Feelings and responsibility

[LigH]

Dear US Americans ... would you really vote for a candidate only because his name somehow makes you feel that it might be related to "success"? 

Beware! This is not even his ancestors' real name! 

#MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain!

20 minutes of entertainment with political satire by John Oliver. 

Remember, you are responsible for the future of the whole planet during the US elections; your mistakes make billions suffer. 

[Rigwyn]

Obama was a huge mistake in many ways, so to was bush jr. We need a lot of things fixed and someone who is capable of focusing on the most needed changes.

A lot of people don't like Trump - presumably because of his personality and political incorrectness. If you listen to him, a lot of what he says makes sense, and some of it is just hot air....

Let's see...

Ben Carson has a hard time separating fiction from reality. That eliminates him.
Rubio is too green.
Cruz is full of shit and manipulative in bad ways - he's a big no for me.
Kashic is not viable.
Hillary is on a power trip and will say anything get elected. Long histroy of lying and corruption.
Bernie Sanders want's the US to become a comunist country. This is america, not russia. He should run for president over there.

Issues that matter most right now:

The us economy is out of balance. If it's not fixed, we all sink. We need someone who understands money and knows how to turn a bad situation around.

We have too much strife between dems and republicans and are in serious need of someone who can negotiate. ( Thanks a lot, obama :/ )

Lastly, there is a giant sucking sound in the us that has been getting stronger and stronger for the last 30 years or so. If all the oursourcing of jobs, hiring of illegal aliens and fleeing of businesses to other countries does not stop, there will be nothing left of the us.

Alll the other issues like gay marriage, pot use, *free college*, *free medical* and religious issues need to take the back seat until we make some headway on these issues and on the budget deficit.

[Pierrette]

Rigwyn, you are not allowed to comment until you've watched John Oliver's exposé of Drumpf.  The reasons why people don't like him are laid out. 

I'll give you a hint, it's nothing to do with his personality and his non-PCness (in fact those are reasons he gives to like him), everything to do with his lies and how he ran his businesses.

If all the oursourcing of jobs, hiring of illegal aliens and fleeing of businesses to other countries does not stop, there will be nothing left of the us.

You think Drumpf will stop the outsourcing?      Check where his clothing line is made.  If he does levy taxes on other outsourcing companies he would have to set up the laws so that his company was exempt.  Which I suppose he could do (put a "ties and suits" loophole in) but I'm not interested in a president like that.

And I'm off the thread, thanks LigH  .

[Rigwyn]

Actualy, he openly admitted that he does take advantage of outsourcing and buyig foreign because it's cheaper - point blank. I don't know what changes he would make, but at least he's savvy enough to pull it off.

If financial/business competence scares you, then vote for someone who is completely incompetent. Personally, I feel more comfortable with competent folks.

As for john oliver, I'll watch the video later when I have time.

[steuben]

The last %number% of presidents including %current present% have destroyed America. %presidential candidate% of the %party% is the only hope we have for America.

[Volki]

This is utterly retarded. Keep in mind, I'm no Trump supporter, but you progressives are absolute idiots.

Dear US Americans ... would you really vote for a candidate only because his name somehow makes you feel that it might be related to "success"?

If you think this is why people would vote for Trump, you know nothing about American politics. The people are tired of crony capitalism, and whether you lean progressive or conservative pushes you either toward Sanders or Trump. Other candidates have corporations in their pockets. I would seriously consider voting for Trump if he were up against Hillary. I'd rather have a brash, ignorant businessman than a cunning, lying shill.

Beware! This is not even his ancestors' real name!

Once again, a foreigner assuming that he knows all about another country's culture. I've already had an argument with another foreigner over this exact same thing. You have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all, he was born Donald Trump. He is still Donald Trump. He hasn't changed his name. His great-grandfather changed his name, but that doesn't reflect on his great-grandson in any way.

Secondly, as far as I am aware, the name could have been changed on accident. It's very common for names to change upon arriving to a new country, especially a hundred-plus years ago. It could have been a clerical error. Or maybe his great-grandfather was afraid of persecution because he was a German, so he changed his name to something more English-sounding.

Thirdly, (prepare for the rektoning),

THIS IS COMPLETELY NORMAL FOR AMERICA.

Almost every American has had their ancestral name changed. I'll give you an example, to show you how ridiculously common it is.

My last name is English. But guess what? It was once Norman. Oh no, I must be ashamed of my ancestors' conquests!

My great-grandfather's last name sounds Asian, but it was, in fact, an Anglicized version of a Scottish clan. Oh no! He must have been ashamed of his kilt!

