PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Vaneal Serozen on February 23, 2016, 07:55:09 pm
-
Hello folks, I don't have a lot time so I apologize in advance for any errors or disorganization/confusion.
Pvp zones need to be revamped. They are no longer special. You can only fight npc in 1 out of the 3 pvp zones that I am aware of and one of them is bare of any and all content. Many of my fellow players have expressed dissatisfaction about the current state of pvp zones, most importantly the area that was once the dlayo pit in the arena. I never heard of there being any form of justification as to why it was removed despite is popularity or why the loot of the dlayos was also changed. The pit used to function as a high risk high reward area to test your metal against tough npc and players alike. Now the pit lies empty so it can be said that the pvp zone is still there but everything it was has been lost. Furthermore I do not recall ever hearing a reason for the abandonment of the dlayo pit. It was one of the most enjoyed features of the game that defined end game content and player vs. player combat but it has been destoryed.
Sure, we do have other pvp zones but lets be honest, anyone who enjoyed the pvp zones of ps is absolutely not thrilled at the idea of having a mine in a pvp zone. Im not saying it is a bad idea mind you but it does not even come close to filling the hole left by the disabled dlayo pit. Furthermore, it would seem that there are other locations that would be even more fitting to have a pvp zone that do not. For example, one would think the onyx dagger rogue room in the sewers would be very dangerous but it seems it is no more dangerous than the city streets when it comes to player interaction.
My simple request is that it gets fixed or if it is deemed out of character or against the lore of the arena to make a substitute. And I don't mean just throwing npc into the pvp zone with bad loot, the dlayos used to have some top tier loot and so should their replacement. The current dlayo loot would not be bad to transfer to the replacement npc but it is not what it used to be. Restoring helmets and galkards would be an excellent start to a new and rewarding loot pool.
In addition to that, the new npc could be of a race that we do not currently fight much like the enkidukai, diaboli, dwarves and/or any others I missed. For a name, they could be called something like a Gladiator of Dakkru for a nice rp touch. Nothing says they have to be the same either, differing weapons and magic types would make for a very interesting and challenging fight. It would take a lot more work to balance and all but it would not be essential to any revamp of the pit so it could be done later if need be.
In short, what I would like to see in the pit or any new pvp zone is strong, varied npc types that are comparable to the imago consumers in difficulty and have valuable but not unique loot drops. I don't want players to feel they are left out of getting good loot or items because they are not comfortable in a pvp zone. Mind you I'm not talking about little "hot spots" like camp banished. I'm talking about large areas like the dlayo pit and the platinum mine and onyx dagger room that add a great visual element and are very helpful in defining the boundaries of the pvp zone.
Thanks for reading, as we know the game is in beta and my intention is to suggest ways to restore some of things I spent many hours enjoying. I hope it was at least a semi entertaining read. See you around in ps.
-
Aw hell I like this. I loved the dlayos and died plenty of times in that pit, both from them and from disgruntled or just random players killing me from the sidelines.
Top tier loot, but high risk. It was awesome. So, ditto the suggestion. My only difference is no need to change race of gladiators in my opinion (though who wouldn't love to train up on menkis <3)...
-
PvP zones can be a hotspot for exciting encounters, but also for harassment and frustration. Either way, they can add to the game experience for sure.
As far as I remember, the PvP pit in the arena was emptied for events like the champion's cup (yes, that's a long time ago).
New zones with interesting NPCs could be a nice addition.
If any new ones are added, maybe an on-screen notification when entering such zone would be helpful.
Concerning new types of gladiators: I would love to see an arena veteran NPC that is impervious to attack, unless the player challenges him via the npc dialogue menu. But I guess that is another topic.
-
It's been a long time since I haven't seen such a great topic... \\o//
I'm fully surpporting your idea :thumbup:
-
PvP zones can be a hotspot for exciting encounters, but also for harassment and frustration. Either way, they can add to the game experience for sure.
As far as I remember, the PvP pit in the arena was emptied for events like the champion's cup (yes, that's a long time ago).
New zones with interesting NPCs could be a nice addition.
If any new ones are added, maybe an on-screen notification when entering such zone would be helpful.
Concerning new types of gladiators: I would love to see an arena veteran NPC that is impervious to attack, unless the player challenges him via the npc dialogue menu. But I guess that is another topic.
Having an on-screen notification and/or a debuff/buff appear is an excellent idea. It would definitely help players realize that it is dangerous area, make the boundaries more obvious and hopefully keep the new or more peaceful players from getting into to much trouble.
-
The changes to the Dlayo pit in the arena have been required by a long term project aimed at making the arena a training facility and area and making it a place where it's easy both IC and OOC to organize competitions (thus making the arena PvP pit easily accessible and without risk of aggro-ing NPCs).
