PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Granted or negated Wishes => Topic started by: Kixie on February 17, 2004, 08:49:40 pm
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Well i think weapons should be very hard to get in this game. Weapons should be some of the rarest most precious items in the game. Espcially good ones. Weapons should not be found on monsters, except select humanoid creatures. Weapons should also only be created by smiths. You get good weapons, by finding a good smith, and showering him with money and excelent materials. I feel way too many game put swords and weapons EVERYWHERE. But whatever. It doesnt matter. As i have found out my oppinion doesnt mean much around here.
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I think i agree for once with whemmy, though for possibly slightly different reasons. The relative scarcity of weapons in a game llike this would help to downplay the hack-n-slash idea that everyone has about MMORPGs. Almost everyone may have a pockt knife or small dagger, but few people may have a claymore or greatsword. This would help bring emphasis on RP and on working a regular job, instead of being an adventurer who just happens to do something else on the side when monsters are scarce. Also, non-dungeon quests would come into higher usage (i.e. get less ridicule) as people try to accumulate enough resources to create a decent weapon to enter those dungeons. I think this is a good idea and a good step towards creating as realistic an environment as possible.
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ok good weapons should be rare and defenatally cool ones should be too, but serously if i only have a 2 inch pocket knife, how in hell am i gonna get that rare glowing bastard sword? i think generic weapons should be farely common, atleast enough so that you can get started with something semi decent
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you can use that penut knife to kill. it wouldnt take that long to get a sword. there are other ways to get money, to earn materials and get a sword crafted. If you cant do much other than fight, you can always use your penut knife to kill npcs and take thier money. This brings up that fact that battles shouldnt take forever. Battles should be fairly short actually. If your stronger than a rat or beaver, you can kill a beaver in a short time. if 2 people fight with pocket knives they can only physically take 9 to 10 stabs. even in a fairy world where your 10 times the normal strength you still would physically not stand 10 stabs in the gut. I dont know, i like the idea of realistic fighting but i guess some would not as this would radically change idea of the game and it would almost be unrecognizable. But anyways back to the point. It should be very hard to get weapons, but hardly impossible or very lengthy at all. However i am not asking for this to be implemented in cb. i would rather cb be what it is supoosed to be, a tech demo. We should get a feel for combat and good weapons, then the devs should take them away and start making a realistic game.
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what whemy said. execpt that I don\'t think they should take them away completey, just make them more expensive like MB
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I would agree with you except I think this would detract from the fun factor of a game. Sometimes, you must sacrifice realism for fun in games. I don\'t know about you, but I would rather be able to jump into a gaem and find weapons and treasures off things I killed right away. Perhaps a limit on the number of weapon drops per day could be used-however I don\'t think this would really be very doable.
I think that monsters should have weapons, but maybe only special Boss monsters. Not Boss as in epic or quest, but perhaps like the \'Gang Leader\' would have the money and intelligence to use weapons, and therefore you would have to kill a group of enemies to get one weapon.
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first of all i didnt mean \"take them all away for ever, hahaha you lose\" but i meant as in a realistic fashon like i will now describe. If weapons were rare, people would value them alot more. This would be fun to me. I get on forums, games like outwar.com, newgrounds.com and other places where really fun things you get are earned (experience points, posts, money and stuff). I dont know why I am addcited to them but every thing i have earned that has taken me along time to earn, i REALLY enjoy. i would like weapons to be one of them. The only reason i dont have a galkard right now is cus the game is too laggy and i need a new comp. I dont know, maybe im screwed up in the head, but i really enjoy things that take me days, weeks or years to earn. This is probally why I enjoy rpgs so much. Not so much the killing and rping but collecting and making a cool character which i can stand back and say \"wow that took me 2 months to create.\" But oh well, i like games and things i earn like that so i would love weapons to be one of them. Plus the small fact weapons are hard to create in real life (years of work in some) and they shouldnt be as easy to get as in other mmorpgs (and rpgs in general)
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I think this is an excellent idea!
First it will give more value to the weapons that smiths do create. This encourages crafts which is good.
Second keeping weapons rare will be more realistic and I think it?s possible without detracting from game play. Especially if some common weapons (staffs, knives, poll arms, etc.) are still readily available. Historically, a good broad sword cost as much to a medieval knight as a car costs to us today.
Third, common treasure should only be ? well common. A good weapon is invaluable and making them common only waters down the fine name of the warrior caste. I always thought it was weird the random treasure thing. Killing mobs should not just be a mechanism to populate the world with +1 swords. The treasure should be only experience unless another player actually lost items when they got killed.
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ahh good thing my hands are my weapons. Of course I\'d have to buy some combat gloves, claws, katars, or something, dOh! Oh well since I don\'t plan on ever using a bladed weapon, polearm, axe, or ranged, it doesn\'t really matter to me :)
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The Idea of making weapons rare is an interesting one, but would probably be more acceptable to more people if specific weapon types are made rarer or more expensive that others, or if you make certain weapons rarer depending on wich part of the world you are in.
for instance- a basic spear is nothing more than a pointy stick, and a quarterstaff is even more basic than that- it stands to reason that a weaker person could do a reasonable amount of damage with a quality made spear, but a quarterstaff would be- and is easier to make, find, yet it takes some skill to use one properly- meanin that anyone could bash around with one, but after a little training and it could easliy match a group of well trained swordsmen- though if they ever DO get a hit in it sould be far more devastating.
another weapon that could be deadly- but may take more training, and would be pretty easy to find and use- would be the basic bow, -though Im really not sure what the plans for missle combat are .
so basically I agree that SOME weapons should be made rare, a sword or solid warhammer would and still do cost a small fortune in this world. but bows and staves, basic spears and clubs, were weapons that wouldnt be found out of place in any commoners home, and might not do the potential dammage of more expensive weapons, but in the right hands could be devastating and cheap
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*has only read the first post*
In the middle ages, in real life, good weapons were prety hard to get if you were poor... Though almost every peasant had a normal butcher knife, or a simple hand axe for choping wood...
So if you want to make the game more realistic in the sence of having good weapons be less common, you should make good quality weapons VERY expancive and normal weapons cheep so everyone can buy them.
Example:
Butcher Knife=50 tria
LongSword=10000 tria
Simple Hand Axe= 100 tria
Minitour Axe= 15000 tria
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Object to Buy Trias Hexas Octas Circles
a pint of good beer 2 tria - - -
a lunch in a tavern 5 tria - - -
leather pants and shirt 25 tria 2 hexa, 5 tria - -
a good steel sword 350 tria 35 hexas 7 octas 1 circle, 2 octas
farmer\'s one month salary 250 tria 25 hexas 5 octas 1 circle
healthy, trained pterosaur 45,000 tria 4,500 hexas 2,400 octas 180 circles
and there you have it...so this entire thread was a waste...this is just my way of saying I wholeheartedly diagree...
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so by disagreeing are you stating that you beleive weapons should be cheaper?
even if this is a useless topic, its just adding an agreement with the current state of affairs, in wich case, by your responce you are agreeing with the topic at hand
even though its redundant, its okay to agree.
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I am disagreeing with the idea that weapons should be expesive, and stating that we should just go the way they already have it...and I think you\'re confused...you\'re contradicting yourself...1 does not = 0...sorry bud
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did you see that a farmers monthly wage couldnt even get him ONE longsword. I would think that would stand to say that it would be pretty difficult to obtain one. Its not like you should find them laying out in the street somewhere. It should take many days to earn enough money through odd jobs and the such to earn enough money for a weapon as deadly as the longsword. really you just contridicted yourself right there in saying its already done and done. But whatever its up to the devs anyways. They can do whatever they feel is prudent and wise. BUT in my opinion weapons should be very rare and should take time to earn, not just find somewhere.
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Farming is a poor profession...adventuring is high risk, but also pays extremely well...That\'s also not just any longsword, it\'s a \'good steel sword\'...there\'s a difference...I agree that extremely powerful weapons must be rare, but just basic iron longsword\'s wouldn\'t be....they\'re essential to survive....
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Personally, I don\'t think a scrub adventurer should make very much at all.
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yeah really it adds to the romaticism of it all... hehe im at school... hehe im such a horrible student... oh well....... the forum troll strikes again!
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Adventuring is an extremely profitable profession, the only reason more people don\'t do it is because it takes so much skill and is so risky...you kill stuff...doesn\'t get much more profitable than murder, sadly enough....you kill an adventurer and you can double your money...if that\'s poor, then I\'d like to see rich...;)
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consider this:
PS has a high number of adventurers
if swords are easy to find in loot adventurers will find, say, 10 a day
adventurers will have about 40 swords by the time a farmer can afford 1
adventurers will not want to use the duplicate swords
adventurers will sell their unwanted swords
prices that adventurers sell swords for will drop due to competition
farmers will now buy swords from adventurers for much less than the original (quoted) price
Smiths will become useless
in summary.. if the cost of an item is high then it should be rare or other industries will suffer
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and that\'s what we call depression...good items=expensive...average items=cheap...just a basic sword would be cheap, while a vorpal great sword of wounding+5 would be expensive...you do realize we are completely agreeing here...don\'t you?
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the point i was making was that the devs (from what was quoted) want the value of \'a good sword\' to be such that a farmer would have to save for a month to get it.. and that if such swords were common then that wouldnt be the case
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well even if the so-so items should be somewhat expensive. I dont want to see \"rusted longsword\" on ever monster i encounter, or around every corner on the ground. there shouldnt be any spawns for something as important as a weapon of death.
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In medival times, hardly any farmers had swords. You know what they had? Rusty scythes, pitchforks, or maybe a heafty branch.
I say yay to the rare good weapons, for I had posted a similar thread before about super weapons.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7528&boardid=11&styleid=3&sid=615143c51e598cbc48ec63385878e018
However, dealing with enemy loot is a sensative issue. While not being able to loot their stuff will keep the immense wealth at bay, looting their items is more fun and realistic. How about you receive a rusted or damaged version of the weapon after you loot the enemy? That way, the weapon will break easily and be almost worthless compared to a new one, yet still handy for a farmer for one or two battles if he has no farm tools to use (I\'d use the farmer\'s scythe. :D)
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First off, I have to tip my hat to Whemy who has been arguing very intelligently in this post - a very pleasant surprise!
Next I have to say that I agree with him 100% - keeping the number of decent weapons in circulation down is critical to the idea of the PS experience system.
I won\'t repeat the finer points of this arguement because they\'re well known by anyone who knows their stuff.
Instead I present for your approval the following analogy...
In Hollywood MANY people are trying to make it big and score hot acting jobs, however, only a SMALL percent of these people ever make it to the point where they can consider it \"profitable\" - instead they take on small parts in addition to their normal jobs for the shear love of what they do, in the small hope that they\'ll one day get lucky. So when someone says, \"Is acting profitable?\" the answer is really no, save for the exceptional few who have the right mixture of talent and luck.
This is what I imagine the adventurer in PS to be like and this is why it is key to make good weapons hard to come by - everyone who tries their hand at adventuring cannot succeed (or at least succeed with ease) if it is too easy it is not fun for anyone - this is universally true.
Another note is that although peasants would have things like knives and axes they would be TREASURED items even though they were of little value. Losing a key tool like your ax or knife would be a major loss in medieval times and could even prove fatal.
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and here we are still agreeing...powerful items need to be rare, but average items should be at least fairly easy to come by for an adventurer...by average items I mean nothing with magical properties except maybe extremely weak ones such as a one time use scroll with weak effects or whatever. If adventuring wasn\'t a profitable occupation...then why take the risk? It\'s illogical and inefficient according to what you say....I wouldn\'t want the world\'s most dangerous job if I wasn\'t getting payed well or at least getting some major benefits...
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I have an idea! Maybe metal should be rare in Yliakum. Most swords people start out with are hand-crafted wooden swords that will break quickly, but are easy to make.
Nice?
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staying on the farmer idea even farmer\'s would go to war in certain circumstance\'s and they would take the metel from around the farm and puond them into sword\'s and such. most farmer\'s have to learn to be a smith in one form os another by neccesity.
then after the war they would turn there weapon\'s back into farm tool\'s .
