Allow PvP and NPC combat without Challenge

[Duraza]

In general there is little to say against open PvP, but here I have to agree with the others. Open PvP just requires someone to protect the citizens IC and the players OOC. Since the guards can't do that right now, perhaps the players themselves could act as a guard, until the system itself is fully implemented.

/guard

>Your request to become a guard has been granted.

Now one could stop any trouble-makers by just fighting them down, without having to inflict a /challenge. In the wilderness it'd be open PvP anyways, so if one fears an ambush or just doesn't feel comfortable traveling between cities, he could just group up with a bunch of friends or hire some professional body guards. But well, if it would be that easy to implement, we'd probably have open PvP at least in the wilderness by now.

PS: The punishment for those who get caught fighting in town would need to be much higher than a DP of 30 minutes, in my opinion anyway. So yup, it might be best to let the whole idea sleep until a prison map is available.

I like but then I kind of don't. The /guard command could just as easily be used as OOC means to attack people as could open pvp. Those who use the /guard command could also easily back up any killing they make by saying "Well I'm an official guard." The idea that anyone can just suddenly become a guard isn't one I like because they are supposed to be trained specialist in fighting, etc. I'm sure there are ways to make this better but a simple command like /me that anyone could use wouldn't work too well.

The answer is: If you do nothing but go around killing or stealing from people, then people will kill you on sight or find someone that can.

That however isn't the point. If I play a thief character and steal from randoms, maybe murder someone its not the job of the players to kill me back. That is ILLEGAL. it doesn't matter if someone was killing me because I commited murder or whatever. The fact is both the original killer and the "good killer" should be sent to jail. To be able to allow players to attack other players freely we need to have the guard actually active to police those players, its not supposed to be a game where there is "player rule." The goverment rules, the players can just effet the world.

[Rongar Elani]

Oh, no I didn't mean someone who does /guard being able to attack whoever he wants. I meant player-guards being able to attack only those people who are fighting in that very moment. That would of course require the system to notice the difference between peaceful and fighting players. In other words, people who duel in a city would need to be flagged when fighting, and then free to be fought by the guards, not earlier.

As for players to become guards in the first place, I was thinking about people who have enough factions with Guards, as the real guards wouldn't let just anyone help doing their job.

[Raa]

Let's just say the player-killing-without-challenging idea sucks and stop talking about something that will never be implemented.

Yliakum will become a land of turmoil if this were to happen. And it's already experiencing a lot of crimes and such, so we don't want to make it worse. 'Kay? Hippieness for the win.

[Rongar Elani]

Now that was a good post. Keep 'em coming.

[Duraza]

Let's just say the player-killing-without-challenging idea sucks and stop talking about something that will never be implemented.

I disagree   It will be implemented, when this happens:

I get my prison that locks up those kinds of people for a few weeks, a system that bars them from walking into a city, and NPCs that will not train them, sell to them, or buy from them.

A prison would stop people from actually daring to kill, fearful of being stuck in prison for forever. Plus I think murder is punishable by true death so getting caught would definately get you in trouble  

[Velh Krome]

I think murder is punishable by true death

Not necessarily: Into the crystal with those who produce and distribute true death causing poisons, for murder its up to the octarch to determine the punishment.

[theirah]

I don't see this working very well. Firstly the cities are supposed to be free of fighting. If this "free fight" idea was implemented could you imagine how many people would just randomly start attacking others just for the fun of draining their health and not even rping to have to run away from the guards? Free pvp in the cities would most likely lead to some bad rps. It could be used in good ways too but if its going to lead to less good than bad then whats the point?

If you only implemented free pvp outside the city it would make a little more sense in the case of one playing a rouge, bandit, or assassin. You'd have the ability to beat up on people without having to "challenge" them. However then people would complain about 2 things. First "why can't I make the final blow if its outside the city?" Afterwards you'll get everyone annoyed because they get continuly killed by people with no rp reason.

Free pvp, regardless of whether you can kill or not, could just lead to lots of bad rps. Now if there was some kind of guarding system or something in the city that actually had people punished for attacking randoms then I could more so see this working. Fighting in a place thats not outside the city or isn't like the arena is illegal regardless of why your doing it so the ability to fight anyone freely without a punishment system isn't something I'd want to see now 

the thing is...realistilcally, there are people who enjoy that kind of thing. in our current society, they're just in hiding, at least from the common public. But they exist. And they run the risk of doing that naturally, because the people who hate them also have that power, and could hunt them down to have some peace.

