Author Topic: How Unrealistic  (Read 5360 times)

zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2006, 12:09:57 am »
I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.


Absolutely not.  If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game.  Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that.  Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.



Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD?  Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
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sesmi

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2006, 09:06:48 pm »
I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.


Absolutely not.  If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game.  Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that.  Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.



Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD?  Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
Not really. it still has stuff showing HP and system related stuff.

zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2006, 02:51:23 pm »
I'd rather implement some sort of display that roughly shows you how dangerous the area is. Let it be a slider bar or some image changing with the feeling of security you have, etc.


Absolutely not.  If a slider or warning popped up on your screen, then it would be a very strong reminder that you're playing a video game.  Health and mana bars are bad enough without clutter like that.  Instead, people should rely on common sense and past experiences to make such judgements.
This isn't a strict puritan RPG. most that enforce that are MUDs. I hae seen some people complain about GUI beyond just viewpoint and allowing view outside 1st person, even suggesting that people should have to make a new character if they die. alot of people who complain about things like this are MUD users and don't understand how graphical MMORPGs have to work.



Didn't Planeshift start off as a MUD?  Besides, Planeshift is a relatively puritan roleplaying computer game, so I don't think it's wrong to avoid sliders and popups.
Not really. it still has stuff showing HP and system related stuff.


But wouldn't you say that it has a much greater focus on RPing than tibia, runescape, WoW, etc?
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Baston

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2006, 01:35:10 pm »
That's funny, this topic is so redundant ...
If I agree that at least some area should be free PvP for realistic RP purpose, I disagree with the extremism : no HP bar or things like that ?
You want only RP addicted in PS ? That's too discriminative !

One more thing : I play a chaotic evil character on persistant RP world in Neverwinter nights (yes it's possible), that's very enjoyable : servers are full PvP and there is no over killing and stuff like that. It prove (if needed) that players are not THAT stupid and can regulate their actions themself even without a GM watching behind their back. For the little story I'm level 12 (wich is weak in NwN) and never got killed purposelessly by another player...
Not all peoples are the kind : "Kevin 12 years old, Legolas' fan, Elf archer, newbi pk" ;)

And I agree with Suno : that's such a bother not being able to put some chaos in Yliakum.. Their is indeed no point in being evil or good .. Everybody is neutral because nothing bad can be done.
An example ? While Setill was still here we planned a big RP : the attack and takeover of Hydlaa by the Dark Assembly... This never happen because we knew it was an impossible RP, too bad it could have been very fun.

PS: Yes I haven't read all the messages from this thread, just the 2 or three from the beginning and the 2 or 3 from the end.


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zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 03:53:03 am »
An example ? While Setill was still here we planned a big RP : the attack and takeover of Hydlaa by the Dark Assembly... This never happen because we knew it was an impossible RP, too bad it could have been very fun.



Uh, that never happened because neither Setill nor you were in charge of the Dark Assembly... Sangwa himself wasn't even in charge of the Dark Assembly, he was just its founder.  Let's not forget that about two thirds of it has been inactive for a very long time.  Plus there's the whole issue of defining what it means to "take over Hydlaa".
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Anne Ominous

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2006, 06:39:52 am »
if you are going to make an area into a freekilling zone, rather than a popup (good for noobs, bad for immersion), and slider bar was nixed... no offence but i'd nix book as people tend to preffer walking around when staring out than seeking the book & reading before entering... I think while ambiance can hint at the danger, unless you want dr to be freekillzone too (as i think i may have suggested in another thread) you'd need some bretty extreme ambiance... I was even thinking a big skull & crossbones, or even a "ENTER AT OWN RISK" sign in big blood painted letters... but even that, unless its a system type message in some way noobs would take it as scenery, or potential warning of dangerous NPCs, and simply walk up to other players to ask about the area...

Having not so much a guard as say, i dunno a noble hearted thief, triggered by proximity who says something like

"/me steps in your path, you evaluate this [race] could kill you by accident if he so much as sneezed. He booms deeply "If you wish to pass alive you will pay me 100 trias""

if unpaid, when you load past him you get a message

"He sneezed, you died"

& you go to dr.
If paid he says

"/me sniffles and says "Wise to pay me, but not wise to pass, past those doors you could be attacked by ANYONE!""

... it's rpish... kinda... doesn't explain why that happends only there but not in other areas... but its a step in the right direction i think...





(this last part maybe belongs in different thread but i think it would be appropriate to have a force duel option, and make safe zones (not to say INSTEAD of free kill zone, could be as well as...) ... like near shops, trainers & resources perhaps, to add somehow that mineable areas and trade range with non-combattive NPCs both areas no pvp could happen even if initiated out of the zone... Justified for rp by npc saying "/me warns you "take it elsewhere or i'll send you elsewhere"" after, say, 3? of those messages the NPC smites you themself... In mines "your footing is unstable, so you can't attack" in system, would be the fighter's equivalent of "you don't see a good place to dig"...
Since forcing duels seems like an easy way for mean people to mess with new players, there would have to be some extra something to make it less of an option & more of a last resort-- either by bribing guards a fair amount of trais to allow it, or if in 'forced' duel the aggressor takes a handicap... or a glyph of 'spite' to force the player to be angry enough to accept whther they like it or not. or handicap plus another... I can imagine it makes the caster weaker when casting spite, and the target stronger by adrenaline & rage.. ok now i may be babbling, and perhaps should stop. Feedback please.)