You can also notice the mob distribution have been changed in order of increased challenge from lower (rat, clacker pits) from highest (dlayo pit).
In the process it lost the purpose of an hotspot area for trilling hunting-PvP mix.
The camp banished instead maintained its original purpose.
If you like the idea of having an hotspot area like this I think we can implement a similar hotspot but outside the area (whose purpose is a bit different now from what you would like).
Thinking about the other area you mentioned (the platinum mine) I think it could be the right place to revamp a PvP hotspot like you said.
This place may become a dangerous spot where both valuable resources can be collected (loot, precious ore, etc.) at the price of constant trill. I will try to think about something but maybe a tribe of dangerous NPCs (ulbernaut, bandits, etc) could roam about.
If any new ones are added, maybe an on-screen notification when entering such zone would be helpful.
I will think of it but I'm not sure it's possible.
-
I've got to say I'm with Vaneal 100% on this, and in my view the pvp has lost all purpose, period. I never see anyone there, it goes entirely unused, and great fun was ruined by adjusting the Dlayo location. No offense but I would be extremely disappointed and frustrated if you don't reconsider this. Camp banished does not compare and if the bandits put at the plat mine are anything like the ones at camp banished, it would all be junk loot like with all of them besides Guile on occasion. I would like to see some added or changed pvp zones, but that idea for the plat mine seems just not good enough and to miss the point. Again I mean no offense but the changes made to that pit have effectively killed pvp and my priority and wish is that you reconsider that zone specifically, because the others are junk in my opinion and lie empty of other players 90% of the time, eliminating the purpose.
-
The changes to the Dlayo pit in the arena have been required by a long term project aimed at making the arena a training facility and area and making it a place where it's easy both IC and OOC to organize competitions (thus making the arena PvP pit easily accessible and without risk of aggro-ing NPCs).
You can also notice the mob distribution have been changed in order of increased challenge from lower (rat, clacker pits) from highest (dlayo pit).
In the process it lost the purpose of an hotspot area for trilling hunting-PvP mix.
The camp banished instead maintained its original purpose.
If you like the idea of having an hotspot area like this I think we can implement a similar hotspot but outside the area (whose purpose is a bit different now from what you would like).
Thinking about the other area you mentioned (the platinum mine) I think it could be the right place to revamp a PvP hotspot like you said.
This place may become a dangerous spot where both valuable resources can be collected (loot, precious ore, etc.) at the price of constant trill. I will try to think about something but maybe a tribe of dangerous NPCs (ulbernaut, bandits, etc) could roam about.
If any new ones are added, maybe an on-screen notification when entering such zone would be helpful.
I will think of it but I'm not sure it's possible.
Not what I had hoped to heard about the Dlayo pit but I can understand why.
As to camp banished... I feel like you might as well try taking a sailor and putting him in a mud puddle and telling him to have fun. Camp banished is so small you really cannot compare them. The Dlayo pit was so big there were many spells that did not even reach across it. Loot is also not even a comparison.
The platinum mine might be something that can be converted into a reasonable pvp zone but it would be a very odd one since it is not on level ground. If this is done, please, for the love of fun do not put animal/monster npc in there. There are tons of places to fight those and animal parts are not nearly as exciting or that valuable compared to named weapons. The npc would preferably be a healthy population (none of those 3 npc groups that one player can keep killed non-stop) of high level/difficulty humanoids that drop a variety of gear. If the loot is not working off of a unique loot pool, it should at least be given a higher change for rare names to make a solid higher risk and higher reward mechanic. I am thinking a few groups of 5 or 6 npc that have the same or similar models (badit models perhaps), different names and reward pools that are shared with other npc in game so as to not exclude anyone who does not like pvp while still providing valuable loot. Spacing will be very critical as to keep you moving but not waste to much time in travel between npc. I am thinking loot from onyx dagger rogues and/or dark rogues, imago and/or neoten consumers, dlayos and/or expert gladiators.
Another idea is an underground arena of sorts that hosts death fights (pvp spots with npc in them) and have many of the same gladiators as the hydlaa arena. I don't know how hard it is to make an additional room in some place like the sewers to accomplish this. Just an idea I had. I find it hard to believe there are no underground fighting rings like that in a land like yliakum.
-
We could always bring back the brigand and his merry band (and his pies ;) ) at a PvP location with beefed up stats. :thumbup:
Not sure how I feel about making the plat mine more annoying than it already is. Perhaps another plat mine in a second location that is in a non-pvp area that is more out of the way/difficult to get to, but would be safer to mine at could be a potential compromise (plus it would be fun to look for a new mine again).
