Grinding and Roleplay

[louscroo]

Here's a bit of a rambling as I try to pull my thoughts together.

As I was reading Esorono's complaint about people spending all day at the furnace and not roleplaying, I started to think about the platinum mines, the time people would spend there, and the casual, freeform roleplay that was characteristic of the place. I also considered the ends to which people would be mining, such as funding their character's skill development or scraping up funds for their roleplays that involved money.

But one thing that came to mind and that I'm still pondering at the moment is the relationship between the difficulty of producing tria and the quantity, quality and type of roleplay that takes place in game. It seems to me that as money gets more difficult to make, the community of players can start to experience a greater contrast between grinding and roleplay. What I mean by this is that grinding has become so difficult to the point where it seems everyone who doesn't have their desired stat/skill levels or items is either:

a) Grinding their asses off,
or
b) Roleplaying with their little storytelling puppet characters.

What's the matter with this? Nothing really, except for the fact that its not really reflective of the what I thought (I could very well be wrong) was the goal of PlaneShift staff to begin with: To create and maintain a realistic and immersive roleplay experience through the medium of an MMO. While roleplay and playing the actual game are both present (and I have no doubt that both of them will remain), they seem to be gradually drifting apart from each other, in my eyes. I think what makes PlaneShift appealing as a game is that it is an MMORPG that actually encourages and maintains an IC environment. As players come, from what I've been seeing, they decide to either level and loot like mad or become roleplayers who don't really play for the game as much as for the community roleplay. At that point, what separates the PlaneShift experience from any other MMO or any roleplay chatroom?

I just think that the PlaneShift staff should be breeding players that use the game mechanics and roleplay, not just one or the other. And I think that as the game mechanics require more grind, we'll be seeing less of this type of player. At any rate, what's your opinion on the matter (if there even is one)?

[bloodedIrishman]

I believe in using game mechanics to support the role play of my character, and the world around me. I have no qualms with your point, and I agree as well. Your first thread that was serious, nice  .

[Geoni]

Yeah I agree with both point a and b. Didn't expect b to come out of you but it did. I think that skills should be easier to attain, but then when it was easy, people were abusing it, and not using it. If people want to grind they should only do it if it makes sense for their character to.

[Mogweh]

Maybe the devs could cap the total levels a char can add to something more sensible. Say 500? Freeze any chars stats with anything over that.

[Maisent]

Ok, you just sounded really nerdy. And i don't really get what you mean. Maybe just because im dumb.

[bloodedIrishman]

Probably 

[Draklar]

Yeah I agree with both point a and b. Didn't expect b to come out of you but it did. I think that skills should be easier to attain, but then when it was easy, people were abusing it, and not using it. If people want to grind they should only do it if it makes sense for their character to.

I think the problem is how long it takes for a character to reach yet another level past some point. This is a misconception of how the learning process works in reality, I believe.
In reality learning advanced techniques takes about as much time as it took you to learn basic techniques in the past. If it is any different, it is either because your teacher provides you with insufficient tools/knowledge for learning new abilities or you just lost your determination for further learning. But in perfect conditions learning is not supposed to slow down, no matter what "level" you reach. If it does suddenly slow down, it is probably because your teacher is unable to provide you with any further "levels".

[Geoni]

That could be a good IC explanation for the problems with the mechanics of the game. I think that a character is done learning when the teacher cannot provide anymore "levels". This is when the character uses those skills to get a job using them, or begin teaching other people the ways of that skill. OOCly it is just the fact that you have spent a REALLY long time in front of a computer clicking about, though I suppose it can be explained ICly if this person does use those skills to RP. It just comes down to this at that point: Either I quit the game because I have done all the leveling up for my character, or perhaps I can roleplay, and get him/her/kra a job.

[Earowo]

I vote vvallace for president

[Caraick]

Here's a bit of a rambling as I try to pull my thoughts together.

As I was reading Esorono's complaint about people spending all day at the furnace and not roleplaying, I started to think about the platinum mines, the time people would spend there, and the casual, freeform roleplay that was characteristic of the place. I also considered the ends to which people would be mining, such as funding their character's skill development or scraping up funds for their roleplays that involved money.

