Author Topic: Factions As Real Organizations.  (Read 6972 times)

RlyDontKnow

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2010, 05:29:13 am »
Roled: I think you should give the rewards you proposed some reconsideration. those seem highly overpowered to me. additionally winch access should be rewarded at faction 50, not 40.
for a (in my opinion) good example of rewards, check Rigwyn's proposal. those are pretty nice to have, but aren't completely overpowered like a glyph with a spell to allow to loot monster without killing at faction 10, the amulett you proposed for faction 60 or the glyph proposed for level 100.

also keep important members related to NPCs and allies/enemies the factions stated in the initial post

Rigwyn

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2010, 06:07:53 am »
Xillix said in his post that winch access should be given at 50 faction points.
If the order in question will have a secret meeting place ( as the blackflame has their temple) then at how many faction points should that be given ?

I would think *after* 50 faction points to keep spies and godmodders out ?

Regarding rewards, there will be people who will do the quests with alts in order to obtain and sell these items.
I think it would make sense if either:

A. Buffs and rewards were bound to the character and not the item
B. If the special items required a certain level of faction points in order to equip them.

Perhaps some of the lesser items could be free of this limitation so that they can be sold or given.
I definitely would not want to see a special item for priests to be sold by the dozen on the side of the street.

PS. Roled, I'm flattered that my main has made your enemy list  :devil: . As Sillamon would say, "Xiosia Bless !"

« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 08:54:38 am by Rigwyn »

Zytorr

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2010, 09:20:36 am »
Referring to Rigwyn's description of the Keepers of the Veil (and thanks for the effort to do so) one thing seems to be in conflict with settings. That is the notion that Xiosia and Dakkru would be enemies. As there is a cycle to life and death, light and dark, so too do Xiosia and Dakkru bond.

I believe that by the settings only Talad and Laanx have some "issues" and then it is really mostly Laanx that holds the "grudge".

Certainly it is to be expected that there will occur minor differences amongst the gods, but in the end it seems they would all be intent on preventing the Whisperer from destroying everything. Tensions would indeed be stirred between various factions by the Blackflame, but then that seems to be a big part of the game.

Perhaps Rigwyn is starting already to sow the seeds of conflict between those allied against the Blackflame. hehe!

As to the goodies, I believe this will provide an interesting challenge, a challenge as to maintaining a game that has no predetermined outcome. Along with that thought is also a concern that it not take a lifetime, or good portion of it, to build one's character. Granted one might always be changing, but please keep skills and experience within reason of a game. I especially like the concept of selecting a path at the loss of not advancing on others.

Rigwyn

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2010, 09:36:13 am »
Heh heh .. Zytor, Rigwyn is a troublemaker .. not me. I wont try to stir the pot OOCly.
And good point regarding god vs god conflict. Also from a player's point of view being that most players who follow Xiosia don't seem to like war like RP it might be good for the Veil to disike the Seeds ,, but leave them alone as there primary interest in the ultimate offering - those who have lived a good productive life. Being that Xiosia is against killing (senseless killing) and Dakkru is all for it, I would still make the Veil and the Seeds enemies in that they conflict greatly.

Here is my suggestion for the Dark Order (with some corrections and without the quests ). I PM's it previously.
It suggests a radical change to the way in which one trains magic and the time that it takes to reach mastery.
Bufs, stat levels and story may need to be tweaked but they illustrate the intended idea.


Dark Order

- Proposed change to the magic system:

I would like to propose that with the new faction system magic ability is gained via quests and not via grinding. This reward outline should be implemented after a stat wipe and after ability to train stats is removed. A Player should be able to train about 1/3 of the way in a magic way without committing to the Dark Order. A priest should have 3 times more power than a non committed member. The items in the rewards list are more for show and recognition and have very small buffs ( +5 ). This is to discourage players from doing the quests OOCly in order to sell them in the market place. A Buff of less than +5 is pretty useless. Also the higher priestly items have a high buff so that they are worth more than say a sword or ax that has +20DW. A priest should use these items instead of buffed combat items.

