PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oomi on October 05, 2009, 09:20:21 pm
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Our hope is that this post will help guide those who wish to RP BlackFlame knowledge, either as a BF neophyte, a BF devotee, or a "regular" citizen. First, let me start with some info from former Settings prospect UndertheMoon. I will add info throughout:
Q: What is the Black Flame?
A: That is an answer you will not get. I do favor plot twists and secrets. The only answer you will get here is that it is real.
Yes.
Q: Can my character mention it, then?
A: Sure you can. In the same way you would talk about the boogieman or vampires in the real world. The name is NOT completely unknown. It is commonly known. To most of the general population, the Black Flame is something to tell to children to scare them. "The Black Flame comes to get little boys who don't eat their savory stew."
However, BF is devoted to avoiding serious public interest. If they even suspect that you know more than you should, if they even have a glimmer of an idea that your tales are more than just a story to quiet the children before bed, then your life (and those of your family) may well be forfeit. BF protects its own; I suggest you do the same.
Q: So I should not be afraid of it?
A: Not quite. Even adults have superstitions and fears, and Black Flame is a strong one. Even though most people believe that the Black Flame is a wives' tale, there will still be that tiny bit of doubt that keeps them from mentioning it while walking in the dark. That "what if...?" that tickles the mind and causes grown men to laugh nervously at its mention while the wind howls outside. Sure, you know there is nothing waiting under your bed when you go to sleep, but it never hurts to check, right?
Yes (as long as you aren't one, that is).
Q: What about the guards? I hear they haul away people who say they are Black Flame worshipers...
A: Well, if you lived in a highly religious community and someone tried to start a Vampire cult next door with the intention of killing people and sucking blood, what would you do? Vampires don't really exist, but the intention to do bad things because of the idea of them does. That is what the people believe. They still don't believe in the Black Flame, but believe that anyone who would claim to follow it is someone to fear.
Since, by nature, BF is a society bent on stealth, why on Yliakum would you trust some random guard with wild tales of BF when that very guard may secretly be serving BF? Extreme caution, complete ignorance, or silent service are your only salvation.
Q: What do the guards know?
A: Guards might know more than the general population, but will not tell you if Black Flame is real or not. They will tell you the same thing as most people believe. Black Flame is the boogieman, a tall tale that some fools believe in.
Yes. Also, see above.
Q: And those higher than the guards?
A: That is not for you to know.
Indeed.
Q: So, what if I say my character fights the Black Flame.
A: What if you told me you fought vampires in real life? That's right. Ridicule. Same as if you say you believe vampires are real.
Either ridicule or sudden death or complete character defamation await you, depending on who hears you and how seriously they take you.
Q: So, let me get this straight. The Black Flame is real, some of the guards and government know it is real, but most people think it is made up... kind of like aliens in real life?
A: If we lived in the X-Files, the answer would be yes. Black Flame is the evil grays, or those creepy oil guys.
OOC - BF is quite real. IC - if you aren't a servant of BF, you a) play that it's all a nasty fairytale b) keep your mouth shut or c) suffer. IC- if you are a servant of BF you a) keep your mouth shut or b) suffer.
Q: What about the history and all that talk about Kadiakos and the Black Flame?
A: Sadly, the answer to that is a blunt "Ignore it." That information is years out of date. There should be NO mention of Black Flame in the public history.
Yes. BF abhores the light of public scrutiny - period.
Q: What about Dakkru and her war on Black Flame followers?
A: Dakkru is new on the scene, so people will not be sure what to make of what she says. Her followers will believe Black Flame is real, and something to hunt and kill. The rest of the people will likely think it is a scare tactic to gain control. Look up the Red Scare for an example. Most Dakkru followers will not mention Black Flame outside of the Death Realm or in view of non-believers. To them, it is a holy quest that is not for sharing with the unworthy. Sort of like a secret society.
Mostly agreed. Most chars are not likely to be privy to Dakkru's grand scheme any more than they are BF's. While Dakkru is a bit more "in your face" than BF is, she's not any more likely to enjoy blabbermouths than BF is.
IMPORTANT NOTE: True followers of Black Flame will NEVER let it be known that they are followers. Anyone who openly claims to be a follower is NOT, and is simply a fool being used by the true followers.
