PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Frank on September 28, 2005, 02:20:39 pm
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I was just wanting to start a collect of what people think a good PVP system would be and post a link so i can read up on them. maybe we will be able to put some ideas togthers and come up with a more sutible system for the devs.
oh yeah and please just post the links so we can keep these posts short.
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A good pvp system :
- Persistant ??
- Allow mass pvp and optimised grp vs grp pvp
- Disable overpowered stuff, skill is more important.
- Quick ( don't be looking for a fight for 1 hour )
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I am pretty new to this game, so don't expect a good idea out of me, but anyway:
a separate PvP server? just like Fragnetics, with the same npcs, cities, roads, etc. The difference is that once you are outside of any city (where there is law inforcement), you can attack any player you want. The only problem with this idea is that really good players will terrorize the server, so maybe have different charecters on the PvP server, so if you die there, your characters are all well and good on Fragnetics. Something like that might work, but it needs another good restraint for really good players. Any ideas?
\\o// :beta: \\o//
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I am pretty new to this game, so don't expect a good idea out of me, but anyway:
a separate PvP server? just like Fragnetics, with the same npcs, cities, roads, etc. The difference is that once you are outside of any city (where there is law inforcement), you can attack any player you want. The only problem with this idea is that really good players will terrorize the server, so maybe have different charecters on the PvP server, so if you die there, your characters are all well and good on Fragnetics. Something like that might work, but it needs another good restraint for really good players. Any ideas?
\\o// :beta: \\o//
there wont be seperate servers for things, the plan is there will be more than one server to take the load, everyone will be in the same world.
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maybe there could be an option to become a pvp player for a little while. anyone in pvp mode could attack anyone else in pvp mode without confirmation. It could kind of be like guild wars, except you can turn it off whenever you want. Newbies don't get slaughtered, good players get their pvp pleasure.
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to be honest, i tink open pvp will destroy the RP ambient.
the best idea to combine both i can tink of would be the restriction of area for pvp like have several spaces to do diferent things, but at the same time give those spaces a "racing" feeling for the players, sort of a objective thing.
examples: arenas (for 1 on 1, group vs group) raid areas (region control, guild vs guild)
on a side note: should a fighting guild(or a non job specific guild) should be called a guild or a tribe or something else?
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I see PS is developing nicely ^^
anyway - - I just came from Lineage2, which is all about pvp,pk,siege etc, you level up and get better grades to kick
other players harder.
but that's what whole game l2 is about.
as for PS and its rpg feeling, implementing such system would be suicidal.
best idea is here: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24374.0
EvE really has it done well.
and PS is much like EvE, with its great advantage over L2 that you can have your own character build,
you can go and harvest precious resources instead of killing-that-stupid-mob-thousands-times.
It is possible to take EvE system directly into PS, making great cities and surrounding areas a hi-lvl security zones,
with countryside less secured and with some no-mans land. There can be patrols in low-sec areas that will hunt pk
Add to it some kind of greater conflic between good & evil, like some major religies, so the players could join
one side or the other (or stay neutral) and gain bonus(god's favor?) while killing members of opposite force (and penalty after killing their side)
If results of such conlict could have impact on the world (like city being overrun by evil after they besiedged it) this would give players something to - guild can then join forces to protect some valuable mine somewhere in the wasteland from common enemy, instead of fight each other.
uhm, i think that there is quite "natural" way of reducing PvP, that is, make players dependand on one another.
the more cooperation needed to acheive wanted goal, the less fight between bored pc.
see the EvE, where alone you will be noone, where you must work together with others or you will die.
there is very little pvp between low-lvl chars, as mentioned in link given above, but there are often raids and skirmishes between corporation operatives.
on the other hand you have Lineage2, where you can play from beginning to the very 78 lvl almost alone, clan not needed, friends not needed, only bots/dualbox etc. there you get killed just outside newbie towns.
Since PS has nice skills system that coul be developed further to allow truly support characters to arrive, no inteligent person would kill an alchemist who supplies entire city with potions, or enchanter who creates nice items, or a smith who crafts something needed, cause they can stop trading with that pk.
ok this post is getting already too long... one last word about dropping equipment. this can be solved with giving a "soulbound" properity to items, and at the same time setting some limit of how many "soulbound" items player can equip(this could be increased by some skill or what). these would stay with player after death, but all other items in inventory would have a certain % chance to be dropped.
Regards,
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good PVP system
No such thing.
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there is, but its still to be found, specially if its for a role play game the system can improve or destroy the RP factor depending if it adds or takes
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you can do something similar to Dark and Light. Open pvp outside the towns, however if an experienced player attacks a young inexperienced player then the gods come into play to help protect the new player or give him a boost.