-
PvP zones can be a hotspot for exciting encounters, but also for harassment
So, willingly walking into a PvP zone and getting killed is harassment? I don't understand.
trill
Do you mean from Star Trek or the musical trill? lol
-
So, willingly walking into a PvP zone and getting killed is harassment?
Heheh, certainly not. Therefore the following remarks about the added value and about on-screen notifications ("willingly"?).
Sometimes it was a bit disruptive when a player one-shot-killed guys from a save distance, but that's part of the game. Harassment? Can be felt as such, even though it does not apply in terms of game policies. *shrug*
-
trill
Do you mean from Star Trek or the musical trill? lol
(http://frupic.frubar.net/shots/33461.jpg)
Not sure if thrill or troll... or tribble.
-
There are plenty of valleys in the different maps with nothing in them. I say pick one or 2 or 3 as needed or feeling greedy take what ya want. Don't see a need to put it someplace others would go to play the games quest or gather resources. Might even provide good views with folks lining the ridgelines.
-
Here's an idea: make everywhere except the roads into PVP zones. >:]
-
PvP zones can be a hotspot for exciting encounters, but also for harassment and frustration. Either way, they can add to the game experience for sure.
Exactly, Boni. We had some OOC spillover from the pit at times (sadly some of my friends were guilty of harassment, camping near the pit and one shotting a creature who had been rude to me every time he showed his face - effectively banning him from the pit :devil:) but overall it was great, both solo and in groups.
If you like the idea of having an hotspot area like this I think we can implement a similar hotspot but outside the area (whose purpose is a bit different now from what you would like).
Awesome Eonwind \\o// Is there a flat plat mine around? Or maybe a flat sapphire mine, or some other gem mine?
I haven't actually been to the plat mine since the Stillwater Peace Corpses took it over, so I better go check it out before I suggest alternatives. Be back later.
EDIT: [Just read Feas's comment on not combining a resource with a pvp zone...I do like the combination, but Feas is new so I think his opinion should have more weight...but if there are TWO plat mines, then the darling newbs could dig in safety if they wish...]
-
If you guys are trying to foster ooc competition for a resource that exists in a non-pvp zone, then why would people bother mining at the pvp zone? It would be more efficient to mine the non-pvp spot.
If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource. Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency.
Example:
Have a pvp currency that's earned by winning duels. Let that currency be used to buy things that benefit pvp only. ( We don't have pvp specific items, but that could be changed)
Consider granting control over that area to an individual or group for a period of time as a reward for winning a group fight. ( Group vs group ). An example would be rights to use the old outlaws guild house for a month. New owners would be determined monthly at a pvp match.
Another idea might be to grant a pass out of the dr to the winning guild for a month at a time.
-
If you guys are trying to foster ooc competition for a resource that exists in a non-pvp zone, then why would people bother mining at the pvp zone?
Rigs, that's not what's being done here (although I like the ideas in your post).
The point is to have another pvp zone like the dlayo pit used to be - very tough NPCs along with top tier loot in a PVP zone.
Putting it at the mine is a separate idea, one that I liked but others don't. But it wasn't the main point.
Vaneal and Far really really really want the dlayo pit back, Eonwind explained why that's not happening.
So the question is - especially since Eonwind is willing to work on this - where to put the new dlayo pit? At the plat mine on the jaggedy hill top? Or in one of the valleys as Feas said? I'm ok with anywhere it goes, I'm very impressed that it can happen at all.
-
Does anyone even care about plat anymore? You don't need it to train like you once did, so money is not as valuable. ( and this is a good thing, when money is too valuable, people do stupid things like mine all day )
Regarding loot, what happens when you get all the special loot? Where is the incentive to continue? Once you have the loot and have no need to liquidate it for money, you don't really need it anymore, so it loses value.
Hell, if it were up to me, I would just turn the Eagle fort into a huge-ass pvp zone after moving quest npcs out of there. Nobody cares about the goddamn Eagle fort. People only go there because of quests. ( It's a shame, it's a very impressive looking area )
-
Send all unneeded loot to me i am a noob needing upgrades
-
By the gods, stay on topic man!
[But I feel compelled to speak - a Perfect Trigrain Steel Miniskirt of Talad's Ankle is never going to lose value. No one will sell it, it might be worn for dueling, wars, cups, parades, etc. but no one would sell it.
I LOVE THE GODDAMN EAGLE FORT! Highly dramatic area, and yes it's totally underpopulated by us but there have been HIGH drama RP scenes there, I've had my own small RPs there...so yeah, let's don't turn the whole place into a PVP pit with all the mobs and all the people Rigwyn thinks are fools and grinders out there tearing up the lawn :(].
