PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on April 27, 2006, 07:36:01 pm
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In real life, some guy can rob a store, run away, shoot at a few cops, get killed or injured himself, and thrown in jail. In Yliakum, you can walk around, click the attack button, read the words that say "This person is invulnerable to attack" and walk away.
How unrealistic is that? I don't care how many troubles it would cause, if I wanna swing my sword at someone, I should be able to. No flashy red words at the top of a window my character IC wouldn't be able to see can't keep me from doing it. The person has to give an RP reason for doing so, though. Maybe he just wants what the person has? Maybe he has a duty to fulfill? Maybe he wants to practice his skills? Whatever the situation, if you wanna attack a guy you don't like, you should be allowed to. Dueling isn't the same, because if they decline your challenge, you can't slash at them and kill them, you just stand there calling them a coward or something. What's the point of having a good and evil, if the evil can't do anything to cause chaos, and the good can't do anything to stop chaos? Maybe I don't like Harnquist's prices? *slash, steal, run* simple.
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Not quite so simple. What you are suggesting is open PKing, and something the dev team is against quite a bit because preventing griefers will be complicated. Unless you have some neat suggestions about it?
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The NPCs aren't really invulnerable. Your conscience just stops you each time.
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Not to be promoting other games. But DarkFall is set to come out shortly after E3, that'll probably more to your liking.
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if the game idea were of beeing attacking like a mad berserker (just to make my point clear, mad berserker) then we should name it the bloody arena or something like that...
i actually play with the pvp off i dont want to fight other players, i am playing for the sake of interacting, talking, competing, whatever, if i want hack and slash i can go and play... whatever...
but not PS please.
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if the game idea were of beeing attacking like a mad berserker (just to make my point clear, mad berserker) then we should name it the bloody arena or something like that...
i actually play with the pvp off i dont want to fight other players, i am playing for the sake of interacting, talking, competing, whatever, if i want hack and slash i can go and play... whatever...
but not PS please.
I think PVP has its place.
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So you say Yliakum is a world without crime, curruption, evil, thieves, and wrong-doers? How wrong you are. People any time they want, as long as they have skills with a dagger, lockpicking, looting, whatever, can just come up and steal a few trias out of wherever you have them kept. Now, that character's defensive skills come in handy, maybe skilled in melee or sword, which would stop them from getting close. This person would have then have attempted thievery, and thus they can kill or be killed by any player. PvP and thieving play hand in hand from what I'm suggesting. People may see someone being robbed, and try to beat down the thief and return what belonged to the person. Or even kill them and steal the things for themselves, it depends on how desperate and strong the person is.
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Open PvP is not possible, can you imagine?
* newbie walks his first stroll through Hydlaa, watching the trees, the people, the city. He sees a man named Harnquist who cheerfully waves at him. He walks to Harnquist to ask him... CHOP!!! AAAH!! MY ARM!!! What the HELL are you DOING! *gimme your stuffs" I AM NEW! * oh, then..." SLASH!!
That would be the average life of someone new to the game.
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Well open PvP would surely not be possible everywhere, but I guess there could be some entire cities where it would be allowed, or there could be some areas of a town, of a forest ect.. where PvP would be allowed.
Let me explain my thought. If only some full cities had PvP enabled, it could easily not be among the ones players are starting in. A good explanation would be that there are and have always been some towns were there is only the rule of might. Put it together and you have your city with open PvP and some kind of organised crime. It could be chaotic from time to time, but the need to have one's back being looked after will get players to group in guilds or organisations and this will eventualy lead to some players made rules proper to each city with open PvP.
However, while this could be an option, I do believe it's still not verry realistic to limit open PvP areas to full cities only. In my opinion, it would be better to have some open PvP areas scattered a bit everywhere. Every towns usualy have their shady streets and places people don't usualy go unless they have business to do. It's the same with forests and other 'wild' areas. Of course full cities or places with open PvP could still be possible.
