New players and Role Play

[Leama]

We had a very interesting conversation today on IRC. It was about role play. Being that many people seem to like the role play aspect of the game so much it leads to another topic. How can a new player learn to role play? How does the description of a character fit into their role play? How does a character develop? How do other players help in this creation process? It would be great you hear your stories of how the established role players got their start and evolved. Please add anything else you wish to this role play thread, but stay on topic.

[SerqFeht]

Do you like starting new posts on controversial things?

If they are really new, then you won't be able to teach them it. The average newbie really doesn't want to be an rper at first. They want to be the best fighter/wizard ever.

Once they get the basics of the game, and how it works, start teaching them. Other people are the most important thing a potential rper can find. A few good rpers that explain the brackets and making a fleshed out character really do it better than anything else. A character generally develops from the experiences of the first few weeks playing, although many change their habits after time.

Although I'm not the best rper  I can tell you my beginnings. After all the basic newbie stuff, conversations and jokes between my guild established the basics of my character. There are minor changes, but experiences in rping with other people cemented it all.

[Duraza]

I'd have to agree. THe majority of new players won't come to the game immediately seeking rp. Instead most will start off trying to do quest, gain tria, get pp, and train. While you can teach a person rp while in these stages I think the easist time is when the person has the actual game system down. I think at that stage its a good time for a player to actually read through the settings. They get how the game mechanics work so they won't be confused when just playing so it would be time to allow them to understand how the settings work.

Once the player reads through the settings I think they are ready to rp. I'm not saying that you can't rp before reading the settings or anything like that. Basically I'm trying to say understand the game mechanics, understand the settings, and then your ready to rp.

As for me I started off as a leveler. However leveling quickly got boring to me  Eventually I wandered into rping and now I play mainly to rp. I used to do lots of quests too but I easily got annoyed with the NPC's and running 

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

I agree that most will play the game just to level to start with, just to see how the game works.. some actually like that sort of thing and will continue to do so... they generally don't bother the RP'ers [least I find they don't]. Some, however, and I hope more than less of them, see others playing characters... and like what they see and want to be part of it...

Here comes the crunch....

I feel that new players often don't know how to differenciate between In Character (IC) and Out Of Character (OOC) to start with. They often speak about things as a player or about Real Life (RL) things without real consideration about what their character would actually be doing or saying. 

They need to understand that to Role Play (RP) they have to seperate RL or OOC from IC and act the character they are playing, by taking on its persona.

Some of the pitfalls of failing to seperate this become apparent when playing a character with evil traits.  The player on the receiving end needs to know it is only an IC thing not a RL thing, also the same is to be said when playing romances, it must be made clear from the start that it is IC not RL.  This can be done with simple use of the /tell command and also the use of parenthesis [] around the OOC explanations

For example:
/tell Homix [my character is not a nice character, it is not personal to you as a player, please enjoy the game and allow your character to react as they would, but let us as players enjoy the game]
or
[I personally am happily in a real life relationship, so this incharacter one is only a game and not to be taken to heart, let us just enjoy the game]

I would also recommend that you do not go too far with expicit explanations where in character relashionships are concerned, there are two reasons for this, 1) you could be mistakedly marked as someone grooming a minor if the person you do it with is under 16. and 2) other users are likely to be as young as 10... as there is no way of knowing this you should alway err on restraint.

Oh and 3) not letting the other know what is OOC and what is IC can lead to misunderstandings and real issues to real people, not just the character... which are best avoided.

If you stick to these simple rules, one can start then to find your feet with actual RP.

With RP, you character needs to have some form of history, that should fit with the settings in which you play, in this instance it is PlaneShift [PS].  The best way to find out about the history and setting is to read about it here on the PS forum, or on the main PS site... there are books in the libraries In Game [IG] to help you on your way there.

Once you are happy about the history of your character, you then need to build your characters traits, mannerisms... looks... and reactions to situations, these will develope - well they should anyway, as your character interacts with other characters and copes with different situations (or doesn't cope, which ever you chose in your RP).

Then, as you play, you will meet others... see how they  play, learn to develop you semantics around your speach which in turn will enhance your RP.

