Guild Creation System

[Duraza]

I've no idea if this has been suggested before. If it has, forgive me for suggesting it again. It was just a short thought that occurred to me while posting elsewhere.

At the moment the guild creation system is pretty simple. You get the cash, find 4 more players willing to join up, you make the guild. The system works but I'm thinking it should be removed because of the amount of 'bad' guilds that are created. The ones that do nothing but encourage disruptions and such.

Now, at the current state of PS we've got two servers, one for roleplay and the other on which players can 'do as they please.' The RP server is the only one that concerns me. Guilds can be made however, for whatever, on the other server I'm sure. For the RP server though certain things just should not exist, certain guilds are only disruptive, and honestly certain players should have no right to be guild masters. Thats a responsibility, not a title that any player should randomly be able to obtain.

Increasing the amount of players you need or the amount it cost to make the guild will end up not doing much. I'm certain the players that worry me are capable of grinding any amount of cash. As for the player amount, I myself have many times created a guild, mainly from my own alts, just running multiple clients at a time. It won't pose a challenge.

Give the power to run a guild to specific members of the community you think can handle it. After all, guilds -are- a responsibility. You should only allow responsible members of the community to make them. You can still keep the 20000 tria requirement as well as the 5 members but also, make it so you need some kind of "GM charter" or something that GMs give to players approved to be Guild Masters when they go to make a guild. That stops any other player from making one.

I know, 'what happens to the guilds forum?' Keep it. Just because a player has the right to be a guild master, doesn't mean they can make anything they want. This way players can still advertise and get input on the guilds they create. Next, have players who can't create guilds make posts there as well. If one of the approved guild masters has interest in running your guild or making it a section in whatever organization they wish they can have your guild created. Of course, this guild master has the responsibility of making sure your guild does its job as well.

You can have as many approved player guild masters as you want, its good that they exist. When they don't have a guild at the moment, maybe they will see one a player has posted up, get interested in it and 'fund' its creation. As I mentioned before, being a guild master is a privilege, not a right. I think it is time PS started treating it that way.

[Uosdwis]

Am I right in thinking that your idea is aimed at reducing the amount (or power anyway) or "greifers" on the RP server?

There definitely seems to be a problem with OOC behavior, but I am not sure this would help reduce it much. It would certainly increase the workload for the GMs, or whoever would be responsible approving new guilds.  

Perhaps a way to reduce OOC harassment would be to have the PS website feature the Non-RP server more prominently. The link from Planeshift.it to register for an account leads only to the RP server. There is no mention of the Non-RP server anywhere that I can find. After downloading the client, you can see it is available, but there are no instructions on how to sign up for an account. (yeah, I know, the info is all here on the forum... but it is not obvious without a good amount of reading, not all players will put this much research in before beginning, though they should).
It seems to me that many people who want to play OOC would be happier on the Ezpcusa server but are often unaware of it's existence until they have spent considerable time developing their "character" on the RP server. Programming the client to also list the register link for ezpcusa may be difficult (not a programmer, so I don't know) but adding a link from the Planeshift.it site and modifying the "about" page to include descriptions of both servers and their differences should be very easy (changing a bit of text and adding a hyperlink is NOT hard.)

And, since no post is complete without an idea that would increase the workload for the GMs....
Perhaps we could have a trial for the few characters that have been annoying everyone (OOC Harassment) on purpose (come up with an RP reason, of course) and banish those found guilty (export their accounts to ezpcusa, let them keep all their stuff and levels so they don't feel too robbed). Again, I'm not a programmer, so if this is insanely difficult just say so and I'll shut up.  