Now to avoid new players to get in such places in their starting towns.. I guess having walls around open PvP areas with guards at the openings to warn and prevent new players to get inside would be a solution. It would impossible for the new player to get through until he says the guard that he is getting there on his own will and knowing what's waiting for him ahead. This would happen the first times a new player tries to get in or be triggered during his first hours of play. Guards would give their warnings to anyone no matter what. The game guide could also give more in depth explanations the first time a player get near such a place. To also prevent them from being attacked as soon as they get in the said area, there could be a timer to prrotect them from open PvP (unless by 'challenge' way) or/and guards at the other side that would defend the player. The look of the open PvP areas would also be different from the usual city streets, to make it clear that they are dangerous places.
Outside of cities (or any other inhabitated place for that matter) the open PvP areas would still have a self explaining look about them, but nothing would prevent anyone to get in there. There could still be a timer preventing open PvP a server message stating that the area allows open PvP, but nothing more. After all, it will be the players faults if they leave a main road for exploration and such, and bandit raids are a part of exploration risks as much as ending face to face with an Ulbernaut.
Logging or loading maps in such areas would also enable a timer preventing the player to be attacked until it's sure he has finished loading and is fully aware of his surroundings.
Now this only considers open PvP, but to have the perfect settings, open passive NPC versus Player should also be defined. My opinion on the matter is clear. I think players should be able to attack any NPC anytime anywhere. Every now and then, people will bring the fact that if this ever happens some important NPCs could easily be killed over and over, which would disrupt any business players can have with them. What I would have toanswer is that NPCs don't necessarily have to be defenceless. There would be city guards ect.. I don't think Harnquist would mind smashing the head of someone bugging him with his hammer... Besides NPCs wouldn't be killed but only knocked out, and players can always heal them and help them. The best thing would be to have people attacking NPCs being flagged so that any player can attack them freely. This would be only fair.
There would be much less or even no guards in the open PvP areas (would also depend if the guards mentioned are normal city guards or just guards of a local faction of course), and there would be bandits and such. The NPCs there could be more or less important and more or less protected by their own guards ect.. Players would understand soon enough if they are hurting their own business and will protect some NPCs themselves (or try to get profit out of it or whatever else they can think of). One could say some players would attack NPCs only to get their powerful weapons or equipment. Well I don't think a skilled guard needs to be wielding an 'Ultimate Fire Longsword of the End of Times+13' in order to kill or stop some random player foolish enough to attack him. It's eay to get some reasons that would prevent such cases, and it's more than possible to make it not worth trying at all.
I think this could also be easily extended to stealing and any other 'unpleasant' skills. Someone who is holding some precious items and goes in an open PvP area can only blame himself if he gets robbed or get killed, since there would be no way to get in such places without being warned.
As always, RP should be the master rule no matter where you are, so open PvP shouldn't be a reason for having OOC behaviors or anything of the sort.
Now there should also be some ways of catching players and bring them to some sort of justice with penalities waiting for the outlaws according to the crimes they did. Such a penality system should be extremly well balanced so that players will think twice before doing something and so that it won't spoil the fun of RPing a 'shady' character. Allowing open PvP and passive NPC versus player everywhere would only be possible if every rules are extremly well balanced, and to balance them there will always be the need to test things on given areas were PvP would be allowed.
I'm not saying this is the best idea around or that those have never been thought out before. I'm only trying to give my thoughts on the matter, hoping that in the best case, the devs could get some ideas if any of them ever read that.
PS: seems like the post was a bit longer than intended :sweatdrop:
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Way longer, I don't even wanna read it. XD
Anyone interested, read Rioth's post...I think it's good. =P
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There's no point in writing "Too long, didn't read it" and then leaving it at that :P It's spammy. Don't do it.
Rioth: I think that's an extremely good example of a well-thought out suggestion for a controversial issue, and I wouldn't mind having something like this in place :) It allows new players to get settled in and understand how the game works without being jumped onto, actually -creates- roleplay (for example weaker players would want to hire bodyguards or guides if they are traveling through the unsafe wilderness), and is realistic without creating immediate problems (that I can see). Good job!
It's but one opinion, but I really do like it.
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Well you're maybe the only person high up that reads this, Karyuu. Think you could nudge Talad? He could make it a future option or something. =P
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I'll try to nudge :} Can't promise anything this remotely complicated any time soon, however.
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I've noticed he'd really common around the time of new updates or small bug fixes. =P
Do you know when the next update is?
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I see him every day on IRC.
