Unlike some, I'm not inclined to slam one game to promote another, that's not what I'm going for here.

I would like to know what people think makes PS unique (other than that it is free and is open source--both very good things).

So far I've seen some EQesque qualities (many of which I liked in EQ), but I haven't seen a whole lot that would make it stand out in a commercial setting.

So, focusing on gameplay, and perhaps community, what do you think makes PS unique, or if not unique, good.

If you're smart about it you can come up with an RP reason for everything you want to do...making them plausible is another thing.
But, enforcing RP, at least for me, is a moot point.

My main concern at this point--will add to wish list after two weeks--is char creation.

I know it's against some ideas of "strict" RP to give stats before your char is created (or stats at all), but since you do so anyway at the end, you end up with people having to write guides to char creation (making it less enjoyable, less immersive, and more of a hassle at the start) in order to stat out the character builder (hackorish) so they can build the char the way they want. And afterwards the pregenerated backstory is probably not anything like what they wanted their character to be... Plus some of the things in there are a bit outlandish and cliqueish.
<edit>and if they don't find those guides here, they can (or will) certainly find them on the net

I was trying to make a Hunter/Archer and ended up with 110 will.
Mainly because I didn't want to take the negatives to certain stats I consider essential to my character.

My suggestion is to give no stats at all--ever, or give stats from the very beginning.

No stats would focus more on RP at the beginning, and make people feel out their characters afterwards.
Without numbers it's based on gameplay solely, but an option to eliminate (or revert) some of the choices at a later date becomes very important.
<edit> unfortunately there are those who will eventually figure out the stats regardless, but if the average player doesn't have to worry about his stats (i.e. it's obvious that this does this, or this improves this etc. etc.--same goes for skills), most people won't even waste the time with mastering the nuances (or code) of the interface--they'll focus on enjoying the game.
<edit>Experienced RPers v. 1337 h4xx3r5: in my opinion you need both, the 1337 h4xx3r5 find the flaws and explain a lot about the game so that you can pretty much ignore the interface, the RPers make it fun. What Planeshift wants (I think) is 1337's that can RP; best bet is to make it fun and not seem overbearing and controlling (something they hate)--this will cause dissension and turn many of them against you, causing even more problems when they point out the flaws in the worst possible manner.

I like no stats option, but this needs to become MUCH more sophisticated to be useful.
On the plus side--for showing stats--just about every p&p tabletop game I know of shows stats in the character creation stage--most at the very beginning. Let us create the characters as we want them, and you will get a much better RP response from players. Even those who don't RP that much.

I understand that for some players, unless they are forced to pick a backstory they won't, but do you really want to force one upon them that doesn't match their character?
Might want to let the community deal with this one...
Who would want to group with a purposefully non-RPer in an overtly RP game?
Though, in this case, I guess in-game experience with this one is golden.

I do know that if it's too restrictive the good RPer's won't like it.

Tough call.

Maybe try random RP incentives by the GM's?
That would have worked really well in other MMO's I've played.
Though that in and of itself seems less immersive...

To start, for now, I'd suggest making some more general options for backstory and include the stat mods in the character creator.
Or, better yet, have an option to view (or not view) the stat mods while creating a character, giving the player even more flexibility.

Just from the character builder (the game itself, not the community, forums, website, etc.), I'm wondering if there was really a big RP focus to begin with, or if it's something that was picked up at a later time (not that it's a bad thing, I really like it) or how much RP experience you all really have, or if the character builder just wasn't, and isn't one of the priorities...
<edit>Kind of like "we'll look into implementing that at a later time"
<edit> The artistry; however, is certainly not in question--though, is it true that the graphics are proprietary? Would be curious to know what exactly is or isn't open source.

Yes, I know it's alpha (still alpha right?) but character creation is one of the first impressions people have of the game.

For the backstory, you might want to start much more general (universal?) and then make it specific later.
Rather than entirely rewriting the character creator text at a later date.

I did see the quick build option, convenient, decent for now, but way too limited for an open-source game.

Like the game so far.

Later

<edit>clarified a few things

Yea, for the most recent install I did of 0.4.01 (this morning) that was the case...

