To PK or not to PK

[Darkanan]

No the outlaw tag is a good idea. Because the person who was PKed will know that the person is an outlaw and he can either tell his friends to get him vengance or announce it on the lines. But yeah I don\'t think the outlaw tag should be announced.

Regardless I definitly think there should be a form of PKing in which if someone wrongs you, you have the option to strike back with or without their consent to fight.

Guild wars are a good idea. It will bring a good aspect of power struggles to the game and will give people a lot to work for, people like myself at least that love battle and wars which is why I personally play to them to be the strongest.

I can see their point that allowing total free range of PKs to kill anyone isn\'t a good idea becuase then bakers and crafters aren\'t safe. However, you could make two different paths. The warrior path and then have all your different classes under that (fighter, Warrior, Sorcerer) and the peaceful path and have your classes under that (baker, crafter) and code it so that only Warrior path can PK and tehy can only kill other warriors. Also if the penalties are high enough for PKing (outlaw idea, Jail, PK vengance, NPC police) then you will completely minimize the amount of PKers in the game.

[Nadius]

in my opinion pking is very fun it adds a dynamic to the game.  can anyone name anything in the game thats gives you a rush as much as pking or being pked.. knowing that you just faced off against another person is exilirating. but to limit the pking  is really futile because the players will utimatly defien it i know a game that is all vs all pk and its not against the rules to pk its just not done i do think it should have some limits but not as much as some people think. i dont agree in bringing npcs into the mix for a low level person to kill one person on a bad day and be hunted by powerfull npcs would not make the game fun.  i also think that pking should have consequences and rewards i mean you pk someone you get some thing good. ie there money or something not all there gear mind you but something. I also think that not every level should be able to attack another.  i dont wanna be level 20 and a lvl 100 comes and kills me in one hit that again doesnt seem fun i know you guys dont wanna hear this but id use EQ\'s pvp system on there team pkservers as a guide cause in my opinion they have done it the best so far

Good luck with this issue
it will either make or break the game for many of us

[Darkanan]

Well Paxx your people speak... it seems this thread leans in one direction. PK but moderated which I would agree too. Maybe you should make a new thread on PK systems but keep it at the top because the last one sorta fell to the back pages.

[Thompson]

I would have to take the side of the PKers also. There seems to be plenty of systems out there that would successfully allow for PKing to exist in this world. How can you speak of giving the game maximum reality if you don\'t include PKing. You say that it adds grief into the world. Well look around you. Grief exists in this world It is very emminent in the world we live in and a huge social factor. If this simulation is supposed to create a realistic model of the world you are depriving this world of anything realistic by makeing it all nice and dainty. Anyone in this world has the option open to attack or kill anyone but they don\'t. Yeah there are some incidents in which this happens but only a small 1% of the population even chooses to do it. If there are greivers in your game then so be it. Every game has them. You don\'t have to read all of their gay complaints when they are like so and so killed me. Put it into a law that PKing is allowed however mass PKing or Low level PKing will be harshly punished. This way people understand that they could be killed.

Darkanan you have the best system I have seen so far. I love the idea of two different paths a good and a fighting path at the beginning and then people choose their abilities. That is one of the most unique Ideas I have ever seen to date coupled with a mixture of your system and EQ\'s system. It\'s Obvious that the gamers want this in the game. As i remember this is a game for us to enjoy what good is a game with no gamers. At this time many new MMORPGS are rising up and some of them are pretty similar to the ideas put forth in this game and they will also have PKing I have been paying some of them close attention in my decision to see which I shall play. The idea of a realistic world with advanced social system is not new. Pking will make or break this game for me not only because its lack will make the game much less realistic but it will also remove a certain rush, and point to a game such as this.

There are few that will pick up a game like this and decide well all I want to do is make potions and be an alchemist or all I want to do is bake bread. Thats boring. Power, Fame, and Glory, and realism are reasons why people will play this game.

The PK system is out there you just have to put it together or actually listen to us.

[Xadoo]

This is my first MMORPG, but i understand there really wont be so much fun without PK. The game is set to Medieval Roleplaying, and why have a weapon, wlak around in town without to be able to kill someone?

Of course, there will be punishment. But let it work as in Morrowind, or better. In Morrowind you can kill someone, but if he/she can get to a guard before he is dead the guard knows who done it. After that it doesnt matter if the guy gets killed or not, you will be chased by guards in every city. When they finally catch you, you can choose:

Pay fee(pay a certain number of gold coins to get free. For killing its about 200 coins)

Go to Jail(you go to jail and it has gone some time before you get out)

Or:

Resist the arrest(fight the guard, but this is not smart, because the guards is not only lethal, they are heavy armed too)


If you steal the penalty will be much lower than this, but all stolen things will be taken.

[tygerwilde]

pay a certain number of gold coins to get free. For killing its about 200 coins


hmm, does that seem to be heavy enough to control griefers to you? I don\'t...


if you want to control griefers, you have to make the penalty so severe that they would never want to do it again. that\'s why I wrote that about perma death, another solution is getting fined everything their character posesses

[Feynt]

Well... I have never played Morrowind, so I have no idea if 200 coins is strict or not, but it does not sound like a tough penalty.

Losing possessions sounds firmer to me, i.e., losing the tools of PKing or unique items, having the illicitly-gained spoils seized certainly makes sense in an in-game social context, once perpetrator is caught.

You could set the penalty as an increasing fraction of your goods/coins (i.e., 25% for first offense, 40% for second ... 100% after a few).

Of course, you need to prevent the \'workaround\' of a criminal handing off his/her goodies to a complicit guild-mate or chum who returns them after the penalty is enacted...