But one thing that came to mind and that I'm still pondering at the moment is the relationship between the difficulty of producing tria and the quantity, quality and type of roleplay that takes place in game. It seems to me that as money gets more difficult to make, the community of players can start to experience a greater contrast between grinding and roleplay. What I mean by this is that grinding has become so difficult to the point where it seems everyone who doesn't have their desired stat/skill levels or items is either:

a) Grinding their asses off,
or
b) Roleplaying with their little storytelling puppet characters.

What's the matter with this? Nothing really, except for the fact that its not really reflective of the what I thought (I could very well be wrong) was the goal of PlaneShift staff to begin with: To create and maintain a realistic and immersive roleplay experience through the medium of an MMO. While roleplay and playing the actual game are both present (and I have no doubt that both of them will remain), they seem to be gradually drifting apart from each other, in my eyes. I think what makes PlaneShift appealing as a game is that it is an MMORPG that actually encourages and maintains an IC environment. As players come, from what I've been seeing, they decide to either level and loot like mad or become roleplayers who don't really play for the game as much as for the community roleplay. At that point, what separates the PlaneShift experience from any other MMO or any roleplay chatroom?

I just think that the PlaneShift staff should be breeding players that use the game mechanics and roleplay, not just one or the other. And I think that as the game mechanics require more grind, we'll be seeing less of this type of player. At any rate, what's your opinion on the matter (if there even is one)?

I couldn't agree more, especially as of late, with the new the combat system, and vamped-up NPC's.   It used to be difficult, but very possible to take on a dlayo with weapons and win unscathed.  The same for maulbies, ulbies, and the like.   Making some NPC's only confrontalbe by magic really takes away from the mechanics of the game.   Not to mention how long it takes to train things, and especially how expensive everything is now  

Anyway, total agreement from me on this issue, thanks for posting Louscroo

[sashia_mennar]

Handshakes to Caraick and Earowo.

The post is very smart and poses the right question.
Lou for president!

The answer to the question posed is simple and nothing new: implement disadvantages, at last. Every choice must lead to consequences, not just gains. Training one's character in anything, be it skills or stats, is a choice. Atm it only leads to gain and profit; introduce the other side as well. It is realistic, it is classic, it is needed.

Having blind and lame supermages, as well as dumb and unpleasant-looking superwarriors will stop unlimited PLing in the wink of an eye, it will also make people think twice before clicking another 'buy level' button.

[kaerli2]

Handshakes to Caraick and Earowo.

The post is very smart and poses the right question.
Lou for president!

The answer to the question posed is simple and nothing new: implement disadvantages, at last. Every choice must lead to consequences, not just gains. Training one's character in anything, be it skills or stats, is a choice. Atm it only leads to gain and profit; introduce the other side as well. It is realistic, it is classic, it is needed.

Having blind and lame supermages, as well as dumb and unpleasant-looking superwarriors will stop unlimited PLing in the wink of an eye, it will also make people think twice before clicking another 'buy level' button.

The problem with that is that there is no "one-size-fits-all" in this case.  Also, you completly ignore Multiple Intelligences theory here...but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms   (also: high STR does not necessarily imply someone being utterly muscle-bound)

Maybe the stats system needs to be rethought?

[Earowo]

I think the real problem is just that, everybody that plays, wants to RP the strength or skill that they WANT to have. If people would Play their character, as if the character was training, Which is basically combining training and RP, instead of playing a strong character that doesnt exist, even in-game, and mabey didnt cram training as much, becuase nobody wants to train 7 days a week, it might help the delemma a little bit.

[novacadian]

I think the real problem is just that, everybody that plays, wants to RP the strength or skill that they WANT to have. If people would Play their character, as if the character was training, Which is basically combining training and RP, instead of playing a strong character that doesnt exist, even in-game, and mabey didnt cram training as much, becuase nobody wants to train 7 days a week, it might help the delemma a little bit.

Well said Earowo.... except the part about training 7 days a week. 

Some of my most enjoyable rpg table play is with lower level characters. One Game Master of mine suggested that judging by the spells he used that even Gandolf was probably only a 5th level D&D Mage. It is my belief that characters should be played as to how they are truly developed. Of could one could have the exception of the big Boss created for some RP; yet they should have big OOC ([]) announcements in their desc that that is the case and used only with that use in mind and never found in the sewers trying to work them toward the development that the player wished they may be.

- Nova

[verden]

...even Gandolf was probably only a 5th level D&D Mage.

No 5th level D&D mage could have taken on the Balrog and have a chance. Tolkien interpretation fail.