RP Not Required?

[Volki]

I've been noticing a trend of players using smiley faces and chatspeak ("lol", "btw", OOC abbreviations, etc.) in main. I've noticed another of guilds forming without roleplay, the players not understanding the difference between IC and OOC or what roleplay even is. Then I see those guilds invite every new player they can catch into their guilds. And because these guilds rarely roleplay, and what roleplay they do have doesn't differentiate between IC and OOC, these new players don't encounter much roleplay at all and more often than not quit playing. And then there are the blatantly OOC guilds that shouldn't exist at all--e.g., Captainsriffcrew (yes, that is the name).

When I was a new player, you could be kicked/banned for posting too many bracketed OOC lines in main. Now, it seems like OOC players who don't want to roleplay are taking over the game and pushing away many new players who would otherwise stick around. It's like the GMs are not performing their duties to ensure the server remains RP-only. Not to knock them, but this is getting really out of hand. I haven't seen any players being warned/kicked for refusing to be IC in main. And there are a lot who behave OOCly.

It honestly seems like roleplay isn't required anymore. And that is, from what I can see, terrible for this game. This might actually explain why the number of players online has dropped significantly since the EZPC server was merged into the Laanx server.

So, if roleplay is required, why is it not being enforced?

[edit] Adding the link to rules which clearly show that roleplay is meant to be enforced: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.0

[Rigwyn]

I hate to say it but I think It was partly the fault of bitchy role players that turned away players.. I'll put myself in that category and share the blame.
 
Must we continue to split everything into this or that rather than accepting that people play different ways and that that's ok?

The pvp only server failed, so did the roleplay server. Maybe having both was better in the first place?

I know I'm gonna get shit on for saying this.... 💩

Oh well..

* Rigwyn looks for his raincoat, hat and golashes.

[Volki]

Well, I remember Laanx being heavily populated and full of roleplay prior to the split. Then the EZPC server allowed non-roleplayers to flourish, and the merge back into Laanx probably had a negative effect on roleplay. The RP-only server didn't come close to failing until RP wasn't enforced anymore. (Not saying it's the reason for it, but that it may have something to do with it.)

I'm not against having two servers again, but it's a question of whether it's worth paying for.

I just expect that if you play on a roleplay-only server, you roleplay. Other games enforce RP on RP-only servers. It's pretty much expected.

[MishkaL1138]

The problem is: I've seen people harass the hell out of someone, just because they missed one simple smiley, people who were actually trying to roleplay and ended up getting their proverbial ass handed back to them just by a simple mistake, and these guys can get out of it with virtually nothing said to or against them. Just yesterday I had to ask them to talk English in Main, and couldn't but give up when they wouldn't heed any warning or advice. I'm trying to grow a thicker skin like people like Gonger have, and become more patient, but even when I see him lose his cool it's kind of hard not to get frustrated and grit your teeth when you see these things.

Recently one of them robbed the hospital clean. Even if it's against the GM's rulings to air such things, I have no qualms in letting everyone know about this deed, motivated by a blatant disrespect towards the rule and a feeling of vengeance and pettiness. They abuse mechanics, do OOC actions and think that justifying them ICly will let them get away with it easily, just a slap of the wrist.

It says so on the server's MOTD: if you don't roleplay, don't bother. Keep it to private channels, and don't disturb the roleplayers - not only because it's a punishable offense to disturb roleplay, but also because this is a roleplaying game. You all know that I'm trying to change, but people like this group really need to start respecting these rules, or I'm going to start getting vicious again, and I'll regret it because I'll lash out on someone that won't deserve it. And while I don't condone public lynchings and harassing of players, I don't think I'm really paying much heed to what certain people say... Maybe someone will make someone else cry and leave. I don't know.

