RP Not Required?

[MishkaL1138]

As for Rigwyn, I've been letting him loose in real life just a bit. Not the nasty, murderous part of the character, but the anti-religious grouch who likes to dabble with the occult and shatter taboos. Perhaps one day I'll find myself with lots of time on my hands  and stick him back into the game. For now, it's fair to assume that the character has gone into reclusion and is festering with resentment as he makes preparations for something terrible.

Come back. You'll love playing with Mishka's daughter. She's not as vicious as Mishka, though.

[Dilihin]

Worry not, we all come back, eventually, no matter how much one would deny it. Got even first hnd ecxperience here.

[Volki]

Sulaika, Dannae, Yenida, Estaga just a name a few.

;_;

So if you see something that offends you and you've tried to send the player a tell (if you so choose) and they respond rudely, or continue the OOC behavior then please do a /report 'playername' and we will talk to them.

It's official: /report players who consistently behave OOC.

[Can-ned Food]

I'm not sure how these models are helpful in this discussion, though. We've already established that there are players who have no interest in roleplay. Some of them don't seem intellectually capable of understanding what roleplay even is.

Ah, pardon me, then.  I must've come off very patronizingly:  you obviously understood the background well enough, and It was my comment itself that was confusing you.

I should've been clearer:  I wasn't debating your topical complaint — i.e. there are those who treat PlaneShift as if it were a hack–and–slash à la WoW clones.  I was chiming in with regard to the post immediately prior mine: 

Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do (and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying.

 
(underlining not in original text) 
Those so–called ‘mechanics’, if developed and implemented properly, are the platform on which RP is performed.  The trick — and it isn't even really a trick at all, but some designers seem to think that it is so — is where an RPG designer … there I go again.

What is your style of RP?

It really comes to this:  the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability to properly realize my personage — avatar, playable character, whatever you want to call it.  I know that others don't have the same problem, but i myself think that i'd be doing better if all my play was entirely on the message board. 
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available; maybe i should actually begin an RP thread here, and use the 3D environment only when i need to verify the location of something or test the parameters of some combat.

Should I begin with a short story, or should I jump on up with a paragraph told in present tense and then wait for replies?

Unfortunately, the realtime aspect of the CrystalSpace simulation makes it more difficult to encounter other users, just as it does facilitate spontaneous and simultaneous group dynamics. 
If my kran is in Gugrontid, kra is there for a reason; most kran, and kra especially, don't seek out large groups for social interaction.  That is also a problem. 

[Dilihin]

Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do (and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying.

 
(underlining not in original text) 
Those so–called ‘mechanics’, if developed and implemented properly, are the platform on which RP is performed.  The trick — and it isn't even really a trick at all, but some designers seem to think that it is so — is where an RPG designer … there I go again.

Sorry, i didn't intend it to make it sound like mechanics can't support RP at all, it's just that they don't do it right now. We would need features like, dropping your skills to lower level temporarily or something in order that they can support RP. But yes, they could support RP, and i really wished they did.

[Volki]

Ah, pardon me, then.  I must've come off very patronizingly:

You didn't come off that way at all. The discussion you want to have about mechanics and roleplay might be better suited for its own thread, though. I'd be willing to talk about it on a thread designated for it.

It really comes to this:  the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability to properly realize my personage — avatar, playable character, whatever you want to call it.  I know that others don't have the same problem, but i myself think that i'd be doing better if all my play was entirely on the message board.

Ironically, I started out roleplaying on message boards, and I think it's given me practice in imagining the world my character would be seeing. I couldn't afford other games to roleplay in at the time, so I moved on to this game. At first it was jarring because I had never seen anyone using game mechanics to roleplay, and there were many elitist roleplayers who were against that, and I've grown to dislike that viewpoint quite a lot. The mechanics should be there to support roleplay, and /me and /say should be parts of your roleplay, not its entirety.

Obviously that's not possible with PS's current state. What I'm suggesting goes against solely narrativist-based roleplay.

I'm pretty sick, so that's about all I can say right now.

[Can-ned Food]

«snip»  the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability  «snip» 
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available;  «snip»

I hope those comments weren't disparaging to the people who are working on the PlaneShift project.  Keep up the good work. 
Most of my efforts are better directed to developing my own RP systems rather than applied to another one:  that's why it seems like I complain but don't offer to help.


