Some learn by doing...

[novacadian]

It would be nice to see some learn by doing taking place through the game mechanics. As mounts ride and glide by my character it makes one wonder why she isn't building strength and/or endurance with all the cross country jogging which she does for ic reasons. Some learn by doings would go a long way to helping bring the game mechanics to those who would rather spend time rp-ing than grinding, as well.

[Phantomboy86]

There is a reason nearly every single successful MMORPG does NOT use a 'pay for skills' system. Because its idiotic and counter-intuitive. Grinding in planeshift is pointless enough as it is without adding yet another layer of hardship to it. It creates a plateau at of all the stupid places, the fresh off the tutorial noobs. You need money to train skills. In order to get money, you need a skill. Catch 22 of awfulness. The successful MMORPG's I'm referring to are the likes of Runescape, World of Warcraft, I suppose you could say Diablo. The only successful pay-for-skilling MMO I can think of off the top of my head is EVE Online, which has long been referred to as 'accounting in space'.

But here the extra mile of ridiculous is taken, a THIRD layer of completely unnecessary hardship, the PP system. I've played quite a few MMO type games, and while a few (immensely unsuccessful, the big name ones use learn by doing for a reason. IT WORKS. Just because your system is unique, doesn't mean it's any good.) used the pay for skills system, they kept it at that and hell even used it as a basis for a real money shop, which players might hate but is a solid business strategy.

Having three layers of mind wrenching toil to get 1 measly level is just wrong. Either strip away the proven terrible systems and go full learn by doing, or stick with either the PP or monetary systems alone. It'l still be a poison in the well and continue to drive off players, but will probably do so at a much slower rate.

At least the monetary system makes a modicum of sense, you're paying for a trainer to teach you things. While for simpler skills that don't actually need any sort of formal trainer to pick up (Mining, Body Dev, Strength, ect) it's a little silly, it still has that basis in reality you can argue for. PP doesn't make any goddamn sense at all. You need to kill (lets face it, hunting is the only reliable way to get PP. See above plateau) things to acquire a metaphysical concept and somehow channel that mystical force into a 2nd layer of purchase required for training? What? I'm sorry but what? Can someone (preferably someone actually playing the game atm.) explain that to me?

/rant. TL;DR nova's right but we all know it will never be changed because the idea has somehow sprung up that being different is a substitute for actually functioning.

[LigH]

Not a new idea. Discussed over "decades".

But it is the purpose of other games to implement it that way.

[Rirenil Masdo]

just because you want to do something in a way which allows you to be a special snowflake, does not always mean that it is the best way to do such things.

not picking sides here; simply pointing out that there are more than a few reasons why the game is currently where it is at, with the amount of people that play it, besides it being a "hobby project" and development takes a bit longer than a more normal game does.

[Eonwind]

You need to kill (lets face it, hunting is the only reliable way to get PP. See above plateau)

No, this is no more true. Since the last update every skill now provide at least the necessary experience (and PPs) to advance to the next skill level once done with practice.

[Phantomboy86]

You need to kill (lets face it, hunting is the only reliable way to get PP. See above plateau)

No, this is no more true. Since the last update every skill now provide at least the necessary experience (and PPs) to advance to the next skill level once done with practice.

Remind me to go ask a noob if they currently need PP. And if you eventually make it so that doing the skill (while presumably leveling it.) gives you exactly the amount to get the points to level it... WHY DO WE HAVE PP TO BEGIN WITH?

[Kaerli_Stronwylle]

Crafting PP gain has been rebalanced and is much nicer now.  It's possible to out and out gain PP while grinding crafting now, even (which is A Good Thing (TM))

[Rigwyn]

Wild speculation:  If you didn't have pp, then someone could give you a crap load of money and you could buy all your stats in one shot ( str, will, cha, etc.. )

What is not intuitive at first is if you spend your pp on stats, you'll have none left for skill training.

[Rirenil Masdo]

Wild speculation:  If you didn't have pp, then someone could give you a crap load of money and you could buy all your stats in one shot ( str, will, cha, etc.. )

is that a bad thing?

[Rigwyn]

I think it would actually be a disadvantage now in terms of skill training. I think the way it used to be, it would have been a huge advantage. The only question would be whether or not it would have been worth the expense. Again, things were different then than they are now.

[jowifi]

I don't have any real problems with the current scheme.  PP and tria aren't that hard to accumulate, especially since the rebalancing.  I just started a new character and was able to earn over 1000 PP and 20k tria in about an hour with some basic crafting.  Plus there are always the quests for earning both PP and tria.  I think even the simplest ones give at least 40 PP.  Yes, they take some time and may require running all over the Dome, but I think they help introduce newbies to PlaneShift and role play and provide something to do other than just grind away at a craft. 

[Rigwyn]

Agree. I tried questing with a new char recently just to see how it was. The quests were giving far more pp and tria than rat bashing. Its a nice way to get a start. Again, if the player does not know about this advantage, then they may not find out until they've passed the point where its beneficial.

[Eonwind]

Remind me to go ask a noob if they currently need PP. And if you eventually make it so that doing the skill (while presumably leveling it.) gives you exactly the amount to get the points to level it... WHY DO WE HAVE PP TO BEGIN WITH?

I think you can remind it yourself ... to begin with.
It was already made (as I already said) that you get the amount of PP needed to level the skill. PPs are experience, basically a fraction of it: 1 PP = 200 Exp, so afterall they're nothing fancy at all.
The experience gained can be spent to raise the practiced skill itself, the stats or maybe raise another skill, the choice is up to the player.

Wild speculation:  If you didn't have pp, then someone could give you a crap load of money and you could buy all your stats in one shot ( str, will, cha, etc.. )

is that a bad thing?

bad thing or not, just it wasn't the way the system was designed so far, beside this system would give a huge advantage to rich players.

[Cirerey]

PP are learning by doing. In a more generalized fungible form to allow cross training. What earns PP and how many can always be discussed.

[Volki]

PP is not "learning by doing". It's... There is no way to explain it because there is no real life equivalent.

Seriously, what is it?