Traveling Time gets old fast.

[Grakrim]

Originally posted by paxx
I guess what I am stating is, are you willing to fun/fly/climb for 3 hours to get from place to place. In the example I gave of 20 miles, was a realistic distance, I was not even speaking of changing levels and such?or once we get to the labyrinth?in all the mmorpg?s I have played, I usually spent the first trip on foot (doing it till I figured out how) and then used the rapid form?well in EQ I had gone from Freeport to Quanos and back at least 20 times (No SoW) and that was dedicating some serious time (around 2 hours or more, as long as I did not die)

I really do not think I as an experienced player of MMORPGs would be able to tolerate that again.  

I am also an experienced player of MMORPGs, and I recall the Freeport <-> Qeynos journey quite well.  As do I remember the GFay <-> Steamfont, going through that damed LFay... I hate Brownies...

As for your question, yes, I wouldn\'t mind a 3-hour journey.  Some of my fondest memories in MMORPGs are the times I decided to walk instead of tele, even when someone offered to pay the toll for me.  Of course, it just so happened alot of those types of adventures occured at a low-level, and, naturally, I got way in over my head (especially as a Gnomish Wizard, not exactly soloing material).

Perhaps those opposed to teleportation are a bit extreme, but I definatly don\'t want teleportation to be an everyday occurance, if it indeed was possible.  A balance needs to be found, how do we restrict teleportation while still making it possible?  Too much restriction and those players who can teleport won\'t see it as a practical buisness venture, not enough, and no-one will walk...

Considering wizardy-type characters will be responsible for teleportation, the spell should require some difficult-to-acquire spell components?  Of course, some of these components should only be available in the general area of your teleportation target.  Another type of restriction we could enforce would be a relative inaccuracy of the teleportation spell.  The final and best restriction could be no-group teleporting.  Each teleport must be made individually, thereby preventing teleports to be used as \"buses\".

Say you cast \"Teleportation - Hydlaa\".  In order to cast this spell you need a rare stone you found in a cave near Hydlaa.  Also, once you cast the spell, the target could be transported anywhere within, say, 1 or 2 KM of Hydlaa.

[Wedge]

Am I missing something here?  Is there some inherit reason the actual terrain amount of the world must be huge?   If the world is going to be really big, but most of it is going to be pointless space to walk over, then why should that space exist at all?

[Evanchild]

for users to build on.

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by Wedge
Am I missing something here?  Is there some inherit reason the actual terrain amount of the world must be huge?   If the world is going to be really big, but most of it is going to be pointless space to walk over, then why should that space exist at all?

What does the first letter of MMORPG stand for Wedge?

[derwoodly]

Wedge,

The empty space is not truly empty space.  

In between the cities you wil have forest, deserts, lakes and mountains.  If the world is made so it takes only 30 minutes to get from one side to the other every thing will be stacked on top of each other.  If you would like to see how this works Try Blademistriss.  

Paxx,
I would like to play the MMORPG that you have in your head.  Low hitpoits, high skill, PvP, no teleporting.  I invision a game where it is simply too dangerous for a lone individual to travel by themselves.  Healing should be a lot slower as well.  Priests should not be able to rez you instantly.  A rez should take a full day to work.  If your character dies at low level you should just have to make a new one.  However, I don\'t know if it would sell.

[Abemore]

Just keep making it more real until we have a truly alternate reality populated with fantasy elements.
I can\'t wait till \"The Thirteenth Floor\" becomes a reality.  I hope I get to see it in my lifetime.

[Wedge]

What does the first letter of MMORPG stand for Wedge?

Massive is a reference too the number of players in the game, i.e. hundreds and thousands as opposed too tens at most in FPS games and such.  

Forests, deserts, and blah blah can BE empty space.  If they have no level design and are basically open easily navigable expanses, that is empty space.  Instead of that, you could make smaller areas, that are designed with multiple risk-reward based paths, meaning that the shorter routes are more dangerous.  So the stronger you are in the game, the quicker you can travel around.  That way the areas keep variety over time as you are able to explore the different paths, and by the time you can take the hardest paths easily, the time bonus gained from taking these routes makes the requirement of travelling overland not such a hassle anymore.

[derwoodly]

What MMORPGs have you played Wedge?

 Here is how I imagine traveling would work in Wedges MMORPG.  My Kran baker character has to get to Market in Marketville with his pies.  I can travel the safe path wich will take about 30 minutes, but the pies for the bake me a pie quest will be cold.  But if I take the dangerous path it will only be 5 minutes.

I want the pies to be hot for the quest so I take the Dangerous path.  2 minutes into the trip I run into the One eyed purple flying Kran eater (PKE).  This is a very strong monster but it is not real fast. So I run down the road yelling help help.  1 minute later I run into a group of powerful warriors who are fighting a group of bandits that usally mug travelers on the dangerous path.  They take one look at the 30 foot long PKE and start running for the market away from the PKE.  Now all of us, Warriors, bandits, and PKE are running down the road. The bandits are stabbing the warriors in the back as they run to the market.   1 minute later we run into another group who are fighting the Black knight of Death and it begins attacking as well. One minute later we all arrive at the market and the high level monsters begin killing everyone at the market.

