Guild wars, why the system is fundamentally flawed in a nutshell

[Garon]

back on topic...

how about protection for newguilds for a length of time? the it wouldnt be that much of a problem

Which doesn't solve the problem for guilds which it would be hard to see them fighting with others (merchant guilds:  I mean, I can see a merchant getting ambushed here or there, but a full out, bloody war isn't very realistic), or guilds that prefer quality over quantity, especially as far as roleplaying goes.  Such a rule would only benefit guilds that recruit irresponsibly and don't have any sort of "Oh, is he a good member for the guild" catching, or any sort of "Can he rp?" questioning about the person joining.  Such guilds are likely to be, to some degree, the guilds that will go manically postal and kill everybody.

[danveld]

Whats the problem anyway? If you are some bloodthirsty guild of murderous maniacs (in that case World of Warcraft PvP server suits you better), you would be expelled from all civilised areas, and there would be rewards written on your heads. You would end up being constantly hunt down, living at the Ruins (poor Nyshyn not to mention ulbernauts for company like that). The more you would kill the bigger masses would be after you. You would end up dead sooner or later. Thats the reality. (really dead, not returning from DR to bother us all over ) No one is interested in group of simpletons.

If you have IC reasons for war, I guess the oposite guild will accept it anyway. Until there will be more active role of Octars and city guards and until there will be bounties for outlaws (doesnt really mean the guild with the same name) heads, implementing simple declare war system is out of question.

Else I can just support what Sangwa wrote before.

[emeraldfool]

^^^ My point exactly ^^^

[Ishtar2]

Well, what does the term "war" imply?  No large group fights just anywhere, they fight on a battlefield.  Battlefields are OUTSIDE cities, ususally far away.  If a little group is in a war with a large guild, then it'll stay inside a city.  Also, remember that the Cold War tought us that fighting is not just physical.  A small guild might be able to convince people not to trade with members of a larger guild.  Or maybe it'll sell things for lower prices than the larger guild.  As the boycott of the large guild continues, guild members leave.  Eventually:

A) the once-large guild  is small enough to take on
-or-
B)it'll surrender

Either way, no fighting.  Also, new things could be employed, like bribing guards to attack members of a guild, or poisoning a guild's stalls.  Who knows

[Valorius Rageway]

I think the wars would be automatically modded by other players. if a guild gets too strong (this is with autoaccept on), wouldnt the other guilds just gang up on them? even the strongest guild can get weighed down if it gets attacked by like 50 other guilds.

Not if each guild is picked off individually before they even start up. Think about it - you either join the bully guild, or you get owned. What would you choose? To the fresh-faced new player, they're going to want protection for their first steps in Yliakum. The only way the cycle would be broken is if enough oldbies banded together to put a stop to it...

Well im not 100% sure but i read somewhere a list of things that made a war legal. Either way the idea still stands.

I think you're thinking of the Geneva Convention, which nobody really pays attention to anyway...

And the War Council is just the same as the 'guards' idea, really.

Such large alliances that could face virtually any evildoing guild already exist.

Also, secret guilds are the wildcard. I have near 60 members currently, many hardcore duel trained players among them. Yet because we are secret, no one knows who or where. Attacking us effectively would be virtually impossible. Defending against us even harder. Defending against an alliance of secret guilds like The Order of Daggers has forged, well......

It would be a very rude surprise ineed.

[lordraleigh]

Most of secret guilds would prefer to avoid war in most cases, or rely on allies for it when necessary.

If you can declare war on a secret guild, is it really that secret?

*Added random comment

Alex Jones on a certain way "declared war" on the supposedly existing Illuminati, of course if he "disappears", his claims will certainly become more believed.

http://www.infowars.com/
 

[Under the moon]

The system is fundamentally flawed, but not for the reasons you are stating. Guilds did not have wars. Guilds controlled commerce. I blame WoW, GW, and all the other MMOs out there for the miseducation of the masses, and blame PS for perpetuating this myth and fallacy, despite the supposedly more intelligent community. The only guilds that truly fought for a living were combat guilds, and they did so for the entertainment of others.

