Very Exploitable Idea: Moveable Limbs

[Volki]

This isn't really a wish, but I had a dream of this. So, it's not really my idea, but my dream's. And it wasn't for this game specifically. This is just the only one where I can see it mattering.

The idea was player-controlled limb movement. Like how you can position and rotate items, but with limbs. I doubt the game can be programmed to do this, but like I said, I'm only sharing this because it came to me in a dream. And I remember it being both cool and funny. And now I realize it could be exploited easily.

Would make roleplay more interesting, though. Easier to tell what's going on. Imagine, if you were standing next to someone, and you actually stabbed them visibly. Someone running by might see it and stop to help the victim instead of running off because it takes you forever to post.

I guess it's irritating to know actions are being done while being unable to see them being done.

[LigH]

The currently still used mesh animation technique remaining from older CrystalSpace versions does not allow free modification at runtime, you have to precreate animation stages for the whole mesh and play them as result of an event (like the greeting animation when "/greet" or "/wave" emotes are called, or the sitting animation for "/sit").

It may be possible to prepare more animations and play them with other emotes. But you need talented developers to create natural and credible movements as a kind of stop-motion animation. And there are also issues with this system, as you can see in the out-of-order waving of Kran (the order appears correct in animation development tools but plays wrong in game).

The current version of CrystalSpace supports a much more flexible animation feature. But that would mean to rebuild all the character models in a new format.

[Volki]

I hate how I knew that and went on to make this thread anyway.

Off topic: Do you think the character models will be remade in the future? It's no secret that everyone thinks they are terrifyingly bad.

[LigH]

I always again wonder how you can know what "everyone" thinks.

I am quite certain that the development team is rather happy to have at all another artist who is able to make a new character model. There are so few of such talented people. And even less who work for free.

But yes ... it is quite probable that PlaneShift may switch to the more flexible mesh animation technique "not-too-soon™". After many more urgent features have been implemented.

[Volki]

Well, when everyone is making fun of them it probably doesn't mean they think the models are good.

[LigH]

You may be a bit loose with the term "everyone", as it excludes noone. But at least in maths, you have to prove that there are no exceptions before you claim "for every ...". You can only know the characters or players you already met. But assuming that those you did not yet meet are all the same is a bold kind of generalization.

Regarding myself, yes, I see flaws in one or another model. Especially the older ones (e.g. the stiff walk of male Ylians). But the development learns from previous mistakes and tries to avoid them for newer models, as much as the available technology permits. For an Open Source game with leisure time development, I like the overall quality of character and animal models so far, it is reasonable within the whole game world.

The animation system is probably one of the tightest limits about them. The idle motions are repetitive and start to annoy when you watch it for the first weeks. But I am always again surprised how I get used to them after a month.

[Volki]

I learned that being so strict with speech makes me very irritating. There is a reason language is separated from mathematics in school.

Anyway, I introduced a couple new people to this game and they couldn't stop laughing at the models.

Give as many excuses as you like. They're still bad.

[LigH]

Then pay professional 3D artists.

[Volki]

You really think people are going to give this game slack because it's free? Look at the number of players and think again.

[LigH]

But I doubt that the number of players is only low because the quality of the models is awwww soooo horrible. I don't see much relation here. "The game" is not just the appearance. MineCraft has a lot less elaborate models, it is as simplified and "ugly" as it can be; but it is fun. Why else should it have such a number of players? PlaneShift may be able to improve its models, probably slower than professional artists may be able. But that won't improve "the game" fundamentally.

[Candy]

Actually I've had several newbies tell me they just can't continue because it's so "ugly". Even when stated in the same breath as "This world is so empty, where are the players?" or "The combat system reminds me of RuneScape" (this particular comment was before the improved mob AI, which while a step forward, probably still isn't enough for player retention), they still seemed to find the graphics to be PlaneShift's most egregious sin in their eyes.

As for MineCraft, it's deliberately simple with a style that's evocative of nostalgic 8-bit games. The mobs are even kind of cute, when they're not blowing up your build or knocking down your doors. It just works. PlaneShift, on the other hand, is trying for a realistic look and, admittedly, often landing in the wrong part of the uncanny valley. Most of us have grown used to seeing the models and maybe even don't think they look that bad, but a new player seeing them with fresh eyes wouldn't think the same way. Add to that it sometimes takes lowering the graphics to the point where the textures look like Impressionist paintings, and yeah, I wouldn't take a second look if I didn't know about the RP community.

Getting back to the actual topic, the closest I can think of to Sarras's vision is either Second Life/OSGrid/etc, or QWOP. I think it's safe to assume she's talking closer to the former, except without having to use external programs to make your own animations and poses. It would certainly be an interesting idea for PS - admittedly I'd probably spend a couple hours putting my characters in impossible positions just to test the limits and maybe get a laugh, but it would also greatly enhance the roleplay experience.