[weltall]

i don't think it's a good idea to insult players. anyway porting characters is complex  as it's spread on various tables and there is the risk of conflict also there you would increase the workload of devs not of gm who can't do much. and only 2-3 people active can access laanx database directly.
the description in the client was already done in the next release, changing the site is also planned

[Prolix]

I think a better idea would be to limit the number of members a guild can have until it accomplishes certain server specific goals which would unlock increases capacities. Have the starting membership limit be 10, say, and then allow GMs to increase that by a set amount, say 5, for successful participation in events. I don't know maybe it couldn't work, but maybe assisting in OSP initiatives could count as well towards the participation requirement.

Of course there isn't much of a problem on ezpc as people mostly are not there but bug testing could be the test there....

[Gesel]

@Prolix-
I was wondering when I read this post about outcast guilds such as the Outlaws. Guilds such as these would never get more than the starting amount of members because if they showed up publicly at a GM or Roleplaying event, they would be barred from the event and thrown out.
A better alternative might be to have certain quests that only guildleaders can do that would increase the guild's member cap, and there would be a "guild faction" in the faction's menu in the skills & stats screen that would affect what quests the guildleader can do, for good or for evil, and these quests might give guilds certain special items or trophies for their guildhouse.

[Prolix]

I think that the GM team has a place for, shall we say, the ethically challenged in events. Just because a guild lives on the wrong side of the law is no reason for it to be left out. What would the goodie two-shoes do if they had no miscreants to make their life interesting. As a matter of fact I believe the Red Crystal Den is (unofficially) a creature of just such a guild. I could be mistaken though. All that really matters is that the settings are respected and no unwanted harassment occurs.

[Uosdwis]

..Just because a guild lives on the wrong side of the law is no reason for it to be left out. What would the goodie two-shoes do if they had no miscreants to make their life interesting... ...All that really matters is that the settings are respected and no unwanted harassment occurs.

It was only OOC harassment that I was talking about. I have no problem with "evil" guilds existing. Just the OOC behavior of a few.

...porting characters is complex  as it's spread on various tables and there is the risk of conflict also there you would increase the workload of devs not of gm who can't do much. and only 2-3 people active can access laanx database directly.
the description in the client was already done in the next release, changing the site is also planned

Glad to hear that the site and client are to be changed to include the non-rp server info. I think this will solve most of the problem in the long run.

...Again, I'm not a programmer, so if this is insanely difficult just say so and I'll shut up.  

Sorry, weltall.
Uosdiws shuts up.  

[Duraza]

I think a better idea would be to limit the number of members a guild can have until it accomplishes certain server specific goals which would unlock increases capacities. Have the starting membership limit be 10, say, and then allow GMs to increase that by a set amount, say 5, for successful participation in events. I don't know maybe it couldn't work, but maybe assisting in OSP initiatives could count as well towards the participation requirement.

Of course there isn't much of a problem on ezpc as people mostly are not there but bug testing could be the test there....

Limiting the number of members a guild has won't stop OOC guilds from existing. First, I'd like to make a point that a lot of the guilds that people do feel disrupt RP used to be RP guilds a long time ago. They worked their way up years ago. They just lost sight of things and ended up as they did. I can make a guild, work myself up to 20 players, then just lose interest. Suddenly there might be a new 19 disruptive players running around.

A better alternative might be to have certain quests that only guildleaders can do that would increase the guild's member cap, and there would be a "guild faction" in the faction's menu in the skills & stats screen that would affect what quests the guildleader can do, for good or for evil, and these quests might give guilds certain special items or trophies for their guildhouse.

Throwing a quest at every problem doesn't solve the problem. Guides to solve quests pop up quickly, for everyone. I've seen IC and guilds that I'd consider OOC have guides to quests. If I say 'do a quest to get 5 more members' how long do you think it will take before everyone does that quest as just another requirement to have a guild? Get the cash, get 5 members, do the quests to get the additional 5, etc. A quest will change little.

Am I right in thinking that your idea is aimed at reducing the amount (or power anyway) or "greifers" on the RP server?

There definitely seems to be a problem with OOC behavior, but I am not sure this would help reduce it much. It would certainly increase the workload for the GMs, or whoever would be responsible approving new guilds. 

