PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Tontow on December 02, 2007, 03:41:02 pm
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[Before you ask, yes I did search the wish list and the sub forum with the word ‘challenge’ and it came up with 9 pages that I don’t feel like looking through all that to see if this has been suggested before.]
Allow PvP and NPC combat without issuing a challenge.
- You would not be able to deliver the finishing blow unless you issued an accepted challenge first. [PvP only]
- You would be able to defeat NPCs. [IE: Beat William up for his purse or, for that matter, any NPC just because they don’t understand you.]
- There could possibly be an option that would toggle Non-challenged combat under options to keep PvP harassment down (Current system). [Default should be set to allow.]
- You would receive an ear or a note saying that you beat your opponent that would sell for one tria; also, you would be able to obtain proof that you defeated an NPC for quests or you could defeat an NPC to start a quest. [If you have ever played Diablo 2, you may remember getting a players ear after you kill them.]
- Would allow for more non-GM involved good verses evil RP.
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I don't see this working very well. Firstly the cities are supposed to be free of fighting. If this "free fight" idea was implemented could you imagine how many people would just randomly start attacking others just for the fun of draining their health and not even rping to have to run away from the guards? Free pvp in the cities would most likely lead to some bad rps. It could be used in good ways too but if its going to lead to less good than bad then whats the point?
If you only implemented free pvp outside the city it would make a little more sense in the case of one playing a rouge, bandit, or assassin. You'd have the ability to beat up on people without having to "challenge" them. However then people would complain about 2 things. First "why can't I make the final blow if its outside the city?" Afterwards you'll get everyone annoyed because they get continuly killed by people with no rp reason.
Free pvp, regardless of whether you can kill or not, could just lead to lots of bad rps. Now if there was some kind of guarding system or something in the city that actually had people punished for attacking randoms then I could more so see this working. Fighting in a place thats not outside the city or isn't like the arena is illegal regardless of why your doing it so the ability to fight anyone freely without a punishment system isn't something I'd want to see now :P
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I'd hate people slashing random folks all the time.
Also:
You would've known this has been suggested already if you had read your search. This proposal takes into account the new system where you have to verify you want to deal the finishing blow, but that's it really.
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Who would pay money for a silly little note?
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I've always believed games should be open pvp, its unrealistic to say you can't walk up to someone and attack them. However, there should be 'problems' from doing so, ie: guards and such. But that would require the guard system to be functional, first.
Though I do agree, having a non-existing force block people from turning their blades on each other is ooc... Heck, you shouldn't have to challenge to attack someone. But this has been brought up enough times that I don't really need to go into detail.
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Now why the heck would you want to kill random people? ::| Is killing poor mutated rats not good enough for you? Imagine if you were going about your business one day, picking apples to sell to hungry travellers, and suddenly a knight ran you through. Now that would suck, wouldn't it.
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Who would pay money for a silly little note?
Well....
Imagine if you were going about your business one day, picking apples to sell to hungry travellers, and suddenly a knight ran you through. Now that would suck, wouldn't it.
I would pay a bounty hunter for a note and a 30 second down time isn't that bad.
I've always believed games should be open pvp, its unrealistic to say you can't walk up to someone and attack them. However, there should be 'problems' from doing so, ie: guards and such. But that would require the guard system to be functional, first.
Though I do agree, having a non-existing force block people from turning their blades on each other is ooc... Heck, you shouldn't have to challenge to attack someone. But this has been brought up enough times that I don't really need to go into detail.
The guards don't inforce the law whatsoever. People walk by with there swords drawn, they just stand there when a monster wonders into town and right by them at that, they didnt even bother to close the gates during the last eclips.....
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The guards don't inforce the law whatsoever. People walk by with there swords drawn, they just stand there when a monster wonders into town and right by them at that, they didnt even bother to close the gates during the last eclips.....
:P Can't believe you went there.
The guards can't enforce the law because currently they are limited by game mechanics. The same as how we can't cook because its not implemented yet. Just because something isn't there yet though doesn't mean you shouldn't act like it isn't. Thats why I couldn't play this game with free pvp. There are too many people who are going to say "The guard doesn't do anything" and go about their day. In truth you can't just attack someone in front of a guard, they would arrest you.