[lordraleigh]

The system is fundamentally flawed, but not for the reasons you are stating. Guilds did not have wars. Guilds controlled commerce. I blame WoW, GW, and all the other MMOs out there for the miseducation of the masses, and blame PS for perpetuating this myth and fallacy, despite the supposedly more intelligent community. The only guilds that truly fought for a living were combat guilds, and they did so for the entertainment of others.

Who make "wars": Governments, Organized Crime... (All those types of organizations would be based on "guilds", realistically they would be made of several of the so called "guilds" )

The word "guild" is pretty generic and away from its RL meaning on most MMORPGs.

[Valorius Rageway]

Most of secret guilds would prefer to avoid war in most cases, or rely on allies for it when necessary.

If you can declare war on a secret guild, is it really that secret?

*Added random comment

Alex Jones on a certain way "declared war" on the supposedly existing Illuminati, of course if he "disappears", his claims will certainly become more believed.

http://www.infowars.com/
 

Under current system all you have to do is target guild leader and if he accepts, a war is on, even if you dont know a single other member of the guild.

And to say there are no guild wars is the same as saying there are no gang or mob wars. Silliness. Not only armies fight wars. What about an insurgency? Hmmm?

LOL

[Vengeance]

Guild wars are nothing more than group on group duels.  Normal PvP approval rules apply.  Sorry if you don't like it.

Moving to PvP wish list thread.

- Vengeance

[Valorius Rageway]

Guild wars are nothing more than group on group duels.  Normal PvP approval rules apply.  Sorry if you don't like it.

Moving to PvP wish list thread.

- Vengeance

Normal PvP rules dont apply at all actually. Once war is accepted....there are no rules in a guild war. You can attack any member of guild anywhere, anytime, without cause or reason.

And no, i dont like the decline option.

[lordraleigh]

I doubt there is a "Geneva Convention" in Yliakum, specially on the regions bordering the Stone Labyrinths.

[Parallo]

Normal PvP rules dont apply at all actually. Once war is accepted....there are no rules in a guild war. You can attack any member of guild anywhere, anytime, without cause or reason.

And no, i dont like the decline option.

You said once it is accepted so yes, normal rules apply. It is like a group on group duel.

[Quitarias]

Personaly this is far from being made an open pvp game
First of all the best and most realistic solution would be to have guards attack if a guild war get out of control (like fighting in the plaza)
or maybe if a guild war is more than 50 vs 50 than the Ochtarch of that level dispenses him military forces to "remove" the trouble makers. Also the part about secret guilds fighting is quite imposibleif you are secret how do you fight wars it would be more like a large number of attacks against a group of people.
Thirdly i would like to resumea bit on the fort idea. The forts should cost a whole mountain of money to build (500.000 at the least i think) and it wouldnt be permanent unless you are making a castle (which would cost another everest of gold) but also the castle would be slow to build castle have the rock cut for them in 20 years while forts are usualy made for a better defense line and a standard fort is usualy made of wood.
I hope i made sense (i tend to type giberish from time to time  )

[lordraleigh]

Personaly this is far from being made an open pvp game
First of all the best and most realistic solution would be to have guards attack if a guild war get out of control (like fighting in the plaza)
or maybe if a guild war is more than 50 vs 50 than the Ochtarch of that level dispenses him military forces to "remove" the trouble makers. Also the part about secret guilds fighting is quite imposibleif you are secret how do you fight wars it would be more like a large number of attacks against a group of people.
Thirdly i would like to resumea bit on the fort idea. The forts should cost a whole mountain of money to build (500.000 at the least i think) and it wouldnt be permanent unless you are making a castle (which would cost another everest of gold) but also the castle would be slow to build castle have the rock cut for them in 20 years while forts are usualy made for a better defense line and a standard fort is usualy made of wood.
I hope i made sense (i tend to type giberish from time to time  )

Hiring masons to build fortresses/castles should be a long, expensive but rewarding option in the distant future.

Also about secret "guilds". Any truly secret organization wouldn't engage directly into wars, but instead use some puppets or allies for their goals. Or sometimes even provoke wars between third parties.

Keyword: Conspiracy. (Specially for a secret "guild" that deals with politics)

Also when "wars" happen directly between secret groups the common result will be a lot of "accidents" and of people dying of "heart strokes"