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personally i have always liked the runescape pvp options, but i am trying to get away from runescape so........ they could make a town specific to pvp..... anyway im still in the dl process for this game and its taking forever >:(
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My proposal would be completely and totally open PvP. I got to thinking, perhaps one of the best systems isn't from an MMORPG but from the Hitman series. After that I started mixing a few of my own ideas in and I think it's possible to have open PvP so long as it's more trouble than it's worth.
To me the current system really destroys a lot of RP opportunities, hard to be an assassin when you have to ask permission to kill someone. It also really takes away the fun of RPing an evil character.
1) NPC's can act as witnesses, when an NPC sees you kill someone, they run off and grab a guard who brings a group of guards who will hunt you down. They react similarly to bodies, but the guards simply go around looking for anyone who looks suspicious (see #2)
2) You can't kill someone with a blade and not expect blood, when your clothes are bloody an NPC seeing you is the same as if they saw you actually kill someone. It would also add a blood layer to the character's clothes so they don't just have to deal with guards, but also with other players. This is reset either when you die, or you find a source of water to wash your clothes in.
3) As far as looting characters go,you drop everything but what you have equiped, and whatever's in your first so many slots. However, if you PK someone you drop everything for a certain amount of time.
4) A noteriety level would be nice as well, the higher your noteriety level the more likely a guard is to recognize you and attack.
This way it will be very hard to kill someone, so it's really not worth going out and killing the first newbie you see. It would, however, allow for skilled assassans and such to kill people and make an escape. It would also allow for people to fight in areas off marked roads and such. You could also leave the duel system in place so that people could fight without being attacked by guards, and allow for tournaments and other such things.
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1. gee wow thats the first time ever that idea was posted. nobody thought of that before. and certainly no one said anything about whether that would potentially have a place in far off future...
2. this game is all ages. blood won't happen, far as i've read...
3. While more realistic i doubt anyone would go for that until housing type storage were implemented.
4. see #1...
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never said they were original ideas, was just hoping to combine them in a way that would work. Actually almost all these ideas are taken from somewhere else.
2) It could be an option for the textures then, anybody with it off would see a symbol or something.
3) It's not as if people haven't figured out ways to store things in game. Besides, how many items do you have that you actually use regularly that you don't usually have equiped?
Another thing that would be nice is a newspaper of some kind which could list people with very high noteriety levels among other things.
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Maybe it's just me but RP should reflect real life. If someone came up to you in the street and attacked you, you would fight him, if you were weaker you'd lose. that's life. and it isn't as if our characters story ends at death. I think everyone is too concerned about being killed by other players and having their things stolen by other players, if these things dont become allowed then there would be no point in anybody creating an evil character, and then we'd end up with the lamest rpg ever full of prissy little characters who bow and scrape for each other all the time. just my opinion.
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What are really the issues here?
Since there is no perma-death what is so bad about open PvP? You die, you go to death realm and your back. There is no loss execpt for a few minutes of making your way out. How can you cry about open pvp?
Ok role playing is the goal for PS. Well how come open PvP can't be apart of such a role playing experience? Doesn't the opposite make even less sense in such a world? Some guy is role playing an a$$h0le and gets killed for it. You think it is really roleplaying to have to request such an attack first?
Ususally the ONLY reason players cry about PvP in the first place, is because games are TOO unbalanced when it comes to character level or strength. The degree of a noob vs. a veteran player is just too much. It would be better to bring these seperations much closer together, giving even the noob the chance to kill a veteran player. Will a system like this ever come about, probably not because of poor design for character stat builds.
IMO
It is stupid to cry about being killed when you lose absolutely NOTHING from dying.
What is the difference between a monster killing you or a player? The monster kills you, you accept it, but if it is a player then that is somehow wrong??
If you want GOOD pvp, then you need to have a system that is generally fair for everyone. Allow even the newest character to have a chance against the oldest character. But most veteran players will cry about this since they dont like the idea of being killed by a noob. But if you bring these two closer together then you will not get a veteran player griefing noobs either.
All other systems will be horribly broken or make no sense in the context of the world or for an open roleplaying experience...
~Lyc
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Player A and B are married, they are having a romantic meal at Hydlaa tavern (if its possible with all the drunks ;)).
L33t Haxxor (planeshifts newest member) runs up behind player B and stabs her in the back.
This has no repercussions other than the fact that they have managed to ruin a perfectly quiet , private RP just because they are proving their L33tness.