[Zan]

The answer is: If you do nothing but go around killing or stealing from people, then people will kill you on sight or find someone that can.

Death won't do, death isn't negative enough for us players. However I'm with Duraza and saying, don't just throw them in jail. Execute them! A multiple murderer won't spend a few weeks in jail. As soon as s/he is arrested by guards or defeated by players who then bring them to the guards, tie the criminal to a Megaras and off to the Azure Sun with em!

Promise True Death, the ending of their character and their precious skills, to whomever breaks the law too much, along with other very frigthening punishments and then I might be able to live with open PvP.

As for the player guard thingy, it's easily monitored. In fact we already have the monitoring system implemented, called: Factions. Any character with a chaos, thieves, .. or whatever other lawless faction will not be able to become a guard. Any normal character will not be able to become a guard. Only characters with a high law and guard faction will be able to become a guard.

[theirah]

ok...so how would someone who breaks the law be caught?

The suggestion about sending someone into the azure sun, yes, it would be realistic, but in real life, the guards dont catch everyone. not to mention, this is a role-playing game, and that would seriously limit roleplaying of someone evil or chaotic, or a guild that is.

[Zan]

A smart criminal will not get caught because they leave as little evidence behind as possible. However with the nature of Planeshift being a criminal will be very hard. Even if you kill your witnesses, you can't be certain that they won't show up again.

I'm not saying every crime will be punished but I do want every crime to have a substantial risk of being punished.

Getting away with crimes is a matter of a lot of luck or a lot of skill.

[theirah]

so...you're saying, the guards are not in the system, but rather whether a "guard" sees them do it or not?

I'm a little confused...

who would be a guard? how would a crime be found? how would the criminal be apprehended?

[Zan]

Lets leave that up to the Devs to determine ... hopefully they'll do it as realistic as possible, if they ever do it.

[Duraza]

My idea would be having NCP guards(this was mentioned before and I liked it). They would patrol the city like mobs would, only extremely powerful mobs. If a duel happens the system will send the mobs towards it and more mobs would spawn around the area. The person who started the fight would be "marked" and the mobs would hunt around the city looking for that person, giving up after a certain amount of time. The mark itself will stay with your character forever, and be different depending on the crime you committed. Each time you commit an additional crime you get another mark of an equal level. The more those build up the more complicated it will be for you to get past guards period and more mobs will spawn around you once the guard is "alerted/suspicious" or you commit another crime. You can fight the guard mobs but once they start coming in larger numbers running is your only real option. If you ever get caught then depending on the number of marks and the severity of your crimes your punishment will be decided (make some kind of number system to correspond to each crime). A smart criminal who gets too many marks will simply stay out of the city and have others do his/her dirty work. Thats how organized crime starts 

Not sure how that would work when actually being applied to the game but it sounds like it would be extremely fun. Can't remember who's idea this originally was but it was a great idea, whoever you are 

[Tontow]

My idea would be having NCP guards(this was mentioned before and I liked it). They would patrol the city like mobs would, only extremely powerful mobs. If a duel happens the system will send the mobs towards it and more mobs would spawn around the area. The person who started the fight would be "marked" and the mobs would hunt around the city looking for that person, giving up after a certain amount of time. The mark itself will stay with your character forever, and be different depending on the crime you committed. Each time you commit an additional crime you get another mark of an equal level. The more those build up the more complicated it will be for you to get past guards period and more mobs will spawn around you once the guard is "alerted/suspicious" or you commit another crime. You can fight the guard mobs but once they start coming in larger numbers running is your only real option. If you ever get caught then depending on the number of marks and the severity of your crimes your punishment will be decided (make some kind of number system to correspond to each crime). A smart criminal who gets too many marks will simply stay out of the city and have others do his/her dirty work. Thats how organized crime starts 

Not sure how that would work when actually being applied to the game but it sounds like it would be extremely fun. Can't remember who's idea this originally was but it was a great idea, whoever you are 

Reminds me of Grand Theft Auto’s system.

[Raa]

Ooo, Duraza, that is a good idea (kudos to smart fart who made it). But guards should only follow a player if the guards are called (such as /shout Guards!) or if the duel is in the general vicinity/eyesight of them.