Author Topic: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro  (Read 1449 times)

Can-ned Food

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Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
« on: July 09, 2015, 04:14:53 pm »
This can be gathered from various books and dialogue with NPCs, but it should be common knowledge to most Kran.  As such, it needs to be proffered to new players in the Race Description page — which should itself be mirroring an introduction given when making a new kran character.
On that note, what's with the tiny little box of text when starting a character in the client?  Sure, some other MMOGs have little boxes like that, but because often not much is put there and most players don't need or want to read it anyway (maybe they researched online or from a friend).

Also, what books do concern descriptions of kran only provide some pronoun cases.  What about the others?

Please post here what you PlaneShifties have decided or learned or whatever.

Here are the pronoun forms which I've seen and those which I've invented (to fill gaps in my knowledge), for third-person & singular use, and with guidant parallels in modern english (only, sorry).
subjective -objective (directly or indirectly)
personalkra, she, he -kraĂ° (kradt), her, him
possessive, genitivekras, her, his -(same)
possessive, determinerkrans, hers, his
reflexive, singularkraself, herself, himself
reflexive, pluralkranselves, themselves
(Please pardon any syntactical errors in the array there.)

Gemma
  • a kran who has given birth to a child kran, thus a title for elders;
    also improperly used as a blanket courtesy title, much like ‘Sir’ or ‘Madam’
gemling
  • a young kran, especially the newly birthed (similar to ‘newling’);
    child — familiar or affectionate form
gemmor
  • parent — familiar form
Kran
  • may be used as a courtesy title generic to any kran
  • The kran know the difference between a species and a people, but kran do not distinguish for kranselves.  Other races will occasionally use the uppercase letters to capitalize ‘Kran’ when making the distinction, but this is foreign to the kran; articular syntax will suffice.
Their noun does not have any numerative cases:  one kran, two kran.

If someone would just give me an editor account for the wiki, I could include all this myself.
Any kran at least would've experienced these — unless they were orphaned and raised by parents who knew only the bare minimum about kranic necessities of survival.
Even then, as Kran-Lemur is the common vernacular of Yliakum (Ă  la Westron), any native speaker probably knows these pronouns.
Same thing for the title ‘Gemma’, probably, because it is used commonly also and especially in Hydlaa.  As for ‘gemling’:  if it was featured in a nursery tale then it probably is something kran (at least) would learn while growing.

Why do I think all this is important?  I once had Demagul ask me for a courtesy title.  I was new, just completed tutorial, and had rushed over to Jayose's.  I knew that ‘gemma’ was used for elder kran, but didn't know any other, so I let Demagul call me “kra” — which was stupid, I now know.
Gedundk Kokro, kran
Ailela Belair, nolthrir
Hwokmar Cmar, ynnwn

Demagul Riwe

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Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 10:32:49 am »
Oh wow I'm surprised you remember that short RP (I still feel so bad about having to leave early  :-[ )

Great job on this guide! I've always been hesitant to start a Kran character because I was afraid of messing up on pronouns, and I'm sure other players have had the same fears. Would it be possible to put this information on the wiki, or a place even more accessible for new players (settings info, perhaps?). Or of course, it would make a nice pinned thread for easy access. This must have taken forever to make, Can-ned Food! I'm really impressed!  :flowers:

Can-ned Food

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Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2015, 01:20:57 pm »
Some changes I've made.

subjective objective (directly or indirectly)
nominativekra (she, he)  kraĂ° (her, him)
possessive, determinerkras (her, his)  (same)
possessive, genitivekraj (hers, his)
reflexive, singularkraself (herself, himself)
reflexive, pluralkranselves (themselves)
    gemmite
    • an unborn kran fetus
    vitalith
    • analogous to flesh

    Regarding the Kran-Lemur language:
    It would seem that the phonetic capabilities of kran would not differ much from those of lemurs, if they have the same language.  There might be slight differences to accent, but nothing that would cause lingual drift.
    However, there is a possibility that Talad had difficulties forming the first kran (see to book:“Kran History And Origin”).  Do kran have a speech impediment?  This was conjectured in older posts on these boards, e.g. here.
    One method to confer speech impediments in written word is to vary spelling.  When an alien language is being represented, this brings certain added dilemmas for the writer:
    • the words being written are not the words being spoken, so the characters are actually hearing the same changes to pronunciation but on different words; thus, they cannot reference speech as written, and any references that they do make must be explained — and require provision for the words that they are fictionally using.
    • the words of the reader's language may not adequately represent the phonetics of the fictional language, and as such may misrepresent the speech which that world's characters are hearing.
    Keep in mind that consistent and prolific differences in forms of speech do result in lingual drift over time:  Viz., some Romance languages exhibit consistent differences from their parent root, although the effects of localized variations from familiarity with native languages must also be considered.
    « Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 05:54:19 pm by Can-ned Food »
    Gedundk Kokro, kran
    Ailela Belair, nolthrir
    Hwokmar Cmar, ynnwn

    Can-ned Food

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    a ‘gemma’ is a kran child
    « Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 12:52:28 am »
    I recently — i.e. never bothered until now — learned this:

    gem-ma   n       A leaf bud; bud-like body that breaks away from the mother plant to form a new growth.
            -mae    n   plural
            -mate   adj
            -mation n
            -miparous       adj     Forming or formed by buds.

