PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Volki on September 07, 2017, 06:57:45 pm
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I've been noticing a trend of players using smiley faces and chatspeak ("lol", "btw", OOC abbreviations, etc.) in main. I've noticed another of guilds forming without roleplay, the players not understanding the difference between IC and OOC or what roleplay even is. Then I see those guilds invite every new player they can catch into their guilds. And because these guilds rarely roleplay, and what roleplay they do have doesn't differentiate between IC and OOC, these new players don't encounter much roleplay at all and more often than not quit playing. And then there are the blatantly OOC guilds that shouldn't exist at all--e.g., Captainsriffcrew (yes, that is the name).
When I was a new player, you could be kicked/banned for posting too many bracketed OOC lines in main. Now, it seems like OOC players who don't want to roleplay are taking over the game and pushing away many new players who would otherwise stick around. It's like the GMs are not performing their duties to ensure the server remains RP-only. Not to knock them, but this is getting really out of hand. I haven't seen any players being warned/kicked for refusing to be IC in main. And there are a lot who behave OOCly.
It honestly seems like roleplay isn't required anymore. And that is, from what I can see, terrible for this game. This might actually explain why the number of players online has dropped significantly since the EZPC server was merged into the Laanx server.
So, if roleplay is required, why is it not being enforced?
[edit] Adding the link to rules which clearly show that roleplay is meant to be enforced: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.0
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I hate to say it but I think It was partly the fault of bitchy role players that turned away players.. I'll put myself in that category and share the blame.
Must we continue to split everything into this or that rather than accepting that people play different ways and that that's ok?
The pvp only server failed, so did the roleplay server. Maybe having both was better in the first place?
I know I'm gonna get shit on for saying this.... 💩
Oh well..
/me looks for his raincoat, hat and golashes.
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Well, I remember Laanx being heavily populated and full of roleplay prior to the split. Then the EZPC server allowed non-roleplayers to flourish, and the merge back into Laanx probably had a negative effect on roleplay. The RP-only server didn't come close to failing until RP wasn't enforced anymore. (Not saying it's the reason for it, but that it may have something to do with it.)
I'm not against having two servers again, but it's a question of whether it's worth paying for.
I just expect that if you play on a roleplay-only server, you roleplay. Other games enforce RP on RP-only servers. It's pretty much expected.
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The problem is: I've seen people harass the hell out of someone, just because they missed one simple smiley, people who were actually trying to roleplay and ended up getting their proverbial ass handed back to them just by a simple mistake, and these guys can get out of it with virtually nothing said to or against them. Just yesterday I had to ask them to talk English in Main, and couldn't but give up when they wouldn't heed any warning or advice. I'm trying to grow a thicker skin like people like Gonger have, and become more patient, but even when I see him lose his cool it's kind of hard not to get frustrated and grit your teeth when you see these things.
Recently one of them robbed the hospital clean. Even if it's against the GM's rulings to air such things (http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stop_dont_come_back_willy_wonka.gif), I have no qualms in letting everyone know about this deed, motivated by a blatant disrespect towards the rule and a feeling of vengeance and pettiness. They abuse mechanics, do OOC actions and think that justifying them ICly will let them get away with it easily, just a slap of the wrist.
It says so on the server's MOTD: if you don't roleplay, don't bother. Keep it to private channels, and don't disturb the roleplayers - not only because it's a punishable offense to disturb roleplay, but also because this is a roleplaying game. You all know that I'm trying to change, but people like this group really need to start respecting these rules, or I'm going to start getting vicious again, and I'll regret it because I'll lash out on someone that won't deserve it. And while I don't condone public lynchings and harassing of players, I don't think I'm really paying much heed to what certain people say... Maybe someone will make someone else cry and leave. I don't know.
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Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do ( and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying. So we could aswell ask why there is even gameplay mechanics besides some basic functionality that helps roleplaying and creating immersion eg. placing probs? I mean, hell if you wanted to roleplay why go grinding? So obviously the answer is that while PS is first and foremost a RP, it's a game aswell.
Now, of course that does divide some people. There is those who don't roleplay at all and those who only roleplay and everything inbetween, making the distribution even. Or so would you think. Based on what you're talking, distribution is more leaning towards mechanical players at the moment.