Anyway! So. New pit location? With klyros gladiators or...? Is there an option for other races?
EDIT: [Just saw Feas's post - ;D - when you see Rigs in game he'll probably give you something, and I will too - this is Nicoletta]
-
Won't be seeing me in game any time soon otherwise, yeah, I'd give feas something. lol
Anyway.... it's like chewing gum. After a while it just gets played and needs to be spit out.
Enjoy your gum.
-
I personally am not a fan of PVP, but I can appreciate what such an area could be.
I don't think having such an area on a mine or other mineral resource would be very good, as it would make trying to get a certain ore a nightmare and frustrate gameplay. I do like the idea of having such an area in a valley - there is a lot of space, people could come and watch if they really want, plus there would be an opportunity to use the environment such as rock formations or trees to your advantage if it was applicable.
For all that you don't see many people at the Bronze fort, it would not be very IC realistic for it to be a PvP area. It is a military establishment, full of the toughest warriors there to defend Yliakum. Nobody would be allowed to fight each other there - it would go against the idea of it and the spirit of the IC laws. On the other hand, if we made a particular part of it, like a ring or colosseum or a training ground as a PvP area, it could be more realistic - It could have "Guards" or "Warriors" stationed there for people to fight. Besides, it would ruin such a magnificent place to turn it into a PvP area - no one would be able to use its grandure for anything then.
Speaking of such rings, could there be other places like that around the dome? The IC Laws state that if you want to duel go to a designated spot or outside - PVP areas by or connected to a city could be a place for such things to happen. Or if we don't want rings just parts of lawless areas could be converted, as has been mentioned previously though not all areas else wise quests would become quite difficult.
[Hahaha good job Feas! Free gear. I might have to try it at some point.]
-
If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource. Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency
this would be the how things should be done in the end, having a specific resource or gameplay for PvP players that does not enforce people unwilling to PvP. However this require a lot of work and we have more urgent priorities (like improving the group gamplay, completing the magic way specific gameplay, etc.) therefore it's not possible to do it in the short term.
PS Platinum is still very valuable as you can craft several things with it including jewels.
-
If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource. Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency
this would be the how things should be done in the end, having a specific resource or gameplay for PvP players that does not enforce people unwilling to PvP. However this require a lot of work and we have more urgent priorities (like improving the group gamplay, completing the magic way specific gameplay, etc.) therefore it's not possible to do it in the short term.
PS Platinum is still very valuable as you can craft several things with it including jewels.
I am deeply concerned that making a new pvp specific resource or currency could be counterproductive to the goal at hand and lead to pvp being more ooc that what it already is. I have seem similar systems in the past and dislike what I have seen as it usually allows someone who has pvped longer and is already more practiced have an even larger advantage in the form of pvp gear over someone who is new to it. In addition to that, I feel that it will promote a lot of ooc fights between anyone and everyone who enters the pvp zone that you are not good friends with for the sake of powering up. However, this would depend a lot of how the resourse was obtained. I for one do not like killing everyone and anyone I can and would rather just see lawless areas as is fitting to the game settings and geography than have a new recourse to fight over.
I have played a couple games where pvp plays a massive role and they all seem to suffer from the same power vacum and extremely toxic communities. To try to recreate this in little pvp zones in game would not be beneficial to ps in my honest opinion.
-
I agree. I don't think that a specific PvP resource/currency is suitable for RP reasons.
I like the idea of mineral(s) being in a PvP zone, I think it would add an interesting dynamic to this game by making the mineral "feel" more valuable and enhancing communication between players. I've played games where there is a similar frustrating element and in the end I think it adds more enjoyment/involvement.
-
Personally, I dislike PVP, but I do understand how it appeals to some, and that's fine. The point is, to be able to just go player on player is very shallow. I think a lot more could be done to deepen the experience, and I'm not talking about trying to mix in RP. The two should not be mixed, ever. I think having a mechanism for matching players on skill and armor level might be one enhancement, another would be to have a graded set of goals and rewards to provide reason to continue and opportunities to participate before maxing out. The PVP crowd would be more suited at pitching ideas on this.
-
Personally, I dislike PVP, but I do understand how it appeals to some, and that's fine. The point is, to be able to just go player on player is very shallow. I think a lot more could be done to deepen the experience, and I'm not talking about trying to mix in RP. The two should not be mixed, ever. I think having a mechanism for matching players on skill and armor level might be one enhancement, another would be to have a graded set of goals and rewards to provide reason to continue and opportunities to participate before maxing out. The PVP crowd would be more suited at pitching ideas on this.
