Author Topic: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell  (Read 7001 times)

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2007, 11:29:02 am »
I've seen it more than once, someone coming around with the "Power Glyph of Doom" and the "Immortal, Unaffected by Guards Slavers Of All" just to have a big fancy war in the end where people fight, people die, people live, people fight, people die, people live and nothing comes out if afterwards. Everything becomes just the way it was before the uberness had settled.

Really people. Some of you just need to expand your perspective of roleplay. Nowadays people "roleplay" fights like I roleplay Sangwa going to the tavern. Vulgar, daily, boring.
When you read a fantasy book you're not just hoping to see fights. You're also hoping to see magic, feelings, surprises and fun.

Can guilds fight for controlling territories?

A: Yes, if the whole PS community agrees on a guild assuming the control of a certain location on RP, but on the game itself, no.

Can real wars provoke impact in the economy?

A: Not on the game engine, besides the fact silverweaves may have an increase in demand(Roleplaying an economical crisis is next to impossible as many won't agree with it).

Can fortresses be built, with defensive siege weapons inside, that will give anyone trying to invade it a real challenge that does not involve random one-hit kills with silverweaves but a real, epic and longlasting siege?

A: No, but once Planeshift reaches 1.0, hopefully yes. Unfortunately, it is too big for being roleplayed, and deciding which army wins the battle in a roll of a dice won't help at all in the agreement between both sides.

Can a fighter ride a ryunaak armed with a lance to operate as a knight in warfare?

A: Obviously no, and few would accept such thing in roleplay.

Does this all justifies many "wars for nothing" per month?

A: No way. No one make wars because "they're cool". In most cases, such things will be preceded by a long and tense diplomatic crisis, by some kind of "igniter" and by several other previous political and economical reasons, like the example below about the real World War I:

Quote
On June 28, 1914, Gavrilo Princip shot and killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Austria-Hungarian throne, and his wife, in Sarajevo after purchasing a sandwich. Princip was a member of Young Bosnia, a group whose aims included the unification of the South Slavs and independence from Austria-Hungary (see also: the Black Hand). The assassination in Sarajevo set into motion a series of fast-moving events that escalated into a full-scale war. However, the ultimate causes of the conflict were multiple and complex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I#Causes

And real wars also bring real consequences. Any casualities on a seriously roleplayed war should be permanent at most cases(In other words, you can't just bring your dead character back to life after only few minutes from when this character was killed) and it also should bring other consequences, there are too much "1337 w4rs t0 pwn n00bs" in Planeshift.

dying_inside

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2007, 06:38:07 pm »
Because manic evil guilds DO  murder people.
Its their purpose!
its ridiculous that guild wars need to be accepted by both sides.


Coneitic

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2007, 06:46:57 pm »
why would it be a worry if someone went around killing noobs in a guild war? a leader should decide whether his guild is ready for a war, if not the war wouldnt start..
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Xyl

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2007, 07:11:59 pm »
Why not just restrict open guild wars to somewhere like the arena? That will prevent all out chaos in the world and stop the guilds just fighting anyone, noobs or RPer's, and you'll only be able to war against another guild if your in the arena and the war is declared. People could even come and watch from the arena grand stands  ;D Even place bets on which guild will win  :devil:

I think World of Warcraft has something like this called "Battlefields"... Not a WOW player, so correct me if I am wrong....


*Puts on Craig Charles voice*
LET THE WARS BEGIN!
Cheers,

Kiare Valencia
Dwarven \"Jack of all trades, Master of none\"




ramlambmoo

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 07:21:42 pm »
Quote
why would it be a worry if someone went around killing noobs in a guild war? a leader should decide whether his guild is ready for a war, if not the war wouldnt start..

Yes but the entire point of the thread is to make it so one leader doesn't have any choice at all whether the war starts.  It would be abused.

emeraldfool

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Irish (adj.): Cynical; morally bankrupt
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio (or at least what I've bothered to upload...)
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2007, 08:11:53 pm »
We need to devise a system that's both realistic and ordered.

To do that we'd have to take a close look at the dynamics of how real-world factions clash.



The main thing I see is - exterminations, genocide, brutal organised assaults (i.e. terrorism) all happen without warning in the real world. But the thing that prevents them from happening constantly are the governing bodies' army/police force, which step in to eliminate the threat.

The only realistic and unabusable system I could think of is where guards attack anyone who starts trouble. Gangs (i.e. guilds) would have to settle their disputes outside the cities, just like in real life, and the 'newbies' can stay under the watchful eyes of the guards, or hire PCs to guard them (which would open up a new, potentially profitable outlet for 'duelists' and their need to fight).

Croconil

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 642
  • <3 Peacer!
    • View Profile
    • Talk Box
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2007, 10:13:31 am »
Why not just restrict open guild wars to somewhere like the arena?

