Feedback wanted: Quest system - Your favourite Challenge

[drJack]

Hello all. I'm a prospect member of the Setting team, and I'd really like to have your feedback.

Planeshift is full of quests. Every quest (or almost everyone of them) has one or more challenges inside.
I'd like to know the challenge you like the most: the ones that you want more.
And I'd like also your feed-back about the other types of challenge you like less. So, someone could improve them.

Here we are. A list of the challenges I found:
Travel challenge: where a player need to go to another NPC and talk him (or give him something).
Hunt challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on a monster.
Research challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on the ground or to buy it on a merchant.
Riddle challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a riddle.
Setting challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a setting/history related question.

I'd like to know your opinion about these types of quest, especially your favourite (and, if you have time, also: why you like it), and, for the one who want to give more:
- Do you think there's something we can do to improve the challenges in the quests?
- If you think there's any other kind of challenge, tell me, and I'll add them.
- If you want, I'd like also to know what are your favourite quests (until now).

I'll be grateful for every information, suggestion, or feedback.

Your opinion matters.

[Sarva]

Personally I'd like to see more quests that encourage more player interaction. For example the quest requires the player to get something that only a player character can provide. If the player in question doesn't have the still to provide the needed item then they need to seek out and meet another player character who can craft the item in question. This would help support player crafting and also encourage more players to meet and work with other players. Group quests might be nice where two or more characters need to work together to complete the quest. Now sure if group quests would be possible though.

[RlyDontKnow]

Travel challenge: where a player need to go to another NPC and talk him (or give him something).

honestly: just boring and annoying most of the time

Hunt challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on a monster.

pretty much the same as the travelling ones

imo those 2 kinds are the plain old all-day quests you can find in any hack'n'slay game you want - not really what I personally enjoy

Research challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on the ground or to buy it on a merchant.

those are the fun ones for me after all they could be extended quite a bit, though. I only recall very few of those.

Riddle challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a riddle.

those really depend on the quest. sometimes they're pretty annoying because you know your answer is right, but you just can't find the right trigger.
also it sometimes happens that a supposedly matching answer isn't accepted because the author simply didn't think of that possibility, so those are probably the hardest ones to write
on the other hand there were really disappointing ones for me as they were just too easy - especially with the new quest systems (e.g. a riddle that used to be tricky if you didn't know it already now got 2 answer possibilities of which one just doesn't make sense - think it's fixed already, though).

Setting challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a setting/history related question.

those are fine for me as you learn a bit about the settings, etc. even though they can be tricky to find out

the kind of quests I enjoyed the most are the ones that are somewhat out-the-line, e.g. the one in which you serve that little clacker *winks*
then as to what I'm personally missing: quests aren't depending enough on each other imho. most are just of the first 2 types you named which makes it rather boring after all.
I'd really like to see more quests that don't actually require that you have completed another one, but instead require some kind of knowledge you achieved during other quests.
e.g. in one quest you have to know a certain phrase in a certain accent (I hope you still have to know it) which you learned in another research quest. or in several quests you need items achieved during earlier ones, etc.

[Illysia]

Please go light on the riddles. I always liked quests that give you info about settings, particularly the environment. Like what unimplemented cities and land features are around. And more quest options would be nice like: you can run this package across all of creation back to the person yourself and end the quest at some time in the future, or you can pay me and finish it now. Or, I need this item, but this other item will also work.

[Falcon Avian]

I prefer the killing ones 

[Nivm]

Do I get an opinion on the matter?

[Zakrei]

Personally I like the quests with some story behind them. Like for example, the quest where Lucky (the butcher ?) gets in trouble with the law ( i hope I did rememeber the name, I did this quest looooong time ago). It's nice, because a story develops with time, you don't have to run too much, except when you want to earn extra credit, which is a nice feature too. In this quest, you get small hints, who to talk to. I think, this is also a nice feature. It may often be enough to give smaller hints like  "the last time I saw him, he wanted to get his knife sharpened", instead "he went to Harnquist to get his knifes sharpened". Players should think a bit, who would be able to do such things or ask around IC, if somebody knows who would sharpen knifes, or sell this or that, or has experience in mixing healing potions or whatever.

