[Maxximus]

Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse

First of all not everyone at PS can play.  Remember the state PS is in at the moment permits only a select few computers to allow it to run.

Second of all the game itself has nothing to do with this discussion.  The discussion has to do with the forums, therefore the people that are around the forums the most are the most qualified people to complain and suggest ideas.

Aendar, your first statement above is baffling to those of us who do play. I see lots of people playing. Maybe you\'re not one of them. Ask around, or PM Andrew the Programmer to ask how many unique machines have played PS in the last 90 days. Then, come back here and tell us again that only a few people can play, unless, of course, you discover you\'re wrong. Or, save some time and take my word for it: more than a few people can and do play PS. I don\'t know what kind of computers they use. Don\'t care, either.

Statement #2 is what got me laughing. This discussion has everything to do with those of us who run guilds and actually play the game. Do I really need to explain to you why people who only read this forum need to get a life and stop bothering those of us who have practical concerns like recruitment, education of new players, and the efficient means to announce guild-related news to the widest possible player audience? All of the forum creatures in here complaining are like dead light bulbs that should be replaced as soon as possible. If you\'re gonna create heat you better throw some light at the same time, otherwise, take a hike.

/me bangs his head on the table in disbelief.

[Draklar]

ok, I really wonder what does ingame have to do with spamming on boards...
And yes, Aendar is completely right.
Ones that spend here most time know a little better I think.
And most of all, they are people that were here before you and they see how it\'s changing

[AendarCallenlasse]

First of all there are over 7000 members on the PS forums, sure at least a three fourths of those 7000 aren\'t active but there are still 7000 members.  Less than a hundred players are active in the game.  You do the math.

Second of all.  I, too, run aguild and I know the importance of guild announcements and recruiting.

Do I really need to explain to you why people who only read this forum need to get a life and stop bothering those of us who have practical concerns

Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community.  I\'ve been here for two years and I only been active in the game for the past month.  Would you say I\'m useless (Yes I know you would).  No.  The fact that I have stayed here on only the forums shows that I care about the forums and what goes on here.[/COLOR]

[Maxximus]

Draklar, there would not be any spam in these forum is each guild had control over its own forum, including the right to warn and ban posters who they deem to be spammers. Does it make sense?

There also wouldn\'t be any question about what is and what is not spam if the guilds had control over their own forums; they would decide for themselves.

If the guild had control there would be no need for arriving at a happy medium that satisfied everyone, no legalistic arguments about how closely or how loosely rules were being interpreted, none of the crap.

This is essentially what I\'ve been trying to say in the last several posts.

The details of how to censor these forums appropriately so that they conform to a definition of content given by the Board Admins is the wrong discussion. There is also something very wrong with the people here who claim that the forums don\'t work, especially when it\'s people who don\'t play the game, and who don\'t recruit and train new members in the game. This whole board exists for players, not forum posters who only expect to be playing Planeshift at some future date, if ever. These Guild forums and some others are practical tools that guild leaders use for real purposes, for practical tasks. The only problem the Guild forums have is non-players complaining that they don\'t want to read \"spam\". Remove those few folks from the the equation and you won\'t have a problem. I think they have a right to be here and post messages, but when they along with a few real players can screw up a great organizing tool for the rest of us, it\'s makes no sense.

Last thing: It doesn\'t matter how long a person has be a registered member of this board, or how many posts he or she has made. All that matters is what they say here and now.

I\'m surprised that you would agree with Aenadar, Draklar.  If this forum loses it\'s liveliness and fun so that admins won\'t have to deal with constant whining from a small number of people, you\'ve got to ask yourself a question: cui bono?

[Draklar]

well I\'d rather agree with someone that doesn\'t want spam, instead of someone that says that the real problem are people that don\'t want spam.
and by the way: I am PS player since... 9 months... and I as well don\'t want people spamming here
and I asked few people ingame, they said they don\'t even want to come here because of forums\' horrible state.