The thing is, when we have every type of players in same server, we get larger distribution. So if we had two players instead (non rpers and rpers for example) we would have way less distribution on each server, making it easier to everyone to know who is a roleplayer and who is not. Instead of two servers, we can limit the current server aswell. So why wouldn't we enforce RP more hard? Like, why would we even really consider those who don't want to roleplay. i'm not trying to discriminate non roleplayers, but the thing is that when we have 1 server trying to serve 2 totally opposite types of players at the same time, it only ends up serving both types of players more poorly. And if the resources are not enough for two servers, i think our only chance is limiting from other end a bit. Enforcing RP is not bad IMHO since the game is supposed to be first and foremostly a true roleplaying game (go ahead and correct this if i'm wrong).
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I think the nomenclature is imprecise.
Roleplaying- storytelling
- worldbuilding
- challenging
Much like the so–called Threefold model, but better.
Anyways, don't forget that I did once recommend you guys migrate all the Storytelling to the boards here or to a text-based interface — because the 3D environment, if it didn't support your roleplaying, was obfusticating it. You could always do both: let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.
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You could always do both: let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.
That would just be rididcilous, atleast i enjoy the 3d environment, if i wanted text only RP on boards i could do it way more easily elsewhere ( + board RP is booooriiiing).
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Greetings to all!
This is a good and important thread, since it touches the foundations of PlaneShift.
On the PlaneShift website, http://www.planeshift.it/About states the following:
PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game immersed into a 3D virtual fantasy world, completely made and maintained by volunteers! Passionate RPG gamers gathered to create an open and freely available game.
There is also a link to the RP guide (http://www.planeshift.it/Roleplay%20Guide). This page does not contain any indication that RP is obligatory.
So on the one hand, nobody can say they do not know that PlaneShift is an RPG, but on the other hand there is no basis for enforcing RP in any form.
I believe that instead of enforcing we should try to convince and inform those who do not RP.
An occasional error like LOLing happens easily, and is hardly worth getting upset about, especially if it comes from a newbie. On recurrent errors, explain how emoting works, give examples, and point them to the Online Help where many predefined verbs are explained.
If this does not help, as long as non-RPers are not actually disturbing, it is often best to ignore them by not interacting with them. Consider also the use of /ignore.
In case the non-RPers are actually disturbing the RP of others (e.g. by speaking frequently OOC in main), /report them and write a short petition. Then the GMs can talk to the non-RPers in an official way.
Volki quite correctly mentioned the non-RP guilds who invite every new player they can catch
With some, it is even worse, they try to buy every new player into their guild ("We could do so much more for you if you joined our guild."). These guilds certainly are not helping the RP purpose of the game, unfortunately they are not likely to join this discussion and to give their point of view. Maybe the RP guilds could show more actively how they RP, it could even be fun to RP some conflicts between guilds.
There is no such thing as a perfect solution. My way is to try and teach, but I understand perfectly well that not everybody has the nerve to do this. Not to mention the major pain in the @§§ caused by trying to get through to the totally hopeless cases.
Mishka mentioned that she is trying to grow a thicker skin like people like Gonger have
I have a pretty thick skin when talking to newbies who actually listen and try to understand what PlaneShift and RP is all about. I can then literally spend hours explaining things to them.
My patience runs rather thin with people who think they know it all (and therefore do not need to learn and listen!), but know nothing. This terrible mix of arrogance and stupidity you find in some people.
Few people are good RPers at once, so what matters most IMHO is the will to learn. If that is given, the rest will come with time.
Emaline's recent initiative Intro to Roleplay is also a promising approach, and will hopefully be continued.
To sum up, we should not be fanatics in either way. Pardon small mistakes, show good example, ignore the hopeless cases, /report those who are actively disturbing.
Most important: Keep RPing and enjoying yourself. That's what we are here for!
May your blows never miss, and your spells never fail.
Gonger
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You could always do both: let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.
So, give the game up to the non-roleplayers? Roleplayers are not storytellers. The point of roleplaying is to play a role. You're playing a role in an RPG. This is an RPG. Just because RPG games have become saturated with non-roleplayers doesn't mean RPGs should change.