Semantics or Emoticons are done by using the /me or /my command... for instance here is a simple greeting between Joxit and Homix [made up people sorry if it is a real nickname]

Joxit says: hello, who are you [using normal speach]
Homix says: Ur what did you say?
Homix scratches his neck and looks round, his eyes are red and water-laden, looks slightly drunk and his breath could strip the skin off a Tefsung. [using /me command]
Joxit's nose wrinkles up at the smell of alcohol off of Homix's breath [using the /my command]

so on and so forth.

Also a good thing to take into mind is when you write actions with your /me or /my commands - don't say what actually happens to the other, that could be mistaken as GODMODDING which everyone hates.  better to suggest what might happen to the other and let that player decide if they will go along with it, that way you will have great fun.. oh and remember - sometimes it is good to be a loser once in a while.   Failing to win is the beginning of winning the others hearts in RP.

Have a great time playing

There, there was my tuppence of input for you... I hope it was useful.

[isccrew25]

Personally I just think roleplay is fruity, weird, and akward. Frankly I can't see myself RPing anytime soon. I would rather learn about other players' actual real lives and personalities then their fantasy ones... While the RPing provides an interesting aspect to gameplay, when it's this strict, it really takes away from it. It's like playing a game with a bunch of NPCs rather than a bunch of real people. I mean, heck, it's supposed to be a MMORPG, but really just plays like an unfinished rpg...

Fact of the matter is, when you act like yourself you're typically going to come off as alot more interesting and convincing than if you try and impersonate somebody---offline and on. This whole RPing thing is probably going to doom Planeshift's chances of ever getting popular. People play MMORPG's to play with other people you know---generally real people.

[Liadan]

Personally I just think roleplay is fruity, weird, and akward. Frankly I can't see myself RPing anytime soon. I would rather learn about other players' actual real lives and personalities then their fantasy ones... While the RPing provides an interesting aspect to gameplay, when it's this strict, it really takes away from it. It's like playing a game with a bunch of NPCs rather than a bunch of real people. I mean, heck, it's supposed to be a MMORPG, but really just plays like an unfinished rpg...

Fact of the matter is, when you act like yourself you're typically going to come off as alot more interesting and convincing than if you try and impersonate somebody---offline and on. This whole RPing thing is probably going to doom Planeshift's chances of ever getting popular. People play MMORPG's to play with other people you know---generally real people.

* Liadan whistles

This one i can't ignore. Let's break it down, shall we?

"Personally I just think roleplay is fruity, weird, and akward. Frankly I can't see myself RPing anytime soon. I would rather learn about other players' actual real lives and personalities then their fantasy ones..."

First I'm going to make the assumption that you created the account on this forum, merely to reply to this thread. Secondly, that you are not inclined to be a creative writer in any way.  A good RP will draw on their life experiences to help create an RP, even if it is for their background story.  So, essentially, by participating in RP you ARE indirectly learning about the player behind.

"This whole RPing thing is probably going to doom Planeshift's chances of ever getting popular. People play MMORPG's to play with other people you know---generally real people."

And thirdly, I'm going to assume that you have never played Planeshift before.  There are a number of ways that you can get to know the players, but normally not until after you get to know the characters.  Back to assumption number 2, you are not a creative writer: characters do become 'real' after awhile.  They start to take on their own personality and quite frankly, that's why people keep coming back. For the community (read: real people).

It may be awkward for you to act as someone else...but that's probably because you're not even comfortable acting as yourself.  The players of PS? We have great self-esteem. If you can pretend to be someone else and have fun while doing it, you learn more about yourself too...and about how humans interact.

Give it try...you never know until you do!

[neko kyouran]

Personally I just think roleplay is fruity, weird, and akward. Frankly I can't see myself RPing anytime soon. I would rather learn about other players' actual real lives and personalities then their fantasy ones... While the RPing provides an interesting aspect to gameplay, when it's this strict, it really takes away from it. It's like playing a game with a bunch of NPCs rather than a bunch of real people. I mean, heck, it's supposed to be a MMORPG, but really just plays like an unfinished rpg...