-Overview

Dark Order is an order of Dark Way practitioners. They are not necessarily allied Dakkru or with any particular god. Their primary purpose is to advance in Dark Way.

-Insignia
A simplified line drawing of a crystal inside a circle ( like the one in the DR )

-History

The Dark order was started in the year 512AY when the diary of Jhaav Lernol was unearthed accidentally by an experimenter named Velwort Grellos who was rummaging though the howling well while digging for fresh cadavers for his experiments in necromancy. The diary contained extensive notes detailing his theories, experiments and observations. Much of the tome was written in an unknown argot perhaps to prevent others from learning of his discoveries. Velwort spent the last 20 cycles of his life decrypting the diary and had successfully translated most of the book to common. As some of the higher rituals required multiple casters he was forced to recruit and train a fold of devotees. This fold grew in power over time and eventually became know as the Dark Order.

In the year 532AY Velwort succumbed to the temptation to exercise a new ritual that he had deciphered. According to the diary it would imbue him with the strength and power of twenty men. He called upon twenty devotees and promised them a share in the tremendous power that he would harness. The ritual was to be performed at the next eclipse.

It was midday when the sky began to darken. Silence fell. Twenty men stopped their work. They dropped their hammers and plows leaving their work unfinished. They rushed to the howling well grabbing their ceremonial garb on the way. The draped themselves in black cloaks and wore around their necks a golden chain to which was affixed a small shard of the dark crystal. As the Ritual progressed the sky turned black and the wind tore though the cave with a fierce howl that brought the men to their knees with their hands over their bleeding ears. A black column of smoke rose in the middle of the circle and whisped around the practitioners. Velwort stood in the middle and cackled hysterically as he looked upwards raising his hands. A violet bolt of energy flashed from amulet to amulet and eventually struck Velwort in the forehead. He body was lifted off the ground and suspended in mid air convulsing and bending with the ebb and flow of the energy. It was too much. His bones began to shatter and his head exploded spaying his devotees with a red mist and a smattering of brain, bone and hair. His body dropped to the floor lifeless and still. The devotees also dropped to the ground as the withdrawal of the energy rendered them unconscious.

The next day the devotees awoke with pounding heads and shocked expressions on their faces. The ritual was a complete disaster - a product of greed and over-zealousness. They decided that such knowledge was too much for any one individual to possess without limitations to prevent such recklessness. They split the book into three parts and handed a part to each of the three eldest devotees who were to become the Order's three high priests. Each division would specialize only on the knowledge in their fraction of the book.

The first division became known as the Necromancers. These members possessed the knowledge needed to divine past and future events and to animate the dead. The high priest of Necromancy is NPC1

The second division was known as the Destroyers. These members possessed knowledge used for destroying life. It included advanced forms of Taste of Death, Blindness and Daemon Arrows. The high priest of destroyers division is NPC2

The Third division was known as the Parasitics because of their taste for blood. These members were takers by nature and chose to feast on the living - stealing what life they had. They had advanced knowledge in spells such as Weakness and Necrotouch. The Parasitic's high priest is NPC3.

-Goals

The Dark Order is bent on advancing their knowledge in Dark Way. They recruit and train new practitioners in order to support their own advancement in the dark arts. The are not aligned to any religion.

-Methods

The Dark order places advancement in dark way above all else. Their research is performed in various ways including dark crystal meditation, magic rituals involving corpses, and leaching power off of other living beings. They will often wear an artifact containing a shard of the dark crystal to enhance their powers. Despite Dakkru's presence in the death realm, they are not necessarily allied to her. The fact that Dakkru inhabits the death realm is to them just a coincidence.

