Attack value and defense modifiers now working!

[Gilrond]

Just a thought about testing such things...

If your setup gives "0.00-2.42 Damage", the majority of your damage distribution is probably in the negative range ("fail to do any damage"), and all you can use for your statistics are rare events, because only the tail of the distribution gives a positive result. If I had the patience to test this, I would aim for a setup that gives high dmg values and try to average a large number of hits (>100), because the fluctuations can be very wide.

The setup was player vs player, with melee and no armor. Each hit produced around 40-50 average damage. There were no apparent decrease in damage from those protective spells, except one time with Animate Vegetation, when all hits just failed (however it happened only once, and that pattern didn't repeat after several more attempts). Water Barrier also seems to increase the number of failed hits somewhat, and also only sometimes. But I'm not 100% sure about it.

[Gilrond]

At least we need to know what those spells are supposed to modify. Actual damage value? Possibility of landing a hit? Or something else? Is the effect of the spell also probable when spell is active (i.e. it doesn't work each time) or it's guaranteed? With so many unknowns, testing is too confusing.

[RlyDontKnow]

I hope nobody gets mad at me for spoiling a bit, but here's what they do: they increase (or decrease - yes, that's possible as well as debuff) your *potential* to deal/take damage and it's relative to the potential you had, anyway, and it only affects normal combat (aka doesn't affect magic damage).
what does this mean? it's hard to evaluate how big exactly the change is as luck is still a big factor - it basically just skews the distribution (similiar to combat stances).

[Tessra]

Did anyone try defensive wind against summon missle?  Doesn't it also mention stopping thrown attacks?

[Earowo]

You see, its things like this that could be simplified..
Currently the stats/skills menu shows stats, skills, health, stamina, mana, tria, PP, and a picture of your character.
This is good in a way, you knw what levels you are.
It can be inproved a great deal.
There should be a page, that shows several things,

Chance to hit, [which would be based on weapons equiped, to the skill of the weapon]
Damage,an actual average point damage based on quality of weapon, the actual weapon strength, and the skill of the weapon, E) it would show 230-290, this would mean to an unarmored mob, you would average that ammount.
health rocovery rate, [im saying that since sleep increases that, and other things may in the future]
mana recovery rate, [ same thing]
Active buff/debuff, with timer [if it is temporary]
Defense, based on armor equiped, skill in armor, [i dont entirely know the details on how armor protects, if the points it protects is subtracted from the damage dealt, idk but you can work with that]
There are other things that people would like to know, but I cant list em all right now, i just think adding these to that page would make things less unkown or mysterious, and would make it more obvious what buffs do.

[Bonifarzia]

Looks more like a rules  spoiler than like a simplification to me, Earowo.
Giving a dmg range makes no sense if there are so many factors that modify it greatly. About chances to hit or block, that's even worse, but I perfectly agree that if there are base values for that per weapon type, those should be visible, just like delay or base damage values. At least it is nice that we have defense stats on armor pieces by now.

The problem that remains with this very topic here is that players have no clue which loot affixes are supposed to actually affect the defense or attack multipliers.

[Gilrond]

I hope nobody gets mad at me for spoiling a bit, but here's what they do: they increase (or decrease - yes, that's possible as well as debuff) your *potential* to deal/take damage and it's relative to the potential you had, anyway, and it only affects normal combat (aka doesn't affect magic damage).
what does this mean? it's hard to evaluate how big exactly the change is as luck is still a big factor - it basically just skews the distribution (similiar to combat stances).

So, potential just means possibility of a successful hit? Or it means size of the damage as well? Stances really affect both. From what I observed with defensive magic, even with realm 5 spells (supposedly powerful), damage size was not affected, while possibility of landing a hit probably was, but it was not consistent. With lower realm spells, results were not apparent at all (i.e. if they did affect something, it was too negligible to be felt). What I'm trying to say, that I still have no idea, are these spells working as expected, or they are still bugged...

Did anyone try defensive wind against summon missle?  Doesn't it also mention stopping thrown attacks?

Those missiles are magical energy, so they aren't like regular ranged weapons. I understood, that defensive spells don't help against other magic, with the exception of one spell which doesn't really help now anyway, because antimagic doesn't work yet.

[Gilrond]

I just thought that the results above could be caused by high stats of participating players, which lower the effects of spells. Just tested them with imago consumers, and there is some more noticeable result in damage size decrease, when all protective spells are activated at once. (Unless something was just recently fixed).

[Gilrond]

Spells are working really great now. Thanks! 

[Geceni]

Did anyone try defensive wind against summon missle?  Doesn't it also mention stopping thrown attacks?

Those missiles are magical energy, so they aren't like regular ranged weapons. I understood, that defensive spells don't help against other magic, with the exception of one spell which doesn't really help now anyway, because antimagic doesn't work yet.

One would think so, but according to the Summon Missile description, it's actually a wooden arrow. (Makes no sense to me...) Energy Arrow is magical energy though.

[Imshi]

I could well be completely wrong here but it seems that the defensive spells effectiveness is related to armour worn. If this is working as intended it is a little disappointing, I had always hoped that when implemented they would buff an unarmoured state. This makes a mage character viable without having to invest in HA training, focussing instead on improving their Ways of choice.

[Phantomboy86]

its awesome that these things work at all now, but it might be good to have it say something like 'Coamti attacks you but is blocked by rock armor!' in system, so that you know for sure it's working. or 'Coamti gets through Rock Armor for (lessened amount) damage!' and 'Coamti completely passes Rock Armor for (full damage)!'

[Gilrond]

I could well be completely wrong here but it seems that the defensive spells effectiveness is related to armour worn. If this is working as intended it is a little disappointing, I had always hoped that when implemented they would buff an unarmoured state. This makes a mage character viable without having to invest in HA training, focussing instead on improving their Ways of choice.

You might be right. Since it's a defense "modifier", the result might depend on the normal base defense stats, which depend on armor skill + armor worn. Without knowing an exact formula we are just guessing anyway. As for mages not wearing any armor, since no armor is calculated according to light armor skill, it would make sense for such mage (current mechanics wise, not logic wise) to train LA then.

its awesome that these things work at all now, but it might be good to have it say something like 'Coamti attacks you but is blocked by rock armor!' in system, so that you know for sure it's working. or 'Coamti gets through Rock Armor for (lessened amount) damage!' and 'Coamti completely passes Rock Armor for (full damage)!'

This won't work with current engine if I understood correctly. The defense is calculated  cumulatively from all modifiers and base stats with some rules formula (closed source part). So when the actual hit landing probability and damage value calculation are applied, they are based on the final result, not on the individual parts like Rock Armor or Defensive Wind + Water Barrier or whatever. So I'm not sure it's even possible to report such messages like "the hit penetrated rock armor, but got bounced from the defensive wind...".

[Phantomboy86]

This won't work with current engine if I understood correctly. The defense is calculated  cumulatively from all modifiers and base stats with some rules formula (closed source part). So when the actual hit landing probability and damage value calculation are applied, they are based on the final result, not on the individual parts like Rock Armor or Defensive Wind + Water Barrier or whatever. So I'm not sure it's even possible to report such messages like "the hit penetrated rock armor, but got bounced from the defensive wind...".

Well its not like it has to be exactly like that, im sure they could figure something out to make it easier to calculate if the spell is actually doing anything, without going through 20 minutes of calculations.