People don't rp that the guards are there and act as if they won't notice you if you have your swords drawn, etc. Those who don't rp the guards being there and actually doing their job to protect the city aren't rping correctly. When there is a guarding system then go ahead, kill people randomly, walk with your swords unsheathed in the city, break the law. However with a real system I doubt you'll be saying "the guards don't inforce the law" once they are able to by game mechanics.
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You would be able to defeat NPCs. [IE: Beat William up for his purse or, for that matter, any NPC just because they don’t understand you.]
You'd never see Harnquist again if that happened.
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You would be able to defeat NPCs. [IE: Beat William up for his purse or, for that matter, any NPC just because they don’t understand you.]
You'd never see Harnquist again if that happened.
:devil: He seemed somewhat unrelyable during the last eclips and he sells junk anyway. I'd very much like to stuff the stuff he sells errrr somewhere. :whistling: :P
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You'll get your PvP and NPC attacking the day I get my prison that locks up those kinds of people for a few weeks, a system that bars them from walking into a city, and NPCs that will not train them, sell to them, or buy from them.
You know, how 'realistic' folks would deal with moron criminals who would do that kind of crap.
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Ok, so the main problem seems to be: ‘What is to keep people from going around and killing everyone?’
The same could be said of thieving: ‘What is to keep people from going around and stealing from everyone? Are you going to ask someone every time you want to steal from them?’
The answer is: If you do nothing but go around killing or stealing from people, then people will kill you on sight or find someone that can.
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I'm sorry, but the idea is kinda dumb. It would basically be a kill fest for those moron people who would just come on to get their fill of attacking people who have done nothing to deserve it, without warning. There are just some elements that are non-rp that need to stay in place, for sake of gameplay. You can "lock people up" and you can "find someone else to kill them for you" but it justs makes "Insane Criminalzor" characters so much more common, so much more annoying, and just a bug that we don't need to deal with.
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In general there is little to say against open PvP, but here I have to agree with the others. Open PvP just requires someone to protect the citizens IC and the players OOC. Since the guards can't do that right now, perhaps the players themselves could act as a guard, until the system itself is fully implemented.
/guard
>Your request to become a guard has been granted.
Now one could stop any trouble-makers by just fighting them down, without having to inflict a /challenge. In the wilderness it'd be open PvP anyways, so if one fears an ambush or just doesn't feel comfortable traveling between cities, he could just group up with a bunch of friends or hire some professional body guards. But well, if it would be that easy to implement, we'd probably have open PvP at least in the wilderness by now.
PS: The punishment for those who get caught fighting in town would need to be much higher than a DP of 30 minutes, in my opinion anyway. So yup, it might be best to let the whole idea sleep until a prison map is available.
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I like
In general there is little to say against open PvP, but here I have to agree with the others. Open PvP just requires someone to protect the citizens IC and the players OOC. Since the guards can't do that right now, perhaps the players themselves could act as a guard, until the system itself is fully implemented.
/guard
>Your request to become a guard has been granted.
Now one could stop any trouble-makers by just fighting them down, without having to inflict a /challenge. In the wilderness it'd be open PvP anyways, so if one fears an ambush or just doesn't feel comfortable traveling between cities, he could just group up with a bunch of friends or hire some professional body guards. But well, if it would be that easy to implement, we'd probably have open PvP at least in the wilderness by now.
PS: The punishment for those who get caught fighting in town would need to be much higher than a DP of 30 minutes, in my opinion anyway. So yup, it might be best to let the whole idea sleep until a prison map is available.
This /guard idea sounds really good. There would need to be someone that can choose who becomes a guard and for what reason, however, or else it becomes a kill fest. A respectable member might become a guard for 30 seconds to kill someone annoying...
It's a good idea, but it would be too hard to regulate
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In general there is little to say against open PvP, but here I have to agree with the others. Open PvP just requires someone to protect the citizens IC and the players OOC. Since the guards can't do that right now, perhaps the players themselves could act as a guard, until the system itself is fully implemented.
/guard
>Your request to become a guard has been granted.
Now one could stop any trouble-makers by just fighting them down, without having to inflict a /challenge. In the wilderness it'd be open PvP anyways, so if one fears an ambush or just doesn't feel comfortable traveling between cities, he could just group up with a bunch of friends or hire some professional body guards. But well, if it would be that easy to implement, we'd probably have open PvP at least in the wilderness by now.
