New trainers!

[Dzyan]

I have the feeling, this will just increment the amount of people that quits the game, now the goals are soo far away. And getting the money to train and the pps will be worse.
Someone pointed out in other post about giving more pps if you kill a rat, for example, if you are a lower lvl player. That would be great, like give more pps according on how challenging is for you the creature you are going to kill, that would certainly help new players.
In other hand, roleplaying a mighty warrior or a great magician, with some "real" basis, for new players is going to be out of charts, as it was now, took already, a terribly long time to do any of those things (and of course not to mention crafting).

I beleave something interesting to do, to make the game more fun for everyone, could be to choose certain players, specially ones that have played a long time, and are very active (and of course the comunity could vote to select them). And then, give them some "gm" abilities, so they could host events, or such, but without really being gms, like they could plan an event, and then they would get the gm powers that day (or maybe an alt character could get them), and then they host the event.
Afterwards the people could vote or give points about how they liked the event and such, and the player that gets more points (because his events were nicer or something of the sort), gets some reward.

I mean the training is not bad, and many find it fun, but to be honest, you kind of isolate yourself when you are doing it, and to train many skills is almost imposible to do anything else but really training that ability. I would think, something great to do, could be something that would make players interact more.

After all this said, I thank you for keep working on improve the game, and I hope you find my comments of interest.

Dzy.-
PS: Sorry if I am not clear in some point, I will glady correct, sometimes i make mistakes in english.

[Edicho]

How will EXP and money gain be affected ?
Is there a solution for players to get enough money and exp to be able to train their levels so the level will be worth it? (e.g. magic)

does that mean crafters need to train themselves up to make 300q items again? also just a thought: if they will just do better items like 600q, will that mean more damage per hit and monsters won't be really as tough?

Also: requesting monsters that gives more xp / good loots but can only be killed in groups "you cannot attack, you are alone" of some sort, that would make it more fun.

[Elady]

Dzyan The Pp system is like this already. The lower your physical stats are the more PPs you will get against higher level mobs. Likewise the higher your physical stats the less PPs you get.  I rushed to re max all my physical stats. This was a mistake since now I can earn very few Pps from killing mobs. For example now with all my physical stats maxed I get 3 PPs for killing a Ulber and 15 for a maulberlord. When all my physical stats we at the 200 level I was getting over 100 PPs for killing a maulberlord. If you want to maximize the number of PPs you get then keep your physical stats as low as possible. If you need to be able to carry more then only train your strength. Now when I start a new alt I keep the physical stats as low as possible and only train my skills like sword and armor. This lowers the number of PPs I need for training ( and trias) but as I improve my skills I can take on harder mobs and milk those mobs for more PPs.

[Dzyan]

Hey Elady, long time no see!!
Well, I meant a more significant diference than a tiny one.
The other day I created a new characted, wanted to try a dwarf, and was killling low lvl creatures for really long time, couldnt move from rats because the others would kill me, but the pps i was getting was very low, so I couldnt improve my skills enougth to kill harder creatures without unavoidable death
At least I know the game, but I could imagine a new player feeling discouraged by an experience like the one I had.

Thank you very much for the tip though! Was thinking on maxing my main character stats, but I am very low on pps, so will work on pps first!

Regards.-

[Elady]

Dzyan remember you can duel the mobs as well ie hit them then back up let them come to you and hit them as they approach then back up again. This lets you take on higher level mobs than if you just stand there and slug it out with them.

There is no question you will be stuck on  the lowest level rats for a while. but at first the PPs and trias you earn in the tutorial helps. A good step would be that any alt you create on an account will be given the level of PPs and trias you would normally earn from completing all the quests in the tutorial since the second character on an account skips the tutorial and thus misses out on those early valuable Pps and trias needed for initial training.

[novacadian]

Body development is not a skill you can practice at this time.

Is that in the works for future upgrades? It may be a nice way to balance the need to level up skills with the complaints being seen by many RPers. If my character could have had some training show up with all her runs from Oja to Hydlaa she would be buffed in Stamina and Endurance; just in the process running travel. Depending on the weight being carried it could increase Strength as well. Providing such progression is very gradual it seems a fair way to develop ones character. To those that have a life, other than PS, then they could use tria to pay their way through skills development. It would add more realism as well.

To add realism to the advancement with a trainer, perhaps game time could be used. One could go to a trainer; towards the end of ones session; and say they wanted to purchase X lessons. Each lesson would require Y amount of game time. So when the character was logged in again a check would be made to see how much game time has passed since logging out and the amount of advancement would be made to cover that amount of time. The appropriate amount of tria would be taken as well.

In that way skill advancement would not happen instantly in game; but assumed to have happened during the game time which has passed since last logging off.

The alternative is to allow the character the same option when first logging on. Before actually appearing on the map they could get a window telling them how much Game Time had passed since last log in and allow them to move such training ahead manually. In that way they could cut training short for any reason they may have for doing so; yet the training could still be assumed to be done during the Game Time period from last log off until the present log in.