I think someone posted on the forums sometime that we'll be trying to have updates every two months or so.
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In some RPG games if you hit a good NPC then all of the other NPCs in your area turn violent against you.
I think this would be fun...
Have the whole town come after you if you kill someone your not supposed. to.. and then it only stops when you die.
Other players should get an experience bonus and a bounty for killing someone who does kill a good NPC..
That would balance things out quite nicely.
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In some RPG games if you hit a good NPC then all of the other NPCs in your area turn violent against you.
I think this would be fun...
Have the whole town come after you if you kill someone your not supposed. to.. and then it only stops when you die.
Other players should get an experience bonus and a bounty for killing someone who does kill a good NPC..
That would balance things out quite nicely.
I think with rats, clackers, thugs and rogues - yes. They should help eachother out... it's actually been suggested in the past. Gladiators, tefusang, and ulbernaughts though I think are more individualistic and won't help eachother out - especially gladiators, since they're there to fight one on one.
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Well, a thug helping a thug...I don't see it. I think they'd fight eachother because maybe it's their territory or something. =P
And a rogue helping a rat? In the sewers I saw a rogue kill a rat once. =P
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Well, a thug helping a thug...I don't see it. I think they'd fight eachother because maybe it's their territory or something. =P
And a rogue helping a rat? In the sewers I saw a rogue kill a rat once. =P
i want to see that to, however i agree, there is another thread i staretd in the wishlist not the childboard. (kill npc's)
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Well, a thug helping a thug...I don't see it. I think they'd fight eachother because maybe it's their territory or something. =P
It's called a gang.
And a rogue helping a rat? In the sewers I saw a rogue kill a rat once. =P
Rogues would help rogues. Rats would help rats.
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Well, a thug helping a thug...I don't see it. I think they'd fight eachother because maybe it's their territory or something. =P
And a rogue helping a rat? In the sewers I saw a rogue kill a rat once. =P
You're hitting on what's called a 'social' mob, which is different from an 'aggresive' mob, though the two are often combined. 'Social' is a MUDish term meaning that mobs that are attacked bring others along with them.
There are a lot of variations: only social mobs of the same type, only social mobs of different types, social all mobs, don't social mobs at all &ct.
Monster type mobs can be social for a variety of reasons: they're pack animals, they're intelligent and see a source of something they 'desire', they're peaceful until disturbed...
Humanoid type mobs can also be social for a variety of reasons: they're on the same 'side' (all rogues in a city are in the same 'guild'), they're opportunistic (that player just attacked a rat, if he dies, I can 'get his stuff', so I'll attack too), they're easily perturbed and ornery...
Social-ness is an attribute of a mob just like aggressiveness and part of learning the game is figuring out which mobs are going to try and bring 'friends' along when you attack them.
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I really like what Suno is suggesting, but there is one serious flaw. It makes the game shift far more towards training and strength, which is DEFINITLY not what people want. Pls, something common enough in this game, could become even more rampant, taking away from any fun just regular rpers would have. You would either need to donate hours and hours of your time to become a PL for safety, or just be in fear. Its a flawed system.
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Open PvP. Clever and effective police force which uses magic effectively but within reason for some places including the noobs' home cities. You get caught by the police, it's BAD. Character unplayable for a real life day, week or month as he rots in prison or something for murder. It's possible to get away with if you have a good build and plan, but not worth it for random griefing of noobs.
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I thonk Rioth's idea was very appealing. It appeals both to character advancement and Role playing. It also builds community development, seeing as most of us depend soley on ourselves it would be nice to have to decide weather to journey alone or make a wiser choice in a pack, because of the known rogue Enkidukia "insert players name here" who haunts he Oja road attacking innocent travellers.
Also you also have several guilds who seem to be set up to protect the innocents of Yliakum. they could protect the young travelers and the NPC's from harm. This idea gives them a whole new angle to their cause. It makes them valid instead of just another guild. In the same way the Dark guilds of Yliakum who seek to stir up chaos, would battle these protective gulds as they stand in the way of the aims of the Black Flame, or general havoc or whatever "evil" they serve. So in another way this system that Rioth has suggested builds the community, general atmosphere of the world and interactivity.
