More on Pking

[Cabra]

I know Pking has already been covered in one of the previous threads, but I don\'t really think the pks put up a good fight.  I know pking is very difficult to balance, with all the whiny rpers and exploiting pkers(l33tkulh0my69) and such, but I feel pking is a vital part of any mmorpg. In a mmo, the primary goal is to interact with lots of other people(why else would it be a mmo?). I feel implementing it as an arena is a sorry excuse for a cop-out. Players should be forced(to some extent) to interact with other players. Even if this interaction comes in the form of looming danger caused by wandering around in the wild. Some of my fondest memories come from my early days playing as a newbie in a mmorpg where pking was allowed. The constant danger of attack in the wild actually added to my experience doing mundane things like chopping wood and mining.  Ok ok, this is getting to be a long thread and I hate long threads, so here\'s my big spiel.
In a mmorpg, a new world is created. One of the elements I value in this world is freedom. Players should be able to be free to do as many things as possible, yet have to pay the consequences. I think players should be able to pk, yet be punished severly for abusing that right. If a player kills more than 5 players in 80 hours IGT, erase the players individuality, change his name to \"a briggand\" or have that player evolve into a monster. Make the pks start losing stats, to take them down to a certain level of mediocrity or have them match the stats of the monster they\'re evolving into. Make them not able to attack anyone under a certain number of skill points. Pking is a pain to rpers because the pks are exploiting everything in their power to get powerful and then they challenge people who are playing the game not for power but to live a different life. I think there is a balance to be had between rping and pking, and it doesnt involve arena combat.

[Kiern]

Hey Carba......guess what

you just wasted time

why?




NO ONE CARES  

[Cabra]

um... whats wrong with wasting time? Isnt that what gaming is all about anyways?
Anyways, I (even if I am the only one) do care about whether I can pk or not.

[Kiern]

my point is, your wasting our time, not yours... i don\'t care about your time, and i like to argue with people so...

the devs won\'t change their mind because you post this, they\'ve already said that too many times to count, now come up with some original ideas that don\'\'t have to do with pking, THAT would help out.

[Cabra]

Sorry, from all the posts I\'ve looked at so far(only back to page 3 or so) I haven\'t really seen any places where devs have said that blatently that pking is already decided. I might be wrong though, I\'ve been reading up on alot of other upcoming mmorpgs.

btw, I still think the arena idea blows... heh

[Kiern]

There will be open guild wars...not just arenas...you might want to read a bit more, because it is all there

[Kinoss]

some of Carba\'s ideas are off but i also want pking. But im not going into great detail on why because i know i would be flamed for it, even though kiern is my friend.

[Cabra]

Guildwar?? That is not what I consider pking. PKing is being able to kill (almost) anyone without consent. Guildwar is consentual pvp involving groups instead of individuals. That does not have anything to do with what I am talking about. Arena pvping again is consentual, which in my (highly valued) opinion, sucks. I still think the best fix would be to find some way to implement the feature yet still keep the balance. The devs are (hopefully) not building a Utopia with complete safety from all danger.

[acraig]

\"PKing is being able to kill (almost) anyone without consent.\"

Hmm, I think that may lead to many griefers.   Not all players play these games to kill each other.  I\'m sure that there is a large segment that would just like to escape into another world for a while.  For example a blacksmith.  Their entire game deals with gathering materials, making items, selling/trading them.  And that is what they enjoy doing.  If somebody comes along and just kills him for no reason how does that make it a better game for him?

We want players to be able to explore different areas of the game, we want them to feel safe in doing that.   Would you consider playing as a baker if you thought that at any moment somebody could come up and stick a knife into you?   By having such an open system everybody would be forced into the melee combat roles.

In this case punishing players is hard because they don\'t have to pay for an account.  So they can create one account and get him high level.  They can then twink a low level character and just start random killing.  How do we deal with that?  

Hopefully we can move away from the central theme of PvP combat and move towards a more co-operative system where players work together more.  

This is not to say that there will be zero PvP but I can think I can safely say it will be a regulated system.

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Andrew

[Ravenmaster]

I think the best pvp would be like in real life. You can kill someone whenever you feel like it, but their are huge consequences which don\'t involve transforming into a monster.  For example, killing someone in town will automatically make you \"wanted\" for a certain ammount of time. When you are \"wanted\" NPCs will not deal with you and guard NPCs (if there are any) will try to arrest you.  Also, other players can kill you without consequences if you have a high enough wanted level.  People who are currently wanted can be posted somewhere in Hydlaa and people can hunt them for fun.  If you kill people in the wild, and no one is around to see it, you may get away with it, but after you kill a lot of people, you get wanted (unless you have a duel where both players agree)

[Kinoss]

I agree with Ravenmaster\'s ideas. I\'m going to add some of mine too. There should be PvP everywhere! BUT! a person that is going to be fought must be asked first before the fighting begins. This way there is less chaos and new players can defend themselves with a simple \"No\". Although there should also be the option for any player to choose whether or not he has to be asked before a fight. This causes action and adventure with more Role-Play fun for those who like that kind of thing. This is a good balance and gives people of all kinds a free choice of how they wish to fight, with knowing acceptance or life under the ever watchful eye of the stealth assassin! OOO sounds exciting!

[Ravenmaster]

Perhaps after a certain period of time you would lose your \"newbie shield\" in hopes that you could defend yourself.  I mean, no one (disclaimer: most people wouldn\'t) would turn off the ask-before-battle option.

[Kinoss]

I think that only certain classes would keep their \"newbie sheild\". Because like acraig said not everyone is going to focus even a little bit on battle. So classses like weapon smith and such would keep a newbie sheild, but they would still have the option to turn it off because maybe they are somewhat good at fighting and enjoy the thrill of a sudden attack. Yes, the \"newbie sheild\" should disappear for more foul classes after a while. There also shouldn\'t be a \"newbie sheild\" at all for those who are killing, that would be just rediculous. It should be once the attackee attacks a non-noob sheild character his \"newbie sheild\" is gone forever.

[acraig]

Hmm, I think you guys maybe concentrating too much on one single element of the game.  PvP is just one aspect ( among very many ) that people seem the most willing to argue for.   If you really want PvP that bad then there are many games that offer just that.

I think our goal is to have combat as just another facet of the game ( and not the main one! ).  

I guess the only thing we can do is read and acknowledge all the ideas from the community.  But I also ask the community to trust us as well to develop a system that is fun for all players, even those that are not combat orientated.



---------
Andrew

[Kinoss]

For a game to become good, one must focus on even the smallest things. Playing other games just to get PvP is lame. Why? because no one says \"hey joe! Im gonna fight you right now!\"
\"You cant fight me here Jake!\"
\"Well then lets go play another game so we can!\"

Sure Jake and Joe could go to an arena, but they want to fight then, there, and now!

... enough rambling for me tonight. I\'m not going to be a PvP type person. But if I have to settle a score with someone I dont want to have to go to an arena to do it. I also know that there are those people who want to be bounty hunters, assassins, and those that want to be known in a way that reminds them of their favorite character (like Boba Fett, a lot of Clint Eastwood characters, and the many infamous bad guys). I\'m not asking the Dev team to rotate around this subject. I\'m only asking them to add it as a quick feature or option to those who enjoy it. I guess I wasnt done rambling !