weapons are rare.

[Kixie]

Oh my. I\'m being ridiculed exactly 2 years and 1 day after the post was made. That\'s some kind of record right?

Looking back on this thread makes me smile a bit. For one, it\'s always entertaining to look at an old post and recognize exactly 0% of yourself, and realize how you\'ve grown in the meantime. However incoherant my posts may be, I stick by my original point. This is something rare, for half the posts I made in that time period I disagree with highly now. Perhaps this is due to hindsight being 20-20, or all just part of growing up, it\'s still distressing trying to defend actions you\'ve made many days in the past.

But one thing dismays me; half the comments left now 2 years later seem to have little or nothing to do with the topic. I\'m wondering how some of these posts have gone on such a wild tangent. While I\'m thrilled my post is still open after all this time, and still causing sufficient feedback, all these offtopic replies seem highly unnecessary.


On affairs of ruined/weak blades being prevelant in the world of planeshift: I say neigh. While I know not many will agree with my judgment, I think that ALL weapons should be rare. Not just metal ones, nor just powerfull ones. Even a weapon with sufficent portions taken out of them, rusted to a fine ancient dust should be pretty rare to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.

Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am

My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort. I know that this mindset of \"Super realistic\" isn\'t acknowleged as a totally positive thing by everyone in the community, but I\'d like PS to at least give it a good college try. I\'ve never seen it done, and having it implemented could be very interesting.

And bushidobull: I love you too. Good luck on the 2 year old insults. Cheers!

[Rolf Blacksmith]

I don\'t agree with the idea of the corpse staying at the place where you died.

What if you aren\'t killed by a monster but fall into a pit or drown somewhere (maybe implemented in the future), die from toxical gases around (maybe?)? Then you either die again and again or are trapped in a place you can\'t get out on your own, havin to ask a GM to help you out. I can already imagine GMs running across all Yliakum rescueing people, so they hdon\'t have time to do the work they were originally supposed to do. Not too good in my eyes.

[derwoodly]

Originally posted by Kixie
...
to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.

Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am

My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
...

Interesting experiement.  From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can.  My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point.  However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage.  So where can I go? Can I break into the sporting goods store? How about the city dump?  If nessasary I could tie a rock to a stick, but really this would be beside the point.  It should be more of a suspention of disbelief in the PS world we are striving for, maybe that is what you ment?

Maybe you ment whether or not my character can in the PS world. Steel in the PS world does not seem to be that rare, so beating a hunk of it into a spear point does not sound that hard to me.  If steel is rare then a stone tipped spear would work, or a stone axe.  When in a fantasy world I expect evert humaniod to have at least a rock tied to a stick to defend themselves with.  When I kill them I should be able to use the weapon.  Unless, like myself they take it all to the death realm with them.

[Crimthann]

Well, this has been an interesting thread to read.  I admit it is some what original and would make the game different than others before it, but really who ever played a D&D game and said \"oh, ohhh,oooohhhh! can I please be the farmer this time?\"
      I do not play MMORPG to play farmers, bar keeps, charmaids, and any other mundane chore.  I play to hack, slash and adventure to my hearts content.  I even joined a Medieval Guild and did some real stuff and guess what...they let me use their swords and axes and made them available to me so that we could have fun.  
      So, if I want life to be hard and boring and mundane I will put in OT at work and collect that \"big pay check.\"
      But, to contribute to your post let me add this by way of helping.  Have you heard of Militia? Make sure there are ways for people to get  rusted hand me downs  and mis matched armour and a path to glory!
  Plus remember the fact that metallurgy(sp?) was not always around and people went out ala hunter gathers with flint and other rock weapons, bone even.  Hmmm a Tefusangs tooth or claw would be handy if equipable.  In short if you make \"good weapons\" hard to buy dont leave those of us with bloodlust unsated throw us a bone...literally!

[derwoodly]

Agree\'s with Crim.