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I\'m done with this discussion, as it is clear that we are all firm in our views and we are going nowhere...
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wow i just read my post sorry for the spelling ?(
but i also agree with keeping the good weapon\'s rare or else everybody and there dog would be running around with great axe\'s ,sword\'s etc. and that would take the fun out of trying to get the good stuff. a great deal of the fun i have in rpg\'s is upgrading weapon\'s and armor and if they were easy to get where would the fun be :D
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Originally posted by SnowWolf
First off, I have to tip my hat to Whemy who has been arguing very intelligently in this post - a very pleasant surprise!
Next I have to say that I agree with him 100% - keeping the number of decent weapons in circulation down is critical to the idea of the PS experience system.
I won\'t repeat the finer points of this arguement because they\'re well known by anyone who knows their stuff.
Instead I present for your approval the following analogy...
In Hollywood MANY people are trying to make it big and score hot acting jobs, however, only a SMALL percent of these people ever make it to the point where they can consider it \"profitable\" - instead they take on small parts in addition to their normal jobs for the shear love of what they do, in the small hope that they\'ll one day get lucky. So when someone says, \"Is acting profitable?\" the answer is really no, save for the exceptional few who have the right mixture of talent and luck.
This is what I imagine the adventurer in PS to be like and this is why it is key to make good weapons hard to come by - everyone who tries their hand at adventuring cannot succeed (or at least succeed with ease) if it is too easy it is not fun for anyone - this is universally true.
Another note is that although peasants would have things like knives and axes they would be TREASURED items even though they were of little value. Losing a key tool like your ax or knife would be a major loss in medieval times and could even prove fatal.
As this sounds great and wonderful, in reality it is a terrible idea. I mean, you guys are willing to sacrifice everything for realism! That\'s just dumb! Who wants to play a video game where they are a farmer and their only weapon is a pitchfork. Who wants to play a game where only 5% of adventurers actually manage to aquire profit at adventuring. So while in theory your idea could be fun, no one wants to play a game where only a few people have swords and good equipment while the rest of us....farm.
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Ald\'Amun Dungeonrunner: Why? Didn\'t you read my post? People do it because of the excitement! The risk IS the reason. If everything comes easily then it isn\'t fun. The initial saving to come up with a decent weapon to go adventuring is half the fun - it\'s what drives you to keep playing. The best way to prove this statement is to consider the extremes - what would happen if you had infinite hp? The game would be borning because you could never die - I mean, you\'d learn to kill things faster, but there would never be any risk.
Dalec: Sorry about that, I should have explained my post better. I am all for screwing realism. I don\'t want to sacrafice fun for realism I promise. The point I tried to make is that IRL (where we all really live) there are a lot of examples of how the most ADDICTIVE things provide extremely desirable rewards with high risk and at low rates of success. Being an actor. Gambling. SOOO many others. It\'s the rush! I do agree that we have to balance things so everyone can have fun - this is why I said in () that everyone should be able to do it with enough work.
In summary, I don\'t think there should be a few adventurers with everyone else farming (realism) I think that to start out some people will farm or teach or have another job to support their nightly adventures. Of course some will play it safe and farm more, but you\'ll still get those few that blow it all adventuring and then have to drag their sorry butts back into town looking to get some quick cash for food and ale.
When considering real life I never try to suggest we make the game like real life - I only try to draw examples from real life that carry over into the game. You can\'t escape your pyschology! The key is to find out what makes things \"fun\" and then implement them into the game in their simplest form. The \"essence\" of fun if you will.
Sound better guys? If not continue arguing your points and I\'ll try to come up with a better response - just don\'t give up on us ok?
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That makes more sense. But I still feel that eliminates a lot of the \'freedom\' you are supposed to have in a MMORPG. What if I don\'t ever want to farm or teach? I should have to just so I can go slay a few monsters? Well, I am more of the person who would rather do it your way for roleplaying purposes, but I wouldn\'t want to feel pressured to have to hold down a job so I can do the fun stuff. As you can see, it becomes much to like RL for my tastes.
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I don\'t want to work my butt off getting ready to go on my first adventure, I want to grab a few things and go...then work my butt off getting better stuff...Basic equipment should be common...IT\'S BASIC YOU MORONS! LEATHER! BWEEET!! KILLED A COW!!! I HAVE LEATHER ARMOR!!! WOW THAT WAS HARD!!! see what I\'m saying? getting powerful items is difficult...basic is easy...how are you supposed to get anything if you don\'t have anything? how are you supposed to make money without at least something to start out with? can I kill monsters armed to the teeth, when I have nothing? Probably not...you have to be able to have some equipment or you\'ll never get off the ground...*bashes head on desk and tries to get his mind off of this stupidity*
Edit:Sorry for being so argumentative today...I\'m probably ruffling a lot of feathers...
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Now lets get one thing straight. Weapons should be rare. Killing just about any normal animal should be VERY easy. A 5 year old with a stick can kill a rabit, possum, and a cow. They arent going to attack him so he cant really get hurt... Welll maybe not a cow, but if he had like a pocket knife he could. my point is, weapons should be very hard to obtain, but the balance should come with regular animals being very easy to kill, battles not as fast, and as far as the weapon mastering goes very quick. However getting stats like strength should take months of dedication and work to get to a somewhat high point. Thats how things work, thats how bodies and organic things work. IM not being a realism nazi, im saying this is how organic things work, you cant change all of biology in a game with swords and a medieval setting. If your gonna sacrifice one realistic aspect your going to have to change others. And another thing. There are TONS of unrealistic MMORPGs, why not build the first one? Seriously you act like im bad because i want a little realism. Maybe its because realism as far as most of the people in planeshift once, hasnt ever been tried, or completed. But your entitled to your opinion and i respect it, however at the same time you cant just bash mine.
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My feathers are in good working order I assure you, however name calling doesn\'t help your argument.
I agree that you should be able to start right off the bat - however the point of my previous threads was that one must balance the rewards with the risks involved.
To me freedom is very important in an RPG - however, what good is freedom if all of your choices have the same outcome? The fun comes from making risky decisions - if you want to start off quick and never have to work a job, there will have to be trade offs - in the end these trade offs, although appearing to just be a pain in the butt, will actually make everything worth it.
To re-examine the hollywood analogy - what we learned was that, even though the odds are against you, MANY real people still do it and enjoy themselves. When I refer to real life it\'s usually to underscore a pyschological concept that is applicable to gaming.
One concept is that the worth of something to a person is directly proportional to how hard it was to get, or the meaning attached to it.
To tie this into another thread where the realism argument came up - showing statistics as numbers - people say that we should keep numbers because people like watching their numerical stats - this is only partially true. The actual underlying concept here is that people like instant gratification - when they kill a monster they want to see that they\'ve accomplished something. This is shown IRL in the case of people who start to work out - most people quit working out before they can see the results of their training because the benefits, although immediate, aren\'t visible - people need to know that they\'re getting something for what they\'re doing....
To truely revolutionize the MMORPG community, we as the PS community need to identify and become familar with as many of these concepts as possible....
Thanks for reading!
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heres a suggestion (i did mention it somewhere b4)
Monsters drop appropriate loot (dragons drop dragon hide etc)
monsters acquire items from players they kill and these items are added to the loot
all appropriate tools can be used as (poor) weapons (eg the farmers pitchfork, the miners pickaxe, the tanners knife etc)
weapons can be destroyed dependant on their quality
result
only smiths can make swords etc (except maybe rare magical swords etc... tho these could be crafted by extremely skilled mage/smith combos).. this ensures their valid role in society
weapons arent dropped left-right + centre... only dropped by creatures that have proven they can kill a player weilding the weapon
difficult monsters become legendary along with their \'horde\'
new players can get right into the action but if they break their tool they loose the income from their trade until they can get a new one
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may b a special task or adventure shuld b put in so that at the end anyone who goes through it should have the choise of chhosing between a weapon or tria.
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Originally posted by Deddarus
heres a suggestion (i did mention it somewhere b4)
Monsters drop appropriate loot (dragons drop dragon hide etc)
monsters acquire items from players they kill and these items are added to the loot
all appropriate tools can be used as (poor) weapons (eg the farmers pitchfork, the miners pickaxe, the tanners knife etc)
weapons can be destroyed dependant on their quality
result
only smiths can make swords etc (except maybe rare magical swords etc... tho these could be crafted by extremely skilled mage/smith combos).. this ensures their valid role in society
weapons arent dropped left-right + centre... only dropped by creatures that have proven they can kill a player weilding the weapon
difficult monsters become legendary along with their \'horde\'
new players can get right into the action but if they break their tool they loose the income from their trade until they can get a new one
Where is the logic in this? So what happens when there is a busy day and lots of groups = almost no deaths of players. That would mean no weapons. And I don\'t want to lose my weapon every time I die.
Whemy: I have never bashed your idea, I only used it as an example. I am saying that your idea of having less weapons would interfere with the fun of the game. There is no real advantage to having weapons be so rare. Of course you can make the pathetic argument, \"I don\'t want to be handed everything,\" but that is just stupid. In EQ weapons were fairly common, but even at lvl 53 (before the 65th lvl increase) I never had enough cash and was using weapons that were barely up to snuff with what I was fighting.
And what is this obsession with Midieval times? This is not a Midieval game last time I checked, the only similarities would possibly the economies and maybe architecture, but even those are different. People keep bringing up peasants in Midieval times. The fact is, your average peasant worked his entire life on a farm with not enough food and disease rampant. Anyone who argues can take a history class. I don\'t know about you guys, but I don\'t want to play a game as a peasant. Another example of how realism is getting in the way of fun.
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Originally posted by Dalec
Where is the logic in this? So what happens when there is a busy day and lots of groups = almost no deaths of players. That would mean no weapons. And I don\'t want to lose my weapon every time I die.
Then get a weapon from a smith.... looting is not the only way of getting a weapon and to make it by far the easiest way you negate the whole purpose of having a smithing skill
as for loosing your weapon every time u die... u wouldnt... sometimes u\'d loose a bit of gold... sometimes u\'d loose something unimportant (eg a bandage or an empty bag).... without risk of loosing items (seems pvp aint gonna provide this risk from what i can tell) u end up with a server full of items... which leads to depreciation of item value... which leads to a crappy economy (believe me ive seen this happen)
plus.. if a group does go and kill the same creature spawn regularly then the loot they get will decrease, encouraging them to travel further afield... thus exploration is encouraged (ive seen servers where players only occupy about 10% of the map and the rest is left stagnant)
from what you have said u give the impression (rightly or wrongly) that you want the only reasonable way of acquiring a weapon to be through hunting.... regardless of where and how often
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I am with whemy on this, and I will explain myself. I somewhat recently played a game caled runesc***(you know waht I mean :D ), I\'m sure you all heard of it. Well, in that game anyone, and I mean anyone can get top notch weapons just by asking(of course it\'s easier if you have a friend). almost everyone is a smith and makes very good weapons. They are all loaded with money and resources so it\'s nothing to them to make you a sword. I LIKE REALISM. I don\'t like working my ass off for a month to get gold, just to see a newb walking around with same sword I worked for. The same goes for all smithing jobs. Things have to be hard to find/make and expensive to buy.
I agree with all of you that initial items are necessary, they help out in the start. There should be plenty of iron swords around for everyone. But not the same goes for good weapons and armor.
In ancient japan there used to be 1 single smith that could make best swords in the whole smithing community. Obviously only richest samurai could afford one of those. Single sword took years to make.
Now, let\'s examine Runesc***(you know waht I mean :D ), and I\'m sure other mmorpgs are same in this. The sword takes 5 minutes top to put together(if you have all resources). Now, that\'s lame. I propose that good swords should take a week to make(even when you found all the resources needed).
By the way, same goes for armor, shields, magic items, etc.
Yes, I think there should be players that walk around with best swords/items while others do not. The others can only drool looking at it. I think it takes away the fun for the nondedicated players, but adds fun to dedicated players. So in reality there should be a ratio of people who have top notch, unique swords to those who don\'t.