-Important members

Velwort Grellos ( Historical Importance)
Jhaav Lernol    ( Historical Importance)
NPC1,2,3 - the three high priests

-Allies

Keepers of the Veil - inasmuch as the Keepers would also have a similar attraction to the dark crystal.
Conclave of Glyphs - In that they are a pure magical order.
Brown Order, Red Order - Neighboring ways

-Enemies

Crystal Order, Azure Order, Blue Order - In that they are opposing ways

Rewards:

I think that for rewards the character's stats should be changed to make them more mage like and less warrior like. The highest ranking players in this order would gain a clear advantage magically without the need to grind excessively. I don't think that path to being a great mage should be attained via grinding. It should be gained via the faction system. Also a priest should not be as strong as a warrior and should not be mining plat or running errands from town to town.

The stat increases as a result of being in this order would render priests and those just under the priesthood with clearly superior dark way skills. A priest would have an additional 100 points in dark way and an additional 20 in charisma. He would also be weakened greatly - a loss of 45 points in str and 45 in agility. The decreases in strength and Agility that are incurred at the highest levels should be permanent. A priest should not be able to train these stats back to 200.


Rewards at 10

A Letter of Recommendation to the Dark Order. (Quest Item)
- This would be part of the initiation process
+10 Dark Way
Death Glyph ( For casting Taste of Death )

Rewards at 20

1st Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC1
+10 Dark Way

Rewards at 30

2nd Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC2
+10 Dark Way

Rewards at 40

3rd Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC3
+10 Dark Way
Darkness Glyph ( For casting Darkness)

Rewards at 50

Ring of Darkness +5 Dark Way
This ring bears the insignia of the dark order. It shows ones alliance to the Order.
+10 Dark Way

Rewards at 60

Access to the Dark Order Temple.
+10 Dark Way
Entropy Glyph (Player will be instructed to find a hand glyph )

Rewards at 70
+20 Dark Way
An NPC casts a spell on the player empowering him with Dark Way skill

Rewards at 80  ( 100 total )
+20 Charisma
Dark Amulet of Velmort  +5 charisma

Rewards at 90   ( 120 total, -20 str, -20 agi )
Staff of the Dark Priest +5 Dark Way
+20 Dark Way, -20 str, -20 agi
The character earns the title of "Low Priest"

Rewards at 100
Dark Priestly Robe with inlayed dark crystal Gems +10 DW
+30 Dark way  -30 Str -30 Agi
An NPC initiates the character into the Dark Order Priesthood. During the initiation he is imbued with Dark Way skill but cursed with a weakening in strength and agility. This is part of the price that he must pay in order to be a priest.
The character earns the title of "Priest"

Art Requested

* Dark Order Temple
* Staff of the Dark Priest
* Dark Priestly Robe
* Dark Amulet of Velwort

Quest Suggestions:
( Removed - original suggestions were PM'd )

Ideally it would be nice if the quests gave the player a good feel for what the settings allow.
For example, quests might show the player that he/she may:
*Summon demons to obtain information, attack other characters, protect them
*raise corpses from the grave (zombies)
*perform rituals that involve eating corpses, wearing their clothes, using obscure symbols like protective circles etc...
Supporting Reference

I think It should clearly illustrate *PlaneShift's* definition of what necromancy and the black arts are.
According to Wikipedia such definitions have changed over time and have been influenced by different religions.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 10:01:59 am by Rigwyn »

RlyDontKnow

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2010, 10:13:58 am »
I would like to propose that with the new faction system magic ability is gained via quests and not via grinding. This reward outline should be implemented after a stat wipe and after ability to train stats is removed. A Player should be able to train about 1/3 of the way in a magic way without committing to the Dark Order. A priest should have 3 times more power than a non committed member. The items in the rewards list are more for show and recognition and have very small buffs ( +5 ). This is to discourage players from doing the quests OOCly in order to sell them in the market place. A Buff of less than +5 is pretty useless. Also the higher priestly items have a high buff so that they are worth more than say a sword or ax that has +20DW. A priest should use these items instead of buffed combat items.

to be honest this clearly seems to violate itself to me. checking your rewards, the player gets +130 dark way permanently and +20 via equipment during this quest line. that would definetely motivate a lot of people to do this quest line just to get the dark way levels. with DW so high up you can kill pretty much everything around...