Rolf Blacksmith

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2006, 04:00:08 pm »
@ Anne Omnius:

I think that would be a bit too smallish.
I think it's more realistic that there are cities, main roads, whatever, where you can't aesily attack someone. Or, if not citywide, those areas should at least span several blocks or city parts. If it's possible to implement, it could go like that:

You want to attack someone. There is a message: "Do you really want to mess with the city guards?" If you say yes, you're free to do, but marked as murderer, so the guards go after you and everyone is free to kill you.

Maybe you could even be arrested (injured by the guards so that you can't do any resistance anymore), and have to spend some long time in-game imprisoned with very limited means of communication (no /shouts, no or limited /tells, stuff like that.)

That would also make room for player-run guards also being able to arrest criminals.
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Under the moon

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2006, 06:27:42 pm »
People can sense when they are in danger, sometimes. It is a fact. Players, however, can not sense what their characters are. There has to be some sort of feed back.

For entering dangerous zones, or places you may be attacked, use sound. Your heart will quicken in the silence of a path you are not alone on. The creatures have gone quite. Was that just the snap of a twig falling? A footstep....? Your heart beats faster. You know you are in danger...

On the other hand, some folks like sliders. I say to each his own. Put them in, but make them options. if you don't like it, close the thing. Like I do with...everything. :)

As for the PvP and theiving issue....hmmm.....I have ideas. I believe I stated some of them in a thread a while back.... "Cut off thier hands!", I think it was. ;) But, now that I have played more, I will rethink the subject.

zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2006, 01:56:41 pm »
Why not use sound and music instead of visual aids?
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Rolf Blacksmith

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2006, 04:40:02 pm »
Why not use sound and music instead of visual aids?

Because not everybody plays with Sound enabled ...
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RayvenD

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2006, 03:57:23 pm »
zanzibar not to antagonize you or anything but although RP is heavily encouraged in PS I can happily say with conviction as a RPGer of over 12 years (and i'm not talking about computer games i'm talking about real roleplaying games where you dont have visual aids and your imagination creates the world and the characters within it) that planeshif tis not a puritan RPG, if it was it would probably be text only with very little graphical display. At the end of the day even though this is a RPG and easily the best I have come across on a computer (yes even at this stage of development) for roleplay, it is nonetheless still a COMPUTER game. The OOC elements of the game will always have an effect on your playing. An example would be weapons, everbody i have seen sells weapons with descriptions similar to "selling frosty bs /5.4"etc, now really, if this was purely roleplay and nothing else your character would turn round and say "what the hell are you talking about, what does bs mean? and why are you saying random numbers?" Are you getting my point yet? As it has already been pointed out, not everybody plays with sound enabled when they play PS, that means that aural signs for entering a dangerous area would be discounted straight off.  I think the visual signs have potential (dark alleys, filthy streets, beggars etc) and the slider bar also has alot of potential, how do we know to heal our characters without the health bar? I think a "nervous" bar would be a very good idea.

Another idea I had with regards to open PvP areas is having not only NPCs warning you from going into them (which incidentally I think would be far more realistic if it was done without guards outside said areas but when you ask an NPC "tell me about Hydlaa, they would give the usual descriptions you get now but would aslo mention 'the shades' - stolen from terry pratchett :P - in the such and such district where it is dangerous for unexperienced travellers) but NPC mercenaries who players could hire as guids, I have seen mercenaries implemented in other games online and they could be done with the simple task of if the character is under attack, the mercenary attacks the attacker. I think NPC mercenaries should be fairly expensive however, allowing PC mercenaries and mercenary guilds (I am a member of such a guild) to 'undercut' prices and therefore open up new areas of RP which are currently hard to achieve in a realistic way in PS. At the moment I find that being a mercenary in PS means that people assume you are an assassin, usually along the vain of "if you beat me in a duel I will pay you to take out this guy" now this is another issue so I won't go much further on this topic other than to say a mercenary is someone hired to achieve a goal be it defending a person, finding an object or complete a quest or fight in a war, rarely an assassin.  But if NPC mercenaries and PC mercenaries were on hand to escort new PC through the PvP areas then it would make it easier for new players to explore Yliakum and it would allow mercenaries to truly playout the role they have chosen in PS.