1 to 500 players should be able to obtain a sword/item like that. That could take them years, but hey, we are talking about the best weapons here, not everyday weapons.
As for creeps dropping weapons, now that takes away all realism. As for weapons lying around everywhere, same thing, it\'s just unheard of. This IS mmorpg, and i\'m not saying CHANGE it\'s meaning. I\'m just saying look at the ancient times of japan, europe and make some conclusions to yourself, this is rping after all. I don\'t want to RP in a game that doesn\'t even resemble the ancient REAL world, but shows some unreal wonderland where items are all on floor, anyone can grab
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nicely put
i\'d like to offer up a suggestion tho as an alternative to making 1 item take a week to make (as i think this may be considered tedious)
make weapons be crafted in parts and assembled
eg a sword
*Craft hilt (from a selection offering different levels of grip and defense for the user... ie crappy hilts = less effective parrying and dropped swords during fight)
*craft blade (from a selection offering different widths, styles etc ... ie broad blade = requires more str to swing)
this could also work for other weapons:
axe- handle, blade
arrow - feather, shaft, head
mace - handle, ball (spikey, not-spikey)
hammer - handle(length), head (pointy, flat, bumpy like a meat tenderiser)
u get the point
anyways.. what was i saying... oh yeah... each part could take a little while to craft then a further crafting time would be required to attatch them together.... thus to create a weapon will take a bit longer and have 3 or 4 fail chances
also.. this allows for more variety in crafted weapons
eg
craft +5 fire attack hilt
craft +5 energy drain blade
combine both
recieve +5F+5ED sword
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I think it is good to give smiths some more power by being the only option to get certain armor and weapons, but if you have to give them good money and items to create them for you, what makes you so sure that the smith will then return that verry rare weapon, instead of just keeping it for himself?
I would say that every1 can make weapons if you want that, or that you need a certain lvl to make weapons. like a smith lvl 10 but with his weapon crafting @ 20, could make the same stuff as a lvl 30 or 40 knight with no crafting. that way the smiths will have a bones of being able to make good weapons sooner, but doesn\'t press people to find a smith and hope he tis trustworty.
About time, in a starwars game the strongest weapon is the lightsaber. In one of these you have to make it yourself, others cant make it for you. You need normal and rare stuff, taking between 1 minute and several weeks to get 1 ingredient. Of course you need several ingrdients.
When you then have finally all ingredients you would have to make them useable, and then make the weapon. And that making would itself also cost hours/days/weeks. (with ofcourse being a smith lowers the time) . Because the only way to get the strongest weapon is to make it yourself, it would become a quest as well.
No-one will be forced to trust smithers whom they dont know. Everyone can make everything. But the lvl you need to make something if you aint a smith, or the more time you will need when not being a smith, will make sure being a smith will still hold advantages.
everything above can be changed, it is just a simple tought that might bring up ideas that with a bit working could turn out good.
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as for trusting a smith.. that applys to all trades.. and i reckon the devs wil prolly put in some kind of security system
eg
secure trading window (would require payment after item is complete)
NPC vendors/vendor stones (to sell items safely)
etc
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Don\'t you guys worry at all. As far as I have been informed, getting the best sword in the shop won\'t be easy. It WILL take several months of monster bashing to get the money for it. Then, of course, there will be the special/enchanted weapons which will, in a later version of PS, be dropped by the top-notch monsters who have acquired them eons ago, by killing legendary heros and such, or through quests, where some old mage sealed his sword in a magical stone, and only the right person could pull it out (I think we all know about that story :D). But anyways, you can all be sure that swords are, and will be, precious items, however a scythe is a formidable weapon, it just isn\'t of the same quality. Your scythe chan get chopped to pieces if you accidently block with it, however it takes many upon many hits to fully break a sword, and make it unusable.
As for smithes making l33t special unique super duper d00d weapons +10... No. :) Those weapons aren\'t made any more, they were made before time was time, during the days where both Laanx and Talad ruled the world, and guided their people, and these items were magically enchanted to stay unbreakable, so if someone from the new days was to create a unique sword, he or she would need to be in close touch with the gods. No mortal should be able to craft a godly item.
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TY GRONOMIST! No one would listen to me but I\'m hoping that what you\'re saying will get the idea through....POWERFUL=RARE! NONPOWERFUL=NONRARE!!! WOW THAT WAS HARD! *beats head on desk a few more times*
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As far as obtaining the best weapons in the game, maybe the devs can set up some kind of tornament or event in which the winner, what ever ingame status they may have can get some good weapon/item. I mean, isnt that the way King Arthur came to be?
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Tournaments for unique items? that has to be the best idea I\'ve heard on this forum for a long time...It would bring people from throughout the realms...they would probably take a few days, but it would be awesome...whoa...that would be excellent...wonder if they\'ll have something like that?
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if AGES acquires some uniques we will probobly put them up as prizes for the events we host (might keep a few back for ourselves :P)
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Originally posted by Ald\'Amun Dungeonrunner
Tournaments for unique items? that has to be the best idea I\'ve heard on this forum for a long time...It would bring people from throughout the realms...they would probably take a few days, but it would be awesome...whoa...that would be excellent...wonder if they\'ll have something like that?
If so many people do come, the winer of the tournament will probably be the one that lags teh least...
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Firstly you are forgttting one major part of the game... Quests. Remember those things that lead you off to great adventuring and great glory. Well you can also get rewards from quests. These rewards could be anything such as ala weapons.
ok secondly planeshift is not class oriented. this makes it hard to spread the weapons out over the populace. The only thing like a class is a job. There are also race restrictions like the klyros or whatever that one is called cannot wear heavy armor.
I have played to class oriented games which both also were race oriented. This allowed the weapons to be spread out amongs the users. Also the classes and races were fairly well balanced. I played \"Everquest\" and \"Earth and Beyond\". I have also been reading about and following \"World of Warcraft\" (WOW, created by Blizzard and based on the warcraft world). Ill give examples from Everquest first because it was the first one i played.
ok now everquest did have weapons on every creature basically. Once i found a sword on an asp (snake). But that is not the weapon i am talking about. Snakes had snake fangs which were piercing style weapons good for low lvl casters. these fans were only good for casters. because the other classes didnt use these casters now had their own little weapon. shamans tended to use blunt weapons at low levels. So did casters (staffs). this helped to brake the weapons up even more. Then most of the other weapons were left to the other classes. This helped getting rid of the weapons problem kind of because if a warrior found a dagger he either chucked it or sold it for quick cash. Because Planeshift is not like this it cannot do this. Also in everquest a lvl 1 character could use an uber lvl 60 and above wep if the newb had the weapon type skill (eg 1 hand slash). Planeshift could make certain weapons require certain levels and could also have bonus given at higher lvls.
now onto Earth and Beyond. EB was highly class oriented with stuff like explorer only and warrior only. also it had like terran only , progen only (races).EB weps also had level requirements. a lvl 5 beam wep required lvl 5 beam wep handling for example. Also sometimes the best item came from looting, sometimes from making it and sometimes from questing. It was never better to buy it from the vendors unless it could not be gotten anywhere else. Now better weapons were harder to make also. it required lvl 5 wep building to make lvl 5 weps for example. and to loot a higher lvl beam you needed to kill a higher lvl enemy. only non-organic objects had weapons you could use. and then the quests were harder and longer to with more danger but greater reward. Planeshift could use the level requirment system so that like a lvl 5 mace required lvl 5 skill in mace weilding or even lvl 50.
now on to World of Warcraft. I think WOW does the best in describing its ideas. its main page is http://www.blizzard.com/wow. It has a very good grip on how the economies of MMORPGS function. I am only going to do this from memory but it says that sometimes the best weapon may come from a quest but the next levels best weapon would be smithed. Now if we add hunting into that we get a very nice formula. I will explaing WOW\'s quest system. You get sent out to kill something. When you kill that a unique weapon is placed on its body which only you can see. this weapon only appears on this body when you kill the creature for a certain quest. It would not normally be here under normal circumstances. This adds a surprise so even if the npc tells you what reward he will give you you also get an extra reward from the quest.
ok another point. in MMORPG\'s you start in really low level areas where it is fairly easy to survive and kill things but the loot is pretty bad. these are your general weapons. Now because this area has low level stuff higher level people will move on. So all the higher lvl smithies move on too. all the quests and npc\'s give low level weps so you are forced to move on. So if there isnt any smiths in your area that can make what you want you can go to a higher lvl area and ask there. of course it will cost more because these people are wasting their time making low level weapons but they are getting paid so who can complain.
ok next point. not everyone will specialise in one type of weapon. some people may only specialise in 1 handed sword skill and never use another weapon skill. so these people will be looking for a one handed sword. So they go to an area that sells swords or where there are enemies that drop swords. Or they can do a quest for one. so different people will use different weapons. having to travel for you wep will take you on amazing adventures through the rich 1st layer near the crystal to the submerged 8th layer at the bottom of the stalactite and even through the stone labrynths to the surface or even further down,down into the massive cavern where under Yliakum the black shadow of Laanx awaits
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I\'m gonna have to agree with Whemy on this. Weapons should be rare no matter what. Everyone makes good points and not so good ones, but I still am in favor of the more realistic way. Mind you it still shouldn\'t be just weapons that are rare, armor too, even basic armor should be at least a little challenge. Sorry but I saw something in here about a cow, you kill it and you have armor. That\'s completely bull, there is way more to it to get your leather armor.
A game I loved for starting out was Dungeon Siege, you got a knife, and around you were some farm equipment, choose what you want and then your on you way. That is how it should be for this game. For lack of a better term \"I don\'t want it all handed to me\" it ruins the fun that goes into getting even a basic armor//weapon.
Adventuring isn\'t all about fun with lots of risks and rewards, there was also the idea that maybe you\'ll discover something new and maybe name it after yourself. Maybe they should do something like this for Planeshift. Don\'t name everything, leave some parts of the world unnamed and let people go out and find them and call it their own. That would give more fun to adventuring, it would give you another purpose to do it besides profit.
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(im speak spanish, so excuse any mistakes in here, please ^^)
this problen about wats realistic, or wats fun, or wats fair, about weapons,....well as i read i see there are people who is confuced about how woud it work if it was real, wat i mean is, the amount of weapons is proporcional to the violence of the enviroment, that plus the amount of metal, so....... the amount of weapons should be limited to the amount of material for them, also wen you kill a monster and he drop a weapon, it has to be something the monster take from another player........but wat happens if theres to many weapons, i mean if they are created by players, the amount may overflow, you could find weapons lying in the floor of the library, or behind a simple barrel....well to fix that, lets make the weapons brake by ussage, also if there is a metal eating monster, or a group of weapon and item stealing monsters, well....theres a lot of posible solutions for the balance of weapons, but the main idea is that they dont have to be expensive, they have to be limited (and of course, if theres no much to sell, the prices will go up, and if theres to much, the price will go down). ahh, also....weapon smithing should be hard, i mean from 20 pounds of iron, you make a 10 pound sword, the rest of the iron is wasted.....to add to it, it also should cost more than just the metal, in some cases wood, bones, and some clothes should be nessesary. but not weapons spawning by hitself....
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Fhinias = an alt ? hmmm sounds alot like some 1 we know
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Originally posted by snow_RAveN
Fhinias = an alt ? hmmm sounds alot like some 1 we know
emmm, whats an \"alt\"?
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whoaaahhh dont go ruining tha game jsut yet fellas....
i was thinking that weapons in MB were possitively OUTRAGEOUS!!!
when you begin the game.. based on you class you should recieve a starting weapon such as a \"rusty sword\" or something simple then you shuold be able to get swords from killing monsters but the rarity and L33tness of the sword will depend on the monsters level..
i also want to be able to get the stuff i saw the monster has..
EX: i kill big skelletin thingy and it had a huge sword... i want to be able to get the sword he had...
but weapons should have level strength and dexterity requirements so just any noob can go runnin around hittin ppl with his bagass sword
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nah a minimum req wont work but you should be able to master a type of sword and other swords would be slightly affected by that mastery
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Weapons in MB are merely status symbols and for RP. They\'ll be cheaper in the next release.