Rigwyn

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2010, 10:36:03 am »
Would it be more reasonable if the priest character received up to 80DW plus 10 to 20 DW in items ?
That would be in line with the current max levels.

The heavily DW buffed items (Staff and Robe) could have faction requirements in order to wield them.
The resulting character given this revision would be a maxed DW mage who has a serious handicap of 45str and 45agi
Also he would not be able to max multiple ways or be a master swordsman at the same time given his weakened phys stats.

If the rate of advancement is too fast it could be slowed down by adding a requirement to utilize the DW skill before it could be leveled up again.
ie. the NPC might endow the player with 5 or 10 levels of theoretical knowledge, and then the player would have to put that skill into practice until the stat bar turns green.
This would also prevent a character from becoming a priest overnight by simply questing.

Perhaps the rewards could be revised as follows: ( cutting the quest awarded DW stats in half )

Summary of Accumulated Rewards:

 At 40 - Highest level without joining the Dark Order = Total of 20DW
 At 80  ( Total of +50DW , +15CHA with items )
 At 90   ( Total of +65DW  +15CHA with items, Handicap of -20STR, -20AGI )
 At 100 ( Total of +85DW +15CHA with items, Handicap of -45STR, -45AGI )

Breakdown of Individual Rewards: ( Halved )

Rewards at 10
+5 Dark Way
Death Glyph ( For casting Taste of Death )

Rewards at 20
1st Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC1
+5 Dark Way

Rewards at 30
2nd Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC2
+5 Dark Way

Rewards at 40     ( Total of 20DW )     
3rd Signature on Letter of Approval by High Priest NPC3
+5 Dark Way
Darkness Glyph ( For casting Darkness)

Rewards at 50
Ring of Darkness +5 Dark Way
This ring bears the insignia of the dark order. It shows ones alliance to the Order.
+5 Dark Way

Rewards at 60
Access to the Dark Order Temple.
+5 Dark Way
Entropy Glyph (Player will be instructed to find a hand glyph )

Rewards at 70
+10 Dark Way
An NPC casts a spell on the player empowering him with Dark Way skill

Rewards at 80  ( Total of +50DW , +15CHA with items )
+10 Charisma
Dark Amulet of Velmort  +5 charisma

Rewards at 90   ( Total of +65DW  +15CHA with items, Handicap of -20STR, -20AGI )
Staff of the Dark Priest +5 Dark Way
+10 Dark Way, -20 str, -20 agi
The character earns the title of "Low Priest"

Rewards at 100 ( Total of +85DW +15CHA with items, Handicap of -45STR, -45AGI )
Dark Priestly Robe with inlayed dark crystal Gems +10 DW
+20 Dark way  -30 Str -30 Agi

Edit: Revised and added a summary of accumulated rewards
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 11:29:38 am by Rigwyn »

zinder

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2010, 04:16:09 pm »
Perhaps you could change some just giving DW skill, especially later on, into receiving excerpts of the book. Perhaps untranslated, or newly codified, and decrypting the excerpts brings the new theoretical knowledge. Reading decrypted passages might also give hints on glyph combinations to try.

I think that would fit nicely with the history you posted, but would mean more work for the settings people.

Tadano Hitoshi

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2010, 01:09:55 am »
Iron Hand
-Overview

The Iron hand are worshippers of Laanx. Like Laanx they are willful and unforgiving. They believe in a harsh path to enlightenment and the betterment of self. Lead by example rather than the more charitable activities of Talad`s followers. The Iron Hand attracts a great variety of followers from various walks of life, though only the devout progress to the higher ranks, generally favouring one of the five branches of the masked lord`s priesthood, be they warriors like Sempetor, Pryam`s magicians and guardians of lore, educators as with Noctar or ministering weddings or celebrations in Vestru and Ogan.