If I'm going to write a story, I'll do it in Word. If I want to do a text-based roleplay without mechanics, I'll do it on a forum. If I want to play an online game without roleplay, I'll play an FPS or MOBA or whatever. I play PS for roleplay with text, visuals, and mechanics (it could do better at implementing the latter for roleplay, though).
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This is going to be a double post but I think this deserves its own post.
There is also a link to the RP guide (http://www.planeshift.it/Roleplay%20Guide). This page does not contain any indication that RP is obligatory.
So on the one hand, nobody can say they do not know that PlaneShift is an RPG, but on the other hand there is no basis for enforcing RP in any form.
http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.0
It is supposed to be enforced.
4) talk in Main channel is for in character conversations
By playing on the role-play server you implicitly agree to:
* be consistent and stay true to character. (1)
* respect PlaneShift's unique game world and always keep character chat, action, and history consistent with the known PS universe.(2)
* interact with other players and let the actions of other characters help shape and define who our character(s) become. (3)
* use common sense. If we know an action will upset another player in real-life, we won't do it. This includes yelling at people because they are not playing the way we think they should, insulting others, trolling, or being rude. (4)
More on IC and OOC rules: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367014#msg367014
Not following any of these rules is liable to official actions stated in the Game Sanctions.
The sanctions referred to: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367013#msg367013
Break a rule and a GM will /tell you to stop.
Ignore the GM or break the rule again and you will receive an official warning.
Players that are officially warned will receive a message in red in all of their chat windows as well as a message across the screen so it is very difficult to miss.
Ignore the warning or break the rule again and you’ll be kicked off the server or temporarily banned.
I have seen these rules being enforced before. Years ago, but many times. It seems that the lack of enforcement has led players to believe that roleplay is not enforced. In actuality, it isn't. That is not a fault of the rules. The GMs are choosing not to enforce it. I, as a player, am not about to go complaining to other players about being OOC. That is a GM's job. As players, we can't really do anything but encourage roleplay.
There is plenty of information about roleplay within the link I shared that plainly states that roleplay and being IC is supposed to be enforced. There's no question about it. This is a strictly roleplaying game.
By the way, thanks to you guys for responding to this thread. Almost seemed like this was going to go nowhere.
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I can confirm that RP has been enforced before, few years backwards (maybe 3? it's been so darn long) GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"(btw don't ask me why i have done that ::) ). Why don't we have this kind of enforcing anymore?
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GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"
...That happened to me, too. xD
It used to be so strict that more than a few lines of bracketed OOC messages in main could get you muted. Which I generally support, as long as there isn't some bug or OOC situation that necessitates it.
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Volki, you are right about the information there, but: No newbie has a chance to know this. They are not familiar with the forums. If RP is to be enforced, then this should be mentioned in an easily accessible spot, like the RP Guide.
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They do say ignorance is not an excuse, but...
It might be a good idea to have these rules shown somewhere in the tutorial for noobs to read. And possibly put a condensed list of rules in the help window for easy reference. Even GMs /telling players to stop being OOC in main should be enough.
Whatever it is, it should be in-game. I've never seen the roleplay guide, and I only know about the rules in that thread because I've used the forums and been here a while.
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GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"
...That happened to me, too. xD
Sarva used to be specially insistant with this, did it to me when I was jumping from roof to roof in Hydlaa. I've found mountless parkour is much more enjoyable, though.
I'm going to say it again here: PS's unofficial motto is "be the change you want to see" which means that if something's missing, step in and fill it out, if you can. If you think you can put together a few pointers, and the GMs agree with it, feel free to put it wherver you feel is more adequate.
One idea, as I see it, would be to put a few pointers regarding general character information near Abelia (sic?), another near the blacksmith lady regarding production trades, another near Ibhaar with pointers on what to become in terms of fighting (or lack of it thereof), some small guidelines about roleplaying a mage near the Dermorian witch, and then at the end by the Nolthrir girl some more advanced pointers, like the emotes and the /me, /my and /mypet commands, and a quick explanation about guilds, without making publicity. If the GMs agree.
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Tldr
Conformity kills creativity. Pull the stick out of thine ass and get back roleplaying off the seat of your pants. All hail great Cthulhu, God of chaos!