I don\'t think weapons should have requirements, except perhaps if the weapon is too heavy for you to weild. You should be able to use any weapon, but if your skill at weilding that type of weapon is low you won\'t be able to use it to its full potential.
ex. You find a sword that does 10-30 damage, but you specialise in polearms so your skills in sword fighting are undeveloped. You wouldn\'t be able to hit someone with that sword and deal 30 damage, most you\'d do is 11 or 12.
I think -good- weapons will likely be more difficult to come by, but in the PS setting I don\'t think weapons in general would be rare. Mind you I don\'t think that every creature you kill should drop a sword or axe or some other completely ridiculous item. When you kill a creature you should get its meat, hide, bones, etc. But where would a random non-sentiet creature get an axe, did it eat it? But if, for example, you manage to kill some demon creature that weilds a sword enchated with magical flames, you should be able to take the weapon from its carcass.
And of course theres going to be blacksmiths to craft weapons, wich you can buy. So basic weaponry won\'t be rare, just with a price tag :P
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makes good sense... i just hope \"said\" pricetag is not 9999999999999999999 tria like it is in mb
and i do believ that when you loot a simple low level creature you should get a dagger or something small occasionally
-- bigger creasture.. maybe a longsword \"ONCE in a while\"
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You should be able to get weapons from a creature -if- its a sentient creature that actually weilds that weapon. Perhaps a bone dagger from a goblin type creature. But getting a sword from an overgrown spider (that doesn\'t have hands capable of weilding said sword) or similar is just ridiculous.
As for the pricetags, a \'good steel sword\' is said to be about 350 tria in CB. That should give you an idea of the prices.
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*claps furiously* mr. Dalec i couldnt have said it better CHEERS to you!!
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Ok, the idea that ALL weapons of a given type should be expensive is bad. If our characters can start with skill in a given weapon, yet it is so expensive that there is no realistic way for that character to have ever even held a cheap version of that weapon, where does any realism kick in?
And also to think about balance issues. If weapons are all expensive, then a monk style character that would use unarmed combat would have a definate advantage. I\'m sure there is a similar argument about magic, so I won\'t mention that, but the realms of armed combat should not be made so difficult to do because someone would prefer to use a weapon over a bare fist.
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*has only read a few posts*
I agree, in most games you find alot of weapons by killing a monster..
or worse just an animal who can\'t think or wear anything.
Shops should only sell some starter weapons, for fighters. Most people wouldnt need good weapons becuase not everybody is gonna be a fighter in the game. And I think most of the people will use magic to fight. Civillians should use simple knives to protect themselves abit and they should take a few defence lessions to protect themself.
Swordmans or dwarves with axes etc. should start with some simple weapons that could be bought in a shop, these weapons will be quite expensive. This will let them start training, and in the main time they can search for a good smith. When they found a good smith with cheap prices (everybody prefers his own non-NPC smith becuase some are cheap and create newbie weapons and some masters will create very good weapons for profesional swordmans, but are rather expensive).
Alot of materials will be used to create a sword or axe or whatther other weapons can be used, and the smith should also be able to smelt special rare crystals into the weapons to give the weapon a special magical effect. This could be negative or positive, and the weapon could be wasted (just destroyed) when they smelt one in it, the better the smith skill, the better the higher is the change on succesfull smelting of the crystal(s). Smelting combinations of crystals in it should give other effects, after some time the smithy should know wich combinations are possible to get good effects.
Ofcourse smiths should only create weapons for players when they ask, I mean they could also just create alot of weapons and than sell them (just like normal shops). I think smiths should also be able to sell the weapons for the half of the price on normal NPC shops and than other people will be able to buy them in there.
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Animals should give bone clubs when you skin them, because you can use their leg to beat crap. Also-- maybe use a few of their bones as crude arrow tips.. I.e. fingers etc. Animals can have their advantages/ weapons :) Monsters... well- ogres n stuff.. they got big ugly clubs... maybe they killed somone and took their nice.... SHINEY .... pretty sword... and left it in their loincloth, BAM! they got loot on em... see how that works?
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Cheep Rusty Old = Cheep, Common
Glowing Sharp and Forged in the fires of MT Doom... = Rare, $$$$$$$$
Drops should only be the weapon the monster has, and this only happerns occationaly. The weapon is cheep, and no one wants them. Its a monster.....
Im with Ald\'Amun
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In my opninion it realy sucks that \"only gods can create powerfull \"l33t\" weapons... With this smithy\'s sucks, I mean no advanced swordmans or master etc. are going to buy weapons from the smiths since its better to get one from monster (when you are storng enough).
I think it would be better to have the power in some crystals, and these crystals can be dropped by huge strong monsters. Than the smiths with high skills will be able to smelt it into a weapon to create powerfull weapons for fighters.
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Smiths should be able to make swords similar to \"godly\". Of course as Grono said, Godly swords can only be dropped. That\'s understandable, however, smiths should be able to make swords that hit just as strongly. Auras, special abilities, certain magical powers should only distinct Godly swords from crafted swords.
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I agree sashok20,
Smiths that can only create bad swords.. that sucks :(
When your a master in blacksmith you should be able to create the most powerfull weapons in the game, thats my opinion.
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Same, Smiths need a Stable place in society!
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Hummm... lets see....
I sort of agree with the fella banging his head on the table about a low quality item being easy to get and something realy good being hard to get. That seems pretty logical and the only thing you can argue there is the balance in the low quality(cheap) / high qualith (expensive).
So a sword, a knife, a wooden stick or a rock. As long as it lets you into some adventuring should be easy enough to get for people not intrested in rping a farmer / miner /magician.
But the benefficts you get from basic item should not be so far off from a farmers salary. (and pleaze do remember the killing by kindness mentioned that prevents overpopulation, adventuring is risky ;) )
You can have fun adventuring, shure, you can kill some weaklings, but dont expect to get redy to kill the ancient evil that lures in the labirith and get uber riches right away.
Another thing I truly dislike is people with no life camping the same monsters over and over. just doing the same thing for countless hours and getting an uber item at the end. Yes they worked for it but its so not rping to deserve something good it hurts... Its just like boredom resistance to doing the same thing over and over...
I realy have no idea how to solve this problem, but maybe the ancient wepons can only be obtained from quests (hence theyr uniqueness) and not farmed from some monster that respawns every 2 hours or so with the same uber wepon. (think this is wat gronomist mentioned).
Now one thing Id like to see implemented is the following and it would also improve the value of smiths in the society leaving ancient items to have its value:
Wepons atributs should be mostly not visible. What I mean here is that you cant tell the quality of a wepon just by looking at it. Why must a wepon forged in ancient times have to glow and say +200 dmg ?
Its imposible to forge 2 swords exactly the same, may be the same model, but why not had some modifiers depending on the skill of the craftsman.
So we will end up with several longswords, all of them slightly different. A smith with a high reputation would provide a longsword with possibly very good modifiers.
These modifiers could even be implemented in shops, wouldnt it be great if you went to the shop and end up with a sword that was really well forged and was selling for the same prices of the others :)
Ho well just some ramblings...
PS: Sorry about the spelling mistakes, Im to lazy to run an auto corrector on it. Iv read it over and think its understandable
PS2: Dang I read after I posted and it wasent real clear so edit :P
PS3: Dang 3rd edit.... grrr... its my first post Im bound to improve so bear with me
PS4: OMG... Not only had I mentioned the wrong forum godess, I spelled her name wrong.... I was afraid a severe spanking was headed my way so had to edith a 4th time
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There will be smiths in game. If they make anything, they\'ll lower their prices to compete. If they lower their prices, their competition will lower their prices.
Things will be come cheap because of good economy.
You can\'t have all weapon types rare either, because there will always be smiths making them, always.
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I think some of you are missing the whole point of the thread. When I was writing this my whole point was, \"Any weapons should be rare\". The only weapons you should be able to use for a good while are sticks and stones. Do any of you realize how rare a good slab of steel, iron or bronze was back 300-400 years ago? I mean it was punishable by death to steal someones weapon. Why? Because they were a HUGE ticken item. Bigger than cars are to us now a days. Good weapons were UBER rare, if you could slice through a foot of good sized wood, that weapon was regarded as the best for miles. Anyone with this would be VERY respected. You wouldn\'t just get one after passing some ridiculous test or paying 3 cents.
All weapons should be rare IMO, it should take someone a good month or 2 to get a weapon that could do any real good damage, untill then we should have to forge cheap sticks, pikes and staffs or throw rocks out of slings.
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NOTE: I did not read the whole thread...
Weapons should be sold...
1) The better the weapon, the bigger is the price
2) There should be the abile to sell//buy//sell weapons
3) Weapons with magical attributes should cost more
4) Weapons that have a spot for a powerup should cost more *
Weapons should have some rules...
1) The better the weapon, the deadlier it is
2) The better the weapon, themore EXP you need to have to wield it
3) The better the weapon, the harder and more expencive to fix it
4) Weapons can have magical attributes
Weapons should be made...
1) It should be a long process
2) It should cost you less to create the weapon then for the buyer to buy it
3) To add magical properties you must know some softmore magic
4) To add a place for a magical powerup you need to know some minor magic
Weapons should be found on Slain Demons...
1) These wepons need to be \"identified\" to be used properly
2) These weapons should be worn (aka: a bit dameged)
3) The Wapon(s) carried should be different for each demon
4) The stronger the demon, the better the wepon should be
5) A demon that cant use a weapon must pay no attention to it
Weapons should be rare...
1) Rare weapons should have special properties
2) They should cost large sums of money
3) They should be found in secrets//gurded be powerfull beasts//both//etc-
Ummm.... Whacha think? Suggestions?
Also, I have some suggestions for Super-Rare Super-Powerfull Super-Deadly Weaponry (that should be guarded by Super-Bosses) if anyone want to I can tell about em....
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danny I agree to a point, but I think that\'s too extreme... this is not stone age, since smiths are around, metal work is quite common.
some of you missed my point, or maybe not :D i see some of you agree.. let me make it clearer some more..
Just understand that any profession in game should be able to make best stuff, while it could be very rare, but still possible... Otherwise, and I hope you see my point on this, there is absolutely no need for those professions that will not function to it\'s fullest..
If a smith cannot equip a best warrior in game, smithery is not needed.. If you say that it\'s still needed to dress up noobs or intermediates, you are showing some sort of pity towards smiths, i cannot swallow this.
How may you ask should godly swords be different from smith created swords. Auras and special abilities and names. Smith cannot possibly create for example there\'s a legendary sword \"talad sword\".
Now, this \"talad sword\" may be able to hit with 200-300hp ponts for ex. Smiths should be able to make a sword (although rare ) that also hits 200-300hp and no less if not more. That being said, this \"talad sword\" is unique and has its own unique features.
this \"talad sword\" could have \"talad aura\" which is an aura that spreads health regeneration, stamina regeneration, faster running aura across some area from player. This sword could have an ability that when player reaches certain demon cave, this sword lights up, and auras get stronger and maybe even it hits harder.
Finally this sword has a legend, a story behind it, that noone can take it away from it.
Smith cannot possibly make these auras because he is not talad and cannot comprehend such, so he\'s limited to simple auras, simple abilities, etc. but not the power of strike.
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Originally posted by sashok20
danny I agree to a point, but I think that\'s too extreme... this is not stone age, since smiths are around, metal work is quite common.
Even at the height of the Dark Ages only about 1:400 had a weapon of some sort. Even if there are lots of smiths, the required material and craftsmanship needed to make anything more than a sharpened hunk of metal was enormous. I think that the list of weapons obtained should read something like this.
1: Fists
2: Simple bali stick, or staff
3: sling or sharpened stick
4: Pole arm or handle with iron tip
5: Progressive short sword or dagger
6: Full longsword
7: Claymore
8: Galkard caliber weapon.
Extreme? Perhaps. Fun? IMHO yes. It would be nice to see your simple peice of stick evolve more and more untill its a complete galk. It\'d give your weapon a bit more importance and you wouldn\'t be as hasty to wonder into a place where you might lose it.
