Author Topic: How Unrealistic  (Read 5359 times)

Suno_Regin

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How Unrealistic
« on: April 27, 2006, 07:36:01 pm »
In real life, some guy can rob a store, run away, shoot at a few cops, get killed or injured himself, and thrown in jail. In Yliakum, you can walk around, click the attack button, read the words that say "This person is invulnerable to attack" and walk away.

How unrealistic is that? I don't care how many troubles it would cause, if I wanna swing my sword at someone, I should be able to. No flashy red words at the top of a window my character IC wouldn't be able to see can't keep me from doing it. The person has to give an RP reason for doing so, though. Maybe he just wants what the person has? Maybe he has a duty to fulfill? Maybe he wants to practice his skills? Whatever the situation, if you wanna attack a guy you don't like, you should be allowed to. Dueling isn't the same, because if they decline your challenge, you can't slash at them and kill them, you just stand there calling them a coward or something. What's the point of having a good and evil, if the evil can't do anything to cause chaos, and the good can't do anything to stop chaos? Maybe I don't like Harnquist's prices? *slash, steal, run* simple.

Karyuu

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2006, 08:26:16 pm »
Not quite so simple. What you are suggesting is open PKing, and something the dev team is against quite a bit because preventing griefers will be complicated. Unless you have some neat suggestions about it?
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zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 12:42:16 am »
The NPCs aren't really invulnerable.  Your conscience just stops you each time.
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Waylander

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 12:46:07 am »
Not to be promoting other games.  But DarkFall is set to come out shortly after E3, that'll probably more to your liking.
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Necromagvs

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 01:13:17 pm »
if the game idea were of beeing attacking like a mad berserker (just to make my point clear, mad berserker) then we should name it the bloody arena or something like that...

i actually play with the pvp off i dont want to fight other players, i am playing for the sake of interacting, talking, competing, whatever, if i want hack and slash i can go and play... whatever...
but not PS please.

zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 02:15:45 pm »
if the game idea were of beeing attacking like a mad berserker (just to make my point clear, mad berserker) then we should name it the bloody arena or something like that...

i actually play with the pvp off i dont want to fight other players, i am playing for the sake of interacting, talking, competing, whatever, if i want hack and slash i can go and play... whatever...
but not PS please.



I think PVP has its place.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Suno_Regin

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 02:21:35 pm »
So you say Yliakum is a world without crime, curruption, evil, thieves, and wrong-doers? How wrong you are. People any time they want, as long as they have skills with a dagger, lockpicking, looting, whatever, can just come up and steal a few trias out of wherever you have them kept. Now, that character's defensive skills come in handy, maybe skilled in melee or sword, which would stop them from getting close. This person would have then have attempted thievery, and thus they can kill or be killed by any player. PvP and thieving play hand in hand from what I'm suggesting. People may see someone being robbed, and try to beat down the thief and return what belonged to the person. Or even kill them and steal the things for themselves, it depends on how desperate and strong the person is.

ThomPhoenix

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 02:56:32 pm »
Open PvP is not possible, can you imagine?
* newbie walks his first stroll through Hydlaa, watching the trees, the people, the city. He sees a man named Harnquist who cheerfully waves at him. He walks to Harnquist to ask him... CHOP!!! AAAH!! MY ARM!!! What the HELL are you DOING! *gimme your stuffs" I AM NEW! * oh, then..." SLASH!!
That would be the average life of someone new to the game.
We're not evil. We're simply amazing.

Rioth

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2006, 07:52:53 pm »
Well open PvP would surely not be possible everywhere, but I guess there could be some entire cities where it would be allowed, or there could be some areas of a town, of a forest ect.. where PvP would be allowed.

Let me explain my thought. If only some full cities had PvP enabled, it could easily not be among the ones players are starting in. A good explanation would be that there are and have always been some towns were there is only the rule of might. Put it together and you have your city with open PvP and some kind of organised crime. It could be chaotic from time to time, but the need to have one's back being looked after will get players to group in guilds or organisations and this will eventualy lead to some players made rules proper to each city with open PvP.

However, while this could be an option, I do believe it's still not verry realistic to limit open PvP areas to full cities only. In my opinion, it would be better to have some open PvP areas scattered a bit everywhere. Every towns usualy have their shady streets and places people don't usualy go unless they have business to do. It's the same with forests and other 'wild' areas. Of course full cities or places with open PvP could still be possible.

