More on Pking

[acraig]

I don\'t think we discount all of those ideas of duels, assassins, bounty hunters, etc.  But I feel safe in saying that it will not be an open system as some have said they would like to see.  

Sure people like to PvP and we will try to allow for some of that but it will be controlled in some manner.  Maybe particular streets would be more dangerous etc.  We are all trying to work out the details here so we can satisfy all areas.  

All I can say is give us a chance to come up with a definite system first.

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Andrew

[hook]

kinoss\' idea sounds good ...a \"newbie shield\" and a \"ask-to-duell\" option are both nice ...but i would take it even further.

newbie-shield could also be an option the newbie could turn off if he wanted to be \"hard-core\" :p

about the ask-to-duell option ...i think it\'s a great idea ...i would even propose areas which would be marked as \"dangerous\" in which the ask-for-battle would be overrun. i think such areas should be some dark alleys in the city and in the country some parts of woods and paths - you know the tipical rogue areas


both are options that i would dearly like to see in the next release, since i got pretty much enough of those assholes that kill you as soon as they see you, just to gain exp. and steal all your thinks ...oh, and those that _after_ that try to screw you are the worst!!! ...and those call themselves \"l33t\" ...yeah ...my ass

...khmm ...sorry, got a bit carried away :]

Edited for language.

[Mehallie]

Just a few thoughts:

The argument for PK because it\'s more like \"real life\" seems really odd to me.  It\'s a game - any resemblance to real life would no longer make it a medieval roleplay game.  If we wanted to make this game \"real life\", it would be possible to rape the females, murder innocent people, hate crimes and racism would be rife, and poverty would abound.

I play games for an escape, not for realism.

I know there are those who want to \"settle a score\" because another player annoyed them and therefore PKing seems a great option.  But the net often brings out the worst in people because they know you can\'t reach through the screen and throttle them.  Personally, what I\'d rather have implemented is the all powerful IGNORE feature:  because in all reality nothing irritates an annoying ganking script-kiddie more than having no-one pay attention to them.  Usually works a lot better than duelling - and besides, at 31 I\'ve quite gone beyond the need to want to beat someone up because they annoy me.

If the game doesn\'t have something in it that you would like to see, why not play another game?  Or, in this case, why not code it yourself?  While Planeshift does seem like a rather interesting game to play, I doubt it will have enough tradeskilling for me, and as a result I already know that I\'ll be playing another game as well.  I won\'t be jumping up and down saying that this game isn\'t \"real\" enough because it won\'t let me bake bread.

Sorry if I\'m not very coherent or if I seem insulting, it\'s early and I haven\'t had my cuppa, but good grief I wish that, just for one game, just ONE, PvP would never happen and the debate would never come up.

[Cabra]

In all of my experiences in mmorpgland, I have never really professionally pked before and if I have pked or been pked it has been well outside of town range, where you\'d expect it.  I don\'t feel that if you implement that kind of system, the workers will complain too much, because for the most part, they are inside a protected range. As for mining or chopping wood or whatever, the better resources should come with greater risks. I dont think non-consentual pking should be allowed in town, or if it is it should be immediatly inforced by insta-death from teleporting guards or lightning from heaven or something else.. All I\'m saying is that it would be nice to be able to murder all those annoying little trash talkers. I feel that noob shields are a good idea, but if the only people really at danger are the ones outside of town, how does it really effect the gatherers? Again, I\'d like to stress that I think it should be HIGHLY punished, so you wouldnt be able to professionally pk, but killing an occasional trash talker would be nice.

[acraig]

Originally posted by Mehallie

If the game doesn\'t have something in it that you would like to see, why not play another game?  Or, in this case, why not code it yourself?  While Planeshift does seem like a rather interesting game to play, I doubt it will have enough tradeskilling for me, and as a result I already know that I\'ll be playing another game as well.  I won\'t be jumping up and down saying that this game isn\'t \"real\" enough because it won\'t let me bake bread.

Mehallie, you may be suprised I think .   The ongoing  discussions about tradeskills and progression are producing very nice results.  I think that we will have a very extensive system that will result in a very large number of areas you can go into.  Of course this is still very early but I think that we are heading in a good direction with it.

---------------
Andrew

[paxx]

I am sorry, but PK will not be what many people want. To put it Bluntly, Grief or things that Frustrate players to no end will not be in this game. However there will be things that make player on player combat an attractive thing to get into.

But Standard PVP will not be in the game. Guild on guild combat will be rewarded, and other such things?but even this will only be able in certain areas?possibly 50% or more of the land of the game. There will also be many types of guilds, so if you want to be in a guild that combats other players on a regular basis?that is your choice. But this will not be the same for all players, it is a choice that you will make by becoming part of that guild.

I am not saying that just by being in that guild you can PK or others can PK you, but your guild and others can find it profitable, to fight in guild wars.

By profitable I mean beneficial not monetarily?though monetarily may be one possible benefit.    

[Cabra]

Mehallie the reason you\'re playing this game is because it does create another universe, a universe similar to our own. The whole concept of giving up on reality is bull. And even though you might be a perfectly placid person interested in only one aspect of the game(trade), I like to have freedom over all that I can do in this new world of possiblities. I would like this game to mimmic or improve on real life in any way possible. Some may say that pking isnt an improvement, but I feel it is another level of interaction in this new world. Even though pking is a negative interaction, It still gives the game a certain atmosphere where you know anything can and probably will happen. It takes us away from this bleak everyday life of work and study and brings us to a world where we Can vent our frustrations, we Can be successful, we Can interact with other people. For the most part if the no non consentual pvp was enforced in town, no traders or craftsman would really be effected. I dont see how leaving one aspect of this new reality would be beneficial to the game.

