Plans to change stat leveling?

[Volki]

Was just discussing this in gossip, so I wondered if the developers were considering this as well.

The way leveling stats in this game works is by speaking to a trainer and trading practice points and money for higher levels. However, raising skills requires no visits to trainers. If striving for realism, these methods of leveling clash and don't make much sense.

In my opinion, it would be more realistic to have players level stats without trainer visits and level skills by visiting a trainer every 10-20 levels or so.

The other issue, which a lot of noobs face, is that stat trainers are difficult to find. You'd think that they would advertise their profession, given they take money to give players levels. Once again, advertising, "I'll help you build agility," doesn't make much sense, so switching the methods of leveling for skills and stats would make more sense here. Imagine seeing a poster that says, "Looking for a sword trainer? ___ will teach you in the Arena!"

The real purpose for this post is to know whether the developers plan to change this inconsistency, but I invite discussion from regular players. I really want to see this change, possibly to something better than what I suggested above.

[Venalan]

This is planned, but it's much harder to correctly balance building of all 6 stats than it is one skill. Do we try and award a selection of stat points at the same time as skill practice points while training a skill (i think currently possible)? If we do then which skill(s) to which stat(s), and what learning speed(s), and what ratio(s), and this also forces players into practicing those skills if they want to better a specific stats. It make sense that you get stronger the more mining or fighting you do, but doesn't make sense if those are the only ways to train it. Right now the pay system has no counter dependencies which could force people into doing things they don't want too. Or do we try and get engine support added so things like training stats can go with running and carrying heavy things about (not currently possible without lots of server side code added).

This aspect of training has been put to one side for the time being as we all got stuck into making other things. Perhaps if eonwind sees this he can give more info on when this might get looked at again.

[Bonifarzia]

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=39540.msg449485#msg449485 

[Volki]

[Rigwyn]

Remember folks, the end user's behavior will be equally reinforced with a plain, worthless token reward.

[Eonwind]

Like Venalan said, at some point we had a project to tie stats training to a specific set of skill, however this seemed to "steal" peoples abilities to choose which stat to raise and how. Coupling the system with practice points (buy stats OR train them) is currently not possible (but it's possible to buy AND train with practice, but this seems not fun at all).
Therefore we decided to keep things the way they are, maybe we can provide IC direction to trainers and give such information in a IC compatible way (e.g. "do you want a way to improve your memory [Intelligence]? You should visit this person, he can teach you some helpful memorization exercise...")

[Nebulus]

I have to disagree with Volki on this. To me it makes perfect sense to level skills by actually using them. Just as irl you get better at something by doing it over and over. A guy who has done the same job for 10 years will obviously be better at doing it than the guy who just got hired last week,because he's done it over and over again. Stats not being a skill,but a physical or mental attribute to make using a skill easier or more proficient to use,I think works fine with the current method of building up PP from gained exp.
If it aint broke,why "fix" it until it is?

[Volki]

I have to disagree with Volki on this. To me it makes perfect sense to level skills by actually using them.

That's what I suggest, but with the addition of some levels requiring you to visit a trainer. You'll learn less on your own than you would with a teacher. I can't think of any skill that isn't like that.

Another idea I just had, but which might not be feasible, is to use training buffs. You could visit a trainer and buy a skill level, as well as being given a buff that increases the speed of leveling. Works like other buffs with a timer. Alternatively, you could buy a consumable item from a trainer which gives you the buff. It could be in the form of a book or scroll.

Just throwing out ideas now.

If it aint broke,why "fix" it until it is?

In this case, it's broken already. One of my characters is so deprived of PP that I can't level stats any further, and I've no idea how to realistically acquire PP without losing my life.

ACTUALLY

Why hasn't PP been done away with completely? What is its purpose in the game right now? (Besides being an annoyance.)

[Nebulus]

There are plenty of non-combat related skills you can use to gain exp,and therefore PP. I'm pretty sure you can level most all of them up quite a bit without losing your life,though I don't know you,so don't quote me on that. 

[Echoes91]

Why not removing the trainers at all and use only PPs instead?
If we consider them as an "effort" estimation that the character put into any activity, then it's up to the player to choose what kind of effort was it, thus the stat raised. If i say that my character mainly used his strength for doing whatever he did (striking with the rock-pick, drawing the bow harder etc.) then his strength will be increased, otherwise if he toiled for a long time and kept himself motivated, I'll raise endurance and will and so on.
Harder results will still reward much more than effortless ones, but without the annoyance of what looks like a tax that may penalize somebody's favorite activity because it has little market.
Please leave the money for material goods and services and unbound the personal improvements from them!