I feel that the pvp element of ps is very similar to all the pve and rp elements of the game. The lore and role play atmosphere is something that is very unique to ps that I have enjoyed for years. I have never participated in any kind of in-depth or lengthy rp but I respect and enjoy being part of it just by performing various actions in game. Every action, pvp included, should be something that reinforces and builds your character. For those who just want mass murder without even identifying the other players, there are tons upon tons of games solely focused on pvp that allow you to fight with or without stat balances. Ps is not about those things.
Now, if there were a resource in the area, like the platinum mine, that could be considered a capture point that you would have to hold. You will still have to dig it up though. That is an acceptable implementation of that idea but other than things of that nature I see no place for such mechanics in ps.
The only other thing that I can think of for rewards or mechanics that would go well with ps is having a character's faction standing be effected by who he kills or engages. The effect will depend upon the reputation of the target's/victim's own standings. If a player becomes to infamous/evil then he can be engaged anyplace and killed repeatedly. This would rely heavily upon some kind of marking system to allow players to identify the standings of others. The only thing I can think of for this would be a mark from a god like laanx, talad, xosia or maybe even dakkru. These marks could be a result of players who have been killed by the player to be marked praying at a temple for the god's to avenge them. This would take a prayer and maybe even some materials as an offering but would add an extremely cool element to the game in my honest opinion. These marks could stack so that for every kill the evil character could also be killed if the victim chose to pray for revenge and make an offering. I do not know how practical or possible this would be to implement so take the idea for whats it worth I guess.
-
In role play, the players would be the ones to spot such behavior ( ie praying to the wrong god or whatever ) and collaborate on how to resolve it. With role play, reputation is everything, so rumors and lies can lead to nasty or unexpected consequences. Similarly, with role play, we are the ones who create and uphold these in-character rules of conduct and the story that goes along with it. It's possible to take elements like this from role playing and infuse it with pvp, but to support that, fellow players need to be on the same page and understand how to separate character knowledge from player knowledge. Once you get someone who thinks it's just a big chaotic free for all, all this work and effort goes down the drain.
-
a pvp currency that's earned by winning duels
About ten years ago, there was a pretty useless system of duel points: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=25922.0
I don't think such a currency would be beneficial. From time to time, people tried to use guild points for a similar, player-driven system. Never really worked out well, as far as I have heard.
Placement of PvP zones: I think it is important to have clear boundaries, such that you know when you enter or leave the zone. An entire map instance might be cool, but then we have to be careful that loading points are outside of the pvp zone.
-
Just have certain areas in the wilderness set as PVP zones. Set them far enough away from the roads and cities so that someone can't just accidentally walk into them, but so that they are potentially in the path of the quickest route between cities. So, if you were to run in a straight(ish) line from, say, Ojaveda to Hydlaa, completely ignoring the roads, you run a risk of being killed along the way. This would have the added benefit of more player interaction on the roads.
Another good but questionable idea is to add small PVP zones into cities, for example the hidden alleyways and sewers, but tucked far enough away from places where beginners might go to train or quest. I swear that these at one point existed, but were rare.
As for making PVP worthwhile, we know for certain that we will never allow players to loot other players, so I propose this: allow stealing from other players, but only conditionally, and if the victim chooses. Assume that a player has been beaten or has yielded. The attacker can either kill the victim, let them go, or steal. The victim has a choice to offer something for their life. You'd need a longer wait period between losing and release, but I think this should only apply to PVP zones and be five minutes maximum.
Final idea (I swear), which I think would really help roleplay and tie into mechanics, is to make faction-based PVP. This is drawing from Dark Souls, but I could see it working really well here. Once you've joined a specific faction, a Dakkruist one for example, killing people could reward you with more faction rank but additionally give you points that you could exchange for money or items with an NPC in the Death Realm. Another (legal) example would be a gladiator faction, which gives you a point upon defeating another player in the Arena, and those points can be redeemed for money at an NPC in the Arena.
Tell me how all this sounds, because I'm pretty sure these ideas would save PVP. We need to make PVP great again!
-
I think you come up with some good points, Volki.
The suggestion about stealing mechanics is nice - and also implies the option that a player can be in "yield" state, not only after (auto-)accepting a duel. So far, if you defeat someone in a PvP zone, during a guild war or via /groupchallenge, they are instantly sent to DR. No choices, no yielding. I think this is an aspect where PvP zones could be made much more interesting.
-
Just have certain areas in the wilderness set as PVP zones. Set them far enough away from the roads and cities so that someone can't just accidentally walk into them, but so that they are potentially in the path of the quickest route between cities. So, if you were to run in a straight(ish) line from, say, Ojaveda to Hydlaa, completely ignoring the roads, you run a risk of being killed along the way. This would have the added benefit of more player interaction on the roads.
