PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Granted or negated Wishes => Topic started by: Maisent on December 09, 2010, 11:00:19 pm
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Planeshift is getting really hard to play. I have a powerful character and I can kill almost anything, but when i start a new character this is what happens:
I start off with 10k from my main account. I go and buy a rockpick and start digging. I dig and dig and bearly get any ores at all. I sell it to anyone who wants it. I transfer a pair of Q 200 swords to my weaker alt and try killing some monsters. I can kill rats, kikiri's and little arangmas, but i only get 1 PP from them. So now i start with rogues.... It hit me even though i have leather on. I couldn't even hurt it.
Can we make it so that it is a lot easier to get PP and also money? If it had not been from that 10k and swords I wouldn't even be able to kill rats. Also without PP how am I supposed to level up my skill? And if i can't level up my skill then how am I supposed to take down bigger monsters for more PP? How am I supposed to make money? I get 1k from the tutuorial, i spend that on a pic axe. Now i've been playing for a while but if i were a noob ii dont think I will be able to know whre the heck the mines are. And mining is the only income for noobs because as I said, they can only kill little critters who's parts are worth about 10 trias.
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My first character was created last June. She is now looking for winch access to continue with most of her training. She has never had a pick axe wielded in her hands ever. Not sure what you are doing wrong dude.
- Nova
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My first character was created last June. She is now looking for winch access to continue with most of her training. She has never had a pick axe wielded in her hands ever. Not sure what you are doing wrong dude.
- Nova
Perhaps you have done a lot of quests, but quests take a long time to finish and needs travel aswell...At least for the good payed once. If a noob was to do a quest that needed traveling from Oja to Hydlaa for example, how would he/she/kra know where to go? And gossip is already a spoiler-free chat, Oja doesn't have many players. Also not everyone has a hours of playing time to play. I think maybe that's why noobs are quitting nowadays because it takes too long to train and get money.
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you skipped a lot of mobs in between rats and rogues that give good Pps and drop at a pretty good rate. you should try clackers, diseased rats jade clackers, coamtis the various forms of Arangmas work on up to wrathrats all before taking on a rogue.
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Perhaps you have done a lot of quests....
Nope. A couple of Talad Quests were required when she joined the BoT and then not another until winch access was required; and that has been in the last couple of weeks. So it is definitely not the quests.
One approach was to hunt mobs on the edge of her ability instead of, mindlessly, killing rats in one or two swings.
- Nova
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you skipped a lot of mobs in between rats and rogues that give good Pps and drop at a pretty good rate. you should try clackers, diseased rats jade clackers, coamtis the various forms of Arangmas work on up to wrathrats all before taking on a rogue.
Yes but would they drop as much PPs as rats? like 1 PP each? And if I were a newbie how would i know where those creatures live? I realize that the game is all about realism and that IRL when you are born you should't be able to know exactly where everything is, but nowadays It's just really hard to get money/PP from mobs if you are a noob. I'm just asking a small upgrade to loots and how much they cost, and rats to give higher PP than 1.
Nope. A couple of Talad Quests were required when she joined the BoT and then not another until winch access was required; and that has been in the last couple of weeks. So it is definitely not the quests.
One approach was to hunt mobs on the edge of her ability instead of, mindlessly, killing rats in one or two swings.
- Nova
What do you mean by hunt mobs instead of mindlessly killing rats in one or two swings?
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some of the mobs I mentioned will have more pps. The PPs you get will depend on how strong you are vs the mob. so if you are weaker the same mob will yield more pps and it will after you have trained up some of your stats. So my advice is work on your weapon skills first and armor skills and hold off on upping your physical stats so that mobs will yield more PPs.
As for finding the other mobs most of them can be found in the arena or in the sewers.
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just burn guile to death
duh
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Hmm... well, I'm pretty much a newbie (account created last weekend), although I did have an account a few years ago, but I never played it much, as I really didn't get hang of it. But now that I returned... it took me some hours to find the route to Ojaveda (which includes a glitch at the portal near river). I learned some mining to do the quest for the magician, and there the only problem was that the trainer I had to go to was in Ojaveda (found this out by asking), and not in Hydlaa, where my character started. The locations of sewers and Laanx dungeon I somewhat remembered, but I still get lost there (especially the sewers).
Training was a bit slow at first with rats (which can, at least in the tutorial, be killed even with bare hands, albeit that it takes a while), but I got a pleasant suprise when I attacked a Frost Arangma in the dungeon and was able to kill it with magic (and get 10 PP for it). Then again, I would never have been able to kill it with weapons, but... *shrugs* dunno. You also get a free pickaxe from the tutorial... why buy one?
All in all, I don't really know the point of this answer. To serve as newbies point of view, perhaps? I don't really think it's that difficult to start as a newbie, but it certainly asks for patience. :)
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some of the mobs I mentioned will have more pps. The PPs you get will depend on how strong you are vs the mob. so if you are weaker the same mob will yield more pps and it will after you have trained up some of your stats. So my advice is work on your weapon skills first and armor skills and hold off on upping your physical stats so that mobs will yield more PPs.
As for finding the other mobs most of them can be found in the arena or in the sewers.
I have been working on weapon skills first, and i stopped at lvl 5 daggers because i had no PPs, i went looking everywhere in Ojaveda for new monsters, all I could find were the ones giving 1 PP. Ojaveda is where my traininer is at and that's why I'm there. I would go to Hydlaa to trian, but the flight there is really expensive and if I walk i might get lost in the wilds
just burn guile to death
duh
I do not have magic.
Hmm... well, I'm pretty much a newbie (account created last weekend), although I did have an account a few years ago, but I never played it much, as I really didn't get hang of it. But now that I returned... it took me some hours to find the route to Ojaveda (which includes a glitch at the portal near river). I learned some mining to do the quest for the magician, and there the only problem was that the trainer I had to go to was in Ojaveda (found this out by asking), and not in Hydlaa, where my character started. The locations of sewers and Laanx dungeon I somewhat remembered, but I still get lost there (especially the sewers).
Training was a bit slow at first with rats (which can, at least in the tutorial, be killed even with bare hands, albeit that it takes a while), but I got a pleasant suprise when I attacked a Frost Arangma in the dungeon and was able to kill it with magic (and get 10 PP for it). Then again, I would never have been able to kill it with weapons, but... *shrugs* dunno. You also get a free pickaxe from the tutorial... why buy one?
All in all, I don't really know the point of this answer. To serve as newbies point of view, perhaps? I don't really think it's that difficult to start as a newbie, but it certainly asks for patience. :)
Now that there are pterosaurs I don't think noobs getting stuck in the wilds will matter much. Although pterosaurs are really expensive. About your getting lost, it took you some hours to find a city, what if a noob doesn't want to spend hours and hours just to find a city? Also, magic training is expensive. I think that people should be able to squish a simple frost arangma with a sword instead of buying a magic glyph and training that
Im just asking maybe make Planeshift easier to start with. I know there is the tutorial, but when they get into the real game it is way too difficult in the begining. I would have it so that it's easy to start (easy money and PP maybe) and as you go on it gets harder, instead of have it hardest in the beggining then get easier.