 Just a sidenote, I think with the new npc-communication system, some quests get a bit too easy for my taste, because you get a pre-selection of people, you can talk to (just rightclick and see if he or she has a answer), maybe the good old 'about' would be enough to trigger some npc-answer-and-question chain, which then can be done in the new system. And yes, I know, it sometimes was a drag in the old times to find the right keyword (i remember, yelling at some poor NPC, because he refused to pay me, because he didn't understand me), but if you keep it simple, like "about lucky" and then switch to the new system, things would work

[weltall]

i'd prefer a double way to access than having a forced idea of what people should use. so if you want to quest by typing you can go with it, if you prefer menu you can go with that

[Roled]

Thanks for asking drJAck!

My favorites so far are:

Believe it or not the Guard at the BD that has a huge problem with taxes and there are two distinct ways of approaching the solution. First , it was a compelling story and the npc had a compelling need. And a big secret. It was well written to evoke compassion for the npc and his situation. Then you find there's not just one solution. Cool! I did the more involved way the first time then the easier {in time} way after the wipe. Maybe it was the freshness but I liked the more involved way. it really felt like my character had to really work on helping him, it wasn't easy, it took a lot of time, it had a lot of parts, I had to ask several other players to help with the parts I couldn't do myself {like the killling of mobs etc} that my character wasn't skilled enough to do. When I finally finished it, I felt like I had accomplished something.

Particularly liked the series of Mirra quests- those were really varied and felt like she had a real story that she was following... I wish the rewards might be a sample of each dish....

The story ones- like Frilaa's husband and then you find other ... angles to her story. Or the haos pollen one, and the Jirosh's family ones. Those are good. And the mysteries like Lori and Zak... and the riddles 'cause they are hard sometimes!

The traveling ones are good for learning the maps and the npcs but daunting when you're new.

Don't like the killing slashing ones. Starting out having to kill rats was not where I thought my character was going but there seemed no other way to train weapons. Wouldn't it be cool if in the arena there was a room with straw dummies for the very very early practicing? I still wish there were more ways to progress without killing...

Really like the ones with humor like Areaya's (sorry I can't remember any of the spellings of these names it seems) big adventure.

The best the very best ones for me are the ones where the npcs have involving stories that force your character into some kind of moral choice... it has been hard to 'walk away' from some probable reward because my character just wouldn't do that.  The stakes are high with those- like the one that gets you into the winch the legal way. You know,, when you make that choice there's no way you will ever get some of the answers to some of the settings questions IC. So you have to be wiling to have part of the game not available to that character, ever.

Thanks for the quests. That's what has kept me playing, that and the rps.
Roled Rolak

[drJack]

Personally I'd like to see more quests that encourage more player interaction. For example the quest requires the player to get something that only a player character can provide.

Yup, they are the social challenge. I avoided to insert them on the list, because I think that the choice become obvious with this .  We're implementing them.

the kind of quests I enjoyed the most are the ones that are somewhat out-the-line, e.g. the one in which you serve that little clacker *winks*
then as to what I'm personally missing: quests aren't depending enough on each other imho. most are just of the first 2 types you named which makes it rather boring after all.
I'd really like to see more quests that don't actually require that you have completed another one, but instead require some kind of knowledge you achieved during other quests.

That's a very interesting point, I'll work on it immediatly. And thanks also for the deep answer .

And more quest options would be nice like: you can run this package across all of creation back to the person yourself and end the quest at some time in the future, or you can pay me and finish it now.

Ehehe. I agree with you, giving player choice is always a good thing, but branching too deep is difficult. About this, the first rule, for me, is: "If you have to create a choice in a storyline, create two (or more) awesome stories. If one is awesome, and the other is only good, that's an error."

I prefer the killing ones 

Yeah. Killing time :p.

Do I get an opinion on the matter?

Sure. Get it, it matters  .

Personally I like the quests with some story behind them.

Uhm. If you have time I'd like to know more about this. I feel there's a deep message on this. Every quest has a story, so I think you want to say "some kind" of story. I understand that you prefer "hints" over than "obvious direction". And maybe you want to say also something else.

you don't have to run too much, except when you want to earn extra credit

Wow, that's tied with the optional branching in the quest. A good point. And easy to implement.

@ weltall and Zakrei:
It seems to me that you both would like to change (or add an option) to the menus of the quest. It's a more general topic, and the GUI is pretty away from my competence, for now :p. But thanks, I'll try to think on how to handle this from the inside of the quest.

Thanks for all! 

