Author Topic: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?  (Read 1490 times)

Avathius

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Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« on: February 22, 2011, 09:18:19 pm »
First of all, hi Planeshift. Some of you might know me as Kaibane, because I changed my character name. I have been playing for around 3 years, but the activation email for the forums never worked. Finally, I tried again, and it did. I have been wanting to post this for a while, ever since I got my name changed:

The point of this topic is discussion of "evil" characters. As some of my friends know, I changed my name for roleplay purposes: Avathius was his name as a noble leader of the Legacy guild (it had a different name, but it's conterversial), but then his best friend was killed in a war and he turned to darkness and chaos. He was banished from the guild (which he later "killed." Actually, everyone just left lol, but whatever) and then, in his anger, completely annihilated the guild that slew his friend (actually, the guild war made the enemy guild break up, so this is almost partly true). Avathius then delved into the darkness of his past and his Black Flame name, Kaibane (pronounced "kaibayne," for those in-game who were wondering. It's not "kaibanay") he changed to be his real name. Now he is feared and hated by all, wanted by law, and his only true home is the death realm among the death mages who seek shelter there. When he travels through Hydlaa he is forced to walk in the shadows, blade drawn, lest a guard or citizen see him.

People read my description (which isn't entirely like that, but it's close) and then decide that they want to hate my character. Now, I'm ok with that. An evil character should be hated. But then, they start insulting ME as a person, because of what I say in my character description. Some of the comments were:

"Noob!" (of course, *ugh*-are there even noobs in PS?)
"Don't talk about how powerful you are! I can get my guild to gang up on you and kill you any time!"
"You suck. Characters aren't supposed to be evil." (no joke here. Someone actually said that. A character can be whatever you want it to be, jeez)
"I could kill you in a duel. Don't threaten me."

People don't understand: I don't duel anymore. I used to have killer stats, but because of 0.5 my character now sucks (at least he can wear heavy armor and has some half-decent gear). My "threats" are for RP purposes only.

The overall point of this thread is that there are too many character descriptions that go like this:

"He always has a twinkle in his eye and a good story to tell"
"She is always willing to party or have a keg of beer in Gugrontid"
"An old, crusty warrior who is always telling stories of past battles"
"A friendly blacksmith who likes to start conversation"
"A tricksy and humorous prankster who loves to laugh"
"The proud leader (or officer) of his guild, who is skilled in combat"
"A fine warrior, he is always for justice!"

No offense to people who's descriptions are like this: I'm fine with a few of these in PS. But when 90% of PS's population has a description that resembles one listed above, that's when I can't take it anymore. I remember a year ago, there was some guy named Xul or something, who would wander around to people asking if they were "the One." Anyone else remember him? Personally, I think that is a great and original RP idea. Just saying that you are a champion of good, or that you like to party, or that you're friendly, is honestly kind of boring if overused.

But really, the point of this topic is that I think it is ok for PS to have evil characters. I don't think everybody should be an evil character. I don't think MOST people should be evil. In fact, I think only around 25% at max should be evil or lawbreakers. But that's not my point. My point is that people need to stop hating the evil characters. Evil is a part of PS rather you like it or not. Deal with it. It's hard enough to play an evil character without haters breathing down my neck, telling me that I suck.

Those few who have evil characters, let's raise our RP chalices and have a toast to pretend hatred! Just remember to keep that hatred in-game only =D

Mekora

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 09:34:33 pm »
I hope that's in the OOC description. There should only be what another can see when they look at your char in the RP description.

Avathius

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 09:46:12 pm »
Yes, of course it is. That's not what we're talking about here.

Anyone actually have something related to evil characters here?

Phage

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 09:55:42 pm »
You seriously put this one your chars background story and explanations into your description? Sounds boring to me when approaching a char and after checking the description for its appearance I would already know everything possible to know about that one. If your char is evil, why not putting some subtle hints there only, make it intruiging to people who merely catch a glimpse? Lure them? In contrast, if I would put there "You see the most evil one you have ever seen and he would rip you apart with his dark magic within a blink of an eye whenever possible" I wouldnt be surprised to have people.. well, not be very pleased.

You list comments of others, while not telling the prerequisites - did they react like that because your char walked around barking at others he is most awesummist and kickass (while the description might mention Black Flame, evil and whatnot in such a spoiling and dilettante way)? I suppose you get the point, these quotes dont tell a lot, whereas in fact they could show the mistake is on your side.

You played for a couple of years, now changed your characters name, and seriously complain "People don't understand: I don't duel anymore"? Who cares whether you dueled or not, or if you had pwned others by one strike that way - if you want to roleplay do it well. Attempting an evil character, create one others might be seduced by, perhaps one of the most important attributes for a secretive evil char aiming high. Once seduced, captured, have your influence take impact, maybe subtly. Then proceed as you want.
 (sorry,I notice your words got me biased already).