Another good but questionable idea is to add small PVP zones into cities, for example the hidden alleyways and sewers, but tucked far enough away from places where beginners might go to train or quest. I swear that these at one point existed, but were rare.
As for making PVP worthwhile, we know for certain that we will never allow players to loot other players, so I propose this: allow stealing from other players, but only conditionally, and if the victim chooses. Assume that a player has been beaten or has yielded. The attacker can either kill the victim, let them go, or steal. The victim has a choice to offer something for their life. You'd need a longer wait period between losing and release, but I think this should only apply to PVP zones and be five minutes maximum.
Final idea (I swear), which I think would really help roleplay and tie into mechanics, is to make faction-based PVP. This is drawing from Dark Souls, but I could see it working really well here. Once you've joined a specific faction, a Dakkruist one for example, killing people could reward you with more faction rank but additionally give you points that you could exchange for money or items with an NPC in the Death Realm. Another (legal) example would be a gladiator faction, which gives you a point upon defeating another player in the Arena, and those points can be redeemed for money at an NPC in the Arena.
Tell me how all this sounds, because I'm pretty sure these ideas would save PVP. We need to make PVP great again!
As far as pvp zone placement goes, I have never been a fan of smaller more plentiful zones as players just run in and out of them freely to avoid any kind of conflict and may even abuse the boundary. As far as pvp zones in towns go, I had high hopes that shindrok's crater would be a pvp zone seeing as though it is run by outlaws and cutthroats but i doubt this has been considered.
As to yielding in pvp zones, I am skeptical but if properly done it could be a nice feature. I believe it should be an option for the player to do if they want to avoid death and not forced on them like it is in a duel. If it is forced on the player, it opens up the possibility of them being practically stun-locked by anyone who has nothing better to do than be a jerk for an indefinite period of time until they use the /die command to "escape" to the DR.
Faction based pvp sounds like a nice idea but I am not certain it could be implemented with the factions in ps because a lot of them are not war-like and even dakkru only values the lives of the strong if I remember right. I know, I mentioned it previously but I think it would be a headache to develop into game mechanics.
-
If it is forced on the player, it opens up the possibility of them being practically stun-locked by anyone who has nothing better to do than be a jerk for an indefinite period of time until they use the /die command to "escape" to the DR
I had the same thought as I was reading over my post. After a player is released, they could be "immune" from other player attacks for a certain period, long enough for them to escape the range of a ranged attack. Otherwise it would be easily abused.
-
How much is PvP related to "roleplaying"? ... PlaneShift used to be a roleplaying-promoting game, which made it an exception among all the lot of other combat oriented games.
I don't mind allowing PvP for fun. But I doubt it should be a primary element.
-
I did not mean an active ability to /yield, but the passive mechanics that you get knocked down when your health is depleted. So, if you want to kill someone, you'll have to deliver another finishing blow. Actually, I think that could also be nice for arena NPCs - getting a reward for knocking them down, instead of the kill-and-loot mechanics. But yeah, off-topic.
-
So, if you want to kill someone, you'll have to deliver another finishing blow.
MORTAL KOMBAT! ;D
(http://frupic.frubar.net/shots/33510.gif)
-
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/LARS_SKYNYRD/SubZeroFatality.gif)
-
How much is PvP related to "roleplaying"? ... PlaneShift used to be a roleplaying-promoting game, which made it an exception among all the lot of other combat oriented games.
I don't mind allowing PvP for fun. But I doubt it should be a primary element.
I would have to agree with you about it not being a primary element but I don't want to see pvp zones also become ooc zones. Some people are better than others at being consistent with their actions but every now and then someone feels like goofing off and starting a little chaos. Do I want to see a lot of /me or /my chat in pvp zones? No not really, we can do that any place atm.
I did not mean an active ability to /yield, but the passive mechanics that you get knocked down when your health is depleted. So, if you want to kill someone, you'll have to deliver another finishing blow.
Not a big fan of this because some time ago I have had a defeated target in yield state bug up so they were next to impossible to kill and even worse, could move and still attack. Not sure if this bug can still occur and is rare or has been fixed. Even if it was added to pvp zones it is not bullet proof as some enchanted weapons and damage over time spells kill targets in spite of the yield mechanic. What annoys me the most is the screen confirmation window. It has the potential to block your field of view and increase the time required to kill. Not an issue if you are fighting a single target but if you are engaging multiple targets (players and/or npc's) things are going to be that much harder.