Yeah, I think we actually agree on a lot of stuff, Volki.  If my MMOW ever gets completed in playable form, maybe you'll like it.

[Volki]

Can't be disparaging if it's the truth and you don't intend to belittle. Besides, it's your obligation to share your opinion on the game's current state since PS's players are also meant to be testers. Part of testing is criticizing design and execution.

[Dilihin]

Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.

Yeah, I think we actually agree on a lot of stuff, Volki.  If my MMOW ever gets completed in playable form, maybe you'll like it.

I also think it's unrespectfull to talk about other similar projects, even if it's intended to help with criticism.

«snip»  the 3D virtual environment of PlaneShift (CrystalSpace) hinders my ability  «snip» 
Maybe the UE4 will have more emotes and environment interactivity available;  «snip»

I don't believe it's the crystal space, i believe it's more like that the devs don't have too much spare time as it is and can't make everything we believe that could be cool. Devs are doing awesome work as it is and big thanks for that! 

[Volki]

Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.

I don't think I made myself clear enough.

I'm trying to say that it's part of the process of producing a game to accept criticism made by testers. Games have entire departments of testers that look for bugs, try to break the game, and comment on the playability/usability. Game testing databases have whole categories for criticism. If something is UV-mapped incorrectly and visually jarring, you had better make a report on it, even if it might hurt the artist's feelings. If you experienced a bug that makes continuation impossible because you don't receive an item or game state that allows progress, you need to make a bug report tagged as severe. If something is just plain not fun (and not due to bugs), you report that in the category for flaws in design. Something being "not fun" in a game will kill its success, so it's important to have testers there to determine whether it's worth being played by actual players.

I've heard numerous times from industry professionals that "If you take offense to criticism, you should not be making games." Criticism is not belittling someone personally. It's the judgment of concept, process, or execution. If you can't accept criticism, your game will fail.

[Dilihin]

Criticism is fine as long as you remain respectful and don't offend any of the content creators etc. i believe.

I don't think I made myself clear enough.

I'm trying to say that it's part of the process of producing a game to accept criticism made by testers. Games have entire departments of testers that look for bugs, try to break the game, and comment on the playability/usability. Game testing databases have whole categories for criticism. If something is UV-mapped incorrectly and visually jarring, you had better make a report on it, even if it might hurt the artist's feelings. If you experienced a bug that makes continuation impossible because you don't receive an item or game state that allows progress, you need to make a bug report tagged as severe. If something is just plain not fun (and not due to bugs), you report that in the category for flaws in design. Something being "not fun" in a game will kill its success, so it's important to have testers there to determine whether it's worth being played by actual players.

I've heard numerous times from industry professionals that "If you take offense to criticism, you should not be making games." Criticism is not belittling someone personally. It's the judgment of concept, process, or execution. If you can't accept criticism, your game will fail.

No, i don't think i made myself clear enough, seems like my point was totally missed.

Criticism is fine, and players should make it. And content creators should listen to it and bear it, yes.
What is not fine thought, is being straight up disrespectfull. What one can say is "I don't think this game is enjoyable, cause...(insert explanation here." What one cannot say is something like "this game sucks, it's not enjoyable and the devs should learn to make games cause they suck". That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful. And that, is not productive for anyone at all. Criticism should always be always represented respectfully and with details, like what do you think is wrong and what is good.

[Volki]

That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful.

You're talking about being disrespectful, then, not criticism. Even you said yourself that they're two separate things. lol

[Dilihin]

That is not sensible criticism, actually not criticism at all, more like useless bashing and being utterly disrespectful.

You're talking about being disrespectful, then, not criticism. Even you said yourself that they're two separate things. lol

Yes, and that was my point all along (which i failed to properly represent lol).

[Mairon]

Am I the only one who thinks that IC RP interaction with players who don't pay enough attention to RP can lead to really exciting RP just because of the stark contrast?

[gonger]

Am I the only one who thinks that IC RP interaction with players who don't pay enough attention to RP can lead to really exciting RP just because of the stark contrast?

How do you RP with someone who does not RP? Can you give some example?