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Tldr
Conformity kills creativity. Pull the stick out of thine ass and get back roleplaying off the seat of your pants. All hail great Cthulhu, God of chaos!
That would be something worth paying attention to if it hadn't been said by someone who only lurks in some forgotten forums for an indie roleplaying game. When you can give example, you may tell us to emulate it. I appreciate you and I know you're a great roleplayer, but as long as you're out of the scene RP-wise, I'm afraid I'd rather take someone else's advice.
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Don't judge the message by the messenger. Judge the message.
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As for being a good role player, I'm average at best. I had fun spewing my ideas into the game and seeing what would happen. Some lead to interesting RP while some flopped.
Some folks exert their will and give ides while some folks perceive and enjoy. Perception and will are one and the same, just different sides of the same coin.. We need both sides of the coin. Chaos is the fountain from which these ides flow.
What is a god but man weilding the force of chaos? To him, nothing is true; everything is permitted. - Peter J.Carroll, Liber Null
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Don't judge the message by the messenger. Judge the message.
Frankly, most important part of the message is the messenger itself.
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Before you guys go saying who is a good roleplayer and who is not, tell me tho, what does exactly separate average and good roleplayer? how about bad and average roleplayer?
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Conformity kills creativity. Pull the stick out of thine ass and get back roleplaying off the seat of your pants.
I'm probably missing something here, but I don't know what you mean by this.
what does exactly separate average and good roleplayer? how about bad and average roleplayer?
This thread is more focused on non-roleplayers versus roleplayers. As long as you're playing the role of a character, you're doing the bare minimum. Following the general rules of roleplay (e.g. not godmoding, powerplaying, metagaming), you're a good roleplayer. If you're encouraging roleplay, better than good.
As long as I no longer have to pretend there are bands of the mentally retarded and the occasional schizophrenic roaming the dome, shouting "lol" and talking about mechanics in main, I'll be able to immerse myself.
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Regarding Gonger's comments:
I think it is helpful to not look at things in terms of “RP” and “non-RP”, but at the concept of the world boundaries. Users on the one side, and performers a.k.a. player–characters on the other. When a user seeks immersion in a role, they usually seek to ignore the fourth wall of the simulation, yes, but more than that: they seek to guide their performer with behaviors that ignore the nature of that relationship.
When you hear someone yell out, “Hey, isn't this a fun game!?”, it might help if you interpret that more like - ‘What game? We aren't playing a game right now.’
- ‘Silly person — thinking life is a game. Get a job!’
rather than - Would you please cease disturbing my immersion?!
Of course, that doesn't mean you can't design the engine so that different groups of users can segregate themselves for the sake of playstyles. Deciding exactly how that is best done can be convoluted, however …
Volki, I don't think you actually understood what I was saying. I genuinely think that you should look at it again. Maybe, if you haven't already, do some research on the GNS or GDS models of roleplay: - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_Model
- https://wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_theory
Yes, I agree that certain artistic media are better suited to certain forms of creation. Literal forms are good for narrating stories, et c. I make a distinction between a ‘story’ and a ‘narration’, however.
I know I've said this already, but: If something shouldn't be possible in a world, then the engine — a.k.a. the mechanisms of that world — should not permit it.
Jumping atop the Laanx statue should be dangerous: surfaces should be slippery. It should also risk arrest by guards for your disturbing of the peace — and it shouldn't be a trivial matter to outrun them. Jumping from rooftops to evade pursuit — Aladdin did it in 1992. Maybe Enkidukai should be able to do such things more deftly.
So, that's why I don't play anymore. Too much fundamental disagreement; too few other users support my style of RP.
Maybe when the UE4 is released we'll get an infusion of new users who are more amenable to such RP, but just as likely there will be a flood of tweakers and toolers.
Maybe someone else knows what I am saying, and can give me a better way to say it so that it can be understood?
And, anyways, the nature of the messenger only matters both for what is imparted to the message and for any reliances by either source or recipient. Don't let a disliked messenger prevent you from bettering yourself — but, whatever.
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Can-ned Food, you have some interesting views on RP there. I will do some reading and thinking.
But I still believe the distinction RPers and non-RPers is crucial: If there were only RPers, there would be no need for such a discussion.
Ceterum censeo, better convince than enforce.