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What do you mean by hunt mobs instead of mindlessly killing rats in one or two swings?
More importantly is hunt mobs on the edge of your ability instead of, mindlessly, hunting sure kills. My experience is that the fight itself will be better for you than the actual kill. You will be getting weapon and armour experience all during the fight. If it is over in two swings you will not get that. One good drawn out battle will be worth 50 rats.
For armour training just find a mob that you will not kill when in defensive mode and they cannot kill you and stand there until you level up your armour. You may need a lot of armour repair that way yet it is a fast way to level in armour.
- Nova
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I would say that getting lost in the wilds is the key.
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This is somewhat :offtopic: but I keep hearing about pterasaurs and can't find them! WHERE ARE THEY?!?!?!
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What do you mean by hunt mobs instead of mindlessly killing rats in one or two swings?
More importantly is hunt mobs on the edge of your ability instead of, mindlessly, hunting sure kills. My experience is that the fight itself will be better for you than the actual kill. You will be getting weapon and armour experience all during the fight. If it is over in two swings you will not get that. One good drawn out battle will be worth 50 rats.
For armour training just find a mob that you will not kill when in defensive mode and they cannot kill you and stand there until you level up your armour. You may need a lot of armour repair that way yet it is a fast way to level in armour.
- Nova
I'm not talking about training. I'm talking about money and PP's. I think training is really easy and fast.
This is somewhat :offtopic: but I keep hearing about pterasaurs and can't find them! WHERE ARE THEY?!?!?!
Ask in game, but I will tell you where the hydlaa one is - Its behind the laanx temple.
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Simply put maisent, stop complaining, the devs 'know' that monsters are unbalanced, they are working on it [i assume]
I have 8-9 alts, all of them have not been train much yet, as they were used once or twice, back in 4.03 for one thing or another, however i've been on my alts a lot more recently and training them, one of my alts, started the game with around 40-60 in every stat, and 1 axe, 1 MA
I spent hours killing rats and kikiris, earned bout 2-4k bought strength, and axes from tra*** [spoiler block :)] Eventually i got axe to 12, and strength past 100, im still using the same axes i originally bought, by constantly repairing them, and no, i dont mine, on any of my chars. If you arent lazy you can easily train a character from scratch.
If you 'realy' nead a tip, you can buy a lv of magic, so your lv 1 or somthing, and by around 20 mana pots for mabey 3-4k then if you shoot at a dla** [spoiler :)] you can get around 2k or so pp anyone who just starts the game can do it, so its not cheating :P
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Note Earowo that standing on the wall, or behind a wall, in the arena to cast magic or ranged weapons at a mob is considered OOC. The arena is suppose to be for warriors to practice their fighting skills. IN other words you need to fight the arena mobs form a position where the Mob can get at you. Now standing on rocks, up up hills to cast magic at mobs is OK since that is hunting in the wilds taking advantage of terrain.
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Bad use of the words OUT OF CHARACTER, which would dictate that your character would not do that. It may be against arena rules, it may get you tossed out of the arena and is heavily against the rules, but let us not use the wrong word for it.
And so im not completely off topic, I find it just takes lots and lots of time to get PP and tria. Sure the game is extremely stacked against you in almost every way, and is almost actively trying to make sure you never gain a single coin nor level, with a little time and a tiny pinch of magic, you'll get to at least mid level.
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Note Earowo that standing on the wall, or behind a wall, in the arena to cast magic or ranged weapons at a mob is considered OOC. The arena is suppose to be for warriors to practice their fighting skills. IN other words you need to fight the arena mobs form a position where the Mob can get at you. Now standing on rocks, up up hills to cast magic at mobs is OK since that is hunting in the wilds taking advantage of terrain.
Sarva I already know that, and i have an answer to retaliate.
The NPC's have become smart enough, to where they go 'around' walls, i have already tested it, and monsters will go from one pit to another.
However, if you go on any sort of slope, that is 'just' steep enough, they stop dead in their tracks.
Anyways, with smarter AI, this becomes less ooc to attack from the other side of a wall, so its a shoot, and run kind of thing.
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Note Earowo that standing on the wall, or behind a wall, in the arena to cast magic or ranged weapons at a mob is considered OOC. The arena is suppose to be for warriors to practice their fighting skills. IN other words you need to fight the arena mobs form a position where the Mob can get at you. Now standing on rocks, up up hills to cast magic at mobs is OK since that is hunting in the wilds taking advantage of terrain.
Sarva I already know that, and i have an answer to retaliate.
The NPC's have become smart enough, to where they go 'around' walls, i have already tested it, and monsters will go from one pit to another.
However, if you go on any sort of slope, that is 'just' steep enough, they stop dead in their tracks.
Anyways, with smarter AI, this becomes less ooc to attack from the other side of a wall, so its a shoot, and run kind of thing.
that actually works? I never could get them to leave the pit :x
but glad to hear! actually I'm working a lot on that one recently and am trying to find a little workaround for the steepness issue (it's not just limited to the arena, especially the sewers are affected as some parts aren't walkable without jumping there)
but: prepare for the day where the NPC will actually walk all the way through the arena to actually get on that wall... (I already got it almost as far - it went from the pit to the upper center of the arena with "suited" parameters *chuckles*)
anyway, you're perfectly right. the better the AI gets, the less GMs will have to deal with such issues as they just won't pop up anymore (even though we're still very far away from NPCs running away if they can't reach you)
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I have only confirmed it with Tefusangs in the wild, but they are now navigating around objects to get at the attacker.
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If it will help RlyDontKnow, I've noticed several things about it.
1.) The monsters will go from one pit directly to the one next to it, they will go into the hallways between them.
2.) The will go up and down the stairs near Gregori [i think thats the right npc] In the arena's red room. Instead of jumping off of the ledge.
3.) They wont go upand down the stairs In the hallways, [the ones with expert glads] or the stairs the lead to the upper stands.
4.) I got a report from a Guild member that the ulbernuats at the ruins went 'around' the wall and killed him.
5.) Weather they climb up stairs depends on the angle of the slope [i believe] and they wont jump off ledges anymore.
6.) If you are at a lower Hight then any monster, they will not move, [EX: In the forest, if you are on the pathways, and shoot an arrow, at an arangma, up on the ledges to the side, they will move to the ledge and stop, or not move at all, if you jump, 'somtimes' the walk off the ledge.
Might have repeated somthing, excuse for that.
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Excuse me, but you guys are going :offtopic:
Simply put maisent, stop complaining, the devs 'know' that monsters are unbalanced, they are working on it [i assume]
I have 8-9 alts, all of them have not been train much yet, as they were used once or twice, back in 4.03 for one thing or another, however i've been on my alts a lot more recently and training them, one of my alts, started the game with around 40-60 in every stat, and 1 axe, 1 MA
I spent hours killing rats and kikiris, earned bout 2-4k bought strength, and axes from tra*** [spoiler block :)] Eventually i got axe to 12, and strength past 100, im still using the same axes i originally bought, by constantly repairing them, and no, i dont mine, on any of my chars. If you arent lazy you can easily train a character from scratch.