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Shimmabuku

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2007, 11:16:52 am »
    There was a game I played a few years ago called The fourth Coming. Their way of preventing PvP in downs and outposts were two things:
a) There was a "magical stone" placed in the middle of each town that prevented people from taking violent actions by affecting their concious. The way to avoud this was to obtain a scroll of pure thought, which made you immune to this stone for 5 minutes.  The problem was that if you killed or attacked anyone, or anything, the militia (NPCS) would come and kill you. This prevented people who wanted to PK from infiltrating towns because they were dead if they did.

b)  Along with a militia,PS could have sort of a jail system. If your character was caught PvPing, they would be lockied in a jail cell for  2-3 days. When you logged on to a jailed character, you would simply be in a cell that you couldnt escape from. I dont think people would really PK if they knew that there would be consiquences.
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zanzibar

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2007, 01:50:54 pm »
zanzibar not to antagonize you or anything but although RP is heavily encouraged in PS I can happily say with conviction as a RPGer of over 12 years (and i'm not talking about computer games i'm talking about real roleplaying games where you dont have visual aids and your imagination creates the world and the characters within it) that planeshif tis not a puritan RPG
Having visual aids means that it's not a real roleplaying game? ???

An example would be weapons, everbody i have seen sells weapons with descriptions similar to "selling frosty bs /5.4"etc, now really, if this was purely roleplay and nothing else your character would turn round and say "what the hell are you talking about, what does bs mean?[/thread]
People respond to OOC chat like that quite often, actually.  OOC chat is against the rules and people can be punished for it.


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lordraleigh

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2007, 10:50:41 pm »
Having visual aids means that it's not a real roleplaying game? ???

I have another point of view regarding that, visual aids just take from us part of the necessity of using imagination to immerse ourselves deeply in the roleplay, as long as it doesn't include a freaking targeting system, items that flash in white, enemies that flash in red or an warning when someone is behind your back(First person view is the best for roleplay reasons in regard to that, although traditionally was associated with certain anti-roleplay kinds of games)

Claiming such thing is the same that saying no to the action figures, location drawings or character pictures that sometimes are used in roleplaying sessions. The only difference is that it closes the gap and generates an homogeneous view of the scenario being roleplayed for everyone. As regardless of the details a DM will put about the location of the PCs or about the physical appearance of the NPCs, different roleplayers will imagine visually such descriptions differently. It may be considered to block the capability of imagination from the players, but otherwise it is fully acceptable from the roleplaying perspective.

The main problem I see in Planeshift that strays it away from a true roleplaying game is the fact that combat(specially duels) depends largely on the player skills with timing and on their connection speed and ping. Of course the current in game mechanisms shouldn't be judged as final and probably in the distant future PS reaches 1.0, things will be much closer to the ideal of merging RPGs with CRPGs on its gameplay.

About PvP: I disagree with the current system, if someone comes to attempt murder against your character, he will not challenge him for a duel first. Still it's temporarily necessary until city guards receive patrol routes and a decent Artificial Intelligence to make the main roads safe and to go against anyone that tries to use violence or to murder someone else. Also to avoid mistypings, a message should come for potential harmers, that will change according to the level of security on where one will attempt it. Example is below.

Warning in high safety zones:
"Use of violence will prompt immediate reaction from the city guards against you, are you sure you wish to attack *name* ?"

Warning in medium safety zones:
"If you attempt to use brute force against *name* the guards will sooner or later get you, are you sure you wish to risk your reputation and a bounty on your head?"

Warning in low safety zones:
"You will risk future retaliation if you attack *name*, although you have high chances of succeeding if you can defeat *name, remember that covering your tracks will not be easy after it. Are you sure?"

High safety zones: Always patrolled by guards, trying something is considered suicide in most cases

Medium safety zones: They are not always patrolled and patrols are irregularly timed, but who knows? A guard may spot you doing nasty things when you least expect it as you can't time when will a new patrol arrive.

Low safety zones: With the same security of a slum, these places are infested with criminal activity, you can commit the crime, but whether you will escape with impunity or be caught after it, it's unsure.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 11:03:41 pm by lordraleigh »

tsm1917

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Re: How Unrealistic
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2007, 09:40:27 am »
 Ok say you want to go kill someone.  The player that you are trying to kill gets a popup that asks whether they want to fight back or not.  If they press fight back, then you fight back.  If you don't, then you shout for police npcs that will immediately come fight the attacker.  This gives the victim a chance to get away and if you are lucky the attacker will be taken to jail.
 Once you are in jail you can pay a bail, you can try try to escape or you can commit suicide.  Also, if you have enough trias, you can pay for a trial and if you win, you may be able to get out. 
 Also if you are being attacked, fighting back instead of calling the police will give exp in a courage skill or something.  The higher rank you have on the courage skill, the more bonus you get when you are attacked.  Also, the higher difference between the power of the attacker and the victim, the more bonus the victim gets.  For example, if you are a high level and you are attacking a low level, the victim would be harder to kill. 
 Just an idea