Also with the social Mobs, i think would be a great asset to community development, it would be nice to adventure into the sewers attack what you think is a lone rogue until the two others across the water and down the tunnel come running to the aid of their gang member forcing you to consider your moves before you make them.
A little tactical thinking could be inspire by all of this aswell, you would have to consider how to go about dealing with this new threat, it may not be as simple as charge in and hack and slash. Maybe you'd have to draw them off individually, out of the range of their social mobs. If PVP and social mobs are done right I think it would make a large difference tothe gameplay as far as the payers are concerned.
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One suggestion:
I think it's rather strange to have guards and walls around shady areas of towns.
I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
For the newcomers you could combine it with a message popping up the first time you try to enter a dangerous area, explaining the "danger"-display (for those who didn't read the guide).
After that it would be one's personal decision whether to go to areas where one doesn't feel safe.
As an additional idea, the timid ones could have an option that shows some sort of warning when they leave secure areas. But that's only some additional idea.
Using this approach, dangerous areas could even change from time to time, e.g. grow, shrink, move, vanish, ...
P.S.:
Maybe the ability to evaluate the dangerousness of an area could become better with time or depend on one's abilities, so a full armored bounty hunter might evaluate an area different than a cook.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
You're right, but I still think that's a better way than having guards and walls around all of the more risky parts of towns. I think you don't even need some kind of bar or such. Make your character itself express how he feels like, although that would be quite some kind of work:
- The higher the level of danger, the more the character starts looking around, changes its posture to be able to defend itself in case of attacks. Probably there are more ways to express that which currently don't come to my mind. But, as already said, that would be much of work on the animation part, especially as every race will have an unique set of reactions.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
You're right, but I still think that's a better way than having guards and walls around all of the more risky parts of towns. I think you don't even need some kind of bar or such. Make your character itself express how he feels like, although that would be quite some kind of work:
- The higher the level of danger, the more the character starts looking around, changes its posture to be able to defend itself in case of attacks. Probably there are more ways to express that which currently don't come to my mind. But, as already said, that would be much of work on the animation part, especially as every race will have an unique set of reactions.
Except that you are your character, and your character should only feel anxious if you intend for your character to feel anxious, or if there is some outside force acting on your character such as magic or chemicals. If you don't have the street smarts to recognize a bad part of town, then why should a slider do the work for you? Instead, there should be certain signs such as poor lighting, lack of guards, trash on the ground, shady characters in alley-ways, boarded up windows, etc. And there should be a book (perhaps available only to more street-wise characters) explaning these warning signs.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.
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... Instead, there should be certain signs such as poor lighting, lack of guards, trash on the ground, shady characters in alley-ways, boarded up windows, etc. And there should be a book (perhaps available only to more street-wise characters) explaning these warning signs.
That's an idea I'd fully support!
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.
Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD? Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.
Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD? Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
Not really. it still has stuff showing HP and system related stuff.
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I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.
Absolutely not. If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game. Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that. Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.
Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD? Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
Not really. it still has stuff showing HP and system related stuff.
But wouldn't you say that it has a much greater focus on RPing than tibia, runescape, WoW, etc?
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That's funny, this topic is so redundant ...
If I agree that at least some area should be free PvP for realistic RP purpose, I disagree with the extremism : no HP bar or things like that ?
You want only RP addicted in PS ? That's too discriminative !
One more thing : I play a chaotic evil character on persistant RP world in Neverwinter nights (yes it's possible), that's very enjoyable : servers are full PvP and there is no over killing and stuff like that. It prove (if needed) that players are not THAT stupid and can regulate their actions themself even without a GM watching behind their back. For the little story I'm level 12 (wich is weak in NwN) and never got killed purposelessly by another player...
Not all peoples are the kind : "Kevin 12 years old, Legolas' fan, Elf archer, newbi pk" ;)
And I agree with Suno : that's such a bother not being able to put some chaos in Yliakum.. Their is indeed no point in being evil or good .. Everybody is neutral because nothing bad can be done.
An example ? While Setill was still here we planned a big RP : the attack and takeover of Hydlaa by the Dark Assembly... This never happen because we knew it was an impossible RP, too bad it could have been very fun.
PS: Yes I haven't read all the messages from this thread, just the 2 or three from the beginning and the 2 or 3 from the end.
