PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Granted or negated Wishes => Topic started by: Zhaxor on October 25, 2007, 09:33:38 am
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I looked around but couldn't see if this has been mentioned as a wish, but, carrying weapons at all times?
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Scenario:
Zaxor walks into the shop waving two double bladed battle axes around and says "give me a philter of intelligence".
Shop owner dives behind the counter gibbering in fright and screaming "HELP, I'M BEING ROBBED!"
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Now that's what should happen, but what actually happens is that the shop owner blithely ignores the axes and chats away in a friendly manner.
I personally try to be consistant to the setting, if I am in the wild I carry my axes out, in town I put them away, after all people in the tavern swinging axes and swords and all sorts of weapons would surely attract the guard. Now I am not saying that if someone does walk around with drawn weapons they should be set upon by the guard, a much simpler wasy of doing it would be to have the NPC's refuse interaction if the player has a weapon equiped.
A simple, "now friend put the weapons away while in my shop or I will call the guard," type blanket response would suffice
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In general yeas, people should not trade with someone with weapons in his/her hands.
Sounds easy to script, but:
how will you distinguish people who carry their weapons just for the sake of carrying <-(weird) or they intends attacking someone from people who are just trying a weapon to see if it works good for them. Yeah, in the middle of trading they equip weapon. Or maybe they are repairing it and someone want to trade?
In short, if you have weapon equiped, it doesn't mean you want to kill or threaten doing so.
It's just never as easy as it looks. Though a complex of features enforcing different behaviours are needed, i don't think they came into the game fast. behaviour which is normal for real world, isn't normal for a game anymore, because of lack of different enforcements. All you can do, is RP well, although it doesnt always work.
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Game vs real life:
Weapons vs Cell phones.
A weapon in the hand of a make believe character on the screen of a computer isnt really a big deal. Consider it like a cell phone. There are always those who don't use them sensibly according to other peoples standards.
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You have to consider it from an IC point of view so take your post and swap cell phones with guns and you have the general idea.
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how about this, you need both hands 'free' to trade at all... since you will need to in essence grab another item with your hands.
Though I would like to see a animation one day where whatever weapons you have equipped could be sheathed away, onto your back.
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how about this, you need both hands 'free' to trade at all... since you will need to in essence grab another item with your hands.
No, read above.
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But there is a physical limitation on being able to trade and carry weapons is what he is saying. You can't repair a weapon and take the item you are purchasing at the same time can you?
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yes you can.
You approach the shop salesman and ask, can i have this apple? Do you need your hands free in this moment? No.
You need them when you pay or take the apple.
If not this you basically ask for something like this: Open trade window to see what is there, Close trade window, open inventory to se if you can carry it, close it. Open trade to see which of these swords exactly you are interested, close trade as you need to open inventory, equip a sword you got a hour ago, to see how it feels, close inventory. Open trade, sell the weapon and buy another.
Add to this technicall issues, like lagging cursor and you faster go to guns shop and shot yourself in the head.
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Or.. open window, buy weapon?
The moment that you open the trade window is pretty much you initiating the question 'Can I have X.' That means that when you click to confirm you should have a single free hand at least, maybe two depending on the item.
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You can't buy weapon when you don't know if you want it.
You open trade when you want to look what's in shop.
but yeah, to hell with ergonomy.
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...That means that when you click to confirm you should have a single free hand at least, maybe two depending on the item.
Carry on and look. Its still weird to run into a shop with weapons drawn and say that you'd like to see their wares. How about people just don't run around with weapons? In most muds if you don't have free hands items drop to the floor. Seems to me to make sense.
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...That means that when you click to confirm you should have a single free hand at least, maybe two depending on the item.
so, two hands, because you have to analyze always the worst situation.
Its still weird to run into a shop with weapons drawn and say that you'd like to see their wares. How about people just don't run around with weapons?
Yeah, i gues everyone in this thread thinks like that, but there is no word about how to accomplis it in relation to what i said.
In most muds if you don't have free hands items drop to the floor. Seems to me to make sense.
With one hand, you hold your kid with ADHD, with the other you try to get off the money to pay, finally you pay, the ice-cream guy gives you the change, you take it into one hand and then he drops the ice cream on the floor, along with the MUD rules making sense ;P Especially that its the ice-cream guy floor he will have to clean and thats why he drops ice cream there ;P
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so, two hands, because you have to analyze always the worst situation.
I don't get what you mean.
Yeah, i guess everyone in this thread thinks like that, but there is no word about how to accomplis it in relation to what i said.
Unless, now I know this is really out there but, unless people actually realise how silly it is.
With one hand, you hold your kid with ADHD, with the other you try to get off the money to pay, finally you pay, the ice-cream guy gives you the change, you take it into one hand and then he drops the ice cream on the floor, along with the MUD rules making sense ;P Especially that its the ice-cream guy floor he will have to clean and thats why he drops ice cream there ;P
Usually a product is received before any monetary transaction. You take ice cream and give it to child. You pay and take change.