THIS. THIS. THIS. And also, THIS.
Another note - if the good RPers out there truly want BF to grow into something earthshaking for Yliakum, then I suggest you develop chars that a) know only fairytales or b) fight the good fight - QUIETLY or c) indoctrinate yourselves w/ BF's teachings in SILENCE. An IG spotlight on BF will ruin the intent and the chance for some really groovy RP.
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Oomi, thank you for the invaluable clarification.
I`d like to ask about one point...
Q: What about the history and all that talk about Kadiakos and the Black Flame?
A: Sadly, the answer to that is a blunt "Ignore it." That information is years out of date. There should be NO mention of Black Flame in the public history.
Yes. BF abhores the light of public scrutiny - period.
You answer that the BF doesn`t want their link to Kadaikos revealed. Quite understandable.
How about the existence of Kadaikos itself? It is mentioned in a couple of quests (in relation to the name of a place and some language from `ancient Kadaikos`), so I presume the general populace does know about it? As for Laanx`s abandonment of it, I`m guessing that`s muddier territory?
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So I am quite happy that I made my "victim" character not completely wrong. Mostly. My best decision seems to be that he did never know by himself who he is, why he went to Hydlaa, who he met there... only that is it important to be found by those he should meet, and that they would recognise him rather than he them.
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Finally I can start implementing the BF religion into one of my lesser known chars.
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Azaza isnt afraid to unleash the secret of the black flame, and that she is a neophyte herself. Azaza wants nothing more than to be a normal 6 year old child; evil as hell. Azaza is not afriad of the guards either, and if they wish to arrest her, then well....they get to deal with her themselves ;D
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Azaza isn't afraid to unleash the secret? In that case be prepared for the BF to silence her themselves, before the Octarchy arranges a close up visit to the crystal for her and no a 6 year old won't be able to godmod her way out of permadeath
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How about an undercover GM BF char roaming to guarantee for valid play here? :P
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How do you know there isn't already ;)
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You may roleplay a character who remains in delusion about their status in the black flame and pronounces it. However as oomi stated, the BF abhors public scrutiny and are very quiet. That character may find themselves facing other religious players, black flame followers, guards and the octarchy.
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Anyone openly playing a loud BF follower will be ended.
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Azaza was sent on a "Flying Petrosaur, into the great crystal." She still tries to haunt Yliakum, but is not powerful enough to emanate herself. Hmmm. too bad. I just feel bad for the Petrosaur.
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Azaza was sent on a "Flying Petrosaur, into the great crystal." She still tries to haunt Yliakum, but is not powerful enough to emanate herself. Hmmm. too bad. I just feel bad for the Petrosaur.
So that's how they get people to the crystal? ;D
Pretty expensive way to do so.
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A few (pounds of) trias is nothing to preventing unnecessary deaths.
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Petrosaurs are a more than flying bags of tria, although many might think of them that way. More trias can be minted, petrosaurs must be raised and trained, and they are in limited supply.
It would be awesome if you could paste the criminal with projectile runes and let him fly to the crystal himself.
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That would be cool, but if people had projectile runes, they wouldn't need any Megaras or Pterosaurs or even a Winch to get to the other levels in the first place.
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There are simpler ways of killing permanently. Ask the executioner about it. I believe the tale of the hypnotized flying animal is rather reserved to really important convicts like Octarchs.
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This would also server as an example for those who are considering such a way of life.
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That would be cool, but if people had projectile runes, they wouldn't need any Megaras or Pterosaurs or even a Winch to get to the other levels in the first place.
So the arrow glyph doesn't work as a general projectile glyph in the lore? How sad. I expected that since a single glyph could lift about 0.6kg and launch it, a whole bunch of them (and a skilled mage) could launch something larger.
I need to figure out which one the executioner is.
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It summons the arrows - I think the weaker spell summons wooden arrows (where from, now that I think of it?) and the more powerful one summons arrows of pure Crystal energy.
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:offtopic:
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These information are quite amazing and interesting, though it's quite confusing for me. I mean all I basically get from that is that BF is concidered a myth so it's not really instructive for me. Is there a way to put the BF rules of conducts and stuff like that? in the case someone wanted to rp one (kindda like me) otherwise it'd be guess work and might go out of character.