With both options for advancement of skills available there should not only be more realism to such advancement but less pain to RPers, as well; as it could happen in the process of RPing.

- Nova

[Dzyan]

Elady,
To be honest, when I just started the game, I had the lesser clue about dueling that you could imagine, I didnt even knew what was that. Dueling them, takes longer time, and besides you could die (wich happens easier if you are new to it), and then you are with the curse.
All this is about real new players. Most games have a bottom 10 lvls or such, were everything is much easier, so they get to understand the game, like it, like the rewards from their efforts, and then, they get into the harsh stuff. Of course, I am not saying someone shouldbe killing ulbernauts in 5 seconds, but get more pps, so you could experiment, in diferent skills till you know better your way around, and what you want, would be fantastic, as it was the other time, with my litle dwarf, I hardly could be buying skills for axe, and that is because I knew i wanted to use axes, what if the player doesnt know what he wants, and would like to experiment?.
For a player that has characters with high stats, or that has been in the game a long while already, the fact that a lower lvl character is hard to train, is just a boredom factor. But for someone that is totally new, is much more, could determine if they stay in game or not. Even more, when at certain hours there are not much players around, so a new player finds a game that is too hard in its startings, and noone around to talk to. Not nice starting.

Regards.-

[Gilrond]

Elady - how many PPs do you get for neotons?

[Elady]

Gilrond after going to 400 in all physical stats, something like 12 if I remember correctly.

Dzyan Remember fighting isn't the only way to earn PPs. I've heard about changes coming to the quest set up. Hopefully they will bump up the Ps available in some of the early quests for new players to help a little. Encouraging people to do quests I think is good since they can help you learn about the world.

[Gilrond]

Wow, that's really a little, considering how many PPs are needed for high levels training.

[Dzyan]

Elady,
Yes would be good to have some changes on quests for lower lvl players, so they would get some pps easier. Still I think, on the first lvls not just the quest but the creatures should give more reward, so the player feels more confortable. Doing quest is not so hard, but not that easy either. If you are new might take a while to find who you want, or what you need. I just think of a more encouraging welcome to the newer players

Regards.-

[scotty110]

PP gains from mobs used to be alot worse though, i think they buffed it somewhere between 5.3 and 5.4 back last summer, but yeah basically the PP system right now kinda reminds me of the Oblivion leveling system, there if you leveled your major skills too fast you'd get little in the way of stat increases when you leveled up your character, then mobs got tougher to fight because they scaled with your level, endgame combat was practically impossible because while you have high level skills, your physical stats sucked and so you weren't able do much.
in PS it's like elady said, raise your mains stats too fast and you force yourself to either grind tons of low level mobs for 1-2 pp each, or waste alot of time fighting tougher mobs with weak attacks because your combat/magic skills suck

[RlyDontKnow]

Dzyan The Pp system is like this already. The lower your physical stats are the more PPs you will get against higher level mobs. Likewise the higher your physical stats the less PPs you get.

not exactly true, your mental stats are taken into consideration as well.
my personal recommendation (one could think that's common sense imo): raise your stats in accordance with your skills.
if you want to become a warrior, train only the according skills and stats and train those *simultanousely*

also note that there are still "end-game" NPCs around that give you with all phy. stats at 400 and all mental at 200 ~150PP/kill

for side-effects of the training cap: there aren't any. you don't have to train crafting further to get the same result, nor mining nor combat nor anything else.

all that the (final) raise of training caps (read: there won't be training past 200/400) does is... raising the caps.
the NPCs you may fight ingame were designed with those caps in mind and so were many other things, hence that change.

also you don't have to train to the cap to enjoy the game - really, it's nonsense. actually it's not even really useful for most skills (e.g. the difference between magic level 150 and 200 is negible atm and so is the difference between crafting level 100 and 200). those who'd like to may feel free to, but nobody forces you to by any means. after all it'd be boring if everyone was a "master", wouldn't it?

so... post in a nutshell: apply some common sense and don't overdo it - take the caps as what they are: caps, not minimums to reach

[scotty110]

i'm pretty sure the term "physical stats" means all the character attributes, agi, int, end, cha, str, will, basically the main stats that affect all other stats, some people tend to think of these as the ones that will help you kill mobs, but it's only half of it, the other skills determine how often you hit, or dodge or successfully cast spells etc, so while it may seem unbalanced to some people, the whole balance issue may be in part of the player's leveling habits, i'm not saying there aren't inate balance issues currently in game but it's clear the devs are working on them.

[Dannae]

Just my opinion, but this is how the change will effect me:

I spent a lot of "not fun" time training some stats to hopefully try out dueling in a tournament or something and managed to max my sword and ha at 100. I'm not going to continue with this any more now that the levels have doubled. I'm just giving up on that aspect of the game because grinding is irritating for me and I'll just stick to rp. If I play long enough, maybe my stats will get maxed just before the character wipe of version 1.0  I might reconsider if tournaments could maybe have events for different levels.