[weltall]

you just need to add some variant to the trigger
P: need pants. Give me quest. ...
P: allola sent me. need pants. ...
and so on can do a big list of these, the first is used for the menu now the rest can be used by players manually, before it worked this way but due to a bug we had to remove all the variants, now the bug is fixed and variants can be placed back, although it would never be first priority as before, as now we have menu.

[drJack]

Thanks for asking drJAck!

Thanks to you for the answers, this topic is full of thankigs  .
I was busy with reply to the others when you posted, but here I'm.

Deepness of the story, compelling needs, humor and secrets  are very important elements for me.They're more story elements than quest challenges, but don't worry, I'll be delighted to take care of them .
And the options you talked about (that are parts of quest challenges) are one of the principal ways to play the role of your character.

Particularly liked the series of Mirra quests- those were really varied and felt like she had a real story that she was following... I wish the rewards might be a sample of each dish....

Mirra's quests give you a nice way to manipulate the ambient. A nice thought. It could be used more.

The traveling ones are good for learning the maps and the npcs but daunting when you're new.

That's a point for the travelling ones. At least until you became more experienced.

Don't like the killing slashing ones. Starting out having to kill rats was not where I thought my character was going but there seemed no other way to train weapons. Wouldn't it be cool if in the arena there was a room with straw dummies for the very very early practicing? I still wish there were more ways to progress without killing...

That's a more rules issue. I'll try to find a solution, but I'm not sure I can do something. interesting point although.

The best the very best ones for me are the ones where the npcs have involving stories that force your character into some kind of moral choice...

Ehhh, moral choices. I love them . I'll try to make them deeper, we'll see.

@ weltall:
Thanks for the explaination.

[Zakrei]

Personally I like the quests with some story behind them.

Uhm. If you have time I'd like to know more about this. I feel there's a deep message on this. Every quest has a story, so I think you want to say "some kind" of story. I understand that you prefer "hints" over than "obvious direction". And maybe you want to say also something else.

Sorry, I wasn't really clear on this thought. What I liked about this quest, was the twists and the little things. Some quests are like "I need this or that, please fetch it", and some are like the ones with Lucky, you start by looking for a missing husband and end up with solving a murder mystery. And the character of Lucky sounds interesting, it would be fun to have him visit Kada Els for a drink or two (or spill them over some guests  ) or to have Allelia gossiping a bit about him. During the quest, the story around Lucky develops, you hear some things about him, and the plot is fun. Another example are some quests with Zak, where you get to know a bit more about his background.

P.S: Many thanks to all the people who come up with the ideas for quests and who implement them 

[verden]

I'll just say that with the menu system, I feel like the quest system in PS not only can now come of age, but more importantly that it is fun. I was able to do a few quests the other night and immerse in the game. It was pleasant. I support all quest ideas proposed in this thread. Nice work!

[Koios]

All the challenges are good imo, but you have to look at it from different perspectives. If you are new to PS, the hunt and travel is nice and easy (for the most part) and lets you get to know places and more of the backstory.

After you've been around for a while, the travelling and hunting might be getting a bit monotonic. So then the researching and settings might be more to your liking. I've always loved a good riddle, but not everyone does and thinks it's annoying and timeconsuming. You can't please all no matter how hard you try. I also like the social challenges as mentioned earlier, gives you a chance to get to know people. Of course, that can also be a part of the other challenges as well. Like if you ask for directions etc.

For the improvement of challenges I'll leave that to you, I can't really think of anything right now that would make it better than it is. We have, imo, a good quest system. We even did before the Talk window was implemented, the NPC was sometimes just a bit narrow-minded in terms of triggers. An improvement on some quests would be the reward, especially in terms of PP.  I don't think quests give nearly enough compared to what monsters give, given the time spent on some of the more challenging quests.

And finally, some of my favorite quests:
The Coming Eclipse - Because it is interlinked with other quests.
Lorytia Starhammer and the Clan Reunion - Yes, it is very long in sense of travelling, but the story is quite amusing.
Mirra Houphen's Road to Mastercook series - Because they have a nice challenge curve as you go along.

I would also like to add one that I didn't like at all:
Deadly Claws for Kelicha - The idea behind the quest is fine, the way it is played out is not. I won't give out spoilers, but anyone who has done this quest would most likely kill Kelicha either before they've finished the quest, or when they get the reward.