... so perhaps a Guild should have another penalty enacted upon it when a member breaks the law and is caught, e.g., Guild loses cash/loses stored goods/has a trade tariff imposed until a penalty is paid off, e.g., all goods cost x% more for ALL Guild members... this makes it worthwhile for the Guild to support/manage the good behaviour of its members.

[Xordan]

hehe, I had 2 pay 25000 gold on morrowind once.
This is really simple to sort out, just have areas where pk\'ing is enabled or disabled. Lets say if u get attacked inside an area where it\'s disabled then you dont suffer damage. But once you leave that area people are allowed to attack you and you do get hurt. People who dont want to fight dont have to leave pk\'ing disabled areas.

[lostprophet]

I like that, what about a police force? Every time someone PKs, they are added to the wanted list. If they show their face in town, they are captured by the police and have their possessions seized (or are killed if they resist). That way, people could PK but would have to face the consequences of having to live eating bark for the rest of their lives. Also, shops wouldn\'t serve them.

[Xordan]

Like a reputation system? If u\'r rep droped 2 a certain point prices would rise for you, and if u are really evil u get hunted by guards. hmm, yup. Nobody can really complain about that.

[magicback]

I\'ll vote for PK also.

Firstly, it is more realistic.  Secondly, dev who resort to code-base solutions to a social problem is taking the quick way out.  If PK is not initially implement, it should be implement at some stage.

You guys have offered so interesting thought and in-game solutions.  Give then design so far, I think the dev will find a in-game solution.

So, let me offer a middle of the road solution that immediately address code-base solutions with in-game explainations.

***In essence, my concept is to use glyphs and rituals to explain why certain code-based solutions work***

On PKing
1.  PK is conceptually allowed
2.  There are certain areas with powerful glyphs that prevent physical attacks.  For example, the healer\'s guild.
3.  There are other areas with other powerful glyphs that give special protection to players.  For example, the arena have a glyph that prevent anyone\'s hit points going below 1 and also prevent unconsciousness.

Here are some implementations to address theft.
1.  Possessions can be stolen by a thief
2.  However, you can have special items attuned to you (at a price by someone) such that the item can not be removed (permanently in your inventory).  If a theft try to steal it, the owner will be immediately alerted.

Here are some implementations to address deaths.
1.  You can be killed by anyone
2.  However, you can have a contingency ritual cast on you (per D&D) that teleports you back to a safe area before reaching 0 hit points.

*  Hope you get the picture about using the glyphs to explain certain in-game code-based behaviours.

[magicback]

OK,

Just read the clarification between PK and PvP by Paxx.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4022&boardid=21&styleid=3

I\'m more respectful of the rational behind the decision.  
I\'ll vote down PK and grief, but vote for roleplaying PvP.

The devs have plot out the setting that indicates that both Talad and Laanx values the life of each worshipper.  Given this context, it appears the gods are fighting each other for worshippers.   Therefore, they would have place great spells to protect their worshipers and save the less fortunate ones that were passed as unworthly worshippers by another god.

Here\'s an in-game concept:

Talad and Laanx both love their worshippers and do not wish them to leave the wonderful world they have created.

Talad\'s realm is strongly protected from death.  Only certain powerful beings have learned the ability to circumvent Talad\'s protection.  However, the taking of life against Talad\'s will is heavily paid with a portion of the aggressor\'s life and a blood debt to Talad.  Killing in Talad\'s realm as a solution to a worshipper\'s problem is not look favorably in Talad\'s eye.

Laanx also protect his realm from death.  However, his ways are mysterious.  Sometimes he allows the final death blow, sometimes he does not.  Sometimes he teleports victims to his temple, sometimes he imprisions the victims in an invulnerable paralysis.  Adventurers who ventured in to the Stone Labyrinths brings a Priest of Laanx for good measure or bring a blessed charm for good luck.


What do you think?

I think in-game explanations are more compelling than out-of-game decisions.

[A?riotu]

Following on from the ideas about bounty hunters and a police force, you could combine the two ideas.

If someone comits a felony -  not necessarily murder, it could be theft, inuslting behaviour etc. too - their name could go onto the wanted list which other people have invisioned.

People could then either take up bounty hunting as a profession, or just simply a way as making quick money.

Bounty hunters would then attempt to track down the criminal; even perhaps if the criminal escapes capture for a certain amount of (logged in) time they get taken off the wanted list. But if the criminal gets cornered then the choice of options is determined by the alignment of the bounty hunter. For example a good bounty hunter would only accept the criminal going to jail, and an evil one would either be allowed to kill on the spot or take a bribe to say that they killed him/her.

However, for all alignments the criminal could get the option of attacking his/her bounty hunter instead. For example a lv10 wanted character would not attack a lv30 bounty hunter, but a lv40 one would. This would mean bounty hunters would go after criminals that are about the same level. With the disadvantage of a lower award for bringing in or killing lower leveled characters.

However I also like the zoned ideas, but I\'d prefer it if there was a reason for that area being safe, like magicback suggested.

[lostprophet]

I like your idea, but I don\'t think you should be able to pretend to kill someone. The game should reward you in some places for doing the right thing and sometimes for doing wrong, like taking a fugitive in alive would warrant a larger reward, but also in some places you could lie to get what you want e.g. in neverwinter nights you can con people by pretending to be a tax collector, which gives you evil points.

[Feynt]

A relevant article has been posted to LawMeme, of all places: http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1239
If you have been following this thread here, you might be interested; the author tackles underlying issues that any PvP \'solution\' must address.