<edit> Actually my second (and subsequent) installs were from different mirrors--sorry don't remember which ones. This might explain some updaters working (or not) right after install. Going to test the patch and see if it reverts back to "one file per execute" like before.

<edit>The patch psupdater.exe works as it should--though it did update to the new version (1.0 apparently), maybe it was a server bug that got worked out /shrug

<edit> best answer I can think of so far is that the Updater Updater was down (this part "Checking for updates to the updater:"). Almost reinvented the wheel  

nuff said

*edit*

Wonder what the verdict is on double posting?   

Perhaps Caarrie will chime in?   

Maybe another "double post" will incurr her wrath. 

Hadrian Kross begins preparations for the impending onslaught.

Caarrie: Found the "Modify" button. Thanks.

Does replying to your own post with additional info (that might not be good to include in the original) constitute a double post?
Thought that was when you hit submit twice, or with the exact same info, like bump etc.
I'll do edits to this post until I get a reply, but it seems a bit asinine.
Wasn't really expecting to be forum nazied in the dev boards.

"also keep in mind that you can take time to do whatever you want that does not mean the dev team will accept it..."
Well yea, that's sort of the nature of open source...either implement it for yourself, and/or submit it so that others can use it or improve off of it.
Have you had trouble getting inclusions past the dev team??
Either way I'm not going to get pissed off just because something isn't accepted, main thing is I get familiar with the code...

neko kyouran: thanks

found the code here:
http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/docs/compiling.html
didn't notice what it was written in though

Mordraugion: GPL = teh good; was mainly looking into a simple automation script for the current interface... If this can be done with a simple .bat style file included in an optional patch, along with the "updaterinfo.xml" fix, I think it would help end user frustration...
<edit> actually why not include a good "updaterinfo.xml" in the "Updater patch for Windows" (along with psupdater.exe)?

At this point would do a scripted file for each supported OS (rather than an actual app that is cross platform)
Starting with windoze'r
<edit> apparently not necessary (at least for windows) with a "good" copy of psupdater.exe (see bottom)

Now back to the joys of .bat--will post any code I think is worth considering...

Thanks for the replies,
HK

<edit> The gui idea was mainly something that could be quickly implemented, or made available now--not something that would really compete with a GUI in the works.

<edit> As of 6:00am CST the updater appears to be automated--at least for me. Maybe I got a bad version? It downloaded a new version just beforehand, but it's still showing 1.0. Seems to be a few (at least 2) versions floating around. When I did "Updater patch for Windows" along with a fresh install--prior to this morning, I still had to manually do each file. I'll confirm this on another fresh install. If the registry doesn't get uninstalled completely will have to do that manually also--wonder how much that has to do with the updater.
Either I just patched a good version of the updater or someone's been doing some late night/early morning work o_0 (assuming they're in the Western Hemisphere)...

<edit> Looks like the uninstall misses a few files in C:\Program Files\PlaneShift Steel Blue--deleted them. Also, didn't see any registry keys left that would explain the updater starting to work properly all of a sudden. Wish I had a copy of the old updater log (the one with "ms5sum dosen't match client ms5sum") hmm...

<edit> Did a fresh install and ran psupdater.exe:

For 0.4.01 looks like the updater starts at 5 then updates to 1.0

PlaneShift Updater Version 5 for win32.

Checking for updates:
Checking for updates to the updater: Update Available!
Beginning self update!
0% ---- 25% ---- 50% ---- 75% --- 100%

PlaneShift Updater Version 1.00 for win32.

Copying new files!

PlaneShift Updater Version 1.00 for win32.


Cleaning up!
Checking for updates:
Checking for updates to the updater: No updates needed!
Checking for updates to all files: Updates Available!

Downloading update file..

Downloading update file..
Patching file OpenAL32.dll: Done!
Checking for correct md5sum: Success!

Downloading update file..
Patching file art/things/shields.zip: Done!
Checking for correct md5sum: Success!
...
...
...

Is the "Updater patch for Windows" necessary (or desired) at this point?
Unless there were residual installation files/settings/registry entries/etc. on my system that made the psupdater.exe start working right off the bat, I don't think it's necessary any more.
Otherwise is there a full manual uninstall list available somewhere?