Fact of the matter is, when you act like yourself you're typically going to come off as alot more interesting and convincing than if you try and impersonate somebody---offline and on. This whole RPing thing is probably going to doom Planeshift's chances of ever getting popular. People play MMORPG's to play with other people you know---generally real people.

Actually, people play Planeshift to RP in a medieval based fantasy world to escape being themselves.  It allows them to be something they are not.

If you play just to level, I guess that's fine, but as this game is made for people who RP, if you do interfere with that, you will be asked to leave. 

As for becoming popular,  I don't see any thing wrong with just having a small niche myself.

[isccrew25]

And thirdly, I'm going to assume that you have never played Planeshift before.  There are a number of ways that you can get to know the players, but normally not until after you get to know the characters.  Back to assumption number 2, you are not a creative writer: characters do become 'real' after awhile.  They start to take on their own personality and quite frankly, that's why people keep coming back. For the community (read: real people).

It may be awkward for you to act as someone else...but that's probably because you're not even comfortable acting as yourself.  The players of PS? We have great self-esteem. If you can pretend to be someone else and have fun while doing it, you learn more about yourself too...and about how humans interact.

Give it try...you never know until you do!

If your character is supposed to be shy, mean, and lazy when you yourself are really an outgoing, friendly, active person interacting with the real world, then I'd say it's pretty hard to make yourself known and seen through your character. While masking yourself seems to work here it also really screws things up; I'm not saying anything is really wrong with the community: they're certainly way better than in any other MMORPG I've played. But that's not really the point---if you aren't acting like yourself, then you aren't yourself. You're not real. I know it's fine with some people, but it really doesn't appeal to me---talking about in-game experiences are fun for awhile, but I really think its hard to truly bond with and make friends with someone without even mentioning your outgame experiences---which should be (i hope) the majority of your daily life.

I've played Planeshift plenty. I have gotten to know some people really well in the game---mainly the ones that actually share what happens outside of their PS life. I generally ignore most of the hardcore RPer's. I have nothing against them, but having a conversation with one is uncomfortable and akward...

Uncomfortable acting as myself? Ridiculous. I act like myself through the game at all times and thoroughly enjoy it. No matter what my character's personality, I try to be polite and helpful. And frankly, I think it works just fine.

[Dihenis]

please can we go back on topic and not discuss here whether people should act like themselves or not. Personally, Dihenis has almost developed his own personality that I have little control over. but this is roleplay and teaching others how to roleplay. Please make your own thread if you think people should act like themselves, unless the mods wouldn't like it.

[Duraza]

I actually think that was pretty on topic. We were discussing new players and roleplaying. Isccrew25, new or not, gave their view on roleplaying. While I disagree entirely there is a valid point brought up there.

When you think of most MMORPG's they don't include the RP component at all. Its completely ignored and players pretty much take the game as if it was a huge chat room in which you could run around, quest, kill monsters, and get stronger. A new player coming into planeshift would most likely have this idea, most likely never having experienced rp before.

I generally ignore most of the hardcore RPer's. I have nothing against them, but having a conversation with one is uncomfortable and akward...

While I'm not sure what your saying by that I'll just put in a point here. When it comes to new characters many of the RPers I know will try and get that new character rping by example. We will speak to them ICly and try to lead them into rp with hints in brackets. Question: If this new character probably doesn't have the slightest idea about role playing are we really helping them or making them think its "fruity, weird, and awkward?" Guiding someone OOCly sometimes works, sometimes fails. Guiding someone completely IC would just be asking for failure and that new characters avoidance of you. If new characters start avoiding rpers in the begining then how are they to ever learn rp?

So I'm ending this with another question. Are we really helping to encourage future rpers or are we pushing them away and if the latter than how can we fix that? Even if only a handful have the same opinions about rping it could be the same situations that are pushing them away instead of getting involved.