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I like the idea of random stat modifiers for weapons. This would give each weapon some uniqueness, and put more varation in weapon prices. Some of these modifiers should be invisible to the player (eg does 5 more damage) but others should be plain to see (eg a sharper edge than might be expected, or good quality work on the hilt). In my opinion this would put more interest into being a smith, and they could watch their craft evole over time. This would reduce the \"at level 60 I can make galkards\" mentality and replace it with a \"If I work hard I will be able to make the finest swords in the land\" system.
Judging by the technology in the game, I don\'t think that weapons should be that rare. While peasant\'s didn\'t own swords, they maybe had a dagger, and large numbers (eg. 50,000) weapons were available to arm the armies, so if a player had a \"normal\" level of wealth he/she could probably own a weapon if they had a need for it.
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Originally posted by dannythompson
Originally posted by sashok20
danny I agree to a point, but I think that\'s too extreme... this is not stone age, since smiths are around, metal work is quite common.
Even at the height of the Dark Ages only about 1:400 had a weapon of some sort. Even if there are lots of smiths, the required material and craftsmanship needed to make anything more than a sharpened hunk of metal was enormous. I think that the list of weapons obtained should read something like this.
1: Fists
2: Simple bali stick, or staff
3: sling or sharpened stick
4: Pole arm or handle with iron tip
5: Progressive short sword or dagger
6: Full longsword
7: Claymore
8: Galkard caliber weapon.
Extreme? Perhaps. Fun? IMHO yes. It would be nice to see your simple peice of stick evolve more and more untill its a complete galk. It\'d give your weapon a bit more importance and you wouldn\'t be as hasty to wonder into a place where you might lose it.
I don\'t disagree about this. So you suggest that smiths take very long to come up with single sword item and that it would be worth quite a lot? It\'s too complicated to balance how much swords smith can make.. etc. maybe what you are suggesting is that until player gets stronger, he/she can\'t equip certain weapon.
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Originally posted by sashok20
maybe what you are suggesting is that until player gets stronger, he/she can\'t equip certain weapon.
No the point is that you can equip anything when you want to, but you wont be as effective and you probally wont be able to obtain taht weapon due to rarity and cost.
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So you will actually do yourself worse if you pick up a weapon at early stage etc. I like that idea, kinda like if amateur plays with knife he\'ll cut himself.
Although problem is, this has to be implemented, so that it\'s interesting and falls into RP. A very basic thing could be that you pick up a weapon and you do very low damage compared to your bare fists actually.. and as you train more, your hits become better until a point your fist dmg dont increase, so you pick up a stick, your hits actually start out not as strong as your fists left off, but as you train, you develope the stick, etc. Maybe if it\'s thought out more..
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i hate to be the one to point it out but this isnt medieval times on earth were in, this is medieval times in Yliakum were talking about. For all we know it could be a very metal rich place with lots of skilled miners and skilled smithers and if it is then there should be plenty of weapons and plenty of awareness of how not to accidentally impale yourself with weapons.
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Originally posted by MercenaryVII
i hate to be the one to point it out but this isnt medieval times on earth were in, this is medieval times in Yliakum were talking about. For all we know it could be a very metal rich place with lots of skilled miners and skilled smithers and if it is then there should be plenty of weapons and plenty of awareness of how not to accidentally impale yourself with weapons.
Indeed Merc, but as far as we know there could be laws against owning weapons at all. The truth is that we are all making our own opinions here because we truely can deduct nothing with the information given to us thus far. However it is fun to wonder untill CB comes, and when it does hopefully most of these question will be answered. :)
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i only think that weapons should be rare to find... and in no other point should weapons be rare, because i think that at least 65% of all players wants to be adventurers and go out in the forrest to kill some monsters... lets say a new player gets into the game and asks where can i find a sword and then a bunch of players say it is very rare to find a sword and its illegal to have a sword, then the new player says: This sucks.
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id definitely agree with Kougra. And as for the \"its illegal to have a weapon\" thought from whemy in the economy page it says the price for a good steel sword and now while the pricing isnt correct im pretty sure that there will still be swords legal.
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well what I think on the matter is that the game would sux if it took 1 - 3 days to find a weapon but it would also be bad if you found the best weapon in a corner of a pub, I think that weapons should not be hard to buy/ find depending on there type. say a shop might sell a bronze dagger for 25 tria but then a iron dagger would be 75 tria and a steel dagger would be 125 tria but when buying a powerful weapon should be higher like the sword of light (EG) should be like 25000 tria. As for smiths they also have to mine recourses so they could sell steel to create a dagger for 80 tria (because it is not pure)
I would not like to go adventuring for 3 hours to only find a dagger but I wouldn?t like to do the same thing to find the sword of light.
Also if weapons were illegal then wot would the point be because then you could only fight hand to hand.
Also what about ranged weapons basically a bow and arrows what would you price an individual arrow?
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The whole referal to weapons being illegal was just to make a point, no ones word here is the law. All we have so far is speculation, so keep your mind open. As far as questing for 3 hours and only finding a dagger, I hope you wouldn\'t be able to find a dagger anywhere. Have you ever found a dagger while walking down the street? The whole point of making these weapons rare is just so you will appriciate them more and Powergamers will be less inclined to go into a dangerous place where they could lose something they have grown with since day one.
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i just think that if weapons are hard to ger / rare it would decrase game play cos no one would have anything
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Good weapons should be hard to get, and their numbers be limited by the game. (eg by requiring a special \"Galkard Hilt Binding\" item that cannot be player made and must be bought from an npc).
But not many people would play a game in which they must fight with sticks and butterknives, so some weapons (eg spears, wooden staffs, and daggers) should be readily available. (This doesn\'t mean monster drops, non-humanoid beigns should not carry human\'s items)
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i agree with some points from the of the above posts
1) You shouldnt find the best weapon in the corner of a pub.
2) If weapons are hard to get it would decrease game play.
3)Monster should drop swords alot etc.
That said i dont agree that monsters should drop any weapons. They should drop crude weapons, large clubs and the like. Also they should drop trias. They kill someone they look at the body, ah shiny, they take it. This could also mean that a particularly stupid monster who takes shiny things could be carry a dagger or some such.
And as for whemyfields have you ever walked down a street and saw a dagger there. No i havent but then again ive never walked down a street in Yliakum
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Only certain sorts of monsters should drop anything except bones, meat, ashes and body parts.
These monsters (that drop other things) should be humanoid or para-humanoid beings that have some manipulatory ability, such as skeletons, ghosts, zombies, and demons.
Monsters that have no manipulatory capability should not drop anything except that which is their body. Monsters like this include cows (how scary) lions, dragons, sea monsters, dinasaur-like creatures, giant spiders and things similar to these.
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But not of Hack-n-Slah live a MMORPG the diversification of weapons make it better, like a Wipe, a Nunchako, a Bow, some boomerang, hammers, scythe, katar, throwing-dards, knucles, something-sharp-and-circle-to-throw, a-sharped-chained-scythe-to-throw, and a brand new world of weapons can be add to the game...
If u think weapon is a boring thing, think twice...
MarcialArts arre good, but not all
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Let\'s revive this. Sorry for not posting here sooner.
I should have dug through here, instead of posting to the tail end of other threads.
Here\'s how I see it. Adventuring should be difficult. An economy needs to be established, and players not NPC\'s should be responsible for establishing that economy.
We have to stop thinking in a way of just things costing money...
The biggest worry is that economy will drive down the cost.
The game begins.
We\'ve established teachers... that solves the initial training factor, but for the most part schools are for theory. It\'s not very often that we keep going back to school 100 times to upgrade skills once we\'ve chosen a profession, or trained for a profession.
The reason you go back to school is to learn theory for a different skill. To impose a constant constraint that requires continual spending of money to level up is unreasonable, real life just doesn\'t work that way.
hmmm... this is going to get long.
When we create our characters we can choose limited birthing characters that are esentially genetically imbred into us. Each covering a basic line of work. So when we create out character we are choosing a potential career.
It should be said that often people go to school for a profession and find out when they get into it, it proves to be something they just don\'t want to do, or they find out that there\'s already so many of them out there, it\'s impossible to compete it that job market, so they go back to school. Unfortunately that\'s how life is, but the fundamentals for this are already established in PS.
Everyone agrees, that it should require multiple people to create nearly everything in the game, and it should be diverse. I agree 100%. But the problem is over coming the fears of items being undersold.
The basics for a smith to forge a weapon will always be the guiding factors. In PS already when I\'m mining, people approach all the time who claim to have great strength and can carry many arm loads of ore, or are willing to ferry items to town. As crude as PS is, it\'s already begun to form an economy. We\'ll get to how money factors later.
The miner already realizes he can get say 6-8 trias from a blacksmith for his ore, but may only be able to carry 4-5 based on his strength. So for each really long trip he\'s making upto 30 tria. Anyone who has mined, knows it takes a long time to find ore.
Now the ferryman can say carry 30 ore, and sell them for 6-8 trias, and says he\'s wants a 30% cut.
But we can all progress in strength training, so eventually the miner who should naturally get an increase in strength from mining as he\'s working his muscles, and natural gaining experience in how to mine. Will eventually be able to carry more ore, but at the same time, for the ferrymen not to be eliminated they\'re strength training, or doing activities that natural increase there capacity beyond what the miner is naturally attaining for his job.
Think of this like a miner, compared to a professional weight lifter. The basic economy is balanced natural on skills are attained and leveled. Schools should be used to advance skills quickly, natural work should advance skills slowly, but for free once a basic theory has been learned in that skill.
By establishing different metal deposits, which the game has already done, different mining markets have been established, and greater distances needed to be traversed from the mining point back to a blacksmith that is willing, or able to pay for the ore.
From the blacksmiths point of view, he needs some way to make money to pay the ferryman, who in turns pays the miner.
It gets a little more complicated, I\'ve actually other users who have attempted to establish a group to mine, now you\'ve established the miners guild. And a pyramid effect is born. You\'ll always have people trying to undercut the union, but by the long and means, natural order states, the guild will put pressure on the little guys to join. It\'s progressive strong-arming.
Side-tracked sorry.
Back to the blacksmith, as mentioned in the
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=15758&boardid=11&sid=e2db3536e577c0b5a4be1fb5adbe443f&page=2#21
Natural trade and the barter system was the primary mode of conduct for currency in the middleages. It will always have a place. Leather workers, people raising and slaying cows, or skinning gobbles, or rats, or otherwise. But we still don\'t have a need for adventurers.
Mines, minerals and things should be guarded or in locations that readily inhabited by creatures that require the adventurers to keep them safe. Platinum mines should be hard to get to, but I don\'t think so much that creatures aside from the basic ones needed to establish an economy are necessary.
If you permit PKing, the economy would collapse, because the people needed to keep it running will be strongarmed by the thieves guild to give up there goods.
Now you\'ve established guild wars, Hack-N-Slash has been eliminated aside from the natural progression of players RPing out there the class they decided to evolve in. This is what gives PS the potential everyone is talking about.
The biggest problem is establishing how do we introduce currency. Even in the middle ages, money was a necessity. Banks formed and otherwise by the establishment of greedy corporations hoarding money. Or kings, thugs, and mofia type gang rings imposing the, \'give me your lunch money, or I\'ll pound you\'. People wanting to play paladins now have a purpose. More importantly at the time of creation people should start out with some amount of money. Not a lot, but monsters can drop money.
There\'s a problem with paying teachers as they\'re not part of the economy, so they\'ll effectively be eating coinage. Think of this as people who burn dollars, or hoard pennies, or money that has to replaced do to natural loss, or wear and tear. Initially money might be pretty hard to come buy. But if you introduce a basic farmers market... depending how complicated food is, but bakers and cooks will need grain\'s, wheat, flour, or whatever. Farming is unrealstic, it would require a bizarre deference in time. But this is likely to require putting out money... another source for a void to money.
Possibly a mint, or individuals who could manufacture money. Give mining gold, or something a purpose, through refining it. Platinum, the same way. I know there\'s trias, hexas, and such... We still haven\'t really solved a money shortage problem. For the most part, individuals during that time period were essentially self-sufficient.
