[ABC License] Comments, flaws, questionings...

[Aeghiss]

http://www.planeshift.it/License

As I've been thinking about a project for PlaneShift (don't ask, you'll know things in due course - it should be a surprise even for the Devs team ), I was also led to wonder about PS content license. And then to wonder about some of its points... That's why I decided to open a topic to discuss it (and I said discuss, not complain nor criticize).

First of all : about artists giving up the rights on their work to Atomic Blue. The reasons why are well explained and I have nothing to oppose... Except for a slight thing :

Any other work (such as 2D graphics, 3D models, music and sounds, character descriptions or fantasy world histories) will be the property of Atomic Blue once you submit it

Shouldn't the work become AB's property only once the team decide to use it ?
Let's say I drew a wonderful concept art for a creature to be added to PlaneShift. According to the situation, once I submit it to the devs I have no rights on it anymore... Which means, even if PlaneShift don't use it I can't get it back to use it for anything else, and thus the artwork is lost.

Second point : what about player character names and history ? What I mean is, as long as we create a character and make his/her/kra story public, it is somehow submited to AB and a part of PlaneShift universe, especially if the character is famous. Thus :
1) Every player mess with the ABC Licence when he/she plays his/her character(s)... That's nonsense.
2) Any player who leave for years, may come back to see his/her character has been deleted and put into a NPC and got his/her/kra story changed... I doubt AB would ever do that, but still, as it is a legal text, the ABC License should be flawless, and I consider that point a flaw.
3) Last but not least. Aeghiss is the name of my main character. Thus, I have no right anymore to use it as a pseudo nor to name any of my characters. Aeghiss has been my pseudo for everything for years and is a part of my identity, so you can easily understand that I feel it unbearable... I may be the only one in that case, but I doubt it.

[Thoss]

I know nothing, but the boards are quiet.

Question I would have is how would things work in a fully proprietary game company... because if talking art/setting/etc... is best to view it that way... I would assume while on the clock for a big proprietary developer, everything I created (as an employee) would be owned by the company, no matter what, even if not used... (maybe it will be perfect for that PlaneShift expansion in 20 years...)

So, in my reading... if you have signed the Atomic Blue Contribution License and submit a work under the license ... you are in a sense working as an employee for Atomic Blue and thus they own it.

As for players... I have not signed the contribution license... or at least not that I am aware of... so my character Thoss... has not been submitted as a permanent part of the world... if he becomes famous, all players know about him, he is still not a permanent part of the world... as I could simply never play him again.

If the team wants to immortalize Thoss as a permanent part of the game, and I agree that that would be super cool, I am assuming that I would then need to sign the contribution license... because the years of development put into Thoss and making him awesome... would be a hefty contribution to the game.

As for names... interesting point... but my character's name Thoss... hasn't been submitted under a contribution license... given that, I don't think the name can be the kicker for a case of an IP violation... i.e.  if I were to write a book in the Real World and use Thoss Yonbur as a character name... I don't think it would matter... unless I stole enough PS setting material to the point where the name doesn't matter... i.e. in my  book, he has no name but I described him as a Dermorian who likes to hang out in a bar called Kada-El's in a town named Hydlaa. That might get some interest. But again, in this case, the name isn't the issue.

If my book became the next Potter serious and I made tons of money but it had nothing to do with a  fantasy series, even though the main character's name is Thoss Yonbur, I still don't think it would be a violation, nor do I think Atomic Blue would pursue it as they would waste money and resources and likely lose.

If my uber popular book was in a fantasy setting... and that setting was kinda similar to PS... I would expect them to take a close interest and perhaps get some advice from IP lawyers... but by then I am uber rich myself and have awesome lawyers so it will be a good PvP battle.

They would still need to decide if their case was strong enough to devote the time and resources and potential exposure... as perhaps I have evidence that my story about Thoss in a fantasy setting kinda similar to PS, was put in writing 10 years before PS existed... and they are violating me...

Glad I don't have to deal with this stuff.

[edited spelling and other mistakes]

[Venalan]

In my view I guess the problem here is a part of this bit "will be the property of Atomic Blue once you submit it" exactly the "once you submit it" bit. If you sign the ABC licence but do not "submit" anything to PlaneShift for inclusion to the game then nothing you do is covered by it. I guess there could be more calirity as to what it means by "submit it" to be clear that it should be a consious act. If you sign it and make one book and submit that, say by e-mailing me saying "Hey I made this cool book on cakes I'd like to have it added to PlaneShift", then it would be covered by the licence but nothing else you do/say/post.