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Yes, I was thinking about what I said, and I recognized that I failed to talk on how many people who cross the boundary will be a disruption on those that don't, regardless of how the RPer responds to it. That's when we get into the various forms of that boundary and how the simulation is presented to multiple users.
- Acknowledge the users.
This is, of course, a settings thing. A Tron or Neuromancer MMOG would have fewer problems there. It also doesn't tell us how to handle users who are purposefully disruptive. - Use systematic oppression.
This one sounds atrocious, but it simply means that you monitor user actions and either restrict or police those which attempt to disrupt the boundary between user identity and player-character. The concern here is less for disruption of other users' immersion than it is to curtail cheating, though. … - Segregating the players.
Most already do something like this by offering multiple servers. That is only one of a few ways to ensure a certain ambience in the simulated environment, though. - Fortify the “mechanics” so as to necessitate RP.
What? Yes, that's right. Modelling hunger, fatigue, injury, and communications in the simulation makes it more difficult for someone to behave as though they didn't need to be concerned with those things. Heck, that's almost how it happens in our world …
Having no chat channels and making shouts difficult to hear at distances more than 300 yards doesn't prevent people from treating the environment as if it were a mere spectacle, but it all could presumably help to limit their ability to bother others.
If there are not too many, that is.
Less of these measures are draconian enforcement on the unwilling than they appear. One of the core principles of RP design is to only permit groups which all agree as to the nature of that RP. In MMOGs, this is not so simple; even allowing users to customize the nature of the permissible RP, and then limiting their interactions to others who've selected the same profile of environment, doesn't protect the sanctity of that environment, and the consequent experience, from lapses or from sabotauge.
You've got the engine for the purposes of supporting the RP; use it to that effect. Remember that a computer–based RPG, to varying degrees, can and often does employ a non-human acting as the GM: the engine itself.
Rather than require the user to remember to eat every few hours, why not model hunger and inform them when their avatar requires food? If you don't want to do that, then don't be surprised when someone goes all day and doesnt eat a bite.
The convincing should occur prior to a user's entry into the environment; if it happens later, then something went wrong long before.
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Volki, I don't think you actually understood what I was saying. I genuinely think that you should look at it again. Maybe, if you haven't already, do some research on the GNS or GDS models of roleplay: - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_Model
- https://wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_theory
In the language of the models you've brought up, we're talking about players who recognize game, simulation, and drama versus players who only recognize the game element. PlaneShift is meant to focus on all three. I don't play just for drama and simulation. I want the game to totally integrate roleplay.
I'm not sure how these models are helpful in this discussion, though. We've already established that there are players who have no interest in roleplay. Some of them don't seem intellectually capable of understanding what roleplay even is.
I know I've said this already, but: If something shouldn't be possible in a world, then the engine — a.k.a. the mechanisms of that world — should not permit it.
If only this game wasn't in perpetual alpha. I agree, and there are numerous things I've not done in the game because I've read the lore and realized that, even if mechanics permit something, it's not meant to be possible.
So, that's why I don't play anymore. Too much fundamental disagreement; too few other users support my style of RP.
What is your style of RP?
I wonder if any GMs have read the thread. It would be interesting to know why they've ceased punishing egregiously OOC players.
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I wonder if any GMs have read the thread. It would be interesting to know why they've ceased punishing egregiously OOC players.
I don't know if you guys have realized this or not...but there's only two of us who are active. We have RL jobs, and families and other obligations we like to attend to. And when we are in game we can't physically be everywhere at once. So if you see something that offends you and you've tried to send the player a tell (if you so choose) and they respond rudely, or continue the OOC behavior then please do a /report 'playername' and we will talk to them. If we don't see it or know it's happening we can't do anything about it.
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There have been people not being in character throughout the entire time I've played Planeshift if I remember correctly. As much as I'd like to see everyone be in character a lot of people play for the questing and other things, and it can't really be moderated unless you have like 10 GMs online and watching things like a hawk. So it'll always be a thing.
Personally when I see somebody running around on Geoni I just have him move out of their way and sometimes comment on how 'people are too rushed in this city' or something similar when it happens. :P
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Hi there.
This is an interesting thread. You, who participated in it, said lots already.