As for the list of examples on description you are not fond of, I agree, to my liking they already show too much. Basically the same way, as I understood it, your description fits in.
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Just saying that you are a champion of good [..] is honestly kind of boring if overused.
Same applies for evil chars, needless to say of course.

Quote
Anyone actually have something related to evil characters here?
What do you want to hear? It is all welcome to play an evil char if done properly? Thumbs up?
Over there, lurking from safe distance.

Avathius

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 10:03:26 pm »
Ok, first of all, what the hell?

Do I look like some noob running around saying "I'm gonna shove my sword up your ass and I'm gonna like it because I'm evil?" No. I just like to put a bit of backstory in my description, while also providing some first-glance opinions. If the person reading my description is truly worthy to play an RP game, he/she would take the backstory in mind, but not express the fact that his/her character knows it. All the character would know is that "Kaibane looks shifty, with bloodshot eyes and sometimes plays with a small, black flame that flickers on and off in his hand. He offers you a cold stare in return for yours." And no, that's not my description.

The same does NOT apply to evil chars, because last time I checked, there simply weren't enough of those around to be considered "overused." Most of the good RPers tend to drift over to the side of "good" and "justice." The new RPers are stuck, so if they go "evil" they tend to say "I'm bent on world domination" in the description. After learning a bit more about RP, they switch to the side of good because it is far easier to RP as a law-abiding citizen knight if the game is set in a world that is stuffed full of prancing good people.

Phage

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 10:16:46 pm »
Well sorry, cant tell what do you look like, was merely taking your post into account, no offense intended.

I agree that even in the case of a most spoiling description only the relevant facts should be given to the character approaching, but then again, as you have obviously noticed, you play with human people, and it seems to happen these ones get biased, intentionally or not, caring or not. You still could try to avoid that, raise tension doing so, tell an exciting and creepy story by not revealing important details.
And since for playing evil chars secrecy is more important, apparently playing a "good" character well is less hard than playing an evil one, I agree. The more a well played evil char would be appreciated. Dont get discouraged, keep it up. Those players you consider good and trustable RPers you can open your plans for your char and they wont adapt their chars behaviour. In case of doubt however, I would rather not tell too much, for the same reason I would simply not include any details of that type into a (public) description.
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Avathius

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 10:30:31 pm »
Finally, someone who understands! I think I have a bit of description changing in order...

Anyone else on the forum own an evil character? Would you like to share your stories or description or something?

LigH

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 01:47:37 am »
In general, people tend to generalizing... ;)

Don't blame us all. Of course, evil characters are appreciated, they spice up the game.

But to be true, I prefer the smart and reserved diplomat over the mad and violent slayer kind of evil character.

That's my personal taste, though. The warrior heroes may have an opposite one. Fortunately we have many. One for each taste.

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Tessra

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 03:39:33 am »
Hehe... maybe when Caraick reads this he will talk about his evil alt, Marsuveus.  [Who I happen to think is one of the best evil characters in game right now]

I've run some minor evil characters before, but in my opinion, to make a really good evil character, that has to be the focus.  They can't really get developed if they are primarily an alt.  I also firmly believe that IC events should be able to dictate the character's growth.  They shouldn't be static, but dynamic creatures, who react and change based upon life events, like the death of a best friend changed yours!

My main, Teshia, spends more time with evil characters than she does good characters, and while she's technically "good", you'd have to take that with a grain of salt.  She started out completely good, but IC events shifted her to the darker side of things. As the story goes, she was cursed by Marsuveus forcing her to follow Dakkru and the Dark Way, she married Kull of the Cutthroats to protect someone, and grew quite fond of him and began to expand a network of spies and informants until she managed to betray almost everyone she knew.  I LOVED running her as evil.  She was vicious, sadistic, sneaky and underhanded.  She was once mugged, and ended up beating the mugger within an inch of his life, carving the initials of the man she loved into his arm and releasing him, telling him to train and come back when he was worthy of her teachings.  As soon as he left, she ordered one of the Cutthroats to kill him for his impertinence.  She also ordered the desecration of the Temple of Talad... which only like 2 people know about ICly. <_< [Sorry Talad, please don't smite me!]

But...

All good things must come to an end.  X-/  Kull vanished into the wilds [aka had some computer trouble and poofed] and without his evil influence, the only close friends she had left influenced her heavily back to a more... kind... approach.  It was the death of her mentor and closest friend, Caraick, that pushed her firmly back into good, and made it so that she cannot really do anything evil anymore.  Her life now centers around making him proud of her. *grumbles* So she's gone wimpy.  Of course... she still had someone brutally tortured for the suspicion of having harmed Caraick, and just recently killed someone for attacking her future brother in law.