NOW, that dangerous path is not so dangerous because all of the mobs have been killed by guards, and every one travels it untill the monsters all respawn.  This works so well that it becomes common practice for a fast character to \"run the gauntlet\" once a day to clear the dangerous path so the low levels can travel it!

Wedge, I hope you can see my point.  I am not trying to single you out.  You asked a question about why there has to be empty space, and I am just trying to give you some perspective on it.  With mosters arround every corner I think the game will have a Warcraft III feel.  A mountain you can climb in 2 minutes is not much a mountain is it?

[Xandria]

ROFL!  

Oh my, I got such a kick out of reading that, thanks derwoodly!  


\"One eyed purple flying Kran eater\" - very imaginitive

[paxx]

Yes, Trains are something we have not spoken about, and we will see if we can have a few in CB :-).

But all in all it is not about empty content, it is about content for many different purposes. An area that is for farming and or animal grazing, herb collecting, is not going to be infested with uber demons and little river goblins, it might have a few river goblins. But for most people the place has no use other then to pass.

It is kind of like mining towns. You drive right pass them and noone cares or knows about them other then miners.


I would like an efficient use of space, but at the moment the grandiose factions of the dev team are winning out.

I think having a place about the size of the marrowwind area would be ok to start, but we will be about 9 times the size I think.

As far as teleport system, some regulations should exist and a changing price/ or quick task for a teleport might be the right thing?but in the end I think this game should be playable in 2-4 hour chunks. And if that is not enough to get to where you are going and completing one stage of an average quest, something is wrong.

[Vengeance]

What is bad are big *empty* areas, not just big areas.  Hopefully we can populate the world such that there is much to see and do between point A and point B, so you don\'t even really think of them as Point A and Point B.

This doesn\'t help when your friends are somewhere and you want to go hunt with them, however.  In those cases, exploration isn\'t the main objective but companionship--and we certainly want PS to promote companionship.

Perhaps we need a spell that will summon someone to you, cast by a group of 5 or more, or something like that.

Just a thought,
V

[derwoodly]

Sounds good Vengeance.

Thanks Xandria, but I had help, it is a song...

hummm, hummm

It was a one eyed one horned flyin\' purple people eater playing rock-n-roll music out of the horn in his head!

dit dit dit do dit dit dit do dit dit dit de...

[Wedge]

I want the pies to be hot for the quest so I take the Dangerous path. 2 minutes into the trip I run into the One eyed purple flying Kran eater (PKE). This is a very strong monster but it is not real fast. So I run down the road yelling help help. 1 minute later I run into a group of powerful warriors who are fighting a group of bandits that usally mug travelers on the dangerous path. They take one look at the 30 foot long PKE and start running for the market away from the PKE. Now all of us, Warriors, bandits, and PKE are running down the road. The bandits are stabbing the warriors in the back as they run to the market. 1 minute later we run into another group who are fighting the Black knight of Death and it begins attacking as well. One minute later we all arrive at the market and the high level monsters begin killing everyone at the market.

NOW, that dangerous path is not so dangerous because all of the mobs have been killed by guards, and every one travels it untill the monsters all respawn. This works so well that it becomes common practice for a fast character to \"run the gauntlet\" once a day to clear the dangerous path so the low levels can travel it!

 

What the hell are you talking about?  That\'s a hypothetical sitation based on other MMO games gameplay and design.  There are soooo many ways something like that could be prevented, if it were even possible in the first place, I don\'t even need to go into it.

[edit]
But now that I think about it, I will mention a great way around it.  By some means or another, any person going that path is forced into a battle, alone... UNLESS they are in a party, in which case the party may fight the battle together.  This way parties of weaker characters can take quicker routes as well, and I\'m always for ways to encourage teamwork.  If you had good friends or a bit of money, you could also have stronger members lead weaker folk through the path.  Either way it\'s all logical and encouraging to the social aspect of the game.
[/edit]

Ummm yeah the group porting is a good idea, it should be a spell only usable once  a day or something too.  That way it could help out with the issues involved of getting a party together at a distant place at the same time, but wouldn\'t be a common method of travel.

[paxx]

Originally posted by Vengeance

Perhaps we need a spell that will summon someone to you, cast by a group of 5 or more, or something like that.

Can we call it the ?Red Rover? spell?




*  As paxxs? memories of kindergarten seep through and  he sings ?red rover red rover, send Vengeance right over? ?man I find that truly disturbing.

Can we call it the ?Red Rover? spell? *As paxxs? memories of kindergarten seep through and  he sings ?red rover red rover, send Vengeance right over? ?man I find that truly disturbing.  

[Edit] the thing that I was thinking of my days in kindergarten I find disturbing, not the spell.

[Davis]

The Red Rover spell is great idea, but I don\'t know if we should call it that...  
In MTG, cards have playtest names until the flavor department gievs them a real name. So, lets just call it the Red Rover spell until it\'s implemented.
I like the idea that it is impossible for someone to teleport just by himself or by having his friend help out. Maybe each member should have to have something given by the person, to prevent the guy\'s friend from simply recruiting for the spell.