A minting guild, might solve this... But now you have bankers... This oddly enough was usally given to the local Abbey/Church, as they were just, and upheld the beliefs of the kind, and his reigning feudal/monarchy of the time. If you can trust the church, who can you trust?
Still doesn\'t really solve a neverending pit of vanishing money, and miners/minters from controlling the economy. Groowl... okay... Even if banks were introduced, along with the local church/abbey/paladin/cleric guild, etc... it wouldn\'t solve anything, as people would take out loans, and the entire economy would be running a permanent deficit. And having individuals minting money would create a bigger imbalance.
But if you think about ancient times, money was very scarce, to have a gold coin was considered somewhat well-off. The king imposed taxes, and hoarded most of the money. But it\'s believed that most people were required to go work for the local governement for a few days each month, and they recieved a very limited wage.
The problem is establishing what these roles could be. Possibly on bounty, outstanding warrants, or people on the payroll of the local governement. How much time passes, would it be a daily payout? monthly lump sum... Or maybe the ideas of NPC teachers isn\'t such a good idea. If people as mentioned in a couple threads could teach the theory of there honed skills to others, the guilds really then serve a purpose.
Initial character creation assigns basic skills. They level through use. People are often born with things are naturally good at, that evolves naturally without formal education. Money that would have been lost in the NPC teacher pit, is now rotated through players. Minting is scrapped, but if a bank was instated, that took raw ore materials and paid out cash, then money is being distributed back in the economy through a bank controlled NPC guild. Miners are still likley to be more profitable, but as is any mining operation. It\'s a risky business.
I think you get the idea at this point. Still has some things that need to be ironed out...
Alright... what about Quests...
We\'ve do away with them. To a point...
If you scrap NPC\'s
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=15750&boardid=11&sid=e2db3536e577c0b5a4be1fb5adbe443f&page=1#11
The economy has created a need to for say a dragon tooth as a regeant for a potion. The alchemist puts up a post to the mercenary/adventurer guild that he needs a tefusang tooth, and feather from a pheonix, and his own alchemy skills such as herbal gathering, or such, has been able to able identify plants to aid in the final regeant requirements.
I fail to see how restricting, and introducing NPC\'s helps the game.
For that matter, there\'s enough people from around the world, I\'ll bet you\'ll see portions of towns or entire guilds devoted to people of different languages. You\'ve spawned a whole new portion of trade. Hiring a translator. It just so happens the greatest person the game is Italian, and he knows his craft well, but he has no way to communicate to the public.
This is totally how I see PS progressing. The greatest thing as mentioned in some of my other posts, is that it cuts down on the time required for Developers. I think these ideas are worth everyones pondering...
Instead of developers worrying about populating the world, let people do it. Basic NPC\'s are required sporadically through out the game as limited control mechanisms. PS is free, it will inevitable grow. There\'s 18000 people registered in the PS database. That\'s huge.
If the Developers focus on the things required to create the economy, instead of gives means to populate everyone wins.
What we need to do instead of bickering. I owe all an appology, is find ways to Help the PS Team.
Moogie... My appolgies... ;) Peace...
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Originally posted by Ald\'Amun Dungeonrunner
Adventuring is an extremely profitable profession, the only reason more people don\'t do it is because it takes so much skill and is so risky...you kill stuff...doesn\'t get much more profitable than murder, sadly enough....you kill an adventurer and you can double your money...if that\'s poor, then I\'d like to see rich...;)
BRAAANNNT *buzz noise* ohhhh sorry... do try again though :(
Unless you are some spoonscape refugee then adventuring is a poor profession \"monsters\" have just about NO items (unless again you come from the realm of hack-n-cast not reality) warriors where poor and constantly in debt to thier king for buying thier very expensive (yet basic) weapons only the merchant class actualy had very much if any money (this rings true in all civilizations)
About the only rich adventuers where generals and they got rich using thier craptastic items as a poor soldier very well for a long time (and looting the corpses of thier enemies for thier armour to sell or upgrade his own)
Oh well it was a good theory based on knight online or something :rolleyes:
EDIT: also you are right Vandel we are born with things we are good at and dont need a teacher to learn them or progress.. trial and error are the best teachings (how did the teacher get so good.. from another teacher? on that line of thought how did the \"first teacher\" learn so much? trial and error of course and if he can do it why cant i?)
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Originally posted by Foresteer
On that line of thought how did the \"first teacher\" learn so much? trial and error of course and if he can do it why cant i?)
Indeed. though I don\'t suspect it\'s going to work out that way.
And portions of the previous post certainly don\'t belong tagged in here... gotta stop writing novels... I\'m running around in circles, and I\'m getting dizzy. Woooohoooo... ;)
Peace... should try and catch some zzz\'s, damn insomnia...
** EDIT ** bump... keep this thread alive... it has some ideas to work out. RP it. get used to reading, \'cuz that\'s what likely going to happen. Lots and Lots of reading.
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I admit that I haven\'t read all of the past five page, just the bits that looked interesting, but this seems like a good place to post this...
Upon brutally murdering a rogue (that attacked me first!) in the Sewers, I was quite devasted to see that I didn\'t get his sword?
Why not? Where did it go? Did he swallow it just before I beat him to death? If so, I\'d like to tear him open to get it!
I could\'ve done with a short-sword, anything\'s better than my (rather hard and stony) fists - and I thought that killing someone with a sword might just have got me on my feet.
On a realism note - I agree that expensive weapons should be rare, but rusty army-cast-offs probably wouldn\'t be too hard to find, and I\'m sure that I could make myself a pretty hefty quarterstaff with my 100+ strength just by attacking a poor old tree with a hatchet.
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I think we need an automated economy that adapts to pricing and other factors to preserve scarcity for powerful weapons, and keep \'entry level\' weapons just barely out of reach of the newbies until they\'ve killed some rats.
A system of adapting weapon drop probability in response to number of characters active in world, would keep an acceptable ratio of weapons to characters.
Similarly, adapting pricing to follow tracked auction or trade prices for weapons would create some economic flavor when you go to merchants. You could even track prices in zone to have different economic impacts in different zones.
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If you didn\'t get his sword, then maybe it\'s because it broke during battle.
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i think we are looking at this all wrong because the fact that no one can yet craft swords or axes and what not only the npcs can so i think that it makes sences the way they have it right now and untill they implement smithing and weapon enchanting it should stay close to the way it is,( im still having a hard time finding a good weapon). you have to kill many things to get a good sword and i dont know about axes because i have never gotten one.
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Originally posted by Telumehtar
Upon brutally murdering a rogue (that attacked me first!) in the Sewers, I was quite devasted to see that I didn\'t get his sword?
Why not? Where did it go? Did he swallow it just before I beat him to death? If so, I\'d like to tear him open to get it!
You are looking at the problem from its wrong side.
Dont ask why you didn\'t got the sword, but how it come that the same rogue, killed thousand of times before, died again and then reapeared where he died.
The fact that you didn\'t got the sword doesn\'t matter at all near the mistery of rogue existance.
Oh well, why do i repeat myself for the \"n\" time...
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
Originally posted by Telumehtar
Upon brutally murdering a rogue (that attacked me first!) in the Sewers, I was quite devasted to see that I didn\'t get his sword?
Why not? Where did it go? Did he swallow it just before I beat him to death? If so, I\'d like to tear him open to get it!
You are looking at the problem from its wrong side.
Dont ask why you didn\'t got the sword, but how it come that the same rogue, killed thousand of times before, died again and then reapeared where he died.
The fact that you didn\'t got the sword doesn\'t matter at all near the mistery of rogue existance.
Oh well, why do i repeat myself for the \"n\" time...
mystery..... \"n\"th.... and Telu\'s observations are valid....
Personally, I think it would be better if humanoids only dropped the weapons they were carrying, and more often than not in a broken state. The only way for a rogue to have a fire longsword in his inventory would be if the rogue hadn\'t yet identified the sword, or if the sword was damaged beyond use.
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Object to Buy Trias Hexas Octas Circles
a pint of good beer 2 tria - - -
a lunch in a tavern 5 tria - - -
leather pants and shirt 25 tria=2 hexa,
a good steel sword 350 tria=35 hexas=7 octas=1 circle, 2 octas
farmer\'s one month salary 250 tria=25 hexas=5 octas=1 circle
healthy, trained pterosaur 45,000 tria=4,500 hexas 2,400=octas=180 circles
This is there money seples a Hexa=10 tria\'s, Octa=50 tria\'s, and a Cricle=250 tria\'s.
Consdering this at this point I think the specle wopans are being underchagered.
A fire stort sword, sould not be colse to the price to a fire long sword. This is true. As this game is more depoved it will have better prices and these prices will change.
Frist they need to devepole the economy before they change the prices. Next they will have to furge how much each itme is worth. Such as food, wpones and other things. Then you would need pleaces to store the itmes such as a bank.
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I thought that a Farmer only made 200 trias per year, not per month?
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If a rouge has a sword in his hand when he attacks and it is not on his body when you loot it then I must assume that it went with him to the death realm, just as my equipment does. Thus, you should never be able to loot anything!!! Of cource that would take a good deal of fun out of the game, so maybe you could have a random chance of droping something when you die. That would explain why rouges drop there swords sometimes and take them with them other times.
I agree with most of the other posters that said rusty/broken weapons should be common and good one should be rare. I also think the the truely magical ones should be unique. Owning a weapon the does 10 times more damage than a good quallity one should practically make you a king or in PS case an Octarch (sp?).
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Just because you find a weapon doesn\'t mean the monster manipulated it or has to be humanoid. I mean, if you slice open a consumer (or whatever that oja monster is called) might you not find a sword in its gullet? Perhaps with a gauntleted hand attached? Could it be that loot is an abstraction not of what the monster actually carries, but what is available in it\'s lair or den that you couldn\'t get until you killed it and tracked it\'s spoor back? Is this any less realistic than camping all the humanoid monsters over and over because they drop the best loot? I\'d like to see more scarcity of weapon drops from any one creature, and more incentive to go after monsters.
If not, then could monsters drop parts more in line with the value of weapons? I mean I sold a 4.05 broadsword for 21.5k the other day. I\'d have to loot trepors for something like 166 hours to get that kind of money. Also, unarmed humanoid creatures should give a lot less pp and loot. If they can\'t afford a weapon, would they really be that rich in loot? They certainly shouldn\'t drop an iron short sword!
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Originally posted by BrotherCaine
I mean, if you slice open a consumer (or whatever that oja monster is called) might you not find a sword in its gullet?
Not really ;) I don\'t know any current monsters that can swallow blades - that\'s why they are so effective against them at the moment, no?
Could it be that loot is an abstraction not of what the monster actually carries, but what is available in it\'s lair or den that you couldn\'t get until you killed it and tracked it\'s spoor back?
Once actual dens will be implemented - right now it would be a good idea to stay away from unrealistic \"suggestions,\" when we\'re all aiming for exactly the opposite.
Is this any less realistic than camping all the humanoid monsters over and over because they drop the best loot?
\"Camping\" may disappear in the future entirely, as the NPC AI evolves. Instead of saying \"This and this isn\'t realistic right now, so why can\'t we do something else unrealistic too?\" try to think along the lines of \"This and this isn\'t realistic, so in addition to changing it, let\'s try something else related in a realistic manner as well.\"
I mean I sold a 4.05 broadsword for 21.5k the other day. I\'d have to loot trepors for something like 166 hours to get that kind of money.
More NPCs and more diverse NPCs will be found in the future, that no doubt will have parts of greater value. But in the meantime, the economy is not only highly player-driven, it\'s a mess (that a character wipe will attempt to fix in the ((near)) future).
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I agree with your statement:
\'Instead of saying \"This and this isn\'t realistic right now, so why can\'t we do something else unrealistic too?\" try to think along the lines of \"This and this isn\'t realistic, so in addition to changing it, let\'s try something else related in a realistic manner as well.\"\'
But disagree that non-humanoid monsters dropping loot is necessarily unrealistic. I mean what happened to the gear of the intrepid adventurer who failed to slay that ulbernaut. Are all monsters finicky about peeling that adventurer out of his armor before eating him? What can be unrealistic is the presentation of said loot.