-Insignia
The image of an iron gauntlet, the back of which is decorated with the serpentine symbol of Laanx as found in the Iron Temple.

-History
The Iron Hand was founded by Galeran Tarbius, the chosen prophet of Laanx himself. It was formed of Tarbius and his closest advisors and guards, both xacha and lemur, having its true founding on the day the Iron Temple itself was completed. Tarbius formed the Hand to gather the devotees of Laanx into a cohesive priesthood and set down the five branches as a way to organize the church. Since then the highest ranks of the Hand have always been made up of the priesthood`s Diats, with others elevated to such lofty positions only after showing great piety. The Iron Temple of Laanx: Galeran Tarbius` great creation, has always been the headquarters of the organization.

-Goals
To spread the teachings of Laanx and his chosen prophet. Often seen as harsh and unforgiving by those who worship other gods, members of the Iron Hand see the doctrine as necessarily harsh in order to forge the faithful into strong souls able to endure any hardship. They are also taught that forgiveness should be seldom granted, and only after great deeds are completed by the transgressor.

-Methods
The Iron Temple in Hydlaa is the headquarters of the Hand, with chambers sealed off to those who have yet to show sufficient piety. The sealed chambers contain the organization`s archives: texts dating back to the days before Laanx`s scarring, rare tomes from ancient Kadaikos and the xacha pilgrims whom the masked lord found in the Stone Labyrinths.
The Hand is formed of members corresponding to the five branches of Laanx, thus including a great many priests and scholars, but also a small number of warriors and, it is rumoured, assassins.
The majority of the Iron Hand conduct religious services and hold celebrations, while others are devoted to the recovery of artifacts linked to Laanx and Kadaikos, the procurement of offerings for use in the temple, and interfering (indirectly where possible) with Talad`s priesthood.

-Festivals:
Exodus` End, Azhord 21. Said to be the day when Laanx lead the lemur to their new home in the Stone Labyrinths and Ancient Kadaikos was founded. One of the most important days of the year for lemurs, who gather at temples with great offerings on this day. To not attend the services (which last several hours and are a trial of endurance) is a scornful act.
Salvation, Kravaan 1. The day when Laanx came to the xacha in the Stone Labyrinths, saving them from starvation and leading them to Yliakum. A celebration more important to the xacha than other races. Xacha fast and extinguish all light in their homes for eight days before decorating their houses with lanterns and gorging themselves with food and drink upon the Day of Salvation (mockingly known as the Day of Salivation by some non-worshippers).
Eonoch`s Week, Quintahl 17. A week-long wild celebration in remembrance of the pious xacha warrior Eonoch who held back a horde of beasts in Laanx`s name before dying the Truth Death. The week is marked with dancing, dueling and jousting tournaments held by the warrior priests of Sempetor, with the champions at the end of the week being offered arms in reward and, on occasion, offers of recruitment into the branch.
Finally, not on a fixed date but coinciding with the first snowfall of the year, members of the Iron Hand spend a full hour in prayer outside in remembrance of Laanx`s scarring. It is common for those upon the Dome to make a pilgrimage to the Scar of Laanx at this time.

-Allies:
Red Order, Azure Order, [something related to smithing?]