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An example ? While Setill was still here we planned a big RP : the attack and takeover of Hydlaa by the Dark Assembly... This never happen because we knew it was an impossible RP, too bad it could have been very fun.
Uh, that never happened because neither Setill nor you were in charge of the Dark Assembly... Sangwa himself wasn't even in charge of the Dark Assembly, he was just its founder. Let's not forget that about two thirds of it has been inactive for a very long time. Plus there's the whole issue of defining what it means to "take over Hydlaa".
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if you are going to make an area into a freekilling zone, rather than a popup (good for noobs, bad for immersion), and slider bar was nixed... no offence but i'd nix book as people tend to preffer walking around when staring out than seeking the book & reading before entering... I think while ambiance can hint at the danger, unless you want dr to be freekillzone too (as i think i may have suggested in another thread) you'd need some bretty extreme ambiance... I was even thinking a big skull & crossbones, or even a "ENTER AT OWN RISK" sign in big blood painted letters... but even that, unless its a system type message in some way noobs would take it as scenery, or potential warning of dangerous NPCs, and simply walk up to other players to ask about the area...
Having not so much a guard as say, i dunno a noble hearted thief, triggered by proximity who says something like
"/me steps in your path, you evaluate this [race] could kill you by accident if he so much as sneezed. He booms deeply "If you wish to pass alive you will pay me 100 trias""
if unpaid, when you load past him you get a message
"He sneezed, you died"
& you go to dr.
If paid he says
"/me sniffles and says "Wise to pay me, but not wise to pass, past those doors you could be attacked by ANYONE!""
... it's rpish... kinda... doesn't explain why that happends only there but not in other areas... but its a step in the right direction i think...
(this last part maybe belongs in different thread but i think it would be appropriate to have a force duel option, and make safe zones (not to say INSTEAD of free kill zone, could be as well as...) ... like near shops, trainers & resources perhaps, to add somehow that mineable areas and trade range with non-combattive NPCs both areas no pvp could happen even if initiated out of the zone... Justified for rp by npc saying "/me warns you "take it elsewhere or i'll send you elsewhere"" after, say, 3? of those messages the NPC smites you themself... In mines "your footing is unstable, so you can't attack" in system, would be the fighter's equivalent of "you don't see a good place to dig"...
Since forcing duels seems like an easy way for mean people to mess with new players, there would have to be some extra something to make it less of an option & more of a last resort-- either by bribing guards a fair amount of trais to allow it, or if in 'forced' duel the aggressor takes a handicap... or a glyph of 'spite' to force the player to be angry enough to accept whther they like it or not. or handicap plus another... I can imagine it makes the caster weaker when casting spite, and the target stronger by adrenaline & rage.. ok now i may be babbling, and perhaps should stop. Feedback please.)
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@ Anne Omnius:
I think that would be a bit too smallish.
I think it's more realistic that there are cities, main roads, whatever, where you can't aesily attack someone. Or, if not citywide, those areas should at least span several blocks or city parts. If it's possible to implement, it could go like that:
You want to attack someone. There is a message: "Do you really want to mess with the city guards?" If you say yes, you're free to do, but marked as murderer, so the guards go after you and everyone is free to kill you.
Maybe you could even be arrested (injured by the guards so that you can't do any resistance anymore), and have to spend some long time in-game imprisoned with very limited means of communication (no /shouts, no or limited /tells, stuff like that.)
That would also make room for player-run guards also being able to arrest criminals.
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People can sense when they are in danger, sometimes. It is a fact. Players, however, can not sense what their characters are. There has to be some sort of feed back.
For entering dangerous zones, or places you may be attacked, use sound. Your heart will quicken in the silence of a path you are not alone on. The creatures have gone quite. Was that just the snap of a twig falling? A footstep....? Your heart beats faster. You know you are in danger...
On the other hand, some folks like sliders. I say to each his own. Put them in, but make them options. if you don't like it, close the thing. Like I do with...everything. :)
As for the PvP and theiving issue....hmmm.....I have ideas. I believe I stated some of them in a thread a while back.... "Cut off thier hands!", I think it was. ;) But, now that I have played more, I will rethink the subject.
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Why not use sound and music instead of visual aids?