Now to avoid new players to get in such places in their starting towns.. I guess having walls around open PvP areas with guards at the openings to warn and prevent new players to get inside would be a solution. It would impossible for the new player to get through until he says the guard that he is getting there on his own will and knowing what's waiting for him ahead. This would happen the first times a new player tries to get in or be triggered during his first hours of play. Guards would give their warnings to anyone no matter what. The game guide could also give more in depth explanations the first time a player get near such a place. To also prevent them from being attacked as soon as they get in the said area, there could be a timer to prrotect them from open PvP (unless by 'challenge' way) or/and guards at the other side that would defend the player. The look of the open PvP areas would also be different from the usual city streets, to make it clear that they are dangerous places.

Outside of cities (or any other inhabitated place for that matter) the open PvP areas would still have a self explaining look about them, but nothing would prevent anyone to get in there. There could still be a timer preventing open PvP a server message stating that the area allows open PvP, but nothing more. After all, it will be the players faults if they leave a main road for exploration and such, and bandit raids are a part of exploration risks as much as ending face to face with an Ulbernaut.

Logging or loading maps in such areas would also enable a timer preventing the player to be attacked until it's sure he has finished loading and is fully aware of his surroundings.

Now this only considers open PvP, but to have the perfect settings, open passive NPC versus Player should also be defined. My opinion on the matter is clear. I think players should be able to attack any NPC anytime anywhere. Every now and then, people will bring the fact that if this ever happens some important NPCs could easily be killed over and over, which would disrupt any business players can have with them. What I would have toanswer is that NPCs don't necessarily have to be defenceless. There would be city guards ect.. I don't think Harnquist would mind smashing the head of someone bugging him with his hammer... Besides NPCs wouldn't  be killed but only knocked out, and players can always heal them and help them. The best thing would be to have people attacking NPCs being flagged so that any player can attack them freely. This would be only fair.

There would be much less or even no guards in the open PvP areas (would also depend if the guards mentioned are normal city guards or just guards of a local faction of course), and there would be bandits and such. The NPCs there could be more or less important and more or less protected by their own guards ect.. Players would understand soon enough if they are hurting their own business and will protect some NPCs themselves (or try to get profit out of it or whatever else they can think of). One could say some players would attack NPCs only to get their powerful weapons or equipment. Well I don't think a skilled guard needs to be wielding an 'Ultimate Fire Longsword of the End of Times+13' in order to kill or stop some random player foolish enough to attack him. It's eay to get some reasons that would prevent such cases, and it's more than possible to make it not worth trying at all.

I think this could also be easily extended to stealing and any other 'unpleasant' skills. Someone who is holding some precious items and goes in an open PvP area can only blame himself if he gets robbed or get killed, since there would be no way to get in such places without being warned.

As always, RP should be the master rule no matter where you are, so open PvP shouldn't be a reason for having OOC behaviors or anything of the sort.

Now there should also be some ways of catching players and bring them to some sort of justice with penalities waiting for the outlaws according to the crimes they did. Such a penality system should be extremly well balanced so that players will think twice before doing something and so that it won't spoil the fun of RPing a 'shady' character. Allowing open PvP and passive NPC versus player everywhere would only be possible if every rules are extremly well balanced, and to balance them there will always be the need to test things on given areas were PvP would be allowed.

I'm not saying this is the best idea around or that those have never been thought out before. I'm only trying to give my thoughts on the matter, hoping that in the best case, the devs could get some ideas if any of them ever read that.

PS: seems like the post was a bit longer than intended  :sweatdrop:
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Rioth

Suno_Regin

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 08:15:39 pm »
Way longer, I don't even wanna read it. XD

Anyone interested, read Rioth's post...I think it's good. =P

Karyuu

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2006, 08:21:06 pm »
There's no point in writing "Too long, didn't read it" and then leaving it at that :P It's spammy. Don't do it.

Rioth: I think that's an extremely good example of a well-thought out suggestion for a controversial issue, and I wouldn't mind having something like this in place :) It allows new players to get settled in and understand how the game works without being jumped onto, actually -creates- roleplay (for example weaker players would want to hire bodyguards or guides if they are traveling through the unsafe wilderness), and is realistic without creating immediate problems (that I can see). Good job!

It's but one opinion, but I really do like it.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Suno_Regin

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 05:52:09 pm »
Well you're maybe the only person high up that reads this, Karyuu. Think you could nudge Talad? He could make it a future option or something. =P

Karyuu

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2006, 06:18:20 pm »
I'll try to nudge :} Can't promise anything this remotely complicated any time soon, however.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Suno_Regin

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 07:06:48 pm »
I've noticed he'd really common around the time of new updates or small bug fixes. =P

Do you know when the next update is?

Karyuu

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 09:35:29 pm »
I see him every day on IRC.

I think someone posted on the forums sometime that we'll be trying to have updates every two months or so.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.