If you 'realy' nead a tip, you can buy a lv of magic, so your lv 1 or somthing, and by around 20 mana pots for mabey 3-4k then if you shoot at a dla** [spoiler :)] you can get around 2k or so pp anyone who just starts the game can do it, so its not cheating :P
you spent hours just getting 4k, and how did you get PP? you 'eventually' got to an axe level of 12 but you didn't say how long. It's not being lazy because I don't think anyone who just started in game would want to spend hours looting a bunch of chickens and getting 1 PP per kill. You have had experience with the game already, you know where to buy mana, you know how to kill dlayo's and you know where to get magic. A noob I once met said that she was stuck for over an hour looking for the city of hydlaa. Just looking for the city. Now imagine how long it would take them to find their swords training or w.e Also hwo long it would take them to realize that 4k per hours is nothing. You can bearly buy anything with that kind of money.
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Really Earowo it's obvious the devs cant be bothered balancing the mobs because to them it takes a few months, they would much rather implement new things to cover their tracks, ask Talad if a re-balance is coming in 0.6 I doubt it very much. Maisent isn't being lazy he just doesn't want to spend some hours that he could use productively on something else because he's just got much better things to do, obviously unlike you Earowo.
This seems to be a thread a lot like this one I started in Complaints Department. http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37650.0
Really I shouldn't have to use my funds from Vakachehk (main character) to fund another newer character of mine. So really it needs to be easier for lower levelled players not higher levelled players. The higher levelled players need to be able to kill a Tefusang or Ulbernaut easier than it is now, then people won't be using magic on walls or whatever in the arena, Sarva.
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Vakachek, simply put, your being a dumbass.
Maisent, to answer your question. to get to 12 axe, took llittle more then a day at most, [being 3 hours or so]
Yes as an older character, I am one who knows how to get PP as a newb, but im also one, who would help a new player 'get' that pp, for no charge, as unlike most people im generous I also tend to give out money, armor, and weapons, do i ask anything in return? not really.
No, getting PP from kikiris is not that hard, In oja, there are usually flocks of 8 or so kikiris, in each spot, yes you get 1 pp from them, but they are easier to kill then rats and supply more money, being that, you can kill one with a 50Q axe, in a simple 3-4 hits, the first few lv's of axe only cost 300-400 tria each, kikiri loot is worth 60 tria, when it comes down to it, getting loot from every kikiri, pays for axe decently, however at lv 12 axe, its costing me around 1.5k tria. so it is still inexpensive, however training stats and weapon and armor at the same time makes it take longer.
There is the fact that weapons wear out, and you have to repair clubs before you can repair anything [what happened to ebing able to do daggers?] but kits are only 100 tria, and my alts has the exact same axes as he started with 36/36Q and i can kill arangmas.
Unlike me, an all-out Non-miner, most people who start this game, are willing, and expecting, to be able to mine.
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Some Mobs were just adjusted downward in strength a couple of days ago. Trepors and Tefs are much easier now.
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Vakachek, simply put, your being a dumbass.
lol other way around.
That is good Sarva didn't actually realise that, but I think it takes more than just strength.
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Vakachek, simply put, your being a dumbass.
Maisent, to answer your question. to get to 12 axe, took llittle more then a day at most, [being 3 hours or so]
Yes as an older character, I am one who knows how to get PP as a newb, but im also one, who would help a new player 'get' that pp, for no charge, as unlike most people im generous I also tend to give out money, armor, and weapons, do i ask anything in return? not really.
No, getting PP from kikiris is not that hard, In oja, there are usually flocks of 8 or so kikiris, in each spot, yes you get 1 pp from them, but they are easier to kill then rats and supply more money, being that, you can kill one with a 50Q axe, in a simple 3-4 hits, the first few lv's of axe only cost 300-400 tria each, kikiri loot is worth 60 tria, when it comes down to it, getting loot from every kikiri, pays for axe decently, however at lv 12 axe, its costing me around 1.5k tria. so it is still inexpensive, however training stats and weapon and armor at the same time makes it take longer.
There is the fact that weapons wear out, and you have to repair clubs before you can repair anything [what happened to ebing able to do daggers?] but kits are only 100 tria, and my alts has the exact same axes as he started with 36/36Q and i can kill arangmas.
Unlike me, an all-out Non-miner, most people who start this game, are willing, and expecting, to be able to mine.
First off, if you are implying that I am not generous then you are a dumbass......I give away a lot of money to many newbs, I help them get PP and if i had your kind of money [you said 2 m] I would probably give away 50k each day....I have around 100k right now and im still giving away 10k per day.
Second, stop saying 'simply put' because its just dumb. Stop calling people names.
Third, Getting PP's IS hard tog et. there are 8 and you get like 8 PP per what? 10 minutes? + As I said I am not talking about repairing or training. What I am talking about is that as a noob, It is hard to play the game. RIGHT when you start it is the most difficult, I'm saying that couldn't the devs make it so that when you start the game it is a bit easier, then later on it get's tougher as they are more used to the game.
Also earowo, Don't call vakachehk a dumbass just because you can't respond to what he said.
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Thinking about most of this, what i think is funny, is that only people who have played for a while, half a year, or longer mabey, are the ones complaining about training their newb alts, while the new players who start the game, dont complain about anything other then crashes, lag, and things not implemented, and those are the things that are being worked on, sure a dev 'could' change the mobs stats/skills, pretty quikly, but there is preplanning, to it, to see what is reasonable, plus most of them have jobs and a family And with 6.0 coming out soon, or 5.5 whichever they wanna call it, im sure they would much rather meet the demands of new players, and implement skills, and places, rather then deal with monsters, which you dont seem to understand, are not in 'that' bad of shape.
SIMPLY PUT More skills, places, mobs, characters, lesslag, ect = more new players, who will most likely stay, if that means one or two people quit, so be it, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
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( :offtopic: )
What doesnt kill you, DIES HORRIBLY! :devil:
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No Earowo what you don't get is that the Newbes go "Well lag will get fixed soon and other things will get implemented soon too, so I'll complain about that" But the other people who hate the longness of trying to get PP just pack up and leave. So really you just dug a massive hole because you said more noobs into PS well more noobs will come if being a noob is easier to train higher.
In most normal and well successful games and I doubt PS will have a future if they don't do what these other games do, is that being a noob is easy but then it gets harder to level up as you go higher in the levels... right?
That's just it who wants Pottery, Masonry, Glass Blowing, etc when they need to fix the problems now and move on once they are read to move on, not implement all this crap and find out they need to do all this re-balancing. While everyone leaves because they have better things to do, than spend a lifetime on PS everyday.
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Thinking about most of this, what i think is funny, is that only people who have played for a while, half a year, or longer mabey, are the ones complaining about training their newb alts, while the new players who start the game, dont complain about anything other then crashes, lag, and things not implemented, and those are the things that are being worked on, sure a dev 'could' change the mobs stats/skills, pretty quikly, but there is preplanning, to it, to see what is reasonable, plus most of them have jobs and a family And with 6.0 coming out soon, or 5.5 whichever they wanna call it, im sure they would much rather meet the demands of new players, and implement skills, and places, rather then deal with monsters, which you dont seem to understand, are not in 'that' bad of shape.