[Mehallie]

Originally posted by acraig

Mehallie, you may be suprised I think .   The ongoing  discussions about tradeskills and progression are producing very nice results.  I think that we will have a very extensive system that will result in a very large number of areas you can go into.  Of course this is still very early but I think that we are heading in a good direction with it.

Ooooo, there\'s hope!  Thanks for the heads up, I\'ll keep an eye out for that.

[Mehallie]

Originally posted by paxx
I am sorry, but PK will not be what many people want. To put it Bluntly, Grief or things that Frustrate players to no end will not be in this game. However there will be things that make player on player combat an attractive thing to get into.

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Cabra]

Btw, if you eliminate professional pkers, you pretty much eliminate griefers. This can easily be done by enforcing strict punishment on pkers. Make it so that people won\'t want to commit mass genocide. But I think having the option to kill one or 2 every now and again  would be very nice.

[Cabra]

The problem with guild wars and arena combat is that you never kill the people that you want to kill. People still have free reign to mouth off whenever they feel like it, whereever they feel like it and not have to worry about paying their own consequenses.  For example, I tend to think that Mehallie would fall into this category. He may be passive as far as physical threat goes, but I have a feeling he\'ll let you have a piece of all the \"wisdom\" he\'s been collecting his prior 30 years.
Anyways non-cons pvp actually does lead to more group oriented activities. Maybe it doesnt lead to more group oriented tradesman activities, although I dont think it negatively effects them, but it does add more challenge to the game and makes people team up to overcome their new challenges. Also, like you said before, what you\'re looking for is a highly regulated pvp system.  Why not expand on that? I think the guildwar sounds good, but I dont feel that it is enough. Like I\'ve said many times, set high punishment for pkers. Maybe each person you kill lowers a skill or stat a little.

[paxx]

This will be my last comment on this subject for some time. But lets take your example of allowing 2 PKs per character per 45 real time days. I?ll set up the scenario with forum members, I do not mean to put anything in anyone?s mouth just drive the scenario home for you.

Kada?el is doing a quest and passes a group of players and hears this snippet of conversation. ?shut your F@$#%ing Pie hole you F@#@ing Bi$#, you are nothing but a looser anyways? Kada stops to investigate?but is told it is not her issue but the target of the target of the insult does a private tell saying that she just asked how to find a place and told the insulter that he was ?no big help? As Kada askes the insulter simply says I have other things to do and don?t want to get into it. Kada is also short on time because of her need to complete her quest in time. So she simply keeps a record of the people involved.

Later Kada?el mentions this engagement on her very well traveled to website, and some of the people elect to teach this guy a lesson.

So for the next 2 months, this guy is killed by over 1000 players who frequent Kada?el sight.

So Cabra the insulter, is now forced to play a new character for a while all because you did not stop and explain to Kada?el that the insulted had called you a ?frothing a%& breath? and was annoying your party for over an hour by pulling monsters to your groups location.  

Now 1000 players multiplied by 2 characters each and 2 PKs that they can do?means you could get PKed 4000 times, and some will kill you even if they might get arrested.

I know this example is extreme, but an uber guild with 100 characters in it could kill you 200 times just out of spite cause you organized a Raid on a location they where planning to go to. Still getting killed 200 times is harsh.

If we add, you can only be PKed 2 times a day?would then piss others off, so there is no happy medium here, we will not have PK except in a very structured and world enhancing way?and it is up to the player to be part of that activity or not.

[Cabra]

First thing, there is no way people have that much sway over their guildmates or even close friends. People are not going to waste their two kills on someone elses war. Second, it would be bloody impossible to find the target person without them being there. Third you would have to be very very angry annoyed frustrated and ballzy to blatently attack someone if those kills would give you punishment. Third, I think you fail to see how much people are willing to do(or not do in this case) to screw up the characters that they have been working on for the past few months. Your scenario is not only extreme, it is impossible. Maybe a few close friends might gang up, but if that is the case who cares? No grief is going to come from that. Even if you are targetted by some guild with a kazillion members all wanting to pk you multiple times, stay in town for a while.

[Cabra]

Btw, I\'m sorry if you feel that this has been implemented adequately, but just the fact that this is a hot topic means that it is a very vital and important area of the game. I think that pvp is one element that can either lead a game into blandness or greatness. If properly controlled the negative aspects of this can be limited and positive rewarded. Also I wasn\'t meaning that people are given 2 free kills. I was saying that maybe people could afford to kill 1 or 2. For instance, if a punishment for killing someone was that they lose some stats and skills... that would be a very valuable loss and people wouldnt want to pk multiple times because they\'d eventually lose their effectiveness at fighting. Anyways thats just one idea.. call it Murderers Rage for the rpers... when you start killing people, you start losing your grip on reality and start forgetting your skills because at heart you are a decent person and are now split between your murdering self and your passive normal self. Anyways just a thought..

[Mehallie]

Originally posted by Cabra
Btw, I\'m sorry if you feel that this has been implemented adequately, but just the fact that this is a hot topic means that it is a very vital and important area of the game.

No, it just means that you can\'t take \"Read my lips, this is how we\'re doing it and that\'s that!\" for an answer.

I\'ll give this thread a miss for a while myself.  Beating a dead horse gets dull.