[Dilihin]

Hands down, but to be honest all mechanics really do ( and what one should expect it to do) is that they distract players from roleplaying. So we could aswell ask why there is even gameplay mechanics besides some basic functionality that helps roleplaying and creating immersion eg. placing probs? I mean, hell if you wanted to roleplay why go grinding? So obviously the answer is that while PS is first and foremost a RP, it's a game aswell.
Now, of course that does divide some people. There is those who don't roleplay at all and those who only roleplay and everything inbetween, making the distribution even. Or so would you think. Based on what you're talking, distribution is more leaning towards mechanical players at the moment.
The thing is, when we have every type of players in same server, we get larger distribution. So if we had two players instead (non rpers and rpers for example) we would have way less distribution on each server, making it easier to everyone to know who is a roleplayer and who is not. Instead of two servers, we can limit the current server aswell. So why wouldn't we enforce RP more hard? Like, why would we even really consider those who don't want to roleplay. i'm not trying to discriminate non roleplayers, but the thing is that when we have 1 server trying to serve 2 totally opposite types of players at the same time, it only ends up serving both types of players more poorly. And if the resources are not enough for two servers, i think our only chance is limiting from other end a bit. Enforcing RP is not bad  IMHO since the game is supposed to be first and foremostly  a true roleplaying game (go ahead and correct this if i'm wrong).

[Can-ned Food]

I think the nomenclature is imprecise.

Roleplaying

• storytelling
• worldbuilding
• challenging

Much like the so–called Threefold model, but better. 
Anyways, don't forget that I did once recommend you guys migrate all the Storytelling to the boards here or to a text-based interface — because the 3D environment, if it didn't support your roleplaying, was obfusticating it.  You could always do both:  let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.

[Dilihin]

You could always do both:  let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.

That would just be rididcilous, atleast i enjoy the 3d environment, if i wanted text only RP on boards i could do it way more easily elsewhere ( + board RP is booooriiiing).

[gonger]

Greetings to all!
This is a good and important thread, since it touches the foundations of PlaneShift.

On the PlaneShift website, http://www.planeshift.it/About states the following:

PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game immersed into a 3D virtual fantasy world, completely made and maintained by volunteers! Passionate RPG gamers gathered to create an open and freely available game.

There is also a link to the RP guide (http://www.planeshift.it/Roleplay%20Guide). This page does not contain any indication that RP is obligatory.

So on the one hand, nobody can say they do not know that PlaneShift is an RPG, but on the other hand there is no basis for enforcing RP in any form.

I believe that instead of enforcing we should try to convince and inform those who do not RP.
An occasional error like LOLing happens easily, and is hardly worth getting upset about, especially if it comes from a newbie. On recurrent errors, explain how emoting works, give examples, and point them to the Online Help where many predefined verbs are explained.

If this does not help, as long as non-RPers are not actually disturbing, it is often best to ignore them by not interacting with them. Consider also the use of /ignore.
In case the non-RPers are actually disturbing the RP of others (e.g. by speaking frequently OOC in main), /report them and write a short petition. Then the GMs can talk to the non-RPers in an official way.

Volki quite correctly mentioned the non-RP guilds who

invite every new player they can catch

With some, it is even worse, they try to buy every new player into their guild ("We could do so much more for you if you joined our guild."). These guilds certainly are not helping the RP purpose of the game, unfortunately they are not likely to join this discussion and to give their point of view. Maybe the RP guilds could show more actively how they RP, it could even be fun to RP some conflicts between guilds.

There is no such thing as a perfect solution. My way is to try and teach, but I understand perfectly well that not everybody has the nerve to do this. Not to mention the major pain in the @§§ caused by trying to get through to the totally hopeless cases.
Mishka mentioned that she is

trying to grow a thicker skin like people like Gonger have

I have a pretty thick skin when talking to newbies who actually listen and try to understand what PlaneShift and RP is all about. I can then literally spend hours explaining things to them.
My patience runs rather thin with people who think they know it all (and therefore do not need to learn and listen!), but know nothing. This terrible mix of arrogance and stupidity you find in some people.
Few people are good RPers at once, so what matters most IMHO is the will to learn. If that is given, the rest will come with time.
Emaline's recent initiative Intro to Roleplay is also a promising approach, and will hopefully be continued.

To sum up, we should not be fanatics in either way. Pardon small mistakes, show good example, ignore the hopeless cases, /report those who are actively disturbing.

Most important: Keep RPing and enjoying yourself. That's what we are here for!

May your blows never miss, and your spells never fail.
Gonger

[Volki]

You could always do both:  let the so–called “mechanics players” have the CrystalSpace or UE4; let the storytellers have the Communitive board.

So, give the game up to the non-roleplayers? Roleplayers are not storytellers. The point of roleplaying is to play a role. You're playing a role in an RPG. This is an RPG. Just because RPG games have become saturated with non-roleplayers doesn't mean RPGs should change.