You can make weapons out of bone if needed, but the PS setting is more indicative of a iron/steel age than a stone age one.  They can be expensive, but a newbie character should be able to purchase some sort of weapon either at the begining or after a few hours of killing low level mobs.  Otherwise we will all be fighting monks

[Nikodemus]

Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.
If we wan\'t to be able to take all the stuff of killed by us opponent, we need to solve another problem first. The NPCs can\'t spawn so fast. I believe, completly new system should be developed, where we avoid the bad spawning. Also a system where there will be consequences of killing too many NPC\'s in form of greater lack of them in the future. Something what everybody will feel. Sure it will break some people \"holy\" ^^ right to have fun when they want it, but you have to choose what kind of game you want: RP, or notRP.
But something like that, what after put in game will allow us to fix number of other flaws in the world where we rp.

One such flaw is too common weapons, like it is now. When Veja at the arena is buing hundreds of weapons everyday.

I hope this was closer to the original topic of this thread.

[defender43]

I just had an idea. The whole point of the thread is to keep things like weapons fairly rare, right?

WEAR AND TEAR IS THE ANSWER!!!

Any weapon, when you hit anything the weapon dulls a bit, yes? And, when it\'s dull, you must sharpen it, yes? A weapon can only be sharpened so many times before it gets really then, yes? (Okay, I\'ll quit with the yes\'s   ) And then, when it gets REALLY thin, it should break. What do y\'all think?

[Kixie]

Originally posted by derwoodly

Originally posted by Kixie
...
to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.

Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am

My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
...

Interesting experiement.  From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can.  My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point.  However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage.  So where can I go?

Actually go anywhere and use just about anything short of a firearm. Making a weapon capable of proficiently giving enough damage to kill someone is amazingly hard to create on your own. If you have killed anything larger than a rodent, you would know this.

Sure you could make a blunt weapon, but I\'d love to see you take down a deer with a mallet. Perhaps you could find a chunk of steel or metal out there sharp enough to cut the skin, but I seriously doubt you\'d be able to craft a handle on it strong enough to keep on after repeated blows.

Making a weapon is SO much harder than I think some of you realize.

Originally posted by Nikodemus
Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.

But where did the enemies get THEIR weapons?  ?(

[Nikodemus]

Originally posted by Kixie

Originally posted by Nikodemus
Time for more on topic post.
I believe, the main reason why weapons are very very common, is because we gain them after we kill people (inteligent humanoid NPCs). Well true, not always, but we usually do. Generally in real world, it is completly normal that after you kill someone, you can take that person stuff.
Unfortunatelly, virtual worlds (including PS, but not that much) don\'t have much to do with reality. I\'m all for doing it more realistic thus more rp, but doing it wise and in the right, planed order.

But where did the enemies get THEIR weapons?  ?(

Someone crafted it for them, isn\'t that obvious?

[Crimthann]

Sorry Nik off topic again, but it is a interesting subject.


Quote:
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Originally posted by derwoodly

Quote:
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Originally posted by Kixie
...
to find. To make my case I would like to challenge anyone willing to take the challenge.

Go outside, and to the best of your abilities make a weapon out of anything you can find. If you think you could actually kill someone with it, you\'re a better craftsmen than I am  

My point to that random tangent? It\'s doubtful many people could build a deadly weapon without a background in crafting of some sort.
...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Interesting experiement. From a modern day perspective I think I can answer yes, I can. My first thought would be to go into the garage and get a rake, shovel, or anyother garden tool and bend, break, grind the metal end into a point. However you might take offence saying that I cheeted and can not use items in a garage. So where can I go?

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Actually go anywhere and use just about anything short of a firearm. Making a weapon capable of proficiently giving enough damage to kill someone is amazingly hard to create on your own. If you have killed anything larger than a rodent, you would know this.

Sure you could make a blunt weapon, but I\'d love to see you take down a deer with a mallet. Perhaps you could find a chunk of steel or metal out there sharp enough to cut the skin, but I seriously doubt you\'d be able to craft a handle on it strong enough to keep on after repeated blows.

Making a weapon is SO much harder than I think some of you realize.

