Traveling Time gets old fast.

[Harwen]

Traveling should be done realisticly, this isn\'t going to be EQ, or SOW or .hack where you can buzz around from place to place.

1) What\'s the fun in a quest if it isn\'t a little hard.

2) Who said that the trees would look the same? I hardly doubt that the trees will be sparse, or even too similar to that, don\'t expect the world to be all plains...there is a such thing as mini-deserts due to mountains or large hills, valleys, jungles (with vines), larger, more spectacular trees, small villages of people along the way, not to mention monsters and other hazards which will make a 2-day trek all that much more exciting.

Go hiking one day, and tell me if it is boring. The real world foot-based travel isnt boring in the least, (without the mobs) so why does a fake world have to be boring?

3) Flying....certainly not a common form of flying unless somone puts up a taxi service (which would rock to see two-three levels shrouded in mist at once). And of course the amount for fare would be extravagant, not like a real taxi is cheap.

So, for the sake of another PvP Pk forum is this enough? Can you see how exciting travel can be?

[Rageburst]

It\'s clear that teleporting between towns is not very fun in the roleplaying environment sense. There would be more appreciation for the more realistic type of transportation without it.

I think the problem in EQ is that other transports are simply inefficient since you have teleportation. It\'s no fun taking a boat when you can teleport instead. The solution is to provide a variety of transport means ranging from better-than-nothing to very fast... depending on how much a person is willing to pay.

For example:
- Bus-like animals: An enormous beast that quickly drags a cargo full of people. This is a cheap way of travelling fast.... and you can talk to people for fun while travelling. Really poor people can try to balance themselves on top of the animal while it is travelling.

- Mountable pets: These can vary from somewhat slow heavily armored tank-like pets to very fast pets. The people with slow pets should probably take the bus-like animal instead... maybe have the beast go on too.

-  Expensive transports: A few giants flying creatures to carry a large box full of people. This is more expensive, but it is very fast so you can travel to another town within a few minutes.

- God-like flight: Remember in Morrowind where you can use a shrine in Vivec that gives you a day of really fast levitation? Maybe a person can pay an npc to bless them with really fast flight for a certain duration.

[Harwen]

I\'m sorry maybe I am not being clear enough, PS isn\'t like EQ...

Please note that it would be very stupid of some one to make the space in between cites a sparse, boring wasteland that you were forced to walk about....Please take into consideration a single shred of adventure? It will be fun and not boring. I have faith, please join me?

[derwoodly]

Fanomatic2000 I did read the post on teleportation that you are talking about.  That?s why I posted.  

From some of the posts it seems some of posters think that traveling will be like hiking, or going to grandmas.  The first time you do it that might be the case.  The 100th time it will not be so fun.  One digital pine tree looks like the next digital pine tree because it is the same pixels!  If  PS makes make the world so small that it takes only 30 minutes to cross it then after month or so the average player will have covered every square inch of surface.  Heck it will not be much bigger than it is now.  Where will you put the monsters? In town?

WAIT, don?t assume I am for teleporting!  I never said teleporting was the only option.  My main motive for posting was to see what everyone thought.

[Davis]

Ok, lets think real life here.
Airplanes get you all over the place! Like those flying thingies in ps right? Well, the flying thingies aren\'t as fast... 1:49... omg...
Anyway, in ancient times, faraway places were simply inaccessable. The game doesn\'t have to have teleporters; faraway places should simply be ridiculously hard to access. That\'s my opinion. Maybe it\'ll change when I get some sleep....

[Davis]

Anyway, like I was saying, its not like the only blacksmith will be in so-and-so city or something, again, you have to think real life. In an isolated place, everything they need would have to be right there (not that everything should be isolated, but whatever). If you want something specialized, though, you will have to travel a while, and some places will be richer than others (unless someone brings a lot of money). When in doubt, look to the real world. 1:54... I\'m gonna go post something.

[Wedge]

Hike... going to grandmas... what???

Anyway, now that I think about it, inbetween areas would be a cool place to put bits of randomness.  Mostly NPC stuff, like a little camp of NPCs, wandering merchants, things that could bring about unexpected quests and oppurunities.  There shouldn\'t really be any place in the world that isn\'t anything.  If an area exists soley for walking from one place to another, well... then it shouldn\'t exist, that is pointless.  I was pry gonna say more, but Big-O is on in a few minutes, so I gotta go!.... holy crap an \"All Your Base Are Belong To Us\" remix of Zero Wing, just came on... man that\'s hilarious!  Um yeah Big-O... bye.

[Davis]

That was fast.
Yeah, what I said, or maybe not. Anyway, I agree with you. I think. Yeah, definately. I agree entirely. They did something like that sort of in Arcanum. Anybody play Arcanum? You should.

[derwoodly]

What I meant by Grandma?s house or hiking is that Hiking or going to grandma?s house (depending on the family) is an event that is not done every day.  You pack up a book and a game boy and the two hour trip to grandmas house is not that bad. Even an all day hike  can be fun.

Traveling in a MMORPG is not that fun!  Sure if have not been there before it is, but most of the time it is something you have to do to in order to group with people, or sell stuff.

Hope that makes it clearer.

[Davis]

Well, the selling stuff I addressed. Think real life. There are walmarts everywhere. It doesn\'t make sense to have to drive 2 hours to buy groceries, so there are stores all over.

[paxx]

To be honest, when it comes down to it, I would love the game to have no teleporters, no Rez, and for a top end character to not have much more HP then a newbie player ?the top end guy is only better at avoiding damage?