TL;DR

John Oliver thinks it's shocking that Trump used to be Drumpf because his ancestors had the privilege of not having to leave their home country and changing their names to fit in. Learn some American history and quit shaming people for common occurrences.

#MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain will accomplish nothing but bolstering Trump's support. He's already the lowest of the low. He's the underdog. Making fun of his name is only going to help him. Honestly, Oliver's exposé was excellent on its own, but the playground-tier bullying tactics ruined it. Now he's made it easier for conservatives to dismiss the exposé.

your mistakes make billions suffer.

Honestly, I don't care. I have no guilt over what happens to other countries. I have no control over it. Our elections are a joke. Now, why don't you maybe go tell Merkel to quit letting migrants rape her women?

[LigH]

Bernie Sanders want's the US to become a comunist country.

Most people don't even know what "communism" is, as much as it is abused as a more or less universal threatening term. More or less everything limiting the profits of companies is blamed to be communism, no matter how much it really belongs to communism as defined. Bernie Sanders calls himself a "socialist", not a "communist"; there is a huge gap between both meanings.

Only "fat cats" can be afraid of being social. Free economy without social responsibility will destroy itself by depleting its most important resource: The solvent customers. The more asocial the economy gets, the fewer customers can afford a purchase. Ludwig Erhard understood. We should not try to worship Ferengi culture...

[gonger]

Rubio is too green.

How can someone be "too green" in a world that gets destroyed a bit more every day?

[Rigwyn]

Most people don't even know what "communism" is, as much as it is abused as a more or less universal threatening term. More or less everything limiting the profits of companies is blamed to be communism, no matter how much it really belongs to communism as defined. Bernie Sanders calls himself a "socialist", not a "communist"; there is a huge gap between both meanings.

Only "fat cats" can be afraid of being social. Free economy without social responsibility will destroy itself by depleting its most important resource: The solvent customers. The more asocial the economy gets, the fewer customers can afford a purchase. Ludwig Erhard understood. We should not try to worship Ferengi culture...

I'm not sure I agree with your definition of social in this context. The idea behind socialism is that everyone forks over a larger portion of their income to the state, and the state takes care of them like a rich uncle - communism being more extreme as in you don't get paid, you just get taken care of like a small child.

There's communism on paper, and then there's communism in practice. One of the things that many of us Americans cherish is having the opportunity and freedom to work hard and benefit proportionally. That incentive to do better and live better has driven many folks to accomplishing great achievements whether if be financial, educational or personal satisfaction. People have fled other countries to come over here for that opportunity.

The direction that Sanders wants to go in is away from democracy and towards socialism (yes, I realize there's a spectrum) - which is going to rub many hard working and ambitious folks the wrong way. People who are on Welfare ( ie. poor, unemployed people who are too lazy to work and as a result, receive a check from the government out of pity ) will love this idea. It's like Welfare on steroids.  Similarly, those with no hope of getting anywhere or who are overwhelmed might see it similarly. There are also people who are on welfare for legitimate reasons, so I don't intend to lump them in the the lazy folks who abuse this system because they can.

Bernie is advocating that he will raise taxes significantly so that everyone can get free college and medical care. I have heard upwards of %10 for lower and middle class, and much more for the "one percent". I don't know what actual number would be realistic, and I don't think he really knows either. There are a few problems with this:

1. When you take the carrot away from the donkey, it stops following it. By taking away the ability to profit, you kill the incentive and people get lazy and sloppy. One of the positive things about competition is that is give reasons for companies ( and those individuals who work for companies) to thrive to produce better deals. ( That could mean a cheaper product, a better product, a more versatile product, or even offering a better way of paying for it )

2. Forcing everyone to pay into this college and medical plan means that many people will be forced to pay for something that they don't want or need. That right there is problematic.

3. As a president, he can't just change the country and force these plans on everyone. He needs to get congress to agree. ( Or else use executive orders and risk getting impeached and thrown out on his ass ). Half of congress is Republican ( which is the polar opposite ), the other half are Democrats ( which are somewhere between socialist and Republican ). So he would not get any support. Best case, we might have another four years of the kind of horse shit that Obama caused with his executive orders and stalemate with congress.

How can someone be "too green" in a world that gets destroyed a bit more every day?

Green, meaning new. He's too junior for the job.

[gonger]

This is utterly retarded. Keep in mind, I'm no Trump supporter, but you progressives are absolute idiots.

Progressive is bad, but aggressive is good? Watch your language, please.
We need to progress to get out of the current global situation. We might have different definitions of progress, though.