-Enemies
Conclave of the Glyphs, Cabal of Whispers

-Important Members
Sharven, Menlil, Polyuntri

-Rewards:
Rewards at 10
5,000 tria
Rewards at 20
Landas candle
Rewards at 30
Iron (or jade) symbol of Laanx.
Rewards at 40
Iron ring (or jade) engraved with the Iron Hand`s insignia (RP use, +1 RW?)
Rewards at 50
Access to the Iron Hand`s rooms in the Iron Temple.
Rewards at 60
Platinum (or jade) symbol of Laanx (enchanted for +5 Will)
Rewards at 70
Choice of an enchanted Sempetor battle hammer, or Pryam magic wand (+5 RW)
Rewards at 80
Quinx-summoning gem for addition to Ring of Summoning.
Rewards at 90
Priest`s robes, large sum of money
Rewards at 100
Priest`s staff (grants a considerable bonus to Red Way)

-Quest Suggestions:
* Konroran`s Statue. The character, after becoming sufficiently initiated into the Iron Hand (faction 50+) is given the task of investigating rumours of the discovery of Konroran`s Statue of Laanx (perhaps it turns out to be one of his earlier attempts, since multiple players will be attempting it) and ensuring it gets to the Iron Temple.
(This quest could be mirrored by a similar one in the Conclave of the Glyphs, with the Talad worshipper trying to recover the statue for Talad).
* From Garad (`Shadows`). Sempetor, the priesthood`s military branch, is rumoured to contain holy assassins and you, after showing extreme faith (Faction 70-80+), are chosen to carry out an assassination for the Iron Hand. Reward is a sufficiently enchanted dagger or disguise.

-Quests Associated:
The existing ones, layered to progress a character`s initiation.

-Art Requested:
*Landas candle (complete with lighting effect)
*Temple rooms only accessible to those with sufficient Faction Points.
*Insignia (rings, amulets of iron, jade and platinum).
*Sempetor battle hammer.
*Pryam magic wand
*priest`s robes
*Priest`s staff (same in appearance to that held by the statue of Laanx)
*Quinx-summoning ring.
*Quinx.
*Sempetor assassin dagger or disguise.

I`m sure I can think of more later, and will edit it in if/when I do.

Tadano Hitoshi

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2010, 11:56:08 pm »
I have some ideas for Faction benefits linked to the Merchant Faction (Jirosh and co.), but not yet a full proposal.
I`ll post the ideas if no one minds, and perhaps something can be used or put together.

Often players have suggested that trade between cities could be implemented by having prices different at different shops. What I propose is a couple of benefits, tied to a player`s faction, which give discounts when buying, and a benefit when selling.

Favoured Customer (FC)
The character becomes a favoured customer of merchants across Yliakum after the work they have done for them and gets a discount on goods.

Silver Tongue (ST)
The character has become skilled at bartering with merchants when selling goods and increases the value of their goods.

For example:
Faction Points
50 FC10%
60 ST10%
70 FC20%
80 ST20%
90 FC30%
100 FC30%

Thus a master merchant (100 Faction) can buy goods with a 30% discount, and sell them for 30% more than the standard price.
To prevent manipulation of the system, selling goods back to the merchant you buy them from would have to be prohibited. For example Taemian will sell you plate-mail gloves, but he won`t buy them. Take them to Harnquist however and you`ll get your 130% when you sell them.
I thought it best to reserve the benefits for 50+ faction in order to make players devote sufficient time to becoming a successful merchant. Are the %s too small?

It`s just an idea, anyway.

bilbous

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2010, 02:32:02 am »
I'd say they are too large by half, but there ought to be some variation in what the merchants offer to buy and sell. Typically if you are going to get into a trading situation then merchants will have things they have and things they want and each merchant is different. There ought to be some room for newcomers to make a profit.   

Just my two cents. Maybe it is not worth one to you :)

Aerig

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2010, 09:41:13 am »
Far too much focus on specific details here.

Planeshift development is incredibly slow as is and excessive focus on detail, ratherthan reliable general mechanic, is probably one of the reasons why. Genericise this whole discussion and all underlying issues and you can rapidly move this game forward leaps and bounds.


Obvious important issue is, what does faction actually mean? 10 points equals how much standing with that faction? 50 points equals how much? How hard is it to get 10 points from 0 or 10 points from 90 to 100? So .. convert the numbers into a social, human context before you even start to think about this .. then convert them back into numbers.