SIMPLY PUT More skills, places, mobs, characters, lesslag, ect = more new players, who will most likely stay, if that means one or two people quit, so be it, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
Actually having more places, mobs and training skills will probably make OLD players stay. New players would probably quit because they have a hard time leveling up. Also, you are going :offtopic: . IDC if they are planning for 6.0 or 5.5. There are already enough monsters as it is, The wilderness is big enough to get a newb lost for hours, more skills will encourage PLing for the oldies and make newbies quit the game because it is too complex-looking. I suppose less crashes would encourage noobs to stay, but what is really getting them to quit is how hard the start of the game is.
SIMPLY PUT Easier starting game = More people willing to go forward and challenge themselves once they get used to the game......... MORE place, mobs, trainable skills = more complex planeshift
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No Earowo what you don't get is that the Newbes go "Well lag will get fixed soon and other things will get implemented soon too, so I'll complain about that" But the other people who hate the longness of trying to get PP just pack up and leave. So really you just dug a massive hole because you said more noobs into PS well more noobs will come if being a noob is easier to train higher.
In most normal and well successful games and I doubt PS will have a future if they don't do what these other games do, is that being a noob is easy but then it gets harder to level up as you go higher in the levels... right?
That's just it who wants Pottery, Masonry, Glass Blowing, etc when they need to fix the problems now and move on once they are read to move on, not implement all this crap and find out they need to do all this re-balancing. While everyone leaves because they have better things to do, than spend a lifetime on PS everyday.
That's what i'm trying to point out, not everyone has the time to play PS for hours and hours. Right now the hardest part of the game is when you are starting out, I think that is wrong, It should be easier until they get used to the game...THEN it gets tougher. Noobs will NOT stay in a game for over 5 hours just getting 1 PP each kill, or getting 4k trias per hour, which btw is nothing.
PS: Earowo, I am NOT complaining. Did you see this isn't in the complaint section?
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I think thats funny too, I know a lot of gamers, smart and dumb, and i know a lot of people who are less of gamers, and more of, a once in a while kind of person, but either way, haveing a game with more places, quests, skills, ect would lead to more people becuase its what people call, more hours of gameplay. Currently, what PS calls the RP server, includes people who, Train, Quest, RP, and Explore, All at the same time.
Now this game has had the same 4 cities for a few years, and Training questing, rp'ing, and exploring can only go 'so' far on that. Eventually you run out of quests, eventually you run out of skills that benifit your character, eventually there is no place to explaore, and eventually there isnt anything to rp about other then drinking a beer, thats when you get bored and leave, or start over with an alt. With added content, that makes it take longer to get bored.
On topic, Sarva has talked about training an alt before [either that or it was marathal]
She, like me, concluded, that training form scratch, without help from any alts, is easily done, I've seen many many new players, content with mining, killling rats, kikiris, coamtis, clackers, andforest arangmas. from what i've seen they only ever complain about the rats.
But it is almost impossible for a new player to play more then a week, without being invited to a guild, or handed handouts.
The fact that you are playing an alt, means you are subconsiously, denying certain handouts, from things you know ooc'ly, so that you can acomplish an alt for some RP purpose [i assume you are doing it for rp -__- ]
But new players who still need to learn things, gladly accept help, from everybody, and the ones who join PS for RP to begin with, tend to let that influence their character.
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What is this....I actually kind of agree with Maisent. This can only mean one thing...my opinion is incorrect! ;D
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@ Earowo
1st pharagrph: you are talking long term , I am talking about RIGHT when a player starts to play the game. IDC if the cities they have have been around for ages, the noobs don't know that and they certainly wouldn't think the world is small unless they have actually put up with the ridiculous amount of hours needed to train.
2nd paragraph: I'm on blackberry so I'm not sure what you wrote, but I think you said something about you and marathal both agreeing that it is super easy to train when a newb : some players may be satisfied with the usual coamti's and rats etc, but I think MOST new players will NOT spend HOURS of time to GAIN only a couple of thousands of trias. Why do you think PS bearly have any players ? Most I've seen this year was 60 ish. Its because the devs or whoever have made planeshift incredibly hard to play at the begining. When I was around 4 years ago there were many, many players onine and the maps were MUCH smaller, and there were LESS monsters, there was NO crafting, and magic was basically useless, and yet I ran into MANY newbies going around the wilds looking for hydlaa. See ? Its not about how short or long the game is, its about starting of the game, and I think nowadats its too difficult. Many years ago ,as I have said, there were so many newbs because planeshift was so basic and easy to play, now its just really complex and difficult.
To the person that said something about agreeing with me : don't post if you don't have anything nice to say.
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When I started I was scared to go to Hydlaa because the wilderness is so big, I was scared to also go to Hydlaa because I knew I would probably get lost there. I never thought it was too small I thought it was the opposite. But yes players coming from WoW or other huge RPGs will probably find PlaneShift a little small but not at the first moment of entering (not in the first 10 hours a game time in which Talad has said to me on IRC that most noobs stop playing within the first 10 hours of playing) but really I do think that balancing is far more important and crucial to the future of PS than adding in areas or other new things.
Just so you know Earowo it takes different devs to make new areas instead of ordinary devs. Now that you know my brother was an Art dev and he said it's like climbing Mt. Everest barefoot and nakid to get a map into PS because they are so fussy but so annyoing to work with, for example my brother made Dsar Kore he fully finished it and gave it to Talad to implement Talad goes, "Nahh change this, that and the other thing" about 100 times later it finally gets considered. That is why PlaneShift is lacking so many Art Devs and new areas are taking along time to get implemented, for example where's Amdeneir? Baldur was doing lots of work on it then Zwentholo now it's mostly Nikodemus and a little from LigH doing a wilderness map. Just so you know there has been more devs leave PlaneShift in the last year than in a McDonalds restaurant.
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When I first started, I was lucky enough to meet a friend of mine (IRL) IG, so he taught me all the stuff and where to go...But when he was offline I got lost, didn't know what to do and mostly went around Oja talking to people OOC in main.
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Why do you think PS bearly have any players ? Most I've seen this year was 60 ish. Its because the devs or whoever have made planeshift incredibly hard to play at the begining.
This is not neccisarily true, I have yet to meet anyone new, [that made it out of the tutorial] that quit becuase the game was too hard, how often they played varied, but they still ha no problem with the game. The lack of players has to do with PS being non-profit.
Becuase it is non-profit, the only advertisement they can really get, are websites of players, And i highly doubt any players websites, get a lot of hits, most of the time people find planeshift on accident, or becuase a friend told them about it.
for example where's Amdeneir? Baldur was doing lots of work on it then Zwentholo now it's mostly Nikodemus and a little from LigH doing a wilderness map.