Also as for where the arrows come from, if my memory servs me right (which it might not, they are old ones) Talad created the glyphs, if I'm right he also created the world, or something around the lines of that, it wouldn't be surprising if he could give the power to a glyph to simply create something, though this seems like a more advance spell than just throwing energy, I mean making matter's way harder!
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I mean all I basically get from that is that BF is concidered a myth so it's not really instructive for me.
Black Flame is at most a myth - but in general unknown - to most of the "normal" people living in Yliakum.
Except for the Black Flame followers. They are an own (hidden) society among each other.
(http://www.ligh.de/PlaneShift/blackglassbead_icon.png)
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Perhaps this will help.
There are (or were) lots of players who claimed to be bad asses, and members of bad ass guilds with spooky names. They never did anything "bad" in game... Just trained.. "Yar, were tough guys ... and we'll take over Yliakum or something.."
Avoid this at all costs. Focus on doing what bad guys do, and do your best to make others think you are good. Once its discovered that you're a baddie, you really lose the ability to play the wolf in sheep's clothing.
Do the quests that lead to temple access, and pay close attention to how those npcs operate, who they work with, who they know or vice versa etc.. Do they go around screaming that they are cultists?
No, with one exception, they do the opposite. They enlist others (like yourself) to do their dirty work for them.
Try to get some other players to join also. You really need to have a group of black flamers unless you like playing by yourself.
Keep all bf stuff between yourselves, and wreak havok as covertly as possible.
Be prepared to toss your character if you are discovered and reported to the authorities. Its just part of the territory.
Have a front of some sort. Be someone in society. Be a baker and get a job at the Stonehead, or be the town Xiosia worshiper who hands out flowers and smiles at everyone.
In hindsight, its probably better for players to be unaware that you are a bf member. That's right, don't even let them know oocly. People will subconsciously treat you differently - unintentionally of course. Likewise, not letting anyone know about it oocly may make it that much more mysterious.
That's my two cents at least...
If you want some examples, look at the ingame roleplaying events section and check out the following threads:
Auctioning Victims
The Guilt of Jacula ( and sequels )
Nightmare Dust ( think that's what it was called )
There was another by Tadano Hitoshi.. I forgot the name of it.. It overlapped with "Poor Sick Dwarf" and some other events at the time.
At the time, we trusted the RP community enough to post the logs to these roleplays. Most of the players involved did the right think and isolated this ooc info from their characters. We had a blast doing this and wanted to be able to share it with everyone else.
Good luck, and whisper bless ;)
Oh PS, there used to be more BF activity than what you see posted in the in-game rp events section.
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Jacula has a guild? ^ ^ I MUST JOIN.
Guys, don't just publicly talk about the Black Flame. I think it's ok to put it in your description, but for RP purposes, saying "Where be the next Black Flame meeting be held?" is like saying "Where are we having the next KKK meet?" in RL. It's stupid to think you're cool if your character brags about the Black Flame all the time. Believe me, I've seen plenty of new players who hear about the Black Flame and next thing you know, they're parading around Yliakum saying "The Black Flame gonna be uprizin!"
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Guilt <> Guild.
And Jacula already died, I believe.
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Hi, new player here.
I started playing about a month ago. When I created my character the blackflame religion seemed very interesting to role-play. But I must say I'm a bit disapointed so far. The quests were nice. But once you get to the temple that's the end of the adventure?
In my opinion keeping a secret is not roleplaying, it's just plain keeping a secret while coincedently role-playing...
If players don't even hint to their blackflame affiliation OOC, then how can you ever meet other eager little clackers in-game? Is there a blackflame guild? Why not leave a secondary character in the temple 24/7 and put a book next to him with instructions how to join the guild (whisper to the temple guard and wait for a response...). Or maybe you can organize 'shifts' between members.
I dunno, it just seems like a waste to have this aspect of the game not included in role-play.
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This is challenging both from an in character and out of character perspective. From an in character perspective, this is a secret that your character must guard with their life. Those characters who you do let know about it would be characters who your character trusts or who can be "dealt with" if they become problematic as the punishment for being a member is permanent death.
From an OOC perspective, not all players are very good with keeping ooc and ic separate. For that reason, people are not always open about this - which sucks. If you play with good players who know what they are doing, then they are not going to breach ic/ooc separation and they will understand this thoroughly. Likewise, you need to be able to deal with players who do not know these rules in a polite, ooc fashion. This takes some practice.