What is a reward worth? What is the point in saying "oh at 50 points we will give you a shiny new longsword". That means nothing to a Dark Way mage. Find some way to define values in the context of the character, not the context of that individual system or what you think is specifically reasonable.

As a coder you also have to be able to RP what you write! To do that you must have a clear definition of what each faction stands for and how they interact with each other in an RP context before you can even begin to think about the code.

You want factions to be real, to be realistic?

What are the socio-politico-economic implications of being a member of, for example, the Red Way? You need your settings team to flesh out a human description of all of that before you even think about putting into coded arithmetic. AFIAK, you dont have that, though maybe you do.

Apart from that? Well, hell, in all fairness, this game, so far, is still developing the noob areas - so implementing factions is slightly premature.

OOC: in the middle of the EBD quests, I am just beginning to feel that I have an appreciation of the game, its possibilities, and the possibilities for my character's future development.

Before you start on implementing factions, I honestly feel that you need to implement quest lines for each likely faction and note down what ideas you have as you do so that might flesh out and humanise the idea of what that faction is and represents.


All that said, here is a very simple way of implementing factions with respect to individual characters:

Character does something for some faction and gets X faction points. The game looks up a table and says ok that means he also got Y +ve faction here and Z -ve faction here.

Kind of obviously, getting faction with Good will affect many things and getting faction with Evil will affect many things. Getting faction with the Red Way may not affect that much. Good and Evil are big, the Red Way is only one facet of either, or maybe, both of them.

But .. what is Good in Ylakium? What is Evil in Ylakium? Start to answer those great big general questions, to define the answers, and then work down through progressive levels.

For me, I would say: Good, Neutral or Chaos, and Evil.

Good promotes social structure, it is in the best interests of as many as possible.
Evil opposes social structure, it is in the best intersts of only the individual pursuing it.
Neutral refuses to participate in Good or Evil, yet incorporates both in an attempt to find the most balanced path between one and all.
Chaos is like normal individual human opinion, it picks and chooses according to what it thinks is best.


I continually see Ynnwyn classified as Evil ingame. Is this correct? Are they genuinely destructive of the social fabric of Ylakium or are they merely more self oriented?

Is Zak so evil? He is a thief, a rogue, but has a mother and is social enough that he is willing to help Rinna despite her being 'marked'

You have to define, in the context of the world of Ylakium, what people living there consider to be good or evil. Then you need to work down from that to define what proportion Chaos and Neutral have of each of Good and Evil. Then you have to define every other faction in the context of those four easily graspible terms.

Once you define all that, then you can begin to define how each faction actually relates to each other faction.

At tha point you have the foundations for writing quests that are intensely complex, interms of the underlying numbers, but which are simple and easy to grasp, in the context of the human playing the game.

At present I do not think you have more than a handful of quests that you can easily associate that sort of faction to, not without the risk of players inadvertently making decisions that they really did not mean to make.

Earowo

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2010, 03:48:00 pm »
you are just full of negativity today :\
Dohmo: Please clean up your language immediately.
Me: as i just said, what i said, fits in the guidlines of rated PG, i was just explaining to the G guy
Dohmo: Sorry I tried to e nice
Dohmo: and i'm telling you to clean it up. last warning
Dohmo: now just do it
Dohmo: No more warnings

Abuse?

Akeera

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2010, 10:01:18 pm »
Primary Faction Group 1: Dakkru, Talad, Laanx, Black Flame, Xiosia, Atheist
Primary Faction Group 2: Crystal Way, Azure Way, Blue Way, Brown Way, Red Way, Dark Way

{PrimaryFaction1 && PrimaryFaction2} = {Aura} {FactionPoints 20->40->60->80->100} PROFILE
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Crystal} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} MINER
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Azure} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} EMPATHIC
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Blue} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} COOK
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Brown} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} BLACKSMITH
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Red} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} METALLURGIST
{Dakkru||Xiosia && Dark} = {Evil||Good} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} CRAFTER