I actually read the topic about amdeneir, from the first post in like 2005-2006, becuase i wanted to know more about it one day, and the real reason why it wasnt implemented, was becuase it was taking too long to creat the whole city, and they missed the due date, they are 'still' working on it, not becuase talad told them to change it, but becuase amdeneir is going to be huge!
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i agree with maisent
even if there are so many players that are able to easily level up, yet there are also many who find it difficult, there IS something wrong with the game. some players are luckier than others. some players don't join guilds. some players don't have hours to play every day. if PS wants more players, it must cater to everyone and all playing styles.
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i agree with maisent
even if there are so many players that are able to easily level up, yet there are also many who find it difficult, there IS something wrong with the game. some players are luckier than others. some players don't join guilds. some players don't have hours to play every day. if PS wants more players, it must cater to everyone and all playing styles.
:thumbup: nicely put there Sarras! We're not saying that it has to be all perfectly balance and polished we are saying to make it easier... Simply put ;)
@Earowo you don't get it, you wont meet them because they get in the game and go "oh stuff this it's to hard to play", they leave and they never come back, that why you don't meet them ;). I have been told by Talad directly that with new players most of them quit within the first 10 hours of game play. There are a lot of new players that join up with PS I could get around 3 newish players to join KIC a week, if I tried hard and that's just on Enkis alone. I've heard Weltall tell me that Enki are only the 3rd most popular race (Human, Klyros, Enki, Dawrf, Elven/Kran) so there for around 12-14 new player a week. Probably most of them get stuck in the Tutorial.
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Planeshift needs to make it either:
1) cost nothing to level up
2) bring back the Gug mining spot
3) rework their entire gameplay
I would recommend #3
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I assume the bring back gug mining spot would mean put platinum back, but its not gone, its just in a different place, have fun finding it :)
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I still think this could be better accomplished not by decreasing general difficulty (i.e. the time you take to max) but by decreasing the difficulty of the first levels. People like challenges, so they won't dig too much of a game where everyone maxes in a day, but they don't want to take a month each time they want to learn a new spell either. However if when they first play the game they can level fast and try new stuff with it (monsters, spells, etc.) then they'll get the momentum needed to overcome the much harder levels that will ensue.
Bringing back mines is, to me, a lazy solution to make earning tria easier. Minings already one of the best ways of making income, so instead of making it even more profitable, it'd be better if that happened in other activities.
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I still think this could be better accomplished not by decreasing general difficulty (i.e. the time you take to max) but by decreasing the difficulty of the first levels.
That seems like a good compromise Sangwa. It makes sense to me on an RP server that levelling is a slow pace. This seems to support a notion of long term play and lots of time to develop the character RP-wise while slowly advancing the skills and stats to match the development.
Much of the complaining seems to me to be from folks that have a picture of where the character is going to go and wants to get there instead of letting the character evolve through RP and other IC experience.
Your suggestion, Sangwa, would give new players time to settle down a little from PLing into RP and slow and steady character skills and stats development.
- Nova
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I still think this could be better accomplished not by decreasing general difficulty (i.e. the time you take to max) but by decreasing the difficulty of the first levels. People like challenges, so they won't dig too much of a game where everyone maxes in a day, but they don't want to take a month each time they want to learn a new spell either. However if when they first play the game they can level fast and try new stuff with it (monsters, spells, etc.) then they'll get the momentum needed to overcome the much harder levels that will ensue.
Bringing back mines is, to me, a lazy solution to make earning tria easier. Minings already one of the best ways of making income, so instead of making it even more profitable, it'd be better if that happened in other activities.
That'swhaat i'm trying to point out... Make the first few, starting moment, easier then eventually become harder when you get used to the gameplay
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And you pointed it out so perfectly I stole your idea.
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As an actual new player who came into this game with no preconceptions (albeit a dedication to open source software, and some development experience), I agree with those saying the learning curve is impossibly steep for new players.
My personal experience has been as follows:
The tutorial was fairly generous with Tria, and also gave me a shortsword as a quest reward. Once I got out, I was ready to go and get some sword training and start becoming a warrior. Oops... I have no idea where a sword trainer is. After asking around, I did find the sword trainer, and trained sword. I also bought a longsword, and spent most of my tria thinking it would be easy to make that much back (i mean, if the tutorial gave me 4200 or so...).
Boy was I wrong.
With a short sword in one hand, a longsword in the other, I was able to kill one eyed rats with ease. Diseased rats, clackers, and virtually every other mob except one-eyed rats were absolutely unhittable, and even in bloody stance I could not penetrate them. No matter. After a couple hours killing rats, I had made a couple thousand trias, trained another level of swords, but was doing LESS damage per hit. I looked into the problem, and found my swords were diminishing rapidly in quality. Damn...
I thought I might repair them... nope, even with a couple points in repair weapons (after buying some clubs and working on them) I still can't repair them, and merchants don't offer a repair service (why the hell can't Harnquist fix my sword for me?). Even if I were to run around asking players to fix my stuff for me, most new players will get turned off by being so helpless. So now as a brand new player, I've sunk all my money into training swords, I can't make money fast enough to replace the swords, and lack the skill to repair the sword the tutorial gave me (think about how bad that is in terms of game design...). In other words, I'm losing money by hunting, and actually my damage keeps going down as my sword's durability declines.
Any sane player would give up at this point, as nothing has instructed them to get magic, the only thing that I can kill is rats who don't even drop enough tria to train my weapon repair skill, and still I have to spend money and levels repairing clubs to level up that skill just so I can sustain my sword training!
The only reason I got past the first two hours of play is by reading a guild website full of spoilers that directed me to kill Kikiri, which drop feathers and meat at a much higher rate (and resell value) than rats. Even then, I had to run from Oja to Hydlaa to train, as my weapon level is too low to get training in Oja.
So let's make a list.
1) Tutorial gives me a choice of weapons that decay within the first two hours of gameplay.
2) There's no way a newbie could repair those weapons, or afford the training to learn how to repair those weapons based upon what they are capable of hunting.
3) Even with the tria given by the tutorial, most newbies will blow it buying weapons and armor rather than training clubs or unarmed (the only viable newbie weapon skills)
4) There are only two mobs for newbies to grind, and one of them is in a higher level city (Oja), and the other doesn't drop enough tria to allow them to train and repair their weapons (Rats).
5) The quests and process of learning magic are too convoluted for new players.
6) I decided to try and make some money for crafting. With 1 rank in mining, I unearthed 8 iron ore in one hour of digging. Looking over my chat log, I had one successful dig for every 12-14 unsuccessful digs (and this is a nice sample size). You think a noob is going to stand there all day digging iron with that kind of success rate?
In short, no sane player would stick with this game for more than a few hours. Most newbies don't want to run around begging for help. Most expect there to be a gradual increase in difficulty as they progress, but to be hit with absurd difficulty and impossible progression right of the bat is bad design.
Fixes:
1) Why is mining so hard? The crappy stuff like coal and iron should be relatively easy for newbs, while the higher level ores should be difficult even for the most trained miner. It makes absolutely no sense.
2) Why do newbie weapons decay so fast, and why is weapon repair so difficult and expensive? Give Harnquist an option to repair weapons for a rate affordable by a newbie.