Like an, Elder Scrolls Oblivion style arena. You go there to fight, and if you win, you get money, move up in ranks depending on how many Wins-losses and who you defeat. People can come from outside and watch in the stands, and they can place wagers on who they think will win the fights.

emeraldfool

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Irish (adj.): Cynical; morally bankrupt
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio (or at least what I've bothered to upload...)
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 10:48:51 am »
Why not just restrict open guild wars to somewhere like the arena?

Like an, Elder Scrolls Oblivion style arena. You go there to fight, and if you win, you get money, move up in ranks depending on how many Wins-losses and who you defeat. People can come from outside and watch in the stands, and they can place wagers on who they think will win the fights.

What if you want to RP a proper war?

Croconil

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 642
  • <3 Peacer!
    • View Profile
    • Talk Box
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 11:34:50 am »
What if you want to RP a proper war?

Then RP it? :P

Well you could fight anyone you wish, but you would only move up in ranks the harder the enimies you fight (so you cant just own noobs all the time then become #1)

Also, you could have a guild and player ranking system, for guild wars.

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2007, 11:44:39 am »

What if you want to RP a proper war?
Got an Idea:

After the proper causes for a war happened(Not  "I wanna pwn u cause I'm leet")

Invite the leader of the other guild to a multiplayer game in a medieval RTS  :P

Whoever wins becomes victorious on the RP, then just be a good writer and describe the battles that happened during it.

Isra

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2007, 12:24:13 pm »
I`ve said this before in some thread : I am all for open PvP and open war . Both sides agreeing on a conflict is ridiculous , agreed , but i allso see the other side of the problem , people just runing around swinging there silverweaves slaughtering everyone in sight . The solution to the entire PvP issue in my opinion is SERIOUS consequences of death . No ammount of "accept/decline`s" or GM policing will fix all the stupid PvP going around for absolutely NO reason . Finding a way to make death a serious issue (even to the point of losing your character) would be the only way to go...in my humble opinion
In any case killing inside or nearby towns should make the guards react imediatly . The wildlands are another story though . Yes there may be l33ts roaming the roads and the hills, but then again if they are proven to be dangerous criminals they should think twice before approaching any town`s gates or risk beeing killed on sight . Perhaps Harnquist will not deal with someone who is suspected of beeing a criminal... But again , the key is how serious death is . If it`s just respawning and a little time spent to get back out there , all the above things will be useless . First thing to do in my opinion would be losing your inventory on death...now i`d love to see how many l33t pwn3rz would risk loosing there ub3r-m3g4-l33t-swords-of-pwning just to get another duel point.I say free PvP and open wars but with consequences! If i could have it my way the "challange" button would go away , so try killing that harmless-looking dwarf if you feel like it but deal with it if you fail .
 Now about PvP , does anyone remember that feature of Gothic 2 where when fighting quest-related NPC`s or stuff you would knock them down , then had the choiche of delivering the killing blow or leting them live? Would that work in PS? In some form anyway , I mean when someone is allmoast dead he falls down (now about that , it would be great to see hitpoints affecting stats/skills , as in someone who is at 20% hp should not be able to fight/run like someone who is at 100%) , combat is over , the winer can either kill the loser or walk away . I guess the loser would be compleatly incapacitated , and either recover after a while or die eventualy if noone shows up to heal him

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2007, 12:56:40 pm »
/die is the only way anyone dies in a pure RolePlay war...anything else would mean resorting to OOC game mechanics %}

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2007, 01:11:17 pm »
/die is the only way anyone dies in a pure RolePlay war...anything else would mean resorting to OOC game mechanics %}

/roll 1 10

* rolled a 10 sided die for a 2
* lordraleigh is strucked down by a boulder launched from a trebuchet inside the enemy fortress as the siege is happening, and the other fighters near him also are hitted and die together.

/die (And hope other characters near you will accept it)

Little challenging to make it realistic and without cheating or godmodding, isn't it?

dying_inside

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2007, 03:28:17 pm »
As i see it  Guild wars shoul;d be restricted to anywhere outside of main cities and settlements such as Hydlaa and Odjevada.  if a guild starts a war on the streets its only right thata the guards step in with some really heavy handed aggression and break some heads. Small village and such would be less easy to stop a war erupting as they dont have the same man power, neverthe lkess they would have  the odd  guard and soldier to stop  fights, but not as many as a main city and certainly not as well trained and powerful.

Killing guards as a result  will obviously get you outlawed from the city, and you'd be attacked on sight for enetring the city.

I have more idea's following the killing of guards but these go beyond guild wars, so I shall save them.

Narure

  • Guest
Re: Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2007, 04:04:47 pm »
In real life wars have to be agreed to legaly. So why not have a war council that decides if it is a legal war, if it is legal then it is solely between the two factions and is in decided places only. If it is illegal the war goes a head but attacking faction is open to attack from anyone and the war can take place anywhere any time.