[Rigwyn]

Why is it so hard for people to just "give" something, no matter how small, and forget about it?

When you "give", you transfer ownership.  That's what this license is stating - that you are "giving" with no strings attached. That you won't be an "Indian giver" and take it back, or try to "not really give it" by retaining control over how it's used.

The folks who made the game and who pay the Internet and hosting bills have already "given" something to you. They have given you a copy of their software that they made. They have given you the ability to play their game free of charge. Someone else has paid for the bandwidth that you use when you play and for the computer that the server is running on.

Man up and give something back without looking for credit or the right to take it back or to control how it's used. 

If you do that much, you at least get to feel like you contributed something to the game community no matter how small.

[Dilihin]

Rigwyn i think the point was that if you give someone an apple, but he leaves it to rot somewhere and is clearly not eating it at all, why wouldnt you take it back and eat it yourself?

[Eonwind]

Speaking about player character names and history: I think this answer is pretty accurate:

As for players... I have not signed the contribution license... or at least not that I am aware of... so my character Thoss... has not been submitted as a permanent part of the world... if he becomes famous, all players know about him, he is still not a permanent part of the world... as I could simply never play him again.

If the team wants to immortalize Thoss as a permanent part of the game, and I agree that that would be super cool, I am assuming that I would then need to sign the contribution license... because the years of development put into Thoss and making him awesome... would be a hefty contribution to the game.

The character you have created as a player belongs to you, the name, the concept, etc. on top of that the scope of the sentence is to prevent characters' ownership created and submitted to the settings (read NPCs) are not claimed back creating big problems to the project as a whole (imagine what would happen if harnquist or Trasok's creators decide they don'y want us to use the characters anymore).

So, don't worry feel free to use the character as you wish
Also we like PlaneShift side projects started by fans
Usually we have no problem at all letting people use the art owned by ABC for fan project, just make sure to let us know if/when is the case

[Aeghiss]

Rigwyn i think the point was that if you give someone an apple, but he leaves it to rot somewhere and is clearly not eating it at all, why wouldnt you take it back and eat it yourself?

That's the exact idea, and of course I have no problem with giving (Eonwind can testify I suggested things though I can't be an actual prospect for now).
If I mentioned that point, it's not only because I'm concerned with it, but also because it can repel people who may like to contribute.
Of course I assume this can be settled on with the team, but still, making the legal text more precise would make it more attractive to potential contributors.

The character you have created as a player belongs to you, the name, the concept, etc.

Of course I trust the team and I don't expect them to claim right on player characters, but still, that's unclear in the ABC license and I like flawless things. ^^"

[Thoss]

So, don't worry feel free to use the character as you wish
Also we like PlaneShift side projects started by fans
Usually we have no problem at all letting people use the art owned by ABC for fan project, just make sure to let us know if/when is the case

Good to read this Eonwind thanks!!

Probably a good position to take as if I do ever write that smash hit book (not gonna happen, but if) and it is a character of mine based on PS.. seems the smart thing for AB to do would be to capitalize on that... put a "based on characters from the awesome game PlaneShift, come and play in the world you love.. " note on the book jacket... then hoards of rabid Thoss fans come into PS to RP and hang out and I am sure never post LOLz in main.  :/

(note:  all examples in reference to Thoss are full of hyperbole...)

[MishkaL1138]

Also we like PlaneShift side projects started by fans

Sure you do. I remember the last time someone tried. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I won't say in public.

[Rigwyn]

Rigwyn i think the point was that if you give someone an apple, but he leaves it to rot somewhere and is clearly not eating it at all, why wouldnt you take it back and eat it yourself?

Because If you actually "gave" the item, then you transferred ownership of that item and no longer have the right to control how it's used and likewise, no longer have the right to take it back - which would be stealing in this case.

I think they are asking people to "give" assets and not to just "share" them or offer the right to use them with conditions attached.  This would make it kind of hard to use these assets and would require tracking the usage requirements and limitations for each donated asset and would introduce the possibility that some assets might need to removed from the game should the donor revoke the right to use them - leading to instability.

[Dilihin]

Yes but, for example if Aeghiss saw some effort to do something for the game but could use it otherwise aswell and the team decides to not use it, it wouldnt make sense. OFC its possible to ask the team about usage of it before submitting the ownership...

[Eonwind]

Yes but, for example if Aeghiss saw some effort to do something for the game but could use it otherwise aswell and the team decides to not use it, it wouldnt make sense. OFC its possible to ask the team about usage of it before submitting the ownership...

Yes. If there are questions it's always possible to come to us and ask. In IRC or here on the forum are two good places.