-
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/LARS_SKYNYRD/SubZeroFatality.gif (http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/LARS_SKYNYRD/SubZeroFatality.gif)
I can't see that as inline image, it's redirected to an ad-bloated website.
-
As we said several time since PS is heavily focused on RP every character action should be seen in the first place as an IC activity.
This is not to say we are evil and we want to force every action you have your character do in game as an IC action. This is just to point out that if someone sees your character acting in a certain way inside a PvP zone it's completely licit for them to treat this action as an IC action.
This also means we would like to setup the PvP in a way that makes them enjoyable IC areas rather than OOC areas (this was also the reason why we changed the arena setup in the first place).
Not every one (and every character) will enjoy a PvP area just like some character will not enjoy much a certain area like a tavern or a certain type of RP. That is perfectly fine, our gaol as a developers, is to make it so various gameplay styles are covered and enjoyable but do it in a planeshift style way.
That said my personal idea of "special currency" for PvP area is not to create a "currency" that compete with other types of already existing currencies or to create something you absolutely need to have for crafting a super equipment, it's more to offer a way to reward PvP activities somehow. The idea could be to give characters an alternative way to train, gain money, PP etc.
For example I was thinking about a repeatable quest(s) that send the players in that area for a IC reason and reward the player (maybe even if they haven't had any chance to kill anyone NPCs or PCs) in order to make the trip to that area worthy of the time to do so.
Other mechanics like faction mechanics or something like this, while interesting makes things require heavy work on the code base and so are harder to implement. On the other side using existing mechanics we could create this factions based on what we already have (e.g. some NPCs may not attack anyone with thief factions so some PVPers may side with the baddies against other players, while people with faction points in the guard could be charged to liberate the area etc.)
These are just draft ideas of course.
-
It's sure that PS, should not been focused on PvP, but back in the past, the time when we were 200 online, lot of ppl were RPing and PVPing. with Guildwars, with over 80 players fighting (alliance of the light Vs Alliance of Chaos).
At this time PS was a game for everyone, and everyone was having fun. Players were Rping and RPer were Playing, not just RPing their skills totaly ignoring game mecanism.
Then because of few complain, PS decided to change direction, to enforce RP, with some rules and changes, it's been like this for quite some time, loosing players every weeks and last step of this was to split the small comunity and push half of the Player on EZPC.
Since I never seen more than 60 players online (weekend), and if you log in morning Eu timezone you can log with 2-3 players online...
So I'm ok to enforce RP, but if ps works better when your computer is on, It's also a lot more fun to play with 200 player online than 12...
-
Very nice thread.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm not a great fan of PvP (yet). But i can see it's potential to a game and PlaneShift in particular.
Reading all the posts, i would like to add/confirm the following.
Volki:
so I propose this: allow stealing from other players, but only conditionally, and if the victim chooses. Assume that a player has been beaten or has yielded. The attacker can either kill the victim, let them go, or steal. The victim has a choice to offer something for their life. You'd need a longer wait period between losing and release, but I think this should only apply to PVP zones and be five minutes maximum.
PvP as stated by others as well, should have a reward. Looting the tria might be the easiest and best way. Of course, as others also noted. A player should be informed entering a PvP area. Indeed a dead body should take longer to enter the Death Realm, so it can be looted. This extra time, might also come handy for another change i have in my head, but is not related to this thread. We can put our tria in the bank, so that can protect our rich merchants from dropping all their hard worked tria.
PvP could create RP as well, if played right. Like every action in PS can create RP if played right. So saying PvP-ers don't RP isn't a reason to stop PvP in PS. And many of us agree we need more dark/evil playing characters for RP?
PvP could very well, be a excellent way to create this.
Another way to create reward in PvP, is the following.
Create a 'guildhouse-alike' thing in the wilderniss. Maybe a tower or something. Make the area around the 'house' a PvP area. Guilds can own the house by controlling the area for a certain time. They can keep it for themselves or share it within their alliance. (And so making the alliance your in more important). It's not a reward like a mine, that declines other players to it's use, but it does give your guild a little extra / some fame. Of course the idea need to be worked out, since a guild doesn't have 24/7 online presence to keep the 'house'. Maybe some NPC's that fight along the owner that need to be killed as well. (I wish players could hire NPC's in the future for certain tasks like guarding)
One question as newbie to dual/pvp: Do you get experience points for killing other players?
-
I don't think you get any points for winning pvp, but I think you did in the past. Either way, said points cannot be used for anything, so they're pointless. :p
As for being able to spare one's live in exchange for an offering, I believe you CAN choose to spare or kill the player currently, so I don't see what would stop you from saying, "Your pants, or your life."