[elscouta]

Maxximus:
I think this will solve nothing. If there\'s still a common guild forum, this one will be spammed as before. Subforums will be a pain to set up, will be either spammed if moderators don\'t care or ignored because nobody spost inside. People will continue to post in the common forum to gain more visibility.

If you want to discuss serious thing that concern only one guild, use their own forum. Otherwise, post in common forum so everyone can see it. I don\'t browse all forums of all guilds. I don\'t want to browse an hundred subforums.

AendarCallenlase: Do you *really* care that much about spam? At the topic (and the poster) you can often see whether it\'ll be spam or interesting discussion. Don\'t read spam posts if you don\'t want to.

Draklar: forums horrible state? You mean that a majority of players in game don\'t want to come here because there\'s a few spam posts? Or is it just a small minority? I know that we must try to make all the people happy but it\'s an utopia. For example, i don\'t like your font color, others like, will i create a whine post just to start a discussions about colors in posts? No, because other like i don\'t *really* care about it.

Acraig/Vengeance: please don\'t moderate the forums more heavily. I like the current state.

[Maxximus]

Aendar,

7000 people registered in this forum? Wow. Big number. Did you know that there are 11.5 Million people living in Cuba? Can you guess what the two numbers have in common? Answer: both are not relevent to what we\'re debating.

Who told you there were less than 100 unique players on the PS server in the past 90 days? Are you sure he said less than 100?

You said: Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community.

No, Aendar, the Moon is not made out of cheese; we\'ve been there in a spaceship and have proof.

Come on, dude, read what you just said! What about the folks who have been running the map collecting crystals, testing the game build, reporting bugs? There is no game and community without us. But without you and the others who only post high theory in a forum, development would continue just fine. PS doesn\'t need you and never did. The day PS is complete and available for download people will come in droves...and they won\'t even know you were around in the begining posting forum messages. They won\'t care even if we show them an archive of all the many gems there are to read. They will be too busy playing the game to care.

Welcome to Planeshift, Aendar. I\'m glad you finally decided to lend a hand testing.

[Maxximus]

Originally posted by Draklar
well I\'d rather agree with someone that doesn\'t want spam, instead of someone that says that the real problem are people that don\'t want spam.
and by the way: I am PS player since... 9 months... and I as well don\'t want people spamming here
and I asked few people ingame, they said they don\'t even want to come here because of forums\' horrible state.

I said so much more than that, Draklar, so much more, and you know it. You have chosen to ignore the rest and amplify a single detail instead dealing with the broad idea I presented. Come on, man, get serious and reply to what I\'ve said here, the whole thing, not some small part taken out of context.

[elscouta]

Axsyrus? Hmm... given it looks like a reply to my post and Axsyrus hasn\'t post here since a good amount of time:

It\'s ok, i understand what you meant. The problem is that you\'ll find people everywhere who like clean boards, i agree. But others like me enjoy active forums where you can read other things that boring serious things everywhere. You won\'t be able to make everywhere happy.

And seriously, the state of the Guild forum is a lot better now than a few month ago. Cabal has stop his forum-wide posting... Even whemyfield seems to have stop posting... About whemy, i would show what i call smart and funny moderating: the change of his forum title (remember that spammer like having a good post count and forum title) was both funny and non-censorship-like and succeed in stop his spamming.

You want forum even more clean? Forums where you can talk for hours about a small boring point of settings in a two-sided argument with a bunch of true but useless points? I don\'t.

[AendarCallenlasse]

Aendar,

7000 people registered in this forum? Wow. Big number. Did you know that there are 11.5 Million people living in Cuba? Can you guess what the two numbers have in common? Answer: both are not relevent to what we\'re debating.

Who told you there were less than 100 unique players on the PS server in the past 90 days? Are you sure he said less than 100?

You said: Those people who only read the forums are those who are truly dedicated to PS and the community.

No, Aendar, the Moon is not made out of cheese; we\'ve been there in a spaceship and have proof.