You are right but it isn't increasing the workload by much because I didn't suggest that anyone approve new guilds. I suggested only certain players be given the right to run guilds, not every average joe off the street. I also suggested that if you are a player with a guild idea but not the permission to run a guild that you'd be able to post the idea on the Guilds Forum. If an approved guild master saw the guild and liked it they would act as guild master for your guild idea.

[Entevir]

I also suggested that if you are a player with a guild idea but not the permission to run a guild that you'd be able to post the idea on the Guilds Forum. If an approved guild master saw the guild and liked it they would act as guild master for your guild idea.

This is where out opinions differ. I think that if a player has a good idea and shows reasonably good etiquette and just all round "not-an-idiot-ness" they should be given the chance to run their guild themselves. Someone else's interpretation of their guild might be something completely different.

Also, what you suggest seems just too much work and too little payload. I would actually vote to scrap the whole idea. Not to be rude or anything but its pretty much useless. Humanity has only two infinite things, of one I'm not sure but the other is stupidity.

[Duraza]

This is where out opinions differ. I think that if a player has a good idea and shows reasonably good etiquette and just all round "not-an-idiot-ness" they should be given the chance to run their guild themselves. Someone else's interpretation of their guild might be something completely different.

I wasn't suggesting the poster not have any input in how the guild is run. It's still their idea, just someone there to supervise. Also, if someone has the good etiquette and all that I don't see why they couldn't gain permission to run a guild. I'm not asking for a game where a whole 10 guild masters is accepted for every 100 players. There can be 70 guild masters within 100 players if those 70 people have the ability and gained permission to run a guild. Not everyone wants to run a guild so you wouldn't have such a large percent. It would stop those who come in wanting to run a guild and not knowing what they are getting themselves into from doing so.

Also, what you suggest seems just too much work and too little payload. I would actually vote to scrap the whole idea. Not to be rude or anything but its pretty much useless. Humanity has only two infinite things, of one I'm not sure but the other is stupidity.

Once again, not that much work if you consider the fact you have no more guilds that claim to RP but are really just disruptive and sometimes rude players. Will you still have disruptive rude players? Yes, like you said, there is always stupidity. However, why give anyone the ability to tempt other players to act as foolishly?

Think of it from this perspective. Guilds get plenty of nice, interesting features to go along with the names. If the only guilds that get the features are RP strict guilds and I'm a disruptive player but still rather greedy and want use of such features I'll have two options. I either suck up my pride and at least stop being disruptive, find a way to join an RP guild, and play the part when necessary for the rewards or I move to a different server. I continue to see no downside.

Oh, and I think you are looking for 'only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity...' 

[Entevir]

Oh, and I think you are looking for 'only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity...' 

Nope. I use my own take on the old time classic.

Once again, not that much work if you consider the fact you have no more guilds that claim to RP but are really just disruptive and sometimes rude players. Will you still have disruptive rude players? Yes, like you said, there is always stupidity. However, why give anyone the ability to tempt other players to act as foolishly?

This does seem to catch weight with me. If there are less disruptions and need for GM's to act as GM's in-game then I suppose they could always look at the forum and snoop around casually a bit to see if the player is also a good guy in-game.
Still, you will understand my skepticism when it comes to loosing a chance to be allowed to create a guild that is actually my own personal harem. 

[Midnight Wolf]

I like your idea a lot. Maybe the person creating the guild needs to get at least 10 votes from people before they can make the guild. If more than half of those people who voted say it is a bad idea, the person creating the guild won't get to continue making the guild, neither will he/she get the chance to pay the 2,000 tria and create the guild.

[kiou]

10 votes from which people?
maybe the player submits an application to the octarchs for a serious guild label, permit, thing, and the baddies do the same for the anti octarchs...

then the octarchs decide, like an osp but less formal

and its 20,000 not 2,000