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General Discussion / Re: Linguists Wanted fot the PSWiki Language Projects
« on: August 02, 2020, 11:33:57 pm »The Xacha alphabet has been cast adrift, it seems, by the merger of Xacha and Lemur. Maybe someone from settings can weight in here, but do Lemurians and Kran both use the same written alphabet? Was that always true? I'm trying to think of a reasonable way to keep the Xacha alphabet associated with Lemurians, but maybe another race could use it if Lemurians can't.
I have a downloaded graphic of the Xacha alphabet. I'm pretty sure I got it from a link on the Lemur Language page of the PSWiki, which would be the part where it says "Here":
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Please note that Xacha and Lemur races have been merged into a single race in 2011. So we are going to use the former Xacha language for Lemurs.Source: http://planeshift.top-ix.org/pswiki/index.php/Lemur_Language
Here is the list of symbols for the Lemur written language.
From this, I gather that there was intent for the Xacha language (and, subsequently, alphabet), to be used for Lemur.
That, however, still doesn't explain if the Kran also used this language...
If we look at this segment, from the "Second Epoch: Division" section of the History page, it says the following:
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Though they were simpler in mind than the Lemurs, they were also given the same language skills and called themselves 'Kran'.Source: https://www.planeshift.it/History
From this, it would be perhaps too much of an assumption to say they were created with the same language (despite nothing clearly stating that they weren't) -- especially considering that all it says about the Lemur language (in the same Epoch), is the following:
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Having been given full self-awareness, intelligence, and understanding of language by Laanx, they called themselves 'Lemurs'.Source: https://www.planeshift.it/History
So I looked deeper, as you do, and I found the following under the events of 10 AY in the "Race History in Yliakum" segment of the Lemur race page:
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The Lemur, now mostly deaf, were still unsettled and confused by what had happened so they were suspicious of the Kran, and avoided them at first. A leader emerged from the group of Kran worked not only with the Kran, but with the Lemur, struggling to build a friendship between the very different races. The Kran, dealing with vibrations, had no problems learning to communicate the Lemurs.Source: https://www.planeshift.it/Lemur
Given the reference of the Kran having "no problems learning to communicate the Lemurs", it rather seems to imply that they weren't created with the same language, but rather both with the abilities to make languages of their own. All in all, everything I've been able to see -- from the above to a certain Kran from Jayose's Library mentioning in passing translating works written in the "old language" -- gives no clear-cut indication as to whether or not the Kran ever spoke a different language from the one the Lemur used. I rather question why I went to all this effort just to say that...
- Lemur and Kran of course speak the common language, and therefore do not require much in the way of a language project, though I must note the Lemur have inherited a set of symbols used to write their language from the Xacha, but no mention is made on whether Kran use the same symbols or not.
As for this, Migg, while you're certaainly not wrong by any means, you do seem to be neglecting (or at least not clearly stating), that all the races speak the common language. Behold, more lore! (this from the "Race History in Yliakum" segment of the Ylian race page):
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442 AY - Truvar created the "Edict of One Language" to spread a common language amongst the races. The adoption will take about 100 years.Source: https://www.planeshift.it/Ylians
In other words, it took around 100 cycles, but it's been quite a long time (given that I believe the current cycle is supposed to be 750 AY or such), since the One Language ("Common") was fully adopted. Further, if we look at the Klyros language project wiki, we find the following:
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All modern historians agree that like other languages, Old Klyran lost its positions after formation of the Octarchy and the degree of 451 AY. Since that time Common language was spreading rapidly and in just few decades made Klyran a dead language. The process is believed to have been completed in 530-540 AY. At least the last known book written in Klyran was written in 511 AY and a book that describes Klyros villages of 540s in first and second levels claims even elder Klyros didn't use Klyran.