3) Why be so stingy with giving tria to new players? Why not up the number of drops, or value of drops for One-eyed rats? The only people killing them are new players, and new players currently can only kill ONE MOB IN THE ENTIRE GAME unless they run to Oja.
I mean, if you like having less than 100 people per server, leave it how it is. Only the tiniest minority of people are sticking with this game beyond a few hours.
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I had a similar problem when I started, but I made money by mining, then just bought new weapons, never tried to repair old ones, either way, I went magic instead, much easier to farm PP, except leveling magic will drain your money so fast, it's like you never even had any cash to begin with, however, you don't end up in an endless cycle of repairing weapons and killing things, hopefully being able to afford training on the way.
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Maybe this could be fixed with giving new players more informations to begin with. Joining a guild or using the /help channel also might help.
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As an actual new player who came into this game with no preconceptions (albeit a dedication to open source software, and some development experience), I agree with those saying the learning curve is impossibly steep for new players.
<snip>
6) I decided to try and make some money for crafting. With 1 rank in mining, I unearthed 8 iron ore in one hour of digging. Looking over my chat log, I had one successful dig for every 12-14 unsuccessful digs (and this is a nice sample size). You think a noob is going to stand there all day digging iron with that kind of success rate?
This post was referenced in a currently active post, http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40426.msg453975#msg453975 and my anecdote is relevant to both but to this post more directly, I think, so I'll post here despite the age.
My anecdote is about a perspective recruit put off by the mechanics. My wife plays almost every game I do, perhaps not as much on some and more on others, but we like to mostly do things together. With a new game I'll usually get started and give her the cliff notes version so she doesn't have to read through a lot of often confusing directions.
So a few weeks ago, when I'd been playing for 20 or 25 hours, she sat with me to watch. I mined 5 ore for Harnquist, killed a couple of rats for tria and PP, and tried to repair the 10 or so points of damage my clubs took.
It took an hour.
By the end she was incredulous "Wow, that is the most booring video game I've ever seen you play"
"Yeah, but it's supposed to get better when you get to higher levels"
"How long will that take?"
"I don't know, I've been playing a couple dozen hours, and I have maybe half a dozen of the 30 skills up to 1 or 2 percent of max, so probably quite a while. But it would go a lot faster if you joined me and we could chat while we did it"
"Yeah, right. I'd rather do something more exciting, like paint some minatures and watch them dry"
Fast forward a few weeks, I've got another couple dozen hours under my beltand have a few skills to 5 or 6, and some stats into the 70s. More ore, more rats, more repair. Maybe I've got it down to half an hour or 40 minutes. I could tell she was struggling to keep an open mind, but her pronouncement was hardly a surprise "You're on your own on this one, this is way too slow and booring for me"
This is doubly sad. It's sad because she is a player almost certainly lost to the game forever, but it's also sad because the game can never be a primary game for me without her. People who are not enthusiastic role players can still contribute significantly to the game, even just providing a social fabric. What acting troup wants to play to an empty house? I've provided an extreme example, but how many people wander off because the the server is just too empty? Who would have stayed if there were more people, even if those people were OOC half the time? Just seeing someone working at the forge or cooking in the kitchen while I talk to the NPC adds atmosphere and improves the experience.
I think the enthusiastic role players are seen as the best the game has to offer, the shining grapes on a young vine. I think people forget, though, that while you can afford to prune many leaves to encourage the grapes to grow, if you prune too many the grapes will wither and die.
I realize I'm a newcomer, and I've just admitted that I'm probably not going to be a dedicated fan, so my opinion probably won't cary much weight. But an open source community developed MMO is idealogically appealing to me, and I hope the time I've taken here can help the game in the long run.
Thank you
Tlok
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But an open source community developed MMO is idealogically appealing to me, and I hope the time I've taken here can help the game in the long run.
It would have been nice to pre-arrange an RP with members of the all female DoX Guild and your wife, take her to the Ball on a Date Night, anything but an evening in the sewers. No wonder the girl turned you down! :)
- Nova
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The best use of the developers time in this forum is to pay attention to sincere input, such as what Tlok has provided above. As long as the roleplay canard is being used to beat newcomers to death, the number of active players who desert PS after an introductory period will remain constant or increase.
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Well since the servers being updated with mount quests, I'll toss in the 'old mans' 2 cents worth.
To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, lets just say I'm a casual gamer (computer games) and was an avid AD&D 2eder back when 2nd was the current edition. I stayed away from the 'Pay to Play MMORPG, cause I couldn't/didn't like the concept. You pay 60$ for a game and they want what a month??? that concept.
I had toyed with MUD's cause a friend of mine who was into role playing, was into that, and I figured I could go old school. The first evening was kill rat, kill rat, kill rat, then go get healed, repeat about 1,000 times... (8hrs later) oh your level 2... Everyone seeming on the board was like level 200+
It makes you wonder, just how long do these people play these games, how many hours, just to hang out on the same level as the experienced folks.... years. And the funny thing is, they where complaining that "Monsters aren't tough enough". There I was spending 8 hours killing rats just to make level two, and thats with out having to "Repair" any weapons or armor.
This is the main factor mud's have a small following. After you put in years into it... well old habbits. The concept of hey 'spend the day RPing" ends up 'No ones on so lets kill something'.
Granted, I don't expect to become "Conan the indestructible warrior" in an hour or a week. But then I dont want to have to play a game for a year at 8 hours a day, just to get up there to hang out with the 'old timers' and adventure with them.
Like I said, I'm a casual gamer, that just discovered Planeshift, and I like it despite the bugs. There are a lot of really good things here.
Planeshift seems to suffer from the MUD problem. I seem to spend half the time trying to figure out "HOW" do do something than actually doing it. The "You fist should do this... then this... then this." isn't very easy to grasp for the new comer. Thankfully the folks in the gossip have been very helpful getting me started. I now know where to mine for gold, how to cash it in, then go and train my "Music instrument" and practice practice.... repeat for the past 3 days, hey I got level 13.... out of who knows how many. Having to play a song about 10 times to make a level. And thats with about a total of 18 hrs of game play. (roughly) Let alone editing music, then play it to check the notes... hehe good luck there. ( :beta: yeah i know [Just a suggestion, when it edit mode, play the notes correctly at least to the player, so if we transpose some 'public domain/traditional' music we can hear it to double check the work])
Also, yes i can agree, the leveling system needs to be quicker. Perhaps a simple cap say 100, and measure it out from there, or some kind of bell curve. Like if it was old D&D, 1-7 goes really quick. 8-12 twice as long, 13-15 three times as long and 16-18 10 times as long. At least show the range of numbers so we know what the top level is. (lables... need lables. 60 [icon] 300 .... Im still not sure whats the price, whats the quality.
As far as "Joining a guild" sounds all well and good, till you remember some important real life facts, not all of us are on the same schedule, interests very a lot, some stay for a short wile others long, let alone time zones etc. Guilds should not be a necessity, but a 'bonus'. (my two cents) not all of us are going to devote endless hours to it, or bother with joining a guild.
