Author Topic: Facing a new Era.  (Read 12888 times)

Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2009, 05:37:05 am »
I am seariously impressed, and always Love what the Development team are doing to make our gaming experience more enjoyable.   Thank you Talad - for such an informative and illustrative post.
Her Royal Highness Lolitra Hollinthy Purrty nods regally 'I am delighted to meet you' her tiara twinkles in the crystal light.
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elachlan

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 06:33:17 am »
Wonderful stuff. Compatibility is probably the most feared thing in any IT company/project. EVE-Online another MMORPG splits the client into premium and classic graphics(possible graphics branch?). This allows them to still support people with slow systems. Also from now on you could do the extra work on newer models and work up from there. I speak for myself only but i would rather see a richer world than have my character making me blind with their sword and armor. Good luck with this, I believe it to be a great step forward (Again..)

Mythryndel

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 01:45:26 pm »
Um... just had a thought here... but with this shader work and "shiny" surfaces that can glow... could this be a long-term fix for all the claims that PS is too dark?

I am asking this as a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek.

Caarrie

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2009, 01:52:39 pm »
the brightness or darkness of a map is related to the lighter [which is part of cs] so no this should have no effect on lighting on any map.

Mythryndel

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 01:58:53 pm »
I was just curious after watching a couple of the demos with the shining gold seals on the walls and the glowing jewels in gug. *shrug*

This looks incredibly interesting all the same, and I look forward to seeing it in-game.

zorbels

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 03:07:32 pm »
Just read the article and enjoyed it. Thanks for the update Talad. I like to keep updated with the game and posts like this really help!  :flowers:
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LigH

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 12:29:54 pm »
Congratulations!

There are so many possible ways to play with such effects.

Like, how about a rat, the fur over-frozen by a spell? Not as overlaying texture, but as hoarfrost shader... :D

And even more important: Fluid-looking water surfaces. And cobblestone roads. And brick walls. And brass and copper fittings on the Winch...

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Teutorix

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2009, 12:45:11 pm »
I just want to say that as far as graphics go, even though PS isnt trying to be graphicly impressive i still look at runescape and i laugh my ass off.
the sheer amount of revenue generated by jagexx and they spit out this "game"! I mean its a joke.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 11:49:11 am by Vengeance »

JeroMiya

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2009, 08:56:11 am »
As far as performance and compatibility goes, keep in mind two things:

1) As far as compatibility goes, the first cards to support shader model 1.1 (not sure about OpenGL equivalent) were the Radeon 8500 and the GeForce 3 (non-MX version). These days it is much less likely for someone to NOT have shading capabilities in their cards (in general - maybe the planeshift population happens to have lower end systems?). And you can always use a non-shading backup. Doesn't CS have an "effect" model now that allows you to define an effect, with backup methods where the preferred method is incompatible (or if the user has a setting to turn it off), and apply them to maps? It's been so long since I've had a look at the code. I'm guessing you'd actually want to target shader model 2 or greater (Any directx 9 card or OpenGL 1.5 I think).

2) As far as performance goes, not all shaders are designed for glowy/shiny/bumpy effects that you can see. Some shaders actually improve performance by taking some load off the CPU. There are three main areas I could see shaders being used to improve performance in planeshift without any real visible change: character animation, the terrain engine (maybe - it's pretty good already), and animated ground clutter (grass, trees, etc..). But, of course some of these things would need to have support in CS first, if they don't already. I think Cal3D at least has hardware skinning support doesn't it?

Madoring

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2009, 04:27:19 am »
Dear Talad, and the rest of the team! 
Great article, really love it.  Really love everything you guys do for the game.  Its awesome and ive been playing since 2003.  Just wrote to say this, and I really feel sorry for you guys that as soon as you say, "We are testing this"...Everyone has an opinion on what you NEED to implement next!  /me shrugs  Keep up the good work, I'll be here to play.

Thanks for your time.
Madoring

enderandrew

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 10:18:33 am »
I'm an ignorant non dev, but these are my thoughts.

Planeshift is rather nice in that anyone can run it on relatively minimal hardware today.  While most people would prefer better graphics, I would hope that shader effects be added as an option that can be turned off for people with minimal hardware.  (Note my new desktop I'm building right now is a Phenom II X4 940 quad core with 8 gigs of RAM and a Radeon HD 4850 1 GB).

Next, if you're talking about changing aspects of the rendering engine, shouldn't that work be done upstream with the Crystal Space engine team?  Perhaps e some other teams/projects utilizing the engine can also help out.  Maybe look into recycling code from other FOSS projects like Ogre, which not only supports shaders, but also some nice physics and particle libraries?
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LigH

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 10:30:05 am »
CrystalSpace 1.9 already supports new graphic and shader effects like those you mentioned. I have already seen a lighting model similar to DOOM 3, with detailed surfaces, bumps, shading... done in CrystalSpace.

PlaneShift 0.4.03 still uses CrystalSpace 1.4 (IIRC) and still mostly graphic features and effects on a level of an earlier CrystalSpace version.

You see - the potential is already close. It just needs to get used. And that requires some development manpower and time. But it is not impossible.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 10:31:56 am by LigH »

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enderandrew

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2009, 01:04:16 pm »
So instead of reinventing those features, shouldn't the PS team work towards migrating compatibility to the newest version of Crystal Space?

I'm assuming one might be able to get help from other people working with the engine, and the Crystal Space engine devs themselves who've already been down that road.
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peeg

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2009, 01:08:20 pm »
So instead of reinventing those features, shouldn't the PS team work towards migrating compatibility to the newest version of Crystal Space?

That's exactly the road PlaneShift is on. The dev version (aka trunk) is using CS1.9 already. ;)
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enderandrew

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Re: Facing a new Era.
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 01:14:23 pm »
I apologize for the double-post, but I'm not seeing an edit button.  Crystal Space's website lists 1.2 as the upcoming version.  Looks like they don't update it that often.  On their Trac page, it lists 1.4 as the upcoming version, but there is a roadmap for a version 2.0.  When you said 1.4 and 1.9, I assumed there was a huge gulf.  I assume now that 1.9 is just the development trunk for the 2.0, which will be the version following 1.4 apparently.  The gulf between the two versions may not be that great.

I wonder how stable the 1.9/2.0pre branch is, if 1.4 isn't even officially released.

Either way, if the Crystal Space team is already adding shader support, then why reinvent the wheel?

The weird thing is that the apparently old info on the Crystal Space page says 1.2 is the upcoming version, but it already has support for shaders, and it shows a screenshot of a fur shader.
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