Actually, few weapons are hand made today that can take a deer down in todays time.  In Medieval times deer were not as skittish and could be approached or stalked more effectively.  The best weapons are of course projectile weapons ie slings, spears, bows etc...and the comon man and savages of the times all has some basic knowledge of one or more of these skills ie Indian \"D\" bows.

Now: for the challenge.  Take any piece of flat metal and grind the edges voila sword/axe...but edges are soft.  Heat to cherry red and bang, easier than grinding and quench why? dunno but smith does it eh?(I know, but they might not)
Old smithing is easier too.  Get a box(wood) fill with sand drench good and make a form of weapon with wood or even finger or old sword.  Smelt iron and pour into the form ancient form of smithing not the bangy bangy all seem to leap to for weapons craft.  Not a great weapon or even a Samurai Sword, but no one hit with it in Celtic times complained it was not sufficient to kill them!

Crim

[defender43]

Crim, have you ever considered how a wooden branch, when the end is whittled down to a point, can kill if thrust through the chest?

No offense buddy, but while GOOD weapons are difficult to make, ANY weapon can kill.

[Crimthann]

Actually Defender, that was the point I tried to make earlier and was following up on the other thread of make a weapon for yourself.  I appologize that I was unclear as I was rushing and blundered my points.  So here is my off thread thought.

1.  No, I do not wish to see weapons limited TOO much, it is a game period.  Dulling, breaking, better classes of weapons with harder mobs, sure but keep crappy ones for those that want to go swinging a sword.  RP is Role Play not Real Play...I have enough real so I Role play.

2.  With desire anything can be fashioned into a    weapon. (read my first post Defender and you will see I have always agreed with you)

3.  Weapons have been around as long as man has struggled and had knowledge that modern man did not have.  When making rules about what to have and other such worthy topics remember to think or research the eras in question.  I.E.  Many young men went to war when clan chiefs or Lords decreed it and had some sense of staying alive, plus war relics.  Even the Bible mentions taking what was common tool and turning them into weapons of war.  

4.  Projectile weapons and traps were very common to most common people and were even thought too lowly for the \"Knight.\"  So the basic abilities to fasion \"crude\" weapons was again fairly common.

5.  Too many people think of Blacksmiths when they think weapons.  True those weapons CAN be, but rarely were, works of art and priceless weapons.  But, the smiths commonly fashioned mass amounts of swords as said in my previous post, when a major campain was drawing neigh.  So, a person with plenty of wood and metal could fashion some kind of weapon and even mimick the villiage smithy\'s patterns with out knowing why. (if in full view and not worthy of debate as I will grant that not likely, merely plausable ie rebels with a smith on the run etc)

Phew!  Great discution by all, thanks Kixie( and no ridicule merely my take on what I have done and know about from various sources)

Crim

[defender43]

Way to go, Crimthann!

Concerning #5:

Blacksmiths didn\'t do everything. In fact, blacksmiths worked mostly on tools, not weapons. Armorsmiths (also known as armorers) worked on a Knights armor, and Sword- and weapon-smiths worked entirely on artisan-- you guessed it-- swords and weapons.

[Goldir]

Aargh!!  I\'m going insane here.  Why is it that everyone and their mentally disabled cousin can get a /10 uber short sword of virility but getting an NPC to drop an axe takes divine intervention?  I have been hunting for any axe stronger than /3.5 for over a MONTH. The ones that do get taken are then sold to the two main merchant guilds (you know who you are) and then resold for prices that only someone who already has those weapons can afford.  

Now to the meat of my wish concerning the rarity of weapons.  I don\'t care how rare they are, but they should all be rare EQUALLY.  Not 25 guys that drop every type of powerful sword in existence and 2 that drop powerful axes.  I pray for the day players can make their own powerful weapons because that will alleviate this shortfall.

[mbr]

The problems when the players can make their own advanced weapons is that they would tend to overcharge, since the materials needed would be hard to get, the chances of successfully making the items would be slim, the skills are hard to level up, etc... Not to mention the demand would be greater due to the fact that not everyone wants to make one, since buying saves them the effort and such.

The economy in PS might be affected badly when crafting runs out of control. Time to have a tight control by the craftsmen guild.