I do think that if monsters drop weapons they should generally be rusty and/or broken.
Also some sort of justification for the value of monster parts would be good. Hides having value makes sense, other stuff not so much. Maybe when alchemy gets implemented they can be components in preperations. Or perfumes, ala ambergris.
Oh, and a character wipe is not going to solve the 21.5k for a weapon problem. As long as their are skill maxes, people are going to build up massive disposable income over time, and weapons will be valued according to scarcity out of proportion to their in game effect. The only cures for weapon inflation are entropy, currency devaluation, rent or taxes. Basically without economic outflow beyond training (which currently peaks), hyperinflation is a given.
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Good point about the economy at the end of your post.
Originally posted by BrotherCaine
I agree with your statement:
I mean what happened to the gear of the intrepid adventurer who failed to slay that ulbernaut. Are all monsters finicky about peeling that adventurer out of his armor before eating him?
You can sure bet that the armor will be damaged beyond all repair by the time it\'s in something\'s stomach :P Or not beyond repair, but simply not worth the effort - chewing, grinding, swallowing, digesting, can have various interesting effects.
I do think that if monsters drop weapons they should generally be rusty and/or broken.
Damaged/broken weapons aren\'t going to sell for a high enough price to give you what you want, and they\'re certainly not going to come out in a good condition. Moreover, I honestly do not know of any critter that can handle swallowing (large) blades, and survive through it.
Hides having value makes sense, other stuff not so much. Maybe when alchemy gets implemented they can be components in preperations. Or perfumes, ala ambergris.
Or just crafting :) Everything can be used.
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Currently, the thing I find most unrealistic is looting monsters for money... Why would a trepor carry trias around?
Speaking of equipment, I find it strange that adventurers carry their belongings to the Death Realm. In my opinion the equipment should stay in the realm of the living, while the body moved to the dark asilum. People would value life accordingly in Yliakum this way...
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Corpse runs, Yeah Baby!
Bring back the good ol\' days.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
Currently, the thing I find most unrealistic is looting monsters for money... Why would a trepor carry trias around?
Speaking of equipment, I find it strange that adventurers carry their belongings to the Death Realm. In my opinion the equipment should stay in the realm of the living, while the body moved to the dark asilum. People would value life accordingly in Yliakum this way...
If there some sort of banking system, then yes. Otherwise, it would be as inconvient as taking /tells and guildchat out of the game. Keeping your items is unrealistic, but necessary.
If you loose a random item that you have equipped, I\'d be down with that. But not your entire inventory.
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Yes, no one likes to loose all there stuff and be forced to go back to there corpse and collect it. But, it sure adds to the pain of death, and it makes a bit more sense then taking it all with you. And, as a side benifit, fighting in the death realm will have to be hand to hand.
Even with that system, you still don\'t have loose all your stuff because is can be set up so only you are allowed to loot your own corpse. It makes the looting of corpses a bit *unrealistic* but in the PS world it is consistant because you are already not allowed to loot the kills of other players.
If for some wierd reason the Development team does go with an EQ style corpse run system, I would hope that they would add more moster drops. In other words, if I loose all my stuff, the monsters should too. I like the good ol days when every rat dropped an eye, and rat fur. Now that they drop tails, they should drop all three.
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yea, and consumers should drop 1,000 teeth, 2 antena, 6 legs, hides, internal organs, and the remains of whatever they had for lunch, evertime you kill one :P
but a magic forcefield stops other people from picking up the teeth e.t.c. and if you dont \"loot\" it within 26.763 seconds of killing it, laanx spirits the remains away to the land of the magic purple hamsters. :P :P :P
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Originally posted by derwoodly
If for some wierd reason the Development team does go with an EQ style corpse run system, I would hope that they would add more moster drops. In other words, if I loose all my stuff, the monsters should too. I like the good ol days when every rat dropped an eye, and rat fur. Now that they drop tails, they should drop all three.
If you kill the rat by smashing it in the eye, then it won\'t loot an eye.
If you step on its tail or crush it or cut it in half during battle, it won\'t loot a tail.
If it\'s fur is too damaged, then you can\'t loot it as a pelt.
It makes sense that you can only loot some things some of the time.
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That would be good if the system compaired your fighting skill, weapon or spell used and caculated the drops based on some complicated formula, but usually the game just drops one or two items on a master list of drops and does not care weather or not you were using a wet sponge to kill rats or a spell of disintegration.
I don\'t want better looting to increase my coffers, I want to be able to complete a rat tail quest without killing 200 rats just to get 20 rat tails. I also don\'t want to fight a humanoid creature who is weilding a sword and wearing armor and finding not even a scrap of leather armor or a broken sword.
Idealy if I kill with a spell of disintegration there would be nothing to loot, and if I kill with a well placed arrow I should be able to loot everything, but this seems like a long way off in the level of *realism* in games. I would just like to see more attention given to what drops.
If I understand the new loot code, PS is going in the oposite dirrection of what *I* would like to see. I don\'t expect my one opinion to change how PS is done. It is just my hope that I am not the only one who feels this way.
[edit grammer worse than my normal bad grammer]
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Originally posted by Kixie
Well i think weapons should be very hard to get in this game. Weapons should be some of the rarest most precious items in the game. Espcially good ones. Weapons should not be found on monsters, except select humanoid creatures. Weapons should also only be created by smiths. You get good weapons, by finding a good smith, and showering him with money and excelent materials. I feel way too many game put swords and weapons EVERYWHERE. But whatever. It doesnt matter. As i have found out my oppinion doesnt mean much around here.
hey Pick up a rock and it is a weapon
what weapons are you talking about,,.
*edit*
Originally posted by Cyrandir
I think i agree for once with whemmy, though for possibly slightly different reasons. The relative scarcity of weapons in a game llike this would help to downplay the hack-n-slash idea that everyone has about MMORPGs. Almost everyone may have a pockt knife or small dagger, but few people may have a claymore or greatsword. This would help bring emphasis on RP and on working a regular job, instead of being an adventurer who just happens to do something else on the side when monsters are scarce. Also, non-dungeon quests would come into higher usage (i.e. get less ridicule) as people try to accumulate enough resources to create a decent weapon to enter those dungeons. I think this is a good idea and a good step towards creating as realistic an environment as possible.
OMG how boring ..
*edit*
Originally posted by Keitac2000
ok good weapons should be rare and defenatally cool ones should be too, but serously if i only have a 2 inch pocket knife, how in hell am i gonna get that rare glowing bastard sword? i think generic weapons should be farely common, atleast enough so that you can get started with something semi decent
I agree
*edit*
Originally posted by Kixie
you can use that penut knife to kill. it wouldnt take that long to get a sword. there are other ways to get money, to earn materials and get a sword crafted. If you cant do much other than fight, you can always use your penut knife to kill npcs and take thier money. This brings up that fact that battles shouldnt take forever. Battles should be fairly short actually. If your stronger than a rat or beaver, you can kill a beaver in a short time. if 2 people fight with pocket knives they can only physically take 9 to 10 stabs. even in a fairy world where your 10 times the normal strength you still would physically not stand 10 stabs in the gut. I dont know, i like the idea of realistic fighting but i guess some would not as this would radically change idea of the game and it would almost be unrecognizable. But anyways back to the point. It should be very hard to get weapons, but hardly impossible or very lengthy at all. However i am not asking for this to be implemented in cb. i would rather cb be what it is supoosed to be, a tech demo. We should get a feel for combat and good weapons, then the devs should take them away and start making a realistic game.
Yeah there is other ways to get the sword/dagger/Claymore/ Steal it.(aka Grab and run)
[ Your senseless posts are utterly unnecessary, and your double-double-double-posting makes kittens cry. Please try to be useful, or don\'t use the Wishlist. ]
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As about the player death:
As always, i propose the idea which came out with the first information about DR (dig the ps news)
When you die, only your spirit move to DR and body together with all items are left in the world of living where you died. The body and items are protected by DR god aura which don\'t allow to touch it and steal whatever was in the possesion of died person. The body could possibly rot very slowly if nobody take care about it. So the faster you manage to escape from the DR, the better for you.
As many people pointed out in some very old topic, we would have loads of bodies everywhere which you can\'t touch or you die.
The answer is simple. We have cult of Laanx and Talad, so it\'s obvious there should be also cult of DR god. Besides doing all the stuff what worshipers like to do, they would take the bodies from the streets to places where they would be no problem. They have trust of DR god and thus he gave them right to touch the dead bodies. Of course this allow for robbery, but you don\'t want to steal from the God of death, don\'t you? Besides not first better guy from street can have this job.
Once you die, your body, your soul and your iteams are all DR God possesion. But only your soul move to the world of death and body with items is always present in the world of living.
So, obviously when you escape from DR, you dont appear always in the same spot! That is the most silly and unlogical idea ever. And if we have it now, I hope it is only because of programing issues. When you escape DR, you wake up in the place where your body was in the moment you escaped. In many cases it is the place where you died.
It is so very old and so very good idea. And i can\'t look at the half ideas people propose instead.
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
As about the player death:
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So, obviously when you escape from DR, you dont appear always in the same spot! That is the most silly and unlogical idea ever. And if we have it now, I hope it is only because of programing issues. When you escape DR, you wake up in the place where your body was in the moment you escaped. In many cases it is the place where you died.
I think what your saying here is that when you die in game all your equipment stays on a corpse at the spot where you were killed and a spirit avatar of your character is sent to the death realm. Then when your spirit avatar escapes the death realm your characters body would come back to life at the spot your corpse was at.
That would work if when you \"come back to life\" you have at least 50% of your health so you can run away if need be. Even still it could be a bad situation if you are faced with certain death when your corpse comes back to life.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
I think what your saying here is that when you die in game all your equipment stays on a corpse at the spot where you were killed and a spirit avatar of your character is sent to the death realm. Then when your spirit avatar escapes the death realm your characters body would come back to life at the spot your corpse was at.
Exactly.
Originally posted by derwoodly
That would work if when you \"come back to life\" you have at least 50% of your health so you can run away if need be. Even still it could be a bad situation if you are faced with certain death when your corpse comes back to life.
It indeed wouldn\'t be good if you came back to life with almost 0% hp. 50% sounds good in my opinion.
It is true that you can die in very unfortunate place so that everytime you escape from DR, in few seconds of life, you die again ;)
But it is all our fault then, it is important to not overestimate ours skills. But if it happen that we do, then i gues it is good to have friends or find in DR someone who would be willing to help you clear from monsters the are where your body is.
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I think everyone already agrees so whats the point of putting more post up accept making it into a petition so heres my vote yes weapons should be rare
(only read the first page)
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Hello PSers,
here my 2 trias.
I think good weapons should be rare. There ruined weapons of the rare should also be rare. But I think ruined blades should not. I also think that you should be able to loot armer and ruined armer. That said I would be nice to have the skill smiting and repair weapons/ armer so those who practice it can make the ruined ones good again.
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Hi,
from all the ideas to realize a \"Death-System\" i like Nikodemus\' idea most.
First if all it is something different than realized in other Games, as far as I know.
I would suggest to do as the following:
1. You die ;-)
2. Corpse and belongings stay where they are
3. Soul enters DR or something like that
4. Soul has to find a way out of DR
5. Soul respawns at a random place in PS (maybe limit in radius as the PS-world grows)
6. Soul and corps have to reunion
Maybe even the lost of a item should be integrated,
but then i would like to have something like a storage.
(As in real life I don\'t allways have all my belongings with me, do you?)
Just a suggestion!!
Greets
Markus
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Oh my. I\'m being ridiculed exactly 2 years and 1 day after the post was made. That\'s some kind of record right?
Looking back on this thread makes me smile a bit. For one, it\'s always entertaining to look at an old post and recognize exactly 0% of yourself, and realize how you\'ve grown in the meantime. However incoherant my posts may be, I stick by my original point. This is something rare, for half the posts I made in that time period I disagree with highly now. Perhaps this is due to hindsight being 20-20, or all just part of growing up, it\'s still distressing trying to defend actions you\'ve made many days in the past.