PS: The punishment for those who get caught fighting in town would need to be much higher than a DP of 30 minutes, in my opinion anyway. So yup, it might be best to let the whole idea sleep until a prison map is available.
I like but then I kind of don't. The /guard command could just as easily be used as OOC means to attack people as could open pvp. Those who use the /guard command could also easily back up any killing they make by saying "Well I'm an official guard." The idea that anyone can just suddenly become a guard isn't one I like because they are supposed to be trained specialist in fighting, etc. I'm sure there are ways to make this better but a simple command like /me that anyone could use wouldn't work too well.
The answer is: If you do nothing but go around killing or stealing from people, then people will kill you on sight or find someone that can.
That however isn't the point. If I play a thief character and steal from randoms, maybe murder someone its not the job of the players to kill me back. That is ILLEGAL. it doesn't matter if someone was killing me because I commited murder or whatever. The fact is both the original killer and the "good killer" should be sent to jail. To be able to allow players to attack other players freely we need to have the guard actually active to police those players, its not supposed to be a game where there is "player rule." The goverment rules, the players can just effet the world.
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Oh, no I didn't mean someone who does /guard being able to attack whoever he wants. I meant player-guards being able to attack only those people who are fighting in that very moment. That would of course require the system to notice the difference between peaceful and fighting players. In other words, people who duel in a city would need to be flagged when fighting, and then free to be fought by the guards, not earlier.
As for players to become guards in the first place, I was thinking about people who have enough factions with Guards, as the real guards wouldn't let just anyone help doing their job.
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Let's just say the player-killing-without-challenging idea sucks and stop talking about something that will never be implemented.
Yliakum will become a land of turmoil if this were to happen. And it's already experiencing a lot of crimes and such, so we don't want to make it worse. 'Kay? Hippieness for the win.
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Now that was a good post. Keep 'em coming. :)
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Let's just say the player-killing-without-challenging idea sucks and stop talking about something that will never be implemented.
I disagree :P It will be implemented, when this happens:
I get my prison that locks up those kinds of people for a few weeks, a system that bars them from walking into a city, and NPCs that will not train them, sell to them, or buy from them.
A prison would stop people from actually daring to kill, fearful of being stuck in prison for forever. Plus I think murder is punishable by true death so getting caught would definately get you in trouble :P
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I think murder is punishable by true death
Not necessarily: Into the crystal with those who produce and distribute true death causing poisons, for murder its up to the octarch to determine the punishment.
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I don't see this working very well. Firstly the cities are supposed to be free of fighting. If this "free fight" idea was implemented could you imagine how many people would just randomly start attacking others just for the fun of draining their health and not even rping to have to run away from the guards? Free pvp in the cities would most likely lead to some bad rps. It could be used in good ways too but if its going to lead to less good than bad then whats the point?
If you only implemented free pvp outside the city it would make a little more sense in the case of one playing a rouge, bandit, or assassin. You'd have the ability to beat up on people without having to "challenge" them. However then people would complain about 2 things. First "why can't I make the final blow if its outside the city?" Afterwards you'll get everyone annoyed because they get continuly killed by people with no rp reason.
Free pvp, regardless of whether you can kill or not, could just lead to lots of bad rps. Now if there was some kind of guarding system or something in the city that actually had people punished for attacking randoms then I could more so see this working. Fighting in a place thats not outside the city or isn't like the arena is illegal regardless of why your doing it so the ability to fight anyone freely without a punishment system isn't something I'd want to see now :P
the thing is...realistilcally, there are people who enjoy that kind of thing. in our current society, they're just in hiding, at least from the common public. But they exist. And they run the risk of doing that naturally, because the people who hate them also have that power, and could hunt them down to have some peace.
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The answer is: If you do nothing but go around killing or stealing from people, then people will kill you on sight or find someone that can.
Death won't do, death isn't negative enough for us players. However I'm with Duraza and saying, don't just throw them in jail. Execute them! A multiple murderer won't spend a few weeks in jail. As soon as s/he is arrested by guards or defeated by players who then bring them to the guards, tie the criminal to a Megaras and off to the Azure Sun with em!
Promise True Death, the ending of their character and their precious skills, to whomever breaks the law too much, along with other very frigthening punishments and then I might be able to live with open PvP.
As for the player guard thingy, it's easily monitored. In fact we already have the monitoring system implemented, called: Factions. :D Any character with a chaos, thieves, .. or whatever other lawless faction will not be able to become a guard. Any normal character will not be able to become a guard. Only characters with a high law and guard faction will be able to become a guard.
