is the crappiest idea I\'ve ever heard at this forum ever.
LOL, do you really belive in that idea yourself? :D
You don\'t get a job from an NPC blacksmith. You ARE a blacksmith, and it\'s YOU who decide what you wanna make and what time it\'s gonna take.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2003, 02:08:18 pm by Fanomatic2000 »


Be a member of our Mirthful community.
Join us today!   :]

Note:  This is my old account. I am now known as \"Jadd\".

Abemore

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 508
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2003, 04:29:30 pm »
i like the idea of NPC\'s with a limited amount of money, but here\'s the problem i see with it:  
it worked in Morrowind because you were the only player selling to NPC\'s (because its single player), and you could just choose to rest for 24 hours and then continue to sell.  But in a MMO environment... wouldn\'t the NPC\'s run out of money with everyone selling things to them?  I just don\'t know that it would work in a MMO game.  I\'d like to be able to barter though.

The jobs are a neat idea, but why wouldn\'t people just create a new character/account to work as a blacksmith?

Awaiting Invite from the Ordo Illuminatis.

Before you criticize someone, remember to walk a mile in their shoes...
...then when you criticize them, you\'ll be a mile away ...and you\'ll have their shoes.

disturbd

  • Wayfarer
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
in reply to fanomatic...
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2003, 02:14:24 am »
Hate to disabuse you, but there is PvP

you might say, no theres no Unwanted PVP.. but actually there is... or at least my perception of it was this: Both have to agree on a duel, and if one does not agree and the other still attacks that person, the government and the Gods (i assume DM\'s?) will do something to fearful to make that person never want to do it again.


maybe im wrong, and it is programmed into the game that you cannot attack another player without permission (ie, the game physically stops you), and if so i apologise.

But if it is the first case, then i can see an assassins guild operating.  Yes, they will be under kill on sight orders, perhaps the gods will try to blast them whenever they attack a favoured minion etc... but the assassins guild is lucrative enough to cover these shortfalls.


And about the vocation scenarios...
Firstly, do you think that as soon as u decide to make a sword that you are going to be able to do it??
NO.  You can try.. and that trying may help you learn, but at first you wont earn any money off a half mangulated sword.

Hence my idea was trying to fill the gaps...
firstly, you get money, since the owner of the store who you are apprenticed to pays you, and you earn experience, assuming that he teaches you.

Now i realise that this is stupid insofar as it takes you player out of the game totally, and so i think the idea about quotas is good...

and why?
because of quality.

i might buy a sword off a master smith PC, but im not gonna buy a sword off a barely skilled player when i can get it for slightly dearer but better quality at the local WalMart.

anyway, /rant
later, me.

Link

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2003, 02:48:21 am »
There will not be open PvP, there will be organized PvP in arenas only, but you can\'t just run up and attack another player.
The Great Linksunius

Fanomatic2000

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2003, 05:28:41 am »
Oops, sorry, I have to correct myself.
I meant no OPEN PvP, not that PvP doesn\'t exist in the game at all (It was very late when I wrote the reply sorry :rolleyes: )


Be a member of our Mirthful community.
Join us today!   :]

Note:  This is my old account. I am now known as \"Jadd\".

Abemore

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 508
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2003, 02:27:36 pm »
assassin guilds often times do a lot of work for the government, and as such are aloud to exist.

Awaiting Invite from the Ordo Illuminatis.

Before you criticize someone, remember to walk a mile in their shoes...
...then when you criticize them, you\'ll be a mile away ...and you\'ll have their shoes.

Zeus

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2003, 04:19:12 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Abemore
i like the idea of NPC\'s with a limited amount of money, but here\'s the problem i see with it:  
it worked in Morrowind because you were the only player selling to NPC\'s (because its single player), and you could just choose to rest for 24 hours and then continue to sell.  But in a MMO environment... wouldn\'t the NPC\'s run out of money with everyone selling things to them?  I just don\'t know that it would work in a MMO game.  I\'d like to be able to barter though.

The jobs are a neat idea, but why wouldn\'t people just create a new character/account to work as a blacksmith?


My idea was that they WOULD run out of money, therefore keeping instant millionares to a minimum and to also increase the amount of trade between players.

Link

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2003, 09:06:10 pm »
Since this is a realistic game, it only seems logical that they will have a limited amount of money. When people start BUYING from the trader then the trader will have more money. They should also have a wieght limit of the ammount of goods they can hold.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2003, 09:06:37 pm by Link »
The Great Linksunius