In generally I agree with Gonger´s notion of encouraging, being a positive example and using friendly tells to educate.
I don´t really agree with strong policing of any non-conforming action for pretty much the same reasons than I don´t really agree having two servers: Do you see the player statistic graphs for the server? I don´t think its wise to afford splitting the player community. I rather have 20 players on one server than 10 players on each of two servers. And I also would not like when a GM enforces conformity in a rude way. It would only leave to players leaving.
Yet, I read the argument in there, that if RP was enforced more strictly… there would be more players. I only know this server. I don´t know how it was before. But with that lack of background such a statement for me is speculation.
Also I do get that only two GMs can only do so much. Emaline and Uadjet are doing a *remarkable* job. I do not remember a time of this many GM hosted events in such a short time *ever* since I am playing. And I think this deserves a huge, big and fat
*Thank you!*. So I ask: If you want GMs to help you to encourage RP… help them to do their job, by pointing them to places and situations where players completely ignore it. They can´t realistically be at all places at all times.
As a leader of a guild who some may judge as a non role-playing guild I do not enforce RP either, but I know meanwhile that our guild have some players who really enjoy role playing and encourage it… including myself. However I would never kick a player out of a guild cause he or she wouldn´t like to RP and chooses to enjoy PlaneShift in a different way. And certainly not for still learning on how to RP and making mistakes during doing so. That said, I think members of our guild do not disturb RP anywhere. If you see one doing so, feel free to leave me a note and I promise to talk with that member when I happen to be online at the same time.
That all written: I am still leaning on how to RP and there is a limit of the immersion I seem to be able to hold up to. I found that I do not enjoy playing a char which is completely opposite to what I believe in. I admire Rygwin for it… or well maybe Rygwin you are just like that in RL too, engaging in dark rituals… and sinister plans?
/me misses the fear-inducing mighty and cruel dark mage Rygwin. Where have you gone? Did we defeat you? Don´t you dare to face my crystal way master powers? Anf whom did you take with you? I miss quite a few players of that time. Sulaika, Dannae, Yenida, Estaga just a name a few.
Let me add one more point by editing this post: Just that a GM stated a rule in a forum, probably years ago, for me doesn´t mean that it is set out in stone. Each GM will have a individual notion on how to encourage, probably enforce living or at least respecting those rules.
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I couldn't agree more, Damola. Creativity seems to flourish in the absence of oppression and criticism. The player (and GM) needs to feel free to fail as many times as it takes on their road to working their character. My criticism of fellow players (and GMs) and how they played ran contrary to this principal. It's a mistake that i hope not to repeat.
"I am still leaning on how to RP and there is a limit of the immersion I seem to be able to hold up to. I found that I do not enjoy playing a char which is completely opposite to what I believe in. "
The funny thing about this is that our characters come from within us. They are to some extent, a small facet of who and what we are even if we think that they are a complete opposite or fabrication. I found that role playing can help to reveal that which is hidden within - especially if you ask yourself ( your unconscious mind, your muse, or the universe ) to inspire you with rich symbols and ideas for your next role playing session and then just trust that it will happen.
As for Rigwyn, I've been letting him loose in real life just a bit. Not the nasty, murderous part of the character, but the anti-religious grouch who likes to dabble with the occult and shatter taboos. Perhaps one day I'll find myself with lots of time on my hands and stick him back into the game. For now, it's fair to assume that the character has gone into reclusion and is festering with resentment as he makes preparations for something terrible.
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As for Rigwyn, I've been letting him loose in real life just a bit. Not the nasty, murderous part of the character, but the anti-religious grouch who likes to dabble with the occult and shatter taboos. Perhaps one day I'll find myself with lots of time on my hands and stick him back into the game. For now, it's fair to assume that the character has gone into reclusion and is festering with resentment as he makes preparations for something terrible.
Come back. You'll love playing with Mishka's daughter. She's not as vicious as Mishka, though.
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Worry not, we all come back, eventually, no matter how much one would deny it. Got even first hnd ecxperience here. :oops:
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Sulaika, Dannae, Yenida, Estaga just a name a few.
;_;
So if you see something that offends you and you've tried to send the player a tell (if you so choose) and they respond rudely, or continue the OOC behavior then please do a /report 'playername' and we will talk to them.