As far as the repair goes... yeah I can agree with that. I blew through my swords in 8 hours IRL, only to find no npc to 'fix' them, and the weapons kit... oh wait "Your skill isnt good enough for that" then I find out its only 75%? The advice (which i got from the gossip channel) go train weapons repair, get a pair of clubs, go down and beat up some rats, oh and get some weapons repair kits. kill rat... kill rat... kill ratt.. repair. Don't pick on the diseased ones there tougher than the healthy ones (WTF with that). Then I come up side to see a magical and combat fireworks display (which was pretty cool) then oh why don't i try music... So now I got chores to do before I can play a simple melody with out error. Then I'll go back to club rat, club rat club rat. With hope by next year i can kill something other than a rat and a chicken wanna be.
I don't mean to sound gruff, that isn't my intention, but to grab a 'casual gamers' attention, they/we need a lot of hand holding. And to be able to do something other than kill rat for months. So he's got a very valid point there.
The REALLY big suggestion I have, instead of "Adding tons of more quests," cap some levels, rework the older ones, and do some changes so that it accommodates, both the casual player, and the die hard been here for years.
So my list of Suggestions
- on quests, check to see if the character is capable of completing it. (has the right level in skills etc) *
- Curve the "Training" so at the beginning you "Level up" to something decent that at least you can "RP a warrior who has seen some experience" as apposed to 'Kormak the rat slayer' then make it tougher for those at the higher end to make their levels. Thus allowing new folks time to catch up to them to at least adventure.
- Fix sitting **
- Make the road to Oja (road 1) a bit more ovbious ***
- Get a spokesperson NPC rework to be the default 'go to' for us new folks.****
- And I need a phez.... ok, well at least some kind of hat. I found found leather armor (no hat ovb), found chain (no chain helms or any other kind) but where the heck do you find hats/Helms?
* I ran the "Battle Token" quest, ok back and forth... oh wait you need a Gold Ingot... one wasn't offered nor a clue where I was supposed to find one, then I remembered the tutorial, Iron ore into the Iron Ingot... ok. Managed to discover the 'gold field' picked up some gold ore. Went to the furnace... poof. Had to ask help of another player totaly to melt it into an ingot (cause apperently I wasnt skilled enough) to do so. The NPC should have either supplied me with a gold nuget, or money to pay for the work to be done not just handed me a note with directions on what to make, or clued me in where to get one for him. So there should be some kind of basic 'check' for each quest. Does the character have the supplies or skills, or at least a clue to where to go and what to do next. Thats just an example. Ask around doesn't help at all with a bucket load of NPC's and 'I don't know about that' high frustration factor. The checks are OOC for game play, not in character. I found other 'quests' like that. Not to mention the music trainer over in Gug, says he can train me to play, and is willing, but its not a pop up option but he can sell me a lute...
** Fix sitting :beta:
Its a nag bit yes. Hopefully this is getting worked on, but in my opinion, been one of the bigger priorities when the maps where first made. something like. If chair, sit in chair. a 'default size' chair would do it. If no chair assume the normal sit position. Seeing people spralled out over a table and chairs... Way odd. This way you get to show your stuff for the RPers who just want to sit with a low level character and RP.
*** Road to Oja
The sign posts was a good idea, at least it points in the cardinal direction of where I need to be. The road to Gug, good. I know where i want to go, and its obvious which way. There is a realism, yes but theres also game-play/frustration. Since so many of the 'beginning quests' are to the road to Oja, and we don't have mounts, and its going to be a long time before we get one. (I have yet to figure out how to 'travel' there via merchant, as its not obvious in the least bit. (see **** for a possible solution)) But perhaps a say sold color path from the spire to Hydlaa for us newbies hence a reference that wont 'vanish'. I know theres lots to do on oja 1. but starting players leave the city with a "I need to go to this place called Oja-whatever" then you go out a ways and the road well vanishes. Seems like 99% of the quests I found so far have me running back and forth between oja and Hydlaa. It took me about 8 trips before I worked out a solution to the 'not get turned around', and I'm RUNNING the whole way so its finger holding time, or "R" and corse correct. and this is a long way, and if you get lost or turned around, it gets a lot longer. I'm talking for game play purposes, not the "Well they wouldnt know" factors.
**** A spokes person NPC
This is a "Spokes person" for either the city, or the game. Newbies can go to this guy, and get help or advice when starting the game. Advice like "So you want to be an adventurer eh? What field do you want?" say 'A fighter', then "You need to get a pair of clubs, train your 'weapons repair' with (npc) get some weapons repair kits, and start off with the rats/chickens but stay away from the diseased ones. Now your weapons will get dull, and the quality will go down quickly but that repair skill will bring it up to 75%. Now if you need money, theres a few options... sub menu"
This way us Newbies who need the hand hold, don't have to go to the older guys to ask the basics. Make this guy/girl BLATANTLY obvious. IE point to him several times in the tutorial. This way we get the, 'Do this for money' 'Do this to train' 'do this to level up' 'do this to fix your gear or buy new'
Its with this guy you can put the 'hey that storage feature!, it works great, doesn't cost a k, see X in hydlaa, see X in Oja etc.
And put him some place where there can be a crowd around him, a kind of reference for the casual player who may fire it up once a week or a month.
Thats my take after playing for a week. Its not a complaint etc. Kind of a take from it what you will leave the rest, and I do intend to stick around. I've already told a few friends and one of them used to work at dream works doing CG animation. Hopefully i can convince him to lend his skills to the project. I'm also pretty good at making manuals to boot, I just have to fully understand the subject matter first (and its got to be stable).
PS, I love the feline race, especially the tail idol animation. \\o// If I can figure out how to skin the Gui, then... well they need a revamped skin. So many things so little time.
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Don't pick on the diseased ones there tougher than the healthy ones (WTF with that).
So someone else has noticed this interesting paradox ;)
You amuse me. Come poke me in-game sometime.
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They have extra eyes so they can avoid damage better. They should be call mutant rants, really, but a mutation can be considered a genetic disease, no?
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I also bought a longsword, and spent most of my tria thinking it would be easy to make that much back (i mean, if the tutorial gave me 4200 or so...).
Boy was I wrong.
LOL!!! Ding! You win the prize!
This really sucks when you are brand spanking new. You see that initial chunk of change vanish, your health drops to near-dead. Mana is taped and you can't heal yourself because you are out of potions. You wonder why the rat is now kicking your ass. ( not realizing that you wore your sword and armor to 1/50 and that you have not been training your skills or stats ) You need tria, but can't seem to earn more than you need to spend. You don't want to ask that dude in plate armor with the horned helmet next to you for help or tips because he'll probably call you a stupid noob... so you think...
Now, I'm going to hop on the opposite side of the fence for a change.
When you are in this sort of dire predicament, and another player comes along and heals your character, gives you a new short sword and a few tips on how to advance.... or they pay you big money to spy on someone - or set them up for a mugging, you suddenly start to bond with that player. ( Notice, I haven't begun to harp about role playing yet ). There is a huge opportunity for mildly-experienced and veteran players to help and facilitate this bonding at this point of the game. If the new player could do everything on his own steam ( as with a single player rpg ) then he/she/it would never need to reach out and connect. If that player never bonds with the other players, he/she/it might as well not exist.... after all, its a Multiplayer game - not a single player game.