If I'm going to write a story, I'll do it in Word. If I want to do a text-based roleplay without mechanics, I'll do it on a forum. If I want to play an online game without roleplay, I'll play an FPS or MOBA or whatever. I play PS for roleplay with text, visuals, and mechanics (it could do better at implementing the latter for roleplay, though).

[Volki]

This is going to be a double post but I think this deserves its own post.

There is also a link to the RP guide (http://www.planeshift.it/Roleplay%20Guide). This page does not contain any indication that RP is obligatory.

So on the one hand, nobody can say they do not know that PlaneShift is an RPG, but on the other hand there is no basis for enforcing RP in any form.

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.0

It is supposed to be enforced.

4) talk in Main channel is for in character conversations

By playing on the role-play server you implicitly agree to:

    * be consistent and stay true to character. (1)
    * respect PlaneShift's unique game world and always keep character chat, action, and history consistent with the known PS universe.(2)
    * interact with other players and let the actions of other characters help shape and define who our character(s) become. (3)
    * use common sense. If we know an action will upset another player in real-life, we won't do it. This includes yelling at people because they are not playing the way we think they should, insulting others, trolling, or being rude. (4)

More on IC and OOC rules: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367014#msg367014

Not following any of these rules is liable to official actions stated in the Game Sanctions.

The sanctions referred to: http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367013#msg367013

    Break a rule and a GM will /tell you to stop.
    Ignore the GM or break the rule again and you will receive an official warning.
    Players that are officially warned will receive a message in red in all of their chat windows as well as a message across the screen so it is very difficult to miss.
    Ignore the warning or break the rule again and you’ll be kicked off the server or temporarily banned.

I have seen these rules being enforced before. Years ago, but many times. It seems that the lack of enforcement has led players to believe that roleplay is not enforced. In actuality, it isn't. That is not a fault of the rules. The GMs are choosing not to enforce it. I, as a player, am not about to go complaining to other players about being OOC. That is a GM's job. As players, we can't really do anything but encourage roleplay.

There is plenty of information about roleplay within the link I shared that plainly states that roleplay and being IC is supposed to be enforced. There's no question about it. This is a strictly roleplaying game.

By the way, thanks to you guys for responding to this thread. Almost seemed like this was going to go nowhere.

[Dilihin]

I can confirm that RP has been enforced before, few years backwards (maybe 3? it's been so darn long) GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"(btw don't ask me why i have done that  ). Why don't we have this kind of enforcing anymore?

[Volki]

GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"

...That happened to me, too. xD

It used to be so strict that more than a few lines of bracketed OOC messages in main could get you muted. Which I generally support, as long as there isn't some bug or OOC situation that necessitates it.

[gonger]

Volki, you are right about the information there, but: No newbie has a chance to know this. They are not familiar with the forums. If RP is to be enforced, then this should be mentioned in an easily accessible spot, like the RP Guide.

[Volki]

They do say ignorance is not an excuse, but...

It might be a good idea to have these rules shown somewhere in the tutorial for noobs to read. And possibly put a condensed list of rules in the help window for easy reference. Even GMs /telling players to stop being OOC in main should be enough.

Whatever it is, it should be in-game. I've never seen the roleplay guide, and I only know about the rules in that thread because I've used the forums and been here a while.

[MishkaL1138]

GM told me to stop jumping on top of the laanx statue in hydlaa cause "it could break someones immersion and ruin RP"

...That happened to me, too. xD

Sarva used to be specially insistant with this, did it to me when I was jumping from roof to roof in Hydlaa. I've found mountless parkour is much more enjoyable, though.

I'm going to say it again here: PS's unofficial motto is "be the change you want to see" which means that if something's missing, step in and fill it out, if you can. If you think you can put together a few pointers, and the GMs agree with it, feel free to put it wherver you feel is more adequate.

One idea, as I see it, would be to put a few pointers regarding general character information near Abelia (sic?), another near the blacksmith lady regarding production trades, another near Ibhaar with pointers on what to become in terms of fighting (or lack of it thereof), some small guidelines about roleplaying a mage near the Dermorian witch, and then at the end by the Nolthrir girl some more advanced pointers, like the emotes and the /me, /my and /mypet commands, and a quick explanation about guilds, without making publicity. If the GMs agree.