Come on, dude, read what you just said! What about the folks who have been running the map collecting crystals, testing the game build, reporting bugs? There is no game and community without us. But without you and the others who only post high theory in a forum, development would continue just fine. PS doesn\'t need you and never did. The day PS is complete and available for download people will come in droves...and they won\'t even know you were around in the begining posting forum messages. They won\'t care even if we show them an archive of all the many gems there are to read. They will be too busy playing the game to care.

Welcome to Planeshift, Aendar. I\'m glad you finally decided to lend a hand testing.

You have yet to substaniate anything you have said with facts.  You\'re answer to every point of my post is some ridiculous dribble...[/COLOR]

[elscouta]

Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
You have yet to substaniate anything you have said with facts.  You\'re answer to every point of my post is some ridiculous dribble...

Even if i don\'t agree completely with Maxximus here, his post is not a ridiculous dribble. This adds nothing to the argument to simply reject the other point.

My opinion is that Players aren\'t better than Forum poster and Forum posters aren\'t better than Players. Players help devs to find bugs. Forum posters give ideas (when they don\'t spam and don\'t whine about spam). Both motivate the devs because they create an active community (motivation is really important in an open source project - even more IMHO than help for testing).

Maxximus: You said Forum posters will be ignored when a full game is released. Is that a reason to say they were useless?

First of all there are over 7000 members on the PS forums, sure at least a three fourths of those 7000 aren\'t active but there are still 7000 members. Less than a hundred players are active in the game. You do the math.

Less than a third of the 7000 are actives. I\'d say 1/10 in the best case. And if you check here: Player list, you\'ll see that more than 100 are online per day. (646 when i wrote this post). So we came with more players online than on forums.

But whatever, this is not my main point: I can do the math. And that prove what?
That your opinion is more worth than Maxximus one? I think i don\'t even need to reply to this
That forums are more important than the game? Let\'s change Planeshift goals then: \'This game aims to provide clean and sane board for everyone, freely. Some illustrations on these forums are created through Planeshift subprojects called Molecular Blue and Crystal Blue\'

[AendarCallenlasse]

That forums are more important than the game? Let\'s change Planeshift goals then: \'This game aims to provide clean and sane board for everyone, freely. Some illustrations on these forums are created through Planeshift subprojects called Molecular Blue and Crystal Blue\'

Again people are bringing the game into this discussion.  We are talking about the forums and what can be done to improve them.  Forget the game for now.  The point of this discussion is controlling the amount of spam on the PS boards....not which is more important, the forums or the game.[/COLOR]

[Deddarus]

this thread appears to have turned into \'who has the most right to post here\'

maybe i should summarise

*Some ppl want sepperate forums for each guild - A member of staff has said he doesnt want to do that.. not likely to happen so prolly best to not go on about it

*Lots of people keep saying that the mods should act on complaints... they say they cant unless they have a definition of spam to work with (a reasonable request i think).... maybe we should do what they originally asked and agree on a definition of spam so they can work fairly and effectively

*This post has rapidly turned into a perfect example of spam.... arguing over who cares most about PS or who has more right to post is OFF-TOPIC.

[AendarCallenlasse]

Exactly.  I think though that the discussion is over unless anyone has any new relevant information to post.

[Maxximus]

Originally posted by Deddarus
this thread appears to have turned into \'who has the most right to post here\'

maybe i should summarise

*Some ppl want sepperate forums for each guild - A member of staff has said he doesnt want to do that.. not likely to happen so prolly best to not go on about it

*Lots of people keep saying that the mods should act on complaints... they say they cant unless they have a definition of spam to work with (a reasonable request i think).... maybe we should do what they originally asked and agree on a definition of spam so they can work fairly and effectively

*This post has rapidly turned into a perfect example of spam.... arguing over who cares most about PS or who has more right to post is OFF-TOPIC.

Deddarus: No, this has turned into a discussion, not spam. We are now examining the logic and validity of what has been stated by a few people. This is how people debate. If you find this disturbing I suggest that you stop reading and come back later when the discussion may be simpler to understand. And, your \"summary\" of what is happing here is a rather crude and slavish promotion of your own proposals, not a summary at all.