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ok...so how would someone who breaks the law be caught?
The suggestion about sending someone into the azure sun, yes, it would be realistic, but in real life, the guards dont catch everyone. not to mention, this is a role-playing game, and that would seriously limit roleplaying of someone evil or chaotic, or a guild that is.
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A smart criminal will not get caught because they leave as little evidence behind as possible. However with the nature of Planeshift being a criminal will be very hard. Even if you kill your witnesses, you can't be certain that they won't show up again. :P
I'm not saying every crime will be punished but I do want every crime to have a substantial risk of being punished.
Getting away with crimes is a matter of a lot of luck or a lot of skill.
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so...you're saying, the guards are not in the system, but rather whether a "guard" sees them do it or not?
I'm a little confused...
who would be a guard? how would a crime be found? how would the criminal be apprehended?
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Lets leave that up to the Devs to determine ... hopefully they'll do it as realistic as possible, if they ever do it.
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My idea would be having NCP guards(this was mentioned before and I liked it). They would patrol the city like mobs would, only extremely powerful mobs. If a duel happens the system will send the mobs towards it and more mobs would spawn around the area. The person who started the fight would be "marked" and the mobs would hunt around the city looking for that person, giving up after a certain amount of time. The mark itself will stay with your character forever, and be different depending on the crime you committed. Each time you commit an additional crime you get another mark of an equal level. The more those build up the more complicated it will be for you to get past guards period and more mobs will spawn around you once the guard is "alerted/suspicious" or you commit another crime. You can fight the guard mobs but once they start coming in larger numbers running is your only real option. If you ever get caught then depending on the number of marks and the severity of your crimes your punishment will be decided (make some kind of number system to correspond to each crime). A smart criminal who gets too many marks will simply stay out of the city and have others do his/her dirty work. Thats how organized crime starts :P
Not sure how that would work when actually being applied to the game but it sounds like it would be extremely fun. Can't remember who's idea this originally was but it was a great idea, whoever you are ;)
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My idea would be having NCP guards(this was mentioned before and I liked it). They would patrol the city like mobs would, only extremely powerful mobs. If a duel happens the system will send the mobs towards it and more mobs would spawn around the area. The person who started the fight would be "marked" and the mobs would hunt around the city looking for that person, giving up after a certain amount of time. The mark itself will stay with your character forever, and be different depending on the crime you committed. Each time you commit an additional crime you get another mark of an equal level. The more those build up the more complicated it will be for you to get past guards period and more mobs will spawn around you once the guard is "alerted/suspicious" or you commit another crime. You can fight the guard mobs but once they start coming in larger numbers running is your only real option. If you ever get caught then depending on the number of marks and the severity of your crimes your punishment will be decided (make some kind of number system to correspond to each crime). A smart criminal who gets too many marks will simply stay out of the city and have others do his/her dirty work. Thats how organized crime starts :P
Not sure how that would work when actually being applied to the game but it sounds like it would be extremely fun. Can't remember who's idea this originally was but it was a great idea, whoever you are ;)
Reminds me of Grand Theft Auto’s system.
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Ooo, Duraza, that is a good idea (kudos to smart fart who made it). But guards should only follow a player if the guards are called (such as /shout Guards!) or if the duel is in the general vicinity/eyesight of them.
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while that would defintely become annoying for me, its definitely realistic. nice idea!
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How about this, Guards have a range with they can deteat crime as well as npc's, who start runing around shouting GUARDS!!. When someone is caught attacking, killing, robbing, etc. they are punished by fines. Lets face it no-one is going to care that much if they die because they can just come back. They will care if they lose all their gold and even their items to pay a hevey fine (and then killed). If they can't pay the fine they are killed and a bounty is place on their head. The bounty is equal to what they failed to pay. If a guard spots you, makes you pay your bounty. If you can't the guard kills you and it starts all over again. That will make people think twice before random killing players.
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While this is a good idea we should try to strive to put combat-able guards in Hydlaa first. Maybe they could even be coded to all attack at once if another is attacked. Once that is done further implementation can occur. I have to wonder though, what about the training guards? If someone kills them off then to we all have to wait until he stops killing them to train? Surely they cannot just let a crime go on before them, perhaps they could signal guards instead?