[Anumesa]

* Anumesa resists the impulse to argue

Responding to the last bit of Leama's initial post...when i first started Planeshift, i did NOT know how to Roleplay. I had read on the forums that it was expected of players, but i wasnt exactly sure what i was getting myself into. One of my first friends in the game did NOT like to roleplay, he would spout random ooc bits and insisted that he didnt need to use brackets. I kept mostly to myself and levelled a little bit, until i joined my first guild. By that point, i had watched some of the more experienced RPers and was dying to try it. Joining The Knights of Vengeance /Fallen Kingdom and getting into that first RP fight in Oja with Xeonart and Velh and Noriin was pretty much my big plunge into RP. Being in the guild, no matter how small, helped me learn more about the world i was in, and how to interact with it successfully.

This sort of goes back to the other thread on how to help newbies, but i do think that having a group of friends/guildies/whatever to help you out is a must. Planeshift is extraordinarily complicated, and quite intimidating to the new player. The use of descriptions and /tells would probably be explained a lot faster (whereas I figured out to change mine, eventually by reading everyone elses....hehehe took me awhile). They would have someone to ask about whether shouting your system specs at the plaza is ok  . I also believe that the more you associate with other people, the more your character develops and grows.


I apologize, i know this sounds like a random spurt of thoughts...but im tired 
I just hope that stayed on topic...  

[bilbous]

I think some people take it a bit too far. I doubt there are many experts here in middle English but there re some who like to pepper their speech with arcaicisms, if I may coin a term. We may not know what people spoke like in the medieval period and likely would have a hard time understanding it. I see no reason to throw in thees and thous for example. Certainly leet speak is not appropriate but lets keep common ordinary English. I mean why can't I pan my head to peruse the panoramic beauty of the countryside? Sure hit me if I want to mimeograph a book but some terms come into common usage far beyond their origin. If you call me Sir Kran are you telling me I am a male landowner of French origin (Sieur)? We may have heavy armor but I haven't seen any lances or horses, should I be able to have a squire? It is a very delicate balance to play in the settings without inadvertently stepping out. Can I talk about my car

car
    1301, "wheeled vehicle," from Norm.-Fr. carre, from L. carrum, carrus (pl. carra), orig. "two-wheeled Celtic war chariot," from Gaul.

Online Etymology Dictionary 1301 seems to be about the right period.

Ahhgh Am I going off topic ... point is relx and do not be too

hidebound
    1559, from hide (n.1) + past tense of bind. Original ref. is to emaciated cattle with skin sticking closely to backbones and ribs; metaphoric sense of "restricted by narrow attitudes" is first recorded 1603.

about what constitutes acceptable role play.

[Ravenguard]

Well bilbous, I think the term, 'in medieval times' doesn't mean our medieval times exactly.  I mean, as far as I know there are no French people in PS history, nor Gaul, nor any other past empire, people, country, etc.

I think it's more of an establishing of the technology we can assume from that time; we don't talk about internal combustion engines, or high powered rifles, we talk about beasts of burden pulling carts, and (eventually) bows and magic.  Also, there is the whole aspect of a class system, so possibly the mentions of 'Sir' are meant not to be "a male landowner of French origin,' but a carryover of our current use of Sir because referring to someone as a superior is easier with Sir (or people don't know others that are appropriate).

But keeping on topic with the asked question, I haven't really roleplayed before, but I had an idea for a character for a story, and decided to put that character to use in PS.  Now, no one has gotten to the point where my character turns out to be fundamentally different from the nice, helpful, generally cool dude stage, but that's in the future.  But I enjoy RPers because it runs the imagination; and that's fun.
As far as getting people used to RP, you don't shove it down their throats.  If you are a more experienced RPer and encounter someone who seems like they don't know much about it (but are willing to try it), try telling stories about yourself to encourage them.  The other day, I met a friend at his death respawn point to find him chatting with another who had apparently been through the DR (for the first time, first timers are generally new).  So, we encouraged storytelling while waiting for the curse to wear off, and we swapped experiences, interacted and all that.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Lol Bilbous I translated Chaucer's Wife of Bath's Tale in college.