As much as I would like to see the game made easier for the noob-in-training, I think there is some value in needing the help of other players.
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Hey Rigwyn, not sure if you are just trying to promote RPing or trying to get some spies to help you out :innocent:
Either way, I still agree with you. Albiet, there are some more experienced players that might not give noobs the time of day, but I think most would be and will be more then willing to help them out.
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As much as I would like to see the game made easier for the noob-in-training, I think there is some value in needing the help of other players.
Well put! That observation seems to go to the heart of most of these type of threads.
- Nova
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Hey Rigwyn, not sure if you are just trying to promote RPing or trying to get some spies to help you out :innocent:
Either way, I still agree with you. Albiet, there are some more experienced players that might not give noobs the time of day, but I think most would be and will be more then willing to help them out.
Actually, I've recently started trying to get new players involved in such a way. Something as simple as spying, delivering a message or item, or luring someone to a certain spot is something anyone can do and it will give you a feel for how well that player role plays and where they might need help while providing them with needed resources and a chance to get their feet wet with RP. In my case, the fact that the new player is unknown can be an asset. Those who RP differently might have other reasons to be equally interested in new players.
Ooops... derailed the topic a bit there...
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How do you distinguish between a new player and someone posing as a new player? I do not mind helping new players at all but I get rather annoyed at veterans wasting my time.
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It would be more on good faith.. that's sad if veteran players would do that.
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When you are in this sort of dire predicament, and another player comes along and heals your character, gives you a new short sword and a few tips on how to advance.... [snip] you suddenly start to bond with that player.
The problem is you can't make a game predicated on the charity of more advanced players. There is no sane way to assure that aid swoops in before they log off forever. Practicalities aside, I don't even agree with the premise, that newbies should be rendered helpless then exploited for the enjoyment of higher level chars. What stops you from talking to the newb before he was destitute and needed your help?
People will roleplay when they feel confident enough to engage with the characters around them, which will be faster if the system isn't busy kicking their ass. Sorry, but I keep hearing RP answers to technical problems.
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There is a reason why I haven't trained any skills in months. At this point the only reason I'm still around is the Role play aspect. I would love to see some better mechanics though. I agree completely on how hard it is to start a new character. In fact I have a friend who started playing, but was completely derailed when the rats in the tutorial started to chase him in circles (He took a video of it too). The fact that a rat chases you around is... Well its honestly just very frustrating.
Like so many others playing now, I don't know why I kept going. I'm glad I did though. Since then I've tried to train a little bit, but its taken hours to get to the point where I'm 'A mediocre fighter who is intelligent as a stone'. So after a little combat training being boring and time consuming, I decided that I would rank up more job skills instead. It takes more then 100 fish to rank up from fishing level 7 to level 8. Even after I find a good place, and just hit a shortcut over and over again, it takes at least an hour. Its just not fun.
If I wasn't drawn into Roleplay early, then I wouldn't have been around for very long at all. The trouble is that some people want to play a character who is half way decent at breathing, and want to be able to have the in game stats to show that. Yet, every one who comes to Hydlaa for the first time is a squishy, unintelligent bit of rat food.
That being said, I love Planeshift. I want to see it grow, And I don't think it will until this is fixed. Right now there is a very definite training bell curve. Its just upside down. I humbly suggest for the growth of the game, and community that has been there for me so many times that:
- New characters to start out with more skills, in specialized areas based on background. I think that 20 points in a few skills, and base stats at 100 that the game would be much more fun
- The training bell curve to be reversed, where its easy to get PP at low skill levels, and harder at higher
- That the prices for items are returned to the original tria guide (Mugs of beer for 2 tria, 50q long swords at 35, etc.)
- And that Roleplay be easy to access for everyone. This needs to be done by the players though. I've tried to do my part and talk to a few new players, and even give them some stuff to start out with, but more needs to be done. If the great roleplay community can band together and get the ball rolling with even the smallest "Oh hi there what are you making at the forge?" then the game can be so much better.
I have lots of hope for Planeshift. It has the potential to be great. But things have to change first. Thanks to all who contribute :)
Also... If you want some less shady work to start out with, check out the Stonehead. We're always looking for new members :) http://stoneheadps.freeforums.org/index.php (http://stoneheadps.freeforums.org/index.php)
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I agree with your point of view thalaric: the game needs some improvement in the first 10-20 hours of gameplay.
RP is good and helpful for new players. I help new players too when I can, and when I was a newbie I was helped and I'm still grateful for that, but please consider that it is also possible that there can be not many players around when a newbie begins (for example due to different timezones some hours lack many players).
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It would be more on good faith.. that's sad if veteran players would do that.
Why would? Arguably, it would be muling if you use another of your characters to push your new one - and you only do the tutorial once per account (unless you delete all characters).
Not all new players use to forums, so a presence list would be superflous. And unless mechanics are done and balanced, this game will not get any easier in the beginning.
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The problem is you can't make a game predicated on the charity of more advanced players. <snip> Practicalities aside, I don't even agree with the premise, that newbies should be rendered helpless then exploited for the enjoyment of higher level chars. <snip>
Really well said, and I'd like to add support from a different angle - think about why people play games in the first place. While S&M clubs prove that a percentage of the population enjoys being in a submissive or dependent role, the majority of people do not and will not come play a game that forces them into that role. They come to FRPGs to be heroes (or powerful villains), to be the ones helpless townspeople come to for salvation or mercy.
People will roleplay when they feel confident enough to engage with the characters around them, which will be faster if the system isn't busy kicking their ass. Sorry, but I keep hearing RP answers to technical problems.
Exactly this. People want to play on an equal footing with their peers, not as lackeys or charity cases. Let them come up to speed before you make them merge with traffic.
Making new players depend on established players may shorten the time it takes some of those players to get acclimated, but it will drive many more away. And the ones whose acclimation period is shortened likely would have become acclimated very nearly as quickly if the game simply encouraged and reminded rather than required interaction with established players. So this forced dependency seems like an approach with slim profits and huge losses for new players, yet it appears, on the forums anyway, to be widely espoused.
And I'd like to remind the developers that a potential player evaluating the game will have access to the forums but not to resources like the "meet the devs in the guildhall" events, so even if you're clear about your goals there it's worth posting summaries or reminders here.
Thank you,
Tlok
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Hi,
I agree with the issue of one-eyed rats in tutorial, I've reviewed their stats and made those quite easier to defeat. They now have 15 HP instead of 60 and their melee skill is reduced. I tested with two different characters, one very low in physical stats and lemur, another high in physical stats and kran. Obviously with the kran is no match, but I think that's ok. This change is effective as soon as the server restarts (30 minutes from now).
The other comments in this thread a too generic.
I will move this thread to the "granted wishes" section, but feel free to open another with some "specific" points you want to see improved in the first 10-20 hours of gameplay. The more specific is the request, the easier to have it implemented.