Black Flame characters have secrets. They arrange for things to happen behind the scenes, they infiltrate, influence and gather intelligence, all for the eventual destruction of mankind. You do not need to let other characters know about your affiliation to do this ICly. As for how to do this, Relliom is the best example. He gives you quests and uses you as a *proxy*.
I agree with you though, in a story, the villian needs to be seen. In reality, the perfect crime is not seen or known of, but in stories, that does not show well. In stories and in role playing, we need to see the things that the villian does otherwise, he or she might as well not exist.
My solution to this thus far has been to play openly. I write about the things my character does, I'm open OOCly about him being a Black Flame member, but ICly I don't let anyone know except for possibly a pocket of similarly minded characters. I try to create the impression that he's evil, but that's about it. Some folks like to play their bad guys in a more covert fashion. For me, I prefer to play a more sloppy, in your face sort of character.
Good Luck and Whisper bless!
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sorry for double post, I don't see a delete button either?
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Hi Rigwyn, thanks for the advice. While I get the gist of what you're saying in theory, I think practice proves more difficult. Even with proxys there's not much you can do in terms of destabalizing society. You can't murder or steal and so on, since the game mechanics don't allow it. There's no big waves you can send, only small ripples. So you'd have to coordinate with other members one way or the other, I think.
Also, I'm wondering now that you said you can't confide people because the punishment is permadeath. Let's say you did confide in someone, and this person 'outs' you as Blackflame, isn't that your word against theirs? They have no proof of the matter IC. Only posibility of proof are chatlogs, but even if the topic in the logs is IC, the existance of logs themselves would still be considered OCC, right?
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You can kill and steal ICly, by PMing the victim and playing the scene with it.
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Hi Rigwyn, thanks for the advice. While I get the gist of what you're saying in theory, I think practice proves more difficult. Even with proxys there's not much you can do in terms of destabalizing society. You can't murder or steal and so on, since the game mechanics don't allow it. There's no big waves you can send, only small ripples. So you'd have to coordinate with other members one way or the other, I think.
There's a huge difference between role playing and gaming. You can't tip the world on it's side unless other players go along with it. This cooperative requirement produces balance - which is good. As for how do pull of villainous feats, that's all done via role play. You can't rely on the mechanics for that. Forget about mechanics. Good role players can show you how to pull off feats like this in a very IC way.
Also, I'm wondering now that you said you can't confide people because the punishment is permadeath. Let's say you did confide in someone, and this person 'outs' you as Blackflame, isn't that your word against theirs? They have no proof of the matter IC. Only posibility of proof are chatlogs, but even if the topic in the logs is IC, the existance of logs themselves would still be considered OCC, right?
Yes, it's your character's word against theirs and chat logs are ooc. For this reason, ic rumors can be quite nasty. The tongue can in some cases, cause more damage than steel. This is where it begins to become more of a mind game. ^_^ It forces you to look at the game in a whole new way. As for punishment, that would be enforced by characters, and your character always has the ability to try to talk their way out of such situations.
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Oh,..
It never even occurred to me to do it strictly RP. But now that I do consider it, won't most people be unwilling to participate either way? Hmmm, perhaps if.... Oh and then I could... Yes yes...
Thanks again Rigwyn
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It sounds like it's making more sense as you chew on it. There is where "competitive play" becomes an issue when role playing. You can't force anything on anyone else in role play, and when you try to, people end up resorting to silly measures in order to "not lose" like metagaming or godmodding.
For those of us who role play, we enjoy the story - good and bad and we understand that unless you want a flat, uneventful story where nothing happens, you have let others succeed sometimes. Bad guys needs to let the good guys have their moments of victory, good guys needs to allow the bad guys to cause trouble and harm. When people get all attached to their characters and decide to be invincible or all powerful, you end up with these boring games where nobody wants to do anything for fear of looking bad. In this context, the player/character separation rule makes a lot of sense.
We have had many long running BF story lines that were possible only because of this sort of mutual cooperation. Generally, when you give someone a little space, they end up giving you a little space in return at some point. ( at least, they should ) It's a sort of unwritten rule or courtesy that good players will typically honor.