It's official: /report players who consistently behave OOC.
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I'm not sure how these models are helpful in this discussion, though. We've already established that there are players who have no interest in roleplay. Some of them don't seem intellectually capable of understanding what roleplay even is.
Ah, pardon me, then. I must've come off very patronizingly: you obviously understood the background well enough, and It was my comment itself that was confusing you.
I should've been clearer: I wasn't debating your topical complaint — i.e. there are those who treat PlaneShift as if it were a hack–and–slash à la WoW clones. I was chiming in with regard to the post immediately prior mine:
Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do (and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying.
(underlining not in original text)
Those so–called ‘mechanics’, if developed and implemented properly, are the platform on which RP is performed. The trick — and it isn't even really a trick at all, but some designers seem to think that it is so — is where an RPG designer … there I go again.
What is your style of RP?
It really comes to this: the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability to properly realize my personage — avatar, playable character, whatever you want to call it. I know that others don't have the same problem, but i myself think that i'd be doing better if all my play was entirely on the message board.
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available; maybe i should actually begin an RP thread here, and use the 3D environment only when i need to verify the location of something or test the parameters of some combat.
Should I begin with a short story, or should I jump on up with a paragraph told in present tense and then wait for replies?
Unfortunately, the realtime aspect of the CrystalSpace simulation makes it more difficult to encounter other users, just as it does facilitate spontaneous and simultaneous group dynamics.
If my kran is in Gugrontid, kra is there for a reason; most kran, and kra especially, don't seek out large groups for social interaction. That is also a problem. :(
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Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do (and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying.
(underlining not in original text)
Those so–called ‘mechanics’, if developed and implemented properly, are the platform on which RP is performed. The trick — and it isn't even really a trick at all, but some designers seem to think that it is so — is where an RPG designer … there I go again.
Sorry, i didn't intend it to make it sound like mechanics can't support RP at all, it's just that they don't do it right now. We would need features like, dropping your skills to lower level temporarily or something in order that they can support RP. But yes, they could support RP, and i really wished they did.
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Ah, pardon me, then. I must've come off very patronizingly:
You didn't come off that way at all. The discussion you want to have about mechanics and roleplay might be better suited for its own thread, though. I'd be willing to talk about it on a thread designated for it.
It really comes to this: the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability to properly realize my personage — avatar, playable character, whatever you want to call it. I know that others don't have the same problem, but i myself think that i'd be doing better if all my play was entirely on the message board.
Ironically, I started out roleplaying on message boards, and I think it's given me practice in imagining the world my character would be seeing. I couldn't afford other games to roleplay in at the time, so I moved on to this game. At first it was jarring because I had never seen anyone using game mechanics to roleplay, and there were many elitist roleplayers who were against that, and I've grown to dislike that viewpoint quite a lot. The mechanics should be there to support roleplay, and /me and /say should be parts of your roleplay, not its entirety.
Obviously that's not possible with PS's current state. What I'm suggesting goes against solely narrativist-based roleplay.
I'm pretty sick, so that's about all I can say right now.
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«snip» the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability «snip»
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available; «snip»
I hope those comments weren't disparaging to the people who are working on the PlaneShift project. Keep up the good work.
Most of my efforts are better directed to developing my own RP systems rather than applied to another one: that's why it seems like I complain but don't offer to help.
Yeah, I think we actually agree on a lot of stuff, Volki. If my MMOW ever gets completed in playable form, maybe you'll like it.
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Can't be disparaging if it's the truth and you don't intend to belittle. Besides, it's your obligation to share your opinion on the game's current state since PS's players are also meant to be testers. Part of testing is criticizing design and execution.
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Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.
Yeah, I think we actually agree on a lot of stuff, Volki. If my MMOW ever gets completed in playable form, maybe you'll like it.
I also think it's unrespectfull to talk about other similar projects, even if it's intended to help with criticism.
«snip» the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability «snip»
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available; «snip»
I don't believe it's the crystal space, i believe it's more like that the devs don't have too much spare time as it is and can't make everything we believe that could be cool. Devs are doing awesome work as it is and big thanks for that! \\o//
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Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.
I don't think I made myself clear enough.