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So, be it anything, something you have to pay attention, a ringing cellphone, you have to check, the ice cream must land on the floor and pring that situation inside a game, i'm sure someone grab it the moment it is dropped^^
btw, we now don't drop things when suddently we can't wear all what we have, exactly because of that, it was silly, but yeah, call what i say silly and ignore fdifferent points of viev.
They could be valid, but it doesnt matter, you want people to walk with hidden weapons and the means doesnt matter.
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I think you misunderstood. I meant that its silly to run around with weapons all the time, not that everything you say is silly. I just find it really strange that people can have their hands ful yet have things magically appear and disappear from their pockets.
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This is all kind of pointless and been repeated many times. You cannot sheath your weapons, there are no sheaths. You cannot put your weapons in a backpack there are no backpacks. you can put them in a bag and swallow them or just swallow them, in other words put them in your inventory. Since you are pretending a bunch of stuff that doesn't exist anyway you can pretend that they are not really in your hands but rather safely sheathed just the way people like it. If this were a real wish and not just a complaint in disguise you would be asking for a real backpack, real sheaths a belt to hang the sheaths on and a convenient way to do so. As far as I am concerned the inventory is OOC, there should be a slot on your figure where you can equip a backpack, another slot at your waist where you could equip a belt from which to hang things on and your only inventory slots would come from the things you put in such slots on your character. Of course that would not be too convenient, now would it.
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I'd like that.
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Dittonezz.
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Seriously. The original wish is just a good idea.
I really don't understand why you people are making such a problem out of it.
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Because we must!
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This is all kind of pointless and been repeated many times. You cannot sheath your weapons,
This was never about the action of cheating weapons, why bring it up?
You cannot put your weapons in a backpack there are no backpacks.
nor about putting them in backpacks.
you can pretend that they are not really in your hands but rather safely sheathed just the way people like it.
But they aren't, it's really simple to unequip a weapon, not a big issue that you are making it out to be.
If this were a real wish and not just a complaint in disguise you would be asking for a real backpack, real sheaths a belt to hang the sheaths on and a convenient way to do so.
So you are defining the context of my post? My post had nothing to do with backpacks, sheaths or anything of the sort. I can quite happily roleplay sheathing my axes, but it sort of spoils the effect when I wave them in the NPC's face. Don't confuse the original post with other peoples responses about sheaths and animations etc, that has nothing to do with it. True there are a lot of things that we don't have control over in the game and therefore must roleplay, but there are also things we have specific control over, and if that's the case why should we roleplay it? All it needs is a simple NPC check. "if eqiuped weapon - respond thus" forget the "but if we have one hand free" and mobile phone comparisons etc, I am quite happy to see you dealing with a NPC if you are carrying a book in one hand and a lump of steel stock in the other, it's the category of the equiped item that I am discussing. An equiped weapon is a threat that simply shouldn't be allowed in town unless in the appropriate area for the appropriate reason (ie: the areana, if you are attacked by other player/NPC and etc). The NPC reaction is simply a way to encourage people to put away their weapons when in town.
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If you are going to have the npcs react in that manner then at least make the threat real, no more "harnquist is impervious to attack" Why should he feel threatened when he knows you cannot hurt him, Oh wait that is OOC so he can't know it.
So where do your weapons go when they are not in your hands? If you are going to force people to remove them they have to go somewhere, you cannot just eat them --- unless maybe you are a Kran. Sure there is /unequip xxx or whatever it is. This should be tweaked so that it has a delay of several seconds for each item unequipped, armor taking longer than weapons and you should have to take off your non-existent backpack before you can equip/unequip torso apparel.
You ask for a simple change and it brings into play all the things I mentioned and more. I admit my rhetoric was too aggressive but the idea is not new and has been discussed before. Was it wrong to suggest it? I don't think so, it has been a while.
By the way, Steel stock? sounds about as harmless as a lead pipe.... That book could have a glyph bound in it and a spell recipe on the page. I could quibble more but that would not help anything.
At least I derailed the cell phone argument :)
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You ask for a simple change and it brings into play all the things I mentioned and more. I admit my rhetoric was too aggressive but the idea is not new and has been discussed before. Was it wrong to suggest it? I don't think so, it has been a while.
No, I am asking for a simple request and you are needlessly complicating it.
When I walk through the gate into Hydlaa I just stop for a moment (or even do it on the run just outside the gates) and put my two axes into my inventory. Yes it's not completely IC, but nor is "inventory", but basically I look at "inventory" as simply a list of all things I am carryng wherever I have them, so if I take my axes out of my hand slot and put them onto an inventory slot it's good enough to imagine taking them out of my hands and popping them into their sheaths, yes it would be nice to have a sheath but not necessary.
As for it being a real threat or not, why not? You attack an NPC, the NPC goes, HELP!?! Then you immediately become a valid target for all Players in vicinity so we play pile on the robber, and whoever kills you get a reward for aiding the guards. Of course if there is no help around then you actually rob Harnquist, but your character then becomes a known thief and no NPC's will deal with you, your only way to get stuff from then on is to steal it.
Oh BTW I did look but didn't see any previous threads so it must have been quite a while ago.
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I can agree that running around town with weapons drawn (equipped) is unsightly. I have caught myself doing it more often than I care to admit as well. While we are on it, why are so many people wearing armor while in town?