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Why not use sound and music instead of visual aids?
Because not everybody plays with Sound enabled ...
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zanzibar not to antagonize you or anything but although RP is heavily encouraged in PS I can happily say with conviction as a RPGer of over 12 years (and i'm not talking about computer games i'm talking about real roleplaying games where you dont have visual aids and your imagination creates the world and the characters within it) that planeshif tis not a puritan RPG, if it was it would probably be text only with very little graphical display. At the end of the day even though this is a RPG and easily the best I have come across on a computer (yes even at this stage of development) for roleplay, it is nonetheless still a COMPUTER game. The OOC elements of the game will always have an effect on your playing. An example would be weapons, everbody i have seen sells weapons with descriptions similar to "selling frosty bs /5.4"etc, now really, if this was purely roleplay and nothing else your character would turn round and say "what the hell are you talking about, what does bs mean? and why are you saying random numbers?" Are you getting my point yet? As it has already been pointed out, not everybody plays with sound enabled when they play PS, that means that aural signs for entering a dangerous area would be discounted straight off. I think the visual signs have potential (dark alleys, filthy streets, beggars etc) and the slider bar also has alot of potential, how do we know to heal our characters without the health bar? I think a "nervous" bar would be a very good idea.
Another idea I had with regards to open PvP areas is having not only NPCs warning you from going into them (which incidentally I think would be far more realistic if it was done without guards outside said areas but when you ask an NPC "tell me about Hydlaa, they would give the usual descriptions you get now but would aslo mention 'the shades' - stolen from terry pratchett :P - in the such and such district where it is dangerous for unexperienced travellers) but NPC mercenaries who players could hire as guids, I have seen mercenaries implemented in other games online and they could be done with the simple task of if the character is under attack, the mercenary attacks the attacker. I think NPC mercenaries should be fairly expensive however, allowing PC mercenaries and mercenary guilds (I am a member of such a guild) to 'undercut' prices and therefore open up new areas of RP which are currently hard to achieve in a realistic way in PS. At the moment I find that being a mercenary in PS means that people assume you are an assassin, usually along the vain of "if you beat me in a duel I will pay you to take out this guy" now this is another issue so I won't go much further on this topic other than to say a mercenary is someone hired to achieve a goal be it defending a person, finding an object or complete a quest or fight in a war, rarely an assassin. But if NPC mercenaries and PC mercenaries were on hand to escort new PC through the PvP areas then it would make it easier for new players to explore Yliakum and it would allow mercenaries to truly playout the role they have chosen in PS.
Rob.
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There was a game I played a few years ago called The fourth Coming. Their way of preventing PvP in downs and outposts were two things:
a) There was a "magical stone" placed in the middle of each town that prevented people from taking violent actions by affecting their concious. The way to avoud this was to obtain a scroll of pure thought, which made you immune to this stone for 5 minutes. The problem was that if you killed or attacked anyone, or anything, the militia (NPCS) would come and kill you. This prevented people who wanted to PK from infiltrating towns because they were dead if they did.
b) Along with a militia,PS could have sort of a jail system. If your character was caught PvPing, they would be lockied in a jail cell for 2-3 days. When you logged on to a jailed character, you would simply be in a cell that you couldnt escape from. I dont think people would really PK if they knew that there would be consiquences.
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zanzibar not to antagonize you or anything but although RP is heavily encouraged in PS I can happily say with conviction as a RPGer of over 12 years (and i'm not talking about computer games i'm talking about real roleplaying games where you dont have visual aids and your imagination creates the world and the characters within it) that planeshif tis not a puritan RPG
Having visual aids means that it's not a real roleplaying game? ???
An example would be weapons, everbody i have seen sells weapons with descriptions similar to "selling frosty bs /5.4"etc, now really, if this was purely roleplay and nothing else your character would turn round and say "what the hell are you talking about, what does bs mean?[/thread]
People respond to OOC chat like that quite often, actually. OOC chat is against the rules and people can be punished for it.
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Having visual aids means that it's not a real roleplaying game? ???