This is where OOC vs IC starts to seep in. From an IC perspective, it might make sense to part with one's dignity to be spared being send to the death realm. From an OOC perspective, it would be pretty stupid to give up something since you're going to back in 5 minutes and have the benefit of training under Dakkru's curse. ( extra experience points gained )
Making the game allow you to forcefully steal from the other player is an avenue to violating the other player's will. If they were willing to let you rob them after a battle, they would do so willingly.
-
Thank you Rigwin for the quick reply.
I don't think you get any points for winning pvp, but I think you did in the past. Either way, said points cannot be used for anything, so they're pointless. :p
If it were experience points, they are not useless. They can be used for training.
Making the game allow you to forcefully steal from the other player is an avenue to violating the other player's will. If they were willing to let you rob them after a battle, they would do so willingly.
That's why we need a warning signal/mechanic when players enter a pvp area. Then it's really the players choice to enter that area.
-
You only get the practice points for using your weapons and armor skills. A while ago not even these were given. But it was always fun to give out prizes for small PvP player events (e.g. left signature link).
-
Players were Rping and RPer were Playing
This is the best. My favorite grinders could RP with the best of them, and conversely my favorite RPers both ground out what their characters needed and roleplayed the rest (e.g. would rp an aggro warrior if they had stats/skills for it, or a healer if their crystal way was high enough (didn't need to be maxed at all) and if not, would rp that they were semi-pacifist or not able to heal - hope that makes sense).
Anyway, it's certainly my goal.
Eonwind, is this going to happen? Or have we dissipated the energy by YAPPING about it for ages?
Vaneal, if we can't have it in the dlayo pit, do you want to advocate for a PVP area filled with dlayos who drop unique loot in another area? Or did you lose interest?
-
Players were Rping and RPer were Playing
This is the best. My favorite grinders could RP with the best of them, and conversely my favorite RPers both ground out what their characters needed and roleplayed the rest (e.g. would rp an aggro warrior if they had stats/skills for it, or a healer if their crystal way was high enough (didn't need to be maxed at all) and if not, would rp that they were semi-pacifist or not able to heal - hope that makes sense).
Anyway, it's certainly my goal.
Eonwind, is this going to happen? Or have we dissipated the energy by YAPPING about it for ages?
Vaneal, if we can't have it in the dlayo pit, do you want to advocate for a PVP area filled with dlayos who drop unique loot in another area? Or did you lose interest?
It is still something I would like to see be brought back to ps. Eonwind already mentioned making some changes to the platinum mine but I'm not a big fan of the area due to the crazy geography. I have not said much do to nothing new being brought up and I still think that being rewarded per kill is a flawed reward system for pvp. I have played enough pvp oriented games to realize that this is not what ps needs and perhaps not ideal for any game but it is easy to implement so it is the preferred system. I thought I was really clear about what would be an easy reward that people have always liked, good loot. Maybe not unique loot pools but good loot in the form of named gear drops. Npc type could be changed but I personally would prefer humanoids. Some of the other ideas are good ones but as of right now I think the devs have more than enough to focus on. I don't know for certain but I think the loot is the most simple solution for rewards atm. As to would I like a new pvp zone with dlayo like mobs in a relatively flat area? Yes, I would love to see this. BD is freaking huge and has a ton of potential for areas like this.
I've not lost interest. I just have not said much for a while as I am having a hellish time with classes.
-
To integrate role play with PvP fighting, one needs to consider the motivation of characters who fight. In my (admittedly limited) experience with PlaneShift, there are four basic character motivations:
1) Characters are evil, demented or perverse (eg: Kisoji)
2) Characters have some kind of grudge against each other, not resolvable diplomatically, so they have to fight.
3) Characters are gladiator types, either forced into an arena or who enter voluntarily for glory and fame.
4) In Character political, financial or social machinations lead one character to feel the need to eliminate another character.
In addition to considering motivation, I would also like to remind everyone that PS does only have dozens of players, rather than hundreds, and producing areas attractive to veterans that are obscure, distant or hidden from new players only adds to the sense that Hydlaa is a ghost town.
I suggest considering the plaza up by Amidison Stronghand's house as a PVP area, if one is implemented in Hydlaa. I'd suggest boundaries in the center of the plaza, leaving a strip near the buildings where it is safe, so access to guild houses and NPCs is maintained, and so people could come to watch any fighting from relative safety. This plaza seems to be where the local old families live, and over time old families develop grudges with each other (think Montagues and Capulets). Also, the Boralises work nearby but outside the plaza, and could warn people that it is a dangerous area, as could Amidison herself, as she progresses around town. In addition, the statue of Yllian/Enkiduki amity in the plaza is a nice ironic touch.