But herein lies the rub. Let's say I am overweight and using a seduction weapon. am I to dequip it and be stuck or drop items before entering town or dealing with NPCs. As someone said earlier, simple requests usually have far reaches consequences we don't even consider.
Now if there was a way for NPC's to recognize the use of a seduction weapon and ignore it being equipped then I agree, implement a no NPC with weapon equipped setting.
The point of this game, as far as I see it, is fun + realism. Seduction weapons can be argued as to realism, but why couldn't I have an item (weapon) that magically increases my strength? If I am required to hold it in my hand then I should not be penalized for using it.
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Yeah, ideas are simple only because one fail to see their complexity, and it depends from a point of viev, your experiences. Don't ever forget that.
On the little topic of weapons boosting strenght. I think this should be redefined. Sch a weapons are fine, but wit little differet approach, the magical strenght you get from magical weapon will aply only to what you can do with it. For instance it won't make you to wear more stuff, but will make your blows stronger, parrying better. This sounds slightly fine that there may be magical force, which make your whole body stronger, thus allowing you to move, with more in your bag, but it's a little clitche.
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I see the developers have done a pretty good job of keeping the merchants hands free in Hydlaa, at least, although that hammer Harnquist is holding looks pretty menacing. I certainly did not make an exhaustive survey of the npcs but I did look around. It would seem to me the executioner Gourdy would like as not keep his axe put away until it was time to use it but there he is with it ready to clock people. I also find it unlikely that the guards would keep their weapons and shields in their hands 24/7 and could be remodeled to have them on a belt only equipping them if necessary. Certainly they would keep their armor on while on duty. Of course they never go off duty somehow. If I recall correctly the mages all have their staves equipped, maybe not Levrus who has a house to keep them in.
Most of the other discussions were in general discussion if I recall correctly. Anyway, I am against the idea as I would find it extremely annoying but you probably figured that out. I may talk a lot but that is all it is.
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You talk a lot, but 90% of what you say is: we can't implement 'this', because someting isn't ready and we can't implement 'this someting else', because 'this' isn't ready. that's a dead end. lol
The idea spoken about in this thread could be implemented, even if something else isn't ready. Well, it could be implemented if someone actually cared to remove its faults. But instead, one side say it rocks as it is in first post and others (including me) say it needs to be tweaked, without telling how exactly.
So, unless someone tell how to do it, i don't see a reason to discuss it.
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While we are on it, why are so many people wearing armor while in town?
I don't really see that being an issue, you wouldn't take off your armour until you arrived home, that is to your house, and for most people passing through or visiting they maybe would keep wearing their light armour anyway, plate armour you would only expect people to wear gfor sepcific reasons, ie: big battle, tournament etc so that's already so OOC it doesn't matter.
But herein lies the rub. Let's say I am overweight and using a seduction weapon. am I to dequip it and be stuck or drop items before entering town or dealing with NPCs. As someone said earlier, simple requests usually have far reaches consequences we don't even consider.
Now this is a valid issue. However, and there are my thoughts here only, a character relying on the use of magic should accept that there are negatives as well as positives, in many magic systems the use of magic and magic items quite often has a negative aspect, so I would be prepared to accept that as simply being a consequence of relying on magic, and take it into account in my travels.
If I am required to hold it in my hand then I should not be penalized for using it.
And if I am required to enter the Death Realm to complete a quest should I be penalised for it by the DR curse? No it's not perfect, but nor is real life, there should be imperfections, they make it more appealing not less.
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In another RPG I have seen the possibility to switch between peace mode (weapons an shields are stored) and attack mode. I think something like that could be a good solution.
Sorry for posting to this old thread.
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Now this is a valid issue. However, and there are my thoughts here only, a character relying on the use of magic should accept that there are negatives as well as positives, in many magic systems the use of magic and magic items quite often has a negative aspect, so I would be prepared to accept that as simply being a consequence of relying on magic, and take it into account in my travels.
you have a valid point there. for instance, in Star ocean, when your dude/chick uses to much magic, they pass out from mental stress, and even though that's from casting them, there are in most cases positive and negatives to everything. for instance, getting drunk impairs your reaction, mining can make your rich, or dead, in truth the greater the reward the more pain is required to achieve it. the only ppl who don't understand this are ppl who's parents bought them everything when they were young, and when they learn the hard way, its much much tougher on them.
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I have an idea that I think would not be too difficult to code. It would require two additional inventory slots (don't know if that's simple or not, but that should be the hardest part), one for each hand. You could put your weapons in there and they appear on your belt (or are invisible, as long as graphics aren't ready). Now if you start fighting, the things from those slots automatically move into the "hand-slots" (those that already exist). Perhaps when you move out of a dangerous zone or into a town, weapons that are drawn should automatically move in those new slots, but I'm not sure about that. Of course you could always move them back manually.
If that is done, there wouldn't be the need to have weapons drawn "just in case" or because you could otherwise forget to put them in your hands before fighting. Even if weapons aren't automatically drawn when fighting, you wouldn't have to search your whole inventory for your standard weapons each time and could not sell them accidentally.