    Was this known?  Does this change how the word Gemma is used in PlaneShift?  (Remember that nobody in Yliakum is actually using the word “Gemma”, but rather that we are translating their word to a latin equivalent.)
    When you use the honorific for a kran, what are you describing?
    Is it proper to use it for an elder, then?

    Or, is the word Gemma being constructed with no bearing on the older word above?  Vis Ă  vis the word ‘gem’ with a suffix that bears some resemblance to the kran-lemur word.

    EDIT:  the word is latin, not english; also s/elder/an\ elder/
    « Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 08:01:15 pm by Can-ned Food »
    Gedundk Kokro, kran
    Ailela Belair, nolthrir
    Hwokmar Cmar, ynnwn

    BoevenF

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 07:45:05 am »
    If I remember correctly kra multiply by gemmation.
    I think some players could have been aware of the meaning in our world. In italian the term has an identical meaning, among others. It also means "gem" and it happens to be a nice female name as well.
    This doesn't change the meaning for Kras.
    In this particular case I don't think the term must be seen as a translation, but as an original kra word, with the meaning you posted in the opening message.

    I suspect the original player which used the term first was aware of that meaning, but now it's a term that's living on its own.  :)
    « Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 03:48:39 am by BoevenF »

    Jessamine

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 06:11:55 pm »
    This is quite helpful. Thanks!

    MishkaL1138

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #6 on: August 30, 2016, 06:51:12 am »
    Gemmate, gemling: tiny ol' lil' Kran

    Gemma: big ol' Kran

    Just like pupper is a small lil' doggo, and a doggo is a big ol' pupper.

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    Eleirit Kcelmien

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 08:39:18 pm »
    .
    « Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 01:17:25 am by Eleirit Kcelmien »

    LigH

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 01:24:56 am »
    Because citizen of Yliakum respect the unique habits of different species and cultures; and an asexual species is indeed rather unique from the point of most other species with two genders. Life has been made miraculously manifold by VodĂșl and his descendant deities.

    Your character might not care much, though, if you want to play him ignorant. But in this case, he may not fit well in the society of Yliakum... Yet it should all be a roleplay.
    « Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 01:27:27 am by LigH »

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    Eleirit Kcelmien

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 08:36:16 pm »
    .
    « Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 01:17:47 am by Eleirit Kcelmien »

    Rigwyn

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 06:12:34 am »
    I like it, but I'm not sure about kraj  and krao ... meh...
    That's funny o in krao might be a little tricky for some time type.


    I personally like the idea of having constructed languages for each race ( ie. Na'vi, Dothraki ) but in practice, the learning curve is kind of steep.

    Can-ned Food

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #11 on: February 19, 2017, 07:57:31 am »
    That Ă° was a lowercase eĂ° (eth).  Yeah, the more I think of it, it would be better to have a more phonetically conclusive word there.  Maybe:  krad.
    Only a great fool would slur that with ‘crud’. :whistling:

    As for the ‘kraj’, i was thinking of the français J e.g. ‘Jacques’.  A.k.a. the voiced palato-aveolar fricative.  Despite the fact that it has never been recognized as a krannic sound, it seems rather like a stony sound to me.

    Remember that i invented these only because nobody else had ever, to my knowledge, diversified the kran pronouns.  There are a few places in the stories where “kra” and “kras” were used to fulfill all the necessary pronoun syntax.  I'm not trying to establish my proposals as the only viable choices.
    « Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 11:37:48 pm by Can-ned Food »
    Gedundk Kokro, kran
    Ailela Belair, nolthrir
    Hwokmar Cmar, ynnwn

    Dilihin

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #12 on: February 19, 2017, 01:00:55 pm »
    I dont think Krad sounds good either... I think you should try to avoid adding extra letters to "kra" like Ă° or j, it just sounds weird. Also i think "Kranselves" sounds a bit worser than "kraselves".

    LigH

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 05:37:56 am »
    And "worser" is even worse ... ;)

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    Re: Kran nouns, both amateur and pro
    « Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 07:24:40 am »
    Indeed LigH... I think i should have said something like "sounds a bit better than..." rather than using negative words like worse :P