But one thing dismays me; half the comments left now 2 years later seem to have little or nothing to do with the topic. I\'m wondering how some of these posts have gone on such a wild tangent. While I\'m thrilled my post is still open after all this time, and still causing sufficient feedback, all these offtopic replies seem highly unnecessary.
On affairs of ruined/weak blades being prevelant in the world of planeshift: I say neigh. While I know not many will agree with my judgment, I think that ALL weapons should be rare. Not just metal ones, nor just powerfull ones. Even a weapon with sufficent portions taken out of them, rusted to a fine ancient dust should be pretty rare to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.
Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am :P
My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort. I know that this mindset of \"Super realistic\" isn\'t acknowleged as a totally positive thing by everyone in the community, but I\'d like PS to at least give it a good college try. I\'ve never seen it done, and having it implemented could be very interesting.
And bushidobull: I love you too. Good luck on the 2 year old insults. Cheers! ;)
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I don\'t agree with the idea of the corpse staying at the place where you died.
What if you aren\'t killed by a monster but fall into a pit or drown somewhere (maybe implemented in the future), die from toxical gases around (maybe?)? Then you either die again and again or are trapped in a place you can\'t get out on your own, havin to ask a GM to help you out. I can already imagine GMs running across all Yliakum rescueing people, so they hdon\'t have time to do the work they were originally supposed to do. Not too good in my eyes.
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Originally posted by Kixie
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to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.
Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am :P
My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
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Interesting experiement. From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can. My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point. However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage. So where can I go? Can I break into the sporting goods store? How about the city dump? If nessasary I could tie a rock to a stick, but really this would be beside the point. It should be more of a suspention of disbelief in the PS world we are striving for, maybe that is what you ment?
Maybe you ment whether or not my character can in the PS world. Steel in the PS world does not seem to be that rare, so beating a hunk of it into a spear point does not sound that hard to me. If steel is rare then a stone tipped spear would work, or a stone axe. When in a fantasy world I expect evert humaniod to have at least a rock tied to a stick to defend themselves with. When I kill them I should be able to use the weapon. Unless, like myself they take it all to the death realm with them.
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Well, this has been an interesting thread to read. I admit it is some what original and would make the game different than others before it, but really who ever played a D&D game and said \"oh, ohhh,oooohhhh! can I please be the farmer this time?\"
I do not play MMORPG to play farmers, bar keeps, charmaids, and any other mundane chore. I play to hack, slash and adventure to my hearts content. I even joined a Medieval Guild and did some real stuff and guess what...they let me use their swords and axes and made them available to me so that we could have fun.
So, if I want life to be hard and boring and mundane I will put in OT at work and collect that \"big pay check.\"
But, to contribute to your post let me add this by way of helping. Have you heard of Militia? Make sure there are ways for people to get rusted hand me downs and mis matched armour and a path to glory!
Plus remember the fact that metallurgy(sp?) was not always around and people went out ala hunter gathers with flint and other rock weapons, bone even. Hmmm a Tefusangs tooth or claw would be handy if equipable. In short if you make \"good weapons\" hard to buy dont leave those of us with bloodlust unsated throw us a bone...literally!
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Agree\'s with Crim.
You can make weapons out of bone if needed, but the PS setting is more indicative of a iron/steel age than a stone age one. They can be expensive, but a newbie character should be able to purchase some sort of weapon either at the begining or after a few hours of killing low level mobs. Otherwise we will all be fighting monks
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Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.
If we wan\'t to be able to take all the stuff of killed by us opponent, we need to solve another problem first. The NPCs can\'t spawn so fast. I believe, completly new system should be developed, where we avoid the bad spawning. Also a system where there will be consequences of killing too many NPC\'s in form of greater lack of them in the future. Something what everybody will feel. Sure it will break some people \"holy\" ^^ right to have fun when they want it, but you have to choose what kind of game you want: RP, or notRP.
But something like that, what after put in game will allow us to fix number of other flaws in the world where we rp.
One such flaw is too common weapons, like it is now. When Veja at the arena is buing hundreds of weapons everyday.
I hope this was closer to the original topic of this thread.
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I just had an idea. The whole point of the thread is to keep things like weapons fairly rare, right?
WEAR AND TEAR IS THE ANSWER!!!
Any weapon, when you hit anything the weapon dulls a bit, yes? And, when it\'s dull, you must sharpen it, yes? A weapon can only be sharpened so many times before it gets really then, yes? (Okay, I\'ll quit with the yes\'s :P ) And then, when it gets REALLY thin, it should break. What do y\'all think?
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Originally posted by Kixie
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to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.
Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am :P
My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
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Interesting experiement. From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can. My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point. However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage. So where can I go?
Actually go anywhere and use just about anything short of a firearm. Making a weapon capable of proficiently giving enough damage to kill someone is amazingly hard to create on your own. If you have killed anything larger than a rodent, you would know this.
Sure you could make a blunt weapon, but I\'d love to see you take down a deer with a mallet. Perhaps you could find a chunk of steel or metal out there sharp enough to cut the skin, but I seriously doubt you\'d be able to craft a handle on it strong enough to keep on after repeated blows.
Making a weapon is SO much harder than I think some of you realize.
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.
But where did the enemies get THEIR weapons? ?(
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.
But where did the enemies get THEIR weapons? ?(
Someone crafted it for them, isn\'t that obvious?
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Sorry Nik off topic again, but it is a interesting subject.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
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Originally posted by Kixie
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to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.
Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am
My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
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Interesting experiement. From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can. My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point. However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage. So where can I go?
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Actually go anywhere and use just about anything short of a firearm. Making a weapon capable of proficiently giving enough damage to kill someone is amazingly hard to create on your own. If you have killed anything larger than a rodent, you would know this.
Sure you could make a blunt weapon, but I\'d love to see you take down a deer with a mallet. Perhaps you could find a chunk of steel or metal out there sharp enough to cut the skin, but I seriously doubt you\'d be able to craft a handle on it strong enough to keep on after repeated blows.
Making a weapon is SO much harder than I think some of you realize.
Actually, few weapons are hand made today that can take a deer down in todays time. In Medieval times deer were not as skittish and could be approached or stalked more effectively. The best weapons are of course projectile weapons ie slings, spears, bows etc...and the comon man and savages of the times all has some basic knowledge of one or more of these skills ie Indian \"D\" bows.
Now: for the challenge. Take any piece of flat metal and grind the edges voila sword/axe...but edges are soft. Heat to cherry red and bang, easier than grinding and quench why? dunno but smith does it eh?(I know, but they might not)
Old smithing is easier too. Get a box(wood) fill with sand drench good and make a form of weapon with wood or even finger or old sword. Smelt iron and pour into the form ancient form of smithing not the bangy bangy all seem to leap to for weapons craft. Not a great weapon or even a Samurai Sword, but no one hit with it in Celtic times complained it was not sufficient to kill them!
Crim
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Crim, have you ever considered how a wooden branch, when the end is whittled down to a point, can kill if thrust through the chest?
No offense buddy, but while GOOD weapons are difficult to make, ANY weapon can kill.
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Actually Defender, that was the point I tried to make earlier and was following up on the other thread of make a weapon for yourself. I appologize that I was unclear as I was rushing and blundered my points. So here is my off thread thought.
1. No, I do not wish to see weapons limited TOO much, it is a game period. Dulling, breaking, better classes of weapons with harder mobs, sure but keep crappy ones for those that want to go swinging a sword. RP is Role Play not Real Play...I have enough real so I Role play.
2. With desire anything can be fashioned into a weapon. (read my first post Defender and you will see I have always agreed with you)
3. Weapons have been around as long as man has struggled and had knowledge that modern man did not have. When making rules about what to have and other such worthy topics remember to think or research the eras in question. I.E. Many young men went to war when clan chiefs or Lords decreed it and had some sense of staying alive, plus war relics. Even the Bible mentions taking what was common tool and turning them into weapons of war.
4. Projectile weapons and traps were very common to most common people and were even thought too lowly for the \"Knight.\" So the basic abilities to fasion \"crude\" weapons was again fairly common.
5. Too many people think of Blacksmiths when they think weapons. True those weapons CAN be, but rarely were, works of art and priceless weapons. But, the smiths commonly fashioned mass amounts of swords as said in my previous post, when a major campain was drawing neigh. So, a person with plenty of wood and metal could fashion some kind of weapon and even mimick the villiage smithy\'s patterns with out knowing why. (if in full view and not worthy of debate as I will grant that not likely, merely plausable ie rebels with a smith on the run etc)
Phew! Great discution by all, thanks Kixie( and no ridicule merely my take on what I have done and know about from various sources)
Crim
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Way to go, Crimthann!
Concerning #5:
Blacksmiths didn\'t do everything. In fact, blacksmiths worked mostly on tools, not weapons. Armorsmiths (also known as armorers) worked on a Knights armor, and Sword- and weapon-smiths worked entirely on artisan-- you guessed it-- swords and weapons.
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Aargh!! I\'m going insane here. Why is it that everyone and their mentally disabled cousin can get a /10 uber short sword of virility but getting an NPC to drop an axe takes divine intervention? I have been hunting for any axe stronger than /3.5 for over a MONTH. The ones that do get taken are then sold to the two main merchant guilds (you know who you are) and then resold for prices that only someone who already has those weapons can afford.
Now to the meat of my wish concerning the rarity of weapons. I don\'t care how rare they are, but they should all be rare EQUALLY. Not 25 guys that drop every type of powerful sword in existence and 2 that drop powerful axes. I pray for the day players can make their own powerful weapons because that will alleviate this shortfall.
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The problems when the players can make their own advanced weapons is that they would tend to overcharge, since the materials needed would be hard to get, the chances of successfully making the items would be slim, the skills are hard to level up, etc... Not to mention the demand would be greater due to the fact that not everyone wants to make one, since buying saves them the effort and such.
The economy in PS might be affected badly when crafting runs out of control. Time to have a tight control by the craftsmen guild.
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I think Kixie missed my point about a dozzen posts ago. So I will restate it. Wheather or not I can make a weapon in modern times should have nothing to do with weather or not my character in the PS world can get one. As far as I can tell, PS is set some where in the iron age. Metal is expensive, but available to even peasants in the form of plows and nails.
I believe Kixe propose making adverage swords and axes rare and having most fight with hands and feet. I thought this to be a little limiting and also begging the question, how come they don\'t pick up a pitch fork or some thing to fight with. I also believe Kixe does not think an improvised farm tool can kill as it would be too weak to stand up to heavy abuse. To this arguement, I would say some farm tools are designed to kill. As tough as it might be to craft a reliable killing weapon it would be even harder to slaughter your livestock bare handed, and even harder to butcher them without even a sharpened jaw bone to help you.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY! It shoud be the quality of the weapon that is rare. Fine well pollished steel weapons should be rare. And Enchanted weapons should be almost unheard of.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
I think Kixie missed my point about a dozzen posts ago. So I will restate it. Wheather or not I can make a weapon in modern times should have nothing to do with weather or not my character in the PS world can get one. As far as I can tell, PS is set some where in the iron age.
No, it seems you MISSED my point, which I posted a dozen times.
Being able to craft a weapon yourself is extremely relevant, seeing as we are in a day and age where finding metal or other very sharp surfaces is extremely common. However, the point to my experiment was the fact that even though you may find a vast library of implements to use, you would still find it extremely hard to make a weapon due to the fact that anything you craft would most likely fall apart in less than a minute of beating.
Sure, you may be able to chop a guy in half, but I doubt it would last less than 30 seconds of beating. That\'s the whole difference between a weapon of any quality, and a low quality mass of melted steel. That\'s why those japanese katanas you get from the flea market cost 30 bucks, while the authentic ones made from actual weapon smiths cost over $1000.
Prevelant amounts of ore and metal wasn\'t the point to my thread. The difficulty of making a real weapon that could withstand the stress of actual killing was the real reason I made this thread.