Now, why don't you maybe go tell Merkel to quit letting migrants rape her women?

Please allow me to correct your assumption: All crime statistics show that speaking in percentages, the migrants / refugees commit considerably less crimes then Germans, and most of their crimes are minor, like shoplifting. Yes, there have been some rapes by migrants / refugees, but far less then by long-time residents of Germany, be they foreigners or Germans.

[gonger]

How can someone be "too green" in a world that gets destroyed a bit more every day?

Green, meaning new. He's too junior for the job.

Classical case of misunderstanding, thanks for your explanation. Especially in the context of politics, most Germans will think "green = ecological".
But otherwise we also speak of "greenhorns" (Grünschnabel) being "green behind their ears".
Edit: Quote from Rygwyn's post corrected.

[Rigwyn]

I think volki was refering to a news story about syrian refugees raping or molesting german women. I honestly don't know if this was an isolated incident or if if happened more than once, but I do remember this being reported along with some suggestion that perhaps such behaviour was culturally accepted wherever they came from ( syria, iraq or wherever ). Not all countries view women as equals.

[Volki]

Progressive is bad, but aggressive is good? Watch your language, please.
We need to progress to get out of the current global situation. We might have different definitions of progress, though.

Do you know what a progressive is?

adjective
1.
favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters:

Progressives are the aggressive ones.

Please allow me to correct your assumption: All crime statistics show that speaking in percentages, the migrants / refugees commit considerably less crimes then Germans, and most of their crimes are minor, like shoplifting. Yes, there have been some rapes by migrants / refugees, but far less then by long-time residents of Germany, be they foreigners or Germans.

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard and seen. Care to back any of that up? As far as I'm aware, statistics haven't had time to be published.

I think volki was refering to a news story about syrian refugees raping or molesting german women. I honestly don't know if this was an isolated incident or if if happened more than once, but I do remember this being reported along with some suggestion that perhaps such behaviour was culturally accepted wherever they came from ( syria, iraq or wherever ). Not all countries view women as equals.

It is called taharrush. It is basically a mob of men which harass and assault everyone around them because they greatly outnumber authorities. You'll notice that the Wikipedia page for it has been renamed to "Mass sexual assault in Egypt" despite this having occurred in far more places than Egypt.

Do you remember the reporter who was sexually assaulted by a mob in Tahrir Square? That was taharrush.

And yes, they don't view women as equals, but it's more about the foreign aspect. They wouldn't be so barbaric around their own women. Foreign women, though? Fair game.

Also, do I need to mention what happened to Rotherham?

[Ralas]

This thread makes me so angry, sad, and ashamed to be an American that I don't even know where to begin.

First off, we don't hate Trump because he "speaks his mind."  We hate him because he is a bumbling, megalomaniac xenophobe who has absolutely no idea how to run a country.  He thinks all Mexicans are criminals and rapists and all Muslims are terrorists.  His most concrete plans involve building walls, doing "something" about Muslims, and replacing Obamacare with "IDK something better."

Trump can't even maintain diplomatic relations with Fox News, who is universally recognized to have a huge bias toward his own side of the aisle.  Can you imagine him at peace talks between Palestine and Israel?  Things would blow up.  More than they already do, I mean.

As far as Socialism goes...that whole thing about the safety net (Welfare, Unemployment, etc) is complete hogwash.  It's often spouted by conservatives in favor of "trickle-down economics," which has been failing to work since at least the Nixon era.  People aren't fundamentally lazy--sure maybe a few of them are.  But you'll notice the evidence for this is always anecdotal.  When arguing politics with a conservative friend after a few too many G&T's he will inevitably mention his uncle's friend's cousin's wife's roommate who lives in a shack and doesn't work so that he can get welfare.  I'm not saying that these people don't exist, but they are a statistically negligent minority.  Most people who use the safety net want desperately to get off of it.  Think also about how a wider safety net would likely increase innovation.  For instance, I would love to quit my current job and start a business, but I'm afraid of what will happen if my business fails and I can't pay my rent.

[LigH]

Because I am a German, thus a Grammar Nazi, I will try to find an analogy between grammar and economic systems:

If communism is the superlative and socialism the comparative form, then what would be the positive form? IMHO, the "social market economy", as proposed by Ludwig Erhard. Capitalism is still the base, but the state is supported by economical profiteers due to their "social responsibility".

Practice has proven that it doesn't work voluntarily. Greed is more popular. Tax evasion is considered trivial offense.

By the way, practice has also proven that communism doesn't exist as declared, either. There is always a dictator abusing the system.