I have another point of view regarding that, visual aids just take from us part of the necessity of using imagination to immerse ourselves deeply in the roleplay, as long as it doesn't include a freaking targeting system, items that flash in white, enemies that flash in red or an warning when someone is behind your back(First person view is the best for roleplay reasons in regard to that, although traditionally was associated with certain anti-roleplay kinds of games)
Claiming such thing is the same that saying no to the action figures, location drawings or character pictures that sometimes are used in roleplaying sessions. The only difference is that it closes the gap and generates an homogeneous view of the scenario being roleplayed for everyone. As regardless of the details a DM will put about the location of the PCs or about the physical appearance of the NPCs, different roleplayers will imagine visually such descriptions differently. It may be considered to block the capability of imagination from the players, but otherwise it is fully acceptable from the roleplaying perspective.
The main problem I see in Planeshift that strays it away from a true roleplaying game is the fact that combat(specially duels) depends largely on the player skills with timing and on their connection speed and ping. Of course the current in game mechanisms shouldn't be judged as final and probably in the distant future PS reaches 1.0, things will be much closer to the ideal of merging RPGs with CRPGs on its gameplay.
About PvP: I disagree with the current system, if someone comes to attempt murder against your character, he will not challenge him for a duel first. Still it's temporarily necessary until city guards receive patrol routes and a decent Artificial Intelligence to make the main roads safe and to go against anyone that tries to use violence or to murder someone else. Also to avoid mistypings, a message should come for potential harmers, that will change according to the level of security on where one will attempt it. Example is below.
Warning in high safety zones:
"Use of violence will prompt immediate reaction from the city guards against you, are you sure you wish to attack *name* ?"
Warning in medium safety zones:
"If you attempt to use brute force against *name* the guards will sooner or later get you, are you sure you wish to risk your reputation and a bounty on your head?"
Warning in low safety zones:
"You will risk future retaliation if you attack *name*, although you have high chances of succeeding if you can defeat *name, remember that covering your tracks will not be easy after it. Are you sure?"
High safety zones: Always patrolled by guards, trying something is considered suicide in most cases
Medium safety zones: They are not always patrolled and patrols are irregularly timed, but who knows? A guard may spot you doing nasty things when you least expect it as you can't time when will a new patrol arrive.
Low safety zones: With the same security of a slum, these places are infested with criminal activity, you can commit the crime, but whether you will escape with impunity or be caught after it, it's unsure.
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Ok say you want to go kill someone. The player that you are trying to kill gets a popup that asks whether they want to fight back or not. If they press fight back, then you fight back. If you don't, then you shout for police npcs that will immediately come fight the attacker. This gives the victim a chance to get away and if you are lucky the attacker will be taken to jail.
Once you are in jail you can pay a bail, you can try try to escape or you can commit suicide. Also, if you have enough trias, you can pay for a trial and if you win, you may be able to get out.
Also if you are being attacked, fighting back instead of calling the police will give exp in a courage skill or something. The higher rank you have on the courage skill, the more bonus you get when you are attacked. Also, the higher difference between the power of the attacker and the victim, the more bonus the victim gets. For example, if you are a high level and you are attacking a low level, the victim would be harder to kill.
Just an idea
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My one concern for that which would be comparative to open pvp against the npcs is that too often I click on them intending to talk to them and get the "so and so is invulnerable to attack". It'd be unrealistic for me to kill them, that's for sure, but a simple misclick could have me do just that, which would put me in a world of hurt from the guards or other players or what have you.
Edit: Perhaps an option that will allow the invulnerable things to stay, so that we don't accidentally kill someone we didn't mean to.
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My one concern for that which would be comparative to open pvp against the npcs is that too often I click on them intending to talk to them and get the "so and so is invulnerable to attack".
This is part of the whole issue I have of allowing players to attack each other, but having guards protect them. The bounty hunter, guard, jail system is a popular topic of discusion, but few take in consideration the potential for mis-clicks and bugs. If you have a "safe zone" in the game, just make is so it is impossible to attack. This is the most fool proof way. I personally have been killed by trainers and guards in other games many times from mis-clicks, usually from questing, and have always whished at least my trainer would just stun me or something instead of the insta-kill. Thankfully, PS does not have such a thing. Implementing any kind of guard protection would probably change that.
It is realatively easy to have a safe zone and a rpk zone, anything inbetween is much more complecated to do, and typically introduces more bugs, exploits than it fixes.