The way I see it, she's Anakin Skywalker.  I've tried to play her with that type of outline to her personality.  She's not 100% stable, or sane, but she's viciously loyal, and would destroy anything or anyone who harmed those she cares about. 

I've never tried to make people ICly like Teshia.  In fact, they aren't supposed to really like her.  What can I say?  When Tesh is good, she's pretty darn good, but when she's bad, she's better. ;)
Also, it's more credible to others if you grow in power slowly over time.  First kill rats, then noobs, then klyros, and eventually work your way up to more powerful creatures ~ Miomai

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 04:29:22 am »
maybe you should take your character's history out of his description? it's generally a bad idea to put biographies in there. players will use ooc information icly, and, personally, i prefer to discover character histories through roleplay, not descriptions. that goes for personalities too. those examples you listed go against my idea of a good description too.

if you don't have the stats, you probably shouldn't roleplay your character as being as powerful as you claim he is. laziness doesn't give you the freedom to pretend you're awesome. but, if other players are okay with it, i guess you can roleplay your character being stronger than he really is.

and i've rarely encountered players who are that rude.  ::| this game is full of carebears.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 04:32:19 am by Sarras Volcae »

Chessire

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 05:17:41 am »
Tesh is that evil? Wow, i'm missing a whole lot about you! Anyway of course we love evil characters because they can create great RP plots, especially the well played ones... I actually started Chessire intending to make her a servant of evil but somewhere in the way my RL personality took over... mostly because of the so many other kind hearted characters in the game that didn't leave enough room for hate to develop i think  ;D
But I love putting friend into unrest with several evil alts, it can create many fun situations...

As of why some people hate evil characters I can only answer judging by myself, and the answer is they are simply afraid. Just like me when i started playing many players haven't realised there is no actual danger in a RP and no need for stress about winning or loosing. I think its because in all other MMORPGs the winner gets the reward and the looser is sent at some cemetery far away. Notice how some said how they had stronger skills than you and they could beat you or how they'd bring their guild to chase you down.
I think that eventually everyone realises how fun it is to run around shouting "I got robbed!" or pretending you get cut all over in a fight or many other fun situations that can get more and more spicy with a resourceful player behind the villain  ;)

LigH

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 05:47:46 am »
Yes. Teshia is so evil ... she even hides Tessra from her professor...  :detective:

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Jekkar

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 06:44:33 am »
words

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil

I won't raise a chalice to you, I'd be categorized in the stupid evil group.
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Mask

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2011, 07:01:33 am »
Hello Avathius, welcome to forum!  :flowers:

Before I start rambling about the topic, I think that it is time for description guidelines to be inforced somehow. It really can't be that difficult. Updating the old roleplaying-guide also might prove helpful. And then there is the issue of characters without any discription whatsoever...

A lot of good points have already be mentioned, though I have to admit that there are evil characters and "evil" characters. I don't want to dissect what's evil, this could be done in another thread if there isn't one already. One needs just as much skill in roleplaying a evil character as in playing a good character, since it's not about the alignment but the character her/him/kraself. And I don't like cardboard characters. I know how difficult it is not to create or play or write a cardboard character, and I can understand that one needs to learn how to roleplay. That's completely fine, and one doesn't need to be a carebare to explain or teach roleplay.

So many complaints concerning roleplay could be resolved, if the players understand how to give their characters some depth and what conflict is and why it's a good thing for roleplay. If they don't, teach them.

Personally, I like it when players play their characters with depth and in a credible way. Doesn't have to do anything with some of my characters not liking evil characters.



Quote from: Jekkar
I won't raise a chalice to you, I'd be categorized in the stupid evil group.

You just had an evilgasm (see last panel) having that speech on that fountain. Ever since, you might wanna categorize with this faction.
It's just an idea, it might contain nonsense until proper sources are given.

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Sangwa

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Re: Evil Characters-why must we be hated?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2011, 07:47:11 am »
Mate, the problem is your description. People are usually annoyed when they see something either too fictional (i.e. having a dark aura of doom or talking sword) or something too evil (i.e. being hated by everyone [i.e. assuming you are generally known and people actually give 2 cents about you]). These type of things greatly bother some really immature players and you should know that. To me, it simply makes my character laugh and point his finger when you expect him to see/believe what he doesn't.

I play a character that ends up annoying _plenty_ of people due to his antics and lack of respect for others. Still, the characters my character annoys the most are owned by players who are always affable towards me, the player. In fact, some players even told me they had evil characters or interest in creating one.

I wouldn't say you're totally wrong, since there are idiots out there, I'd just say you had bad luck and hate bait.

Also, Jekkar for Octarch.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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