I'm trying to say that it's part of the process of producing a game to accept criticism made by testers. Games have entire departments of testers that look for bugs, try to break the game, and comment on the playability/usability. Game testing databases have whole categories for criticism. If something is UV-mapped incorrectly and visually jarring, you had better make a report on it, even if it might hurt the artist's feelings. If you experienced a bug that makes continuation impossible because you don't receive an item or game state that allows progress, you need to make a bug report tagged as severe. If something is just plain not fun (and not due to bugs), you report that in the category for flaws in design. Something being "not fun" in a game will kill its success, so it's important to have testers there to determine whether it's worth being played by actual players.
I've heard numerous times from industry professionals that "If you take offense to criticism, you should not be making games." Criticism is not belittling someone personally. It's the judgment of concept, process, or execution. If you can't accept criticism, your game will fail.
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Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.
I don't think I made myself clear enough.
I'm trying to say that it's part of the process of producing a game to accept criticism made by testers. Games have entire departments of testers that look for bugs, try to break the game, and comment on the playability/usability. Game testing databases have whole categories for criticism. If something is UV-mapped incorrectly and visually jarring, you had better make a report on it, even if it might hurt the artist's feelings. If you experienced a bug that makes continuation impossible because you don't receive an item or game state that allows progress, you need to make a bug report tagged as severe. If something is just plain not fun (and not due to bugs), you report that in the category for flaws in design. Something being "not fun" in a game will kill its success, so it's important to have testers there to determine whether it's worth being played by actual players.
I've heard numerous times from industry professionals that "If you take offense to criticism, you should not be making games." Criticism is not belittling someone personally. It's the judgment of concept, process, or execution. If you can't accept criticism, your game will fail.
No, i don't think i made myself clear enough, seems like my point was totally missed.
Criticism is fine, and players should make it. And content creators should listen to it and bear it, yes.
What is not fine thought, is being straight up disrespectfull. What one can say is "I don't think this game is enjoyable, cause...(insert explanation here." What one cannot say is something like "this game sucks, it's not enjoyable and the devs should learn to make games cause they suck". That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful. And that, is not productive for anyone at all. Criticism should always be always represented respectfully and with details, like what do you think is wrong and what is good.
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That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful.
You're talking about being disrespectful, then, not criticism. Even you said yourself that they're two separate things. lol
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That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful.
You're talking about being disrespectful, then, not criticism. Even you said yourself that they're two separate things. lol
Yes, and that was my point all along (which i failed to properly represent lol).
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Am I the only one who thinks that IC RP interaction with players who don't pay enough attention to RP can lead to really exciting RP just because of the stark contrast?
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Am I the only one who thinks that IC RP interaction with players who don't pay enough attention to RP can lead to really exciting RP just because of the stark contrast?
How do you RP with someone who does not RP? Can you give some example?
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If there's someone running around haphazardly then you can comment on that. If someone is just talking instead of RPing then that's fine, you're just talking after all, if someone mentions OOC terms, just have your character wonder what they mean and then say something "Hmm npcs? never heard of that do you maybe mean the townspeople?" or things like that. It's better to react to people than to plainly ignore what they say, I think. unless it is their first time ofcourse, then an OOC explanation seems best?
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Or, rather than just pretending noone is OOC, just report the player.
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Burn the witch! :devil:
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If it's a noob, guide them. Better than having the GMs punish someone for being OOC on a game with rules that are hard to find or understand.
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Yeah, of course. Especially for those who are not too blatant with their OOCness — because everything I do in PS is something which I'd consider to be IC, I used to simply do what I do and hope that others would come along.
However, there are also a few people who simply don't talk. Like this one person who asked Gedundk to trade, ex nihilo, and wouldn't respond to my /pst later. Come on: even if you don't speak the same language as my messages, you can at least acknowledge me.
This is the manner of OOCness which you can easily include in your RP: Hey, I need to rank up in my Trapeze skill. Can you help me?
The stuff which cannot be included — e.g. Oh, wow, last night's episode of Wacky Buckaroo Wallaby was outrageous!
— is more problematic. Restricting conversation modes would help there — and also allow NPCs to participate in conversations more easily, — but would also, of course, require all verbatim talk to occur in a chat client operating alongside the RP world proper.
Leastways, that's one way to do it.