{Laanx||Talad && Crystal} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} HEALER
{Laanx||Talad && Azure} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} PRIEST
{Laanx||Talad && Blue} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} PALADIN
{Laanx||Talad && Brown} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} MONK
{Laanx||Talad && Red} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} SORCERER
{Laanx||Talad && Dark} = {Good||Neutral} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} ILLUSIONIST

{Atheist||Black Flame} && Crystal = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} LORD
{Atheist||Black Flame} && Azure = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} THIEF
{Atheist||Black Flame} && Blue = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} BARD
{Atheist||Black Flame} && Brown = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} KNIGHT
{Atheist||Black Flame} && Red = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} ARTIST
{Atheist||Black Flame} && Dark = {Neutral||Evil} {Beginner->Initiate->Expert->Master>Grandmaster} ASSASIN

Crystal Way Clan: MINER, HEALER, LORD
Azure Way Clan: EMPATHIC, PRIEST, THIEF
Blue Way Clan: COOK, PALADIN, BARD
Brown Way Clan: BLACKSMITH, MONK, KNIGHT
Red Way Clan: METALLURGIST, SORCERER, ARTIST
Dark Way Clan: CRAFTER, ILLUSIONIST, ASSASIN

+ make skill table for each PROFILE
+ with max. skill level reachable
+ depending on Beginner, Initiate, Expert, Master, Grandmaster

khoridor

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2010, 08:38:17 am »
Iron Hand
[...]
-Rewards:
Rewards at 10
5,000 tria
[...]
Rewards at 50
Access to the Iron Hand`s rooms in the Iron Temple.
[...]
Rewards at 90
Priest`s robes, large sum of money
Rewards at 100
Priest`s staff (grants a considerable bonus to Red Way)

This post inspired me most comments; although I never cared much for Laanx so far, to have an unforgiving, harsh religious faction is very enjoyable in a fantasy world.

My first comment applies to other submissions as well: don't give a large sum of money as the 1st reward (10 FP). Riches are for important and trusted members only; 5000 tria to every new face is neither sensible nor sustainable.
In fact, at this level, I would give either tria or FP. The choice is to take a reasonable payment for the given task, or to forfeit it as an offering to the cult, thus opening yourself a path for future favours.

In a general way, I believe rewards should be, as often as possible, openings towards new things, rather than magic trinkets and buffs. That without further closing the paths for other personal development (like reduced physical abilities, which makes no sense).

Back to the Iron Hand, and reading that the faction contains priests, warriors, and even assassins. You don't want everybody to try to become a priest, I suppose. So, the reward at 50 points is also a choice: choose the path of the priest or the path of the warrior (like crusaders or inquisitors or whatnot).

50 points reward:
Position as a student of sacred texts   or   Position as a warrior/monk trainee
Religious robe(s)   or   Religious surcoat
Access to libraries   or   Access to barracks
Acces to good CHA-skills teacher   or   Access to good combat teacher
70 FP reward:
Access to barracks   or   Access to libraries

90 FP reward:
Priesthood robe   or   Inquisitor armor

etc.

As a basis, I'd see the warrior path more physically rewarding, and the priest path more politically (and maybe financially) rewarding. Not so much about magic, which can be achieved through personal training anyway, or even through another faction.

PS: For religious factions' quests, I'd very well consider 1 or 2 pilgrimage quests, one at low level, one at higher level for example. Better leave that aside until the game map is larger, though.

Elvors

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Re: Factions As Real Organizations.
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2010, 12:35:32 pm »
Enemies should be generally consistent, but as Neko pointed out, it need not be a perfect symmetry.

To prevent misunderstandings like this, it might be a good idea to rephrase the faction relationships in terms of "A hates B" to "A loves B".

I.e. BF hates everybody, but nobody hates or loves them.

Oh, and I think there should be a secret organization that knows about BF. Otherwise, BF will simply win, hands down.