This seems to state that with the adoption of the Edict of One Language leading to Common becoming essentially the only language in use, Klyran (along with other languages), became dead. Thus, the rekindling of racial languages can be assumed to be a very recent thing, as reinforced by these excerpts (from the same place as the one directly above):
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And the last, third layer of Klyran emerged only few decades ago when number of enthusiasts began their efforts in restoring the language. As there were no native speakers left to the moment, the last layer, Modern Klyran, is definitely the closest one to the Common, especially in terms of grammar.Source: http://planeshift.top-ix.org/pswiki/index.php/Klyros_Language#History
Number of factors enfueled the process of relearning the language by Klyros. Lack of farming lands for more and more growning population, rogue raids on roads resulting into problems with supply lines, natural disasters like the Ojavedan Plague - all these problems that the Octarchy failed to solve effectively. The Octarchy started to lose the trust and multicultural integration process not only stopped but even went in reverse direction. More and more people started looking answers for thier lives in ancient racial cultures including languages.
Of course, in grand PlaneShift tradition, the available lore seems to contradict itself: that is to say, despite indications of there being an "old language" of the Lemur and/or Kran, the General Language Notes on the PSWiki says this:
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Lemur/Kran is the Common tongue used in modern times, and as such, will not have its own language.Source: http://planeshift.top-ix.org/pswiki/index.php/General_Language_notes
Kran and Lemur languages are virtually identical. The reason for this is the nature of their creation by the Gods, and that they were only created 10 years apart. They then existed 300 years side by side, for the most part, negating the need for any deviation in speech. Some people say that this Lemur/Kran language is the Language of the Gods, and cite that as one of the main reasons it became the only language commonly used after the Temples were built.
All other languages fell into disuse after formation of the Octarchy and the decree of 451 AY. To the end of 5th century no racial languages were used except the Common.
However in last decades linguists and historians have made an attempt to resurrect the lost race languages. Their attempts were supported by number of racial groups within Ylaikum society, that desired to re-establish old racial cultures.
Also seemingly contradicting this, and in favor of there having been an "old" (or perhaps merely disused? magical?) language of the Lemur and/or Kran prior to the establishment of Common, is the following (which, bit of a Spoiler Alert I suppose, comes from one of the first of the Laanx religion quests available in-game):
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(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: It's surely some magical language.
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: I remember reading about a similar one in one of these books...
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: I will search for it.
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose moves into the library and starts searching the shelves. After a few minutes, he returns holding a book.
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: I've found it!
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: It's related to Laanx mythology.
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: This book says that the phrase 'Herta Feer Garad' was written on a few monuments in the legendary Kadaikos and means: 'light forms shadow'.
(21:35:44) [NPC] Jayose says: You can give those words to the person that asked for the translation.
Although, speaking of the Laanx religion, that brings me to this, which I've always felt deserves to be expanded upon more (source being "The Five Branches of Laanx", a book that can be found in Jayose's Library):
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Laanx followers are expected to know the complex number system and language by a very early age, and be well versed in the teachings of Laanx.
To me, this seems to imply that there's some separate language and number system in use by those in the Laanx religion, one which is separate from Common -- otherwise, why would it be specifically called out in an information text as something followers are expected to know, considering that Common is considered the default and obvious language? That, then, would seem to contradict the General Language Notes assertion that, I quote again, "Some people say that this Lemur/Kran language is the Language of the Gods, and cite that as one of the main reasons it became the only language commonly used after the Temples were built."
And it would seem that in my grand tradition, this post turned out long and rambling.
All that said, though, I'm very excited to see if these languages get expanded upon more!
A TL;DR because I got excited about lore-stuffs and rambled:
- It seems like the Lemur and Kran both had essentially the same language to start, and any gaps were bridged due to their time together
- While it's unclear whether or not this is truly the case, Common might actually be separate from the original/"old" Lemur/Kran language
(I feel like it makes more sense that it's separate, but I'm just a player, so...) - It seems the old racial languages (aside from that of the Lemur/Kran) were lost due to the adoption of the Edict of One Language, which led Common to become the standard/only used language
- A movement to reclaim the old racial languages seems to have started very recently (within approximately a few decades of current setting time)
- There is some sort of Laanx religion-specific language & number system, presumably separate from Common, that has very little information on it
- Tidebringer is definitely excited about the prospect of the language lore potentially being expanded upon