But that is not how this will be.

To put into perspective, think of your selves as walking everywhere. (in real life).

Now think that you had a back pack that let you hold up to 90 pounds of crap and not affect you much.

Now, some friends of yours call you (send a tell) saying that they are getting together in a few minutes to go to the water park for some fun (dungeon for pillaging)  the water park is 20 miles away (realistic distance in PS).

Now, you have a choice?walk/jog that distance. And it will take about 3-6 hours, and by the time you get there?your friends are already tired and going home to sleep.

Now also introduce the fact that there are things ?on your way to the water park? that are trying to kill you?and many of them can, at will.

So as you are almost there?you get teleported back to your starting point ?you got killed? so it might take you 10 or 15 trips?or you have to tag on with a group of people all going in the same direction, for protection,  and just waiting on that to happen may take a while, not to mention the security is not guaranteed.

In essence, do the ?no teleport people?  really want to play for hours, just to get to the place you want to play?

This is very hard for those who have not played MMORPGS for a while, to understand, but for people who enjoy getting to play with real life friends (or groups that speak the same real life language) we need some rapid transit. In essence I am of the feeling that major point (until you get into high end stuff) in the game should be accessible in 30 minutes. It might mean 4 or 5 transfers, but it should be there. And at worst 45 minutes.

For the high end stuff?I think societal evolution should be in play. You want to be able to get there fast?pay for a teleporter, or a guild office with a teleporter in that location. Guild members and allies use it for free, others for a fee, and enemies or allies of enemies don?t use it at all. Guilds set the fee.

Of course they would need to pay for upkeep, and pay for every new place that can go to it or from it?but clever planers will know how to get to where it best fills their needs.

And in such a way, guilds can have large fortifications in really remote areas, and still be able to get to the main cities with little difficulty?.

Now constructing that fort in the middle of nowhere is another matter completely.

[Fanomatic2000]

You didn\'t mention the flying creatures Paxx. Only that walking/jogging should take 3-6 hours.
So if your friends is at the other side of the world I assume he is a high-level player, and therefore would own a flying creature or some other person in the team owns a flying creature.
Instead of walking through the world your buddies can get you with the flying creature which wouldn\'t take painfully long time.
If there is random events along the way like huge monsters that are dangerous for both high and lowlevlers. Perhaps you find secret passages along the way that will lead you to a great adventure? Perhaps you meet both friends and foes along the way, a newbuilt house with a friendly or fiendish inhabitant who wants you to stay for dinner (if the food happen to be you is another thing ) And all those campfires you can sit around and tell stories.
Sure, I know that there is a lot of players out there who thinks this is unreal tournament or EQ, and fail to realise that this is a MMORPG and is more about feeling and story than slashing the most monsters.
Half-life 2 is on its way, just have patience

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
And all those campfires you can sit around and tell stories.

Planeshift is not Furcadia.  If you want a graphical chat prgoram with little emphasis on combat, magic, exploration, or adventuring I would recomend America Online  (Edit: or Molecular Blue)

Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
Sure, I know that there is a lot of players out there who thinks this is... EQ, and fail to realise that this is a MMORPG

Did I miss something here?

[Xalthar]

Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
Sure, I know that there is a lot of players out there who thinks this is unreal tournament or EQ, and fail to realise that this is a MMORPG and is more about feeling and story than slashing the most monsters.

You don\'t sound like you\'ve ever been near a mmorpg.. The people who would actually like sitting around a grafical campfire roasting imaginary sausages, with friends who could disappear in to wide air any minute, are few indeed... I don\'t believe that this game will focus 100% on roleplaying, so the possibility of this game actually becoming anything like that (boring that is) is hopefully extremely low...

[paxx]

Random events goes against the persistent world concept?except if you are talking random in the sense of?well I at low power just happened to come across a dragon crossing the road as he decided he was hungry.


As far as movement, the flying creatures are currently not in and we are still not sure how they will be implemented, as a generic bus (as the horses in DAOC ) or independent movement. And if we truly animate all of this then we need to go with a very effective LOD system. And we will have that eventually, but until we have Arial combat in a meaningful way it is not going to happen.

But supposing you have flight?well then you need to put your flying creature in a stall, and then move out to where ever it is you are going (unless you want your flyer to be eaten when you get back), not to mention that flyers will not be cheap.

I guess what I am stating is, are you willing to fun/fly/climb for 3 hours to get from place to place. In the example I gave of 20 miles, was a realistic distance, I was not even speaking of changing levels and such?or once we get to the labyrinth?in all the mmorpg?s I have played, I usually spent the first trip on foot (doing it till I figured out how) and then used the rapid form?well in EQ I had gone from Freeport to Quanos and back at least 20 times (No SoW) and that was dedicating some serious time (around 2 hours or more, as long as I did not die)

I really do not think I as an experienced player of MMORPGs would be able to tolerate that again.  

As far as secrete passages :-)?in todays internet age, a mmorpg has no secrete passages, only secrete to the people who have not looked online for them.

I figure that before we are in ?beta? most of the maps will already be online?with secrete passages included.

I am not trying to douse your thoughts of what a MMORPG should be, only that you need to really think of what one would be in a huge world and no rapid transit, not to mention starting towns far apart from each other.

Now I do not want commerce to be driven in rapid transit, but small stuff?oh,ya. I am already burnt out on it from EQ and DAOC, I won?t have it here or in any new game I play.

Now it might be rapid only to select places and in a convoluted way?but it will be rapid.