Leama I was a veteran rper when I got here, I rped amnesia until I understood enough to make my doomed bid for the Octarchy.

iscrew25 if at first you have trouble with rping someone else make a character that is similar to your real life self and stick as close to the story line of planeshift, this is a good way to begin the path to rping well and enjoying it. By now I know very intimate details of the lives of dozens of players and have hosted at least three in my home. So the idea that rp is not a means to express who you truly are is untrue; think of roleplaying as a means to explore alternative aspects of yourself.

Now to answer the question at hand. Everyone is correct in asserting that most people do not care about rp at all. In fact, some people do not even know what the rp in mmorpg is, as is evidenced in the previous posts.

How do we improve rp? For one we have to cease believing that because people do not initially care about roleplaying that they cannot come to care about it. From the age of 15 I rped and by the time I was 23 I decided to quit rpgs  entirely so that I could learn how to "play" life, which i did to some positive effect (a story for another time).

In the fourth year of my education (actually my seventh again a story for another time) I had the very pleasant experience of dungeon mastering with 7 of my college friends. Four of whom had never played before. I knew them all well by then, and we had partied very hard together for years. At first it was a hard sell, but soon we began our game in my own world of "Olderanthus." The game was slow going at first but within a month everyone was in the swing of it. To my surprise we got to a point where they were contacting me during the week to make smaller rps to develop their characters further.

The reason I bring all of the above into the discussion is that many of them did as I advise the novice rper to do, they played as characters near to themselves. In time branching out becomes more possible.

My advice then is to be more patient with new player, teach them, take them into good guilds. It is possible that a person can be trained. The question is whether all people want that. Many players will be invested solely in upping their skills at first, this will inevitably bore them. Our job as rpers who can teach rping is to bear with them through this phase and not alienate them. We have certainly lost players to the leet rper attitude as surely as we have lost them to bugs or server instability. We should take every precaution to make sure we are not shutting down people who could, in time, become great roleplayers.

In my mind planeshift can only exist in a niche market which is RP specific(it is important that the reader understand this is my personal opinion not that of planeshift). Competing with pro games to create a generic pseudo rpg holds no interest for me. If people had trouble understanding my earlier admonition to find what I called the "right kind" of players remains accurate. I think we should at least in part seek out people who already have a roleplaying background and draw them into the game. This means going out of your room and finding the people on your campus or at your job who are rping and telling them there is a place for them to thrive.

I do not want to be exclusive, I want people to take very seriously my wish that they be more understanding about the motives of the random player who happens upon planeshift with no rp background. I want us to be inclusive and exhibit the patience and understanding that taught us all how to rp, and why it is a benefit to anyone to experiment with their definition of self within the safe confines of planeshift.

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

Personally I just think roleplay is fruity, weird, and akward. Frankly I can't see myself RPing anytime soon. I would rather learn about other players' actual real lives and personalities then their fantasy ones... While the RPing provides an interesting aspect to gameplay, when it's this strict, it really takes away from it. It's like playing a game with a bunch of NPCs rather than a bunch of real people. I mean, heck, it's supposed to be a MMORPG, but really just plays like an unfinished rpg...

Fact of the matter is, when you act like yourself you're typically going to come off as alot more interesting and convincing than if you try and impersonate somebody---offline and on. This whole RPing thing is probably going to doom Planeshift's chances of ever getting popular. People play MMORPG's to play with other people you know---generally real people.

I don't wholly disagree with this, however, this is a game which is being designed for Role Play, not a chat room, which is where most of the players in this game go to get to know each other outside their chosen characters... they use the forums, their guild ones, this one, and even chat engines like MSN or YAHOO, or SKYPE...

The problem with acting yourself in this game is when 'characters' begin to react to your behaviour, you will probably take it to heart more, and result in real resentment, rather than just a fun game.

For instance, If we all acted as ourselves... surely we would not have any theives or evil characters in game? [one would hope] which would make for a really boring game, really.  and if we all acted as ourselves, and someone was to actually be nasty, we would think that person was actually nasty in real life... which again would be unpleasant. 

In my experience, those who blurr the line of Real Life, and In Character, usually end up upsetting a lot of people... unecessarily.

The reason this game stands out from others which have far more finished polish to them with graphics etc, is that it relies on the player using their imagination...  not just mindlessly bashing beasts, one another, and following quests.