This is really what I would think would happen, Ive seen far too many annoying newbies who think thats what the game is like. If it was like this I doubt it would be an improvement otherwise we would all be playing various other MMOs.
[EDIT]
I also must point out that open PVP is available for us all. We all have the option to auto-accept all duel requests. The fact that hardly anyone uses the option means that the community as a whole does not like the idea of open PvP.
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I dont think that is so much the point as that all that happens when someone challenges you and your on auto accept is the system tab starts flashing. If there was some nice big red letters on the screen i think that would improve the amount of people using it... i know i would.
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Open PVP (sort of)
in cities when you try to attak someone you just dont because you know it is a stupid idea when your outside the cities you can risk it but there could be heaps of guards near cities then regular patrols. when you target a player it should tell you without goin to description how hard they will be to kill and if they are too easy there is no point in killing them. if you kill someone that is worth killing you should get some reward of sorts.
when someone dies there corpse is there for about 5 mins and if some guards see it they will be alert for you and will attack you at sight. something like runescapes skull symbol could be used when u attack someone but not as lame.
thats the best i could come up with hope u like it lol
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As Narure pointed out, I too would use auto-accept PVP if you could:
a) Be warned of it.
but also...
b) Be given a countdown of 10 seconds before the duel starts.
I've added B because someone could just walk up to you, challenge and hit attack straight away.. and by the time you knew you'd been challenged they'd already be taking swipes at you.
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to be honest, i tink open pvp will destroy the RP ambient.
the best idea to combine both i can tink of would be the restriction of area for pvp like have several spaces to do diferent things, but at the same time give those spaces a "racing" feeling for the players, sort of a objective thing.
examples: arenas (for 1 on 1, group vs group) raid areas (region control, guild vs guild)
on a side note: should a fighting guild(or a non job specific guild) should be called a guild or a tribe or something else?
In Asheron's Call apparently OpenPVP FFA no rules servers had elite leaders who became monarchs. the towns were relatively safe, and people organized/policed themselves. Sounds like RP to me.
*edit*
As Narure pointed out, I too would use auto-accept PVP if you could:
a) Be warned of it.
b) Be given a countdown of 10 seconds before the duel starts.
I've added B because someone could just walk up to you, challenge and hit attack straight away.. and by the time you knew you'd been challenged they'd already be taking swipes at you.
So what? i've been on full loot OpenPvP servers and you get killed before you even knew someone was near. Grab an alternate set of gear and maybe a friend, hunt them down. If you are in a good guild, you won't get attacked - definitely increasing the social aspects.
If the notoriety system wasn't borked in UO, that would have been the best PvP. I'm looking forward to vanguard full loot openpvp (i want destroyable towns too), Age of Conan and Darkfall most of all. Warhammer Online could be cool but it looks like WoW of PvP.
*edit*
I should point out that I want PvP to have a point, a purpose other than getting HK for crappy blue gear *cough*. If you don't want full loot, make it a percentage of cash on hand, with a little from the bank too. I want sieges and castles, territory and trade routes. I want my gameplay to affect the world. Ideally, if I save the princess, I want her to be saved!! (Chronicles of Spellborn is doing this and instancing old boss fights through an oracle's memories)
[ Please avoid making one post right after the other in the same thread. Just "Modify" your first post to add more information. --Karyuu ]
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Before playing PS I was playing Dark Age of Camelot, which in my opinion has the best PvP system between all the mmorpgs I have tested so far. And they are quiet a few.
1. They have 3 realms and the players from the different realms cannot communicate with each other.
2. There are 6 relics. If a realm posesses a relic it gives a Bonus to everybody in that realm.
3. There are PvP exclusive zones at the gate to the realm. ( the wild ;D ) and the entrances to the realms are guarded and fortified.
4. It is possible to lay siege, capture and occupy keeps in the ennemy realm. The realm which occupies the most keeps gets access to an exclusive zone with unique loots, etc...
Allright, in the case of DAOC the whole setting of the mmorpg is based on the PvPing side of the game. Besides, whenever a player kills an ennemy in PvP he gets Realm Points which allow him/her to access special skills.
So the PvP system has it's own rewards. I think that in order to get a good PvPing system one has to respect the following guidelines:
- It has to have a greater purpouse then just killing other players (relics, keeps, etc...)
- It has to be rewarding for the player without damaging the other players (realm points)
- It has to be absolutely limited to PvP specific areas (the wild, no man's land, etc.....)
The PvP system in DAOC was a total bliss, it gave huge adrenaline rushes, especially during sieges and kept the game interesting.
But off course these are just my 2 cents.