PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Starshine on September 06, 2004, 06:07:19 am
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How strongly is rp required for this game? For example if you
don\'t rp can you still play?
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You can play if you don\'t RP, sure. But if you\'re some kind of LukeSkywalker007 person, you wont exactly have a good time here. The game is based heavily around roleplaying, and you\'ll need to be capable of thinking like that to solve quests and the like.
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if your playing a rpg you are bound to be rp :O so no worries
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I\'m hardcore rpg but have problems with rp. To shy for it I
guess so i gave up on it. But I like rgps alot. Thanks for info.
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Just because you\'re playing an RPG doesn\'t mean you\'re roleplaying, particularly in an MMORPG. Most people just increase their abilities and play with the game features, never roleplaying. (I\'m not like most people ;)) You can still play if you don\'t RP, I don\'t think you\'ll get as much fun out of the game that way but it\'s your desicion. There\'ll no doubt be OOC and IC channels for people that do or don\'t want to roleplay.
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Don\'t expect a lot of flak, expect a lot of boredom.
RP types like myself (even those who aren\'t all that good, again like myself) tend to be relatively common because there isn\'t much you can do right now.
Still, give rp a try! You might like it. ;)
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roleplaying is great its going to be so much better and easier to do when cb comes out
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I am very interessted in roleplay. But where do you meet ingame? I always can see about 20 players online. But I can\'t follow every discussion because english is not my native language :) .
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Originally posted by aza
I am very interessted in roleplay. But where do you meet ingame? I always can see about 20 players online. But I can\'t follow every discussion because english is not my native language :) .
Most of the time, they\'ll be in the temple. Of course, non-rp people will also be in the temple sometimes. Tavern will host rp occasionally. Feel free to ask if you\'d like to know.
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Im holding back on the rp untill cb when my character will be revealed!
Roleplaying is easy to pick up on, eventually it will become normal to you and you will struggle to not rp (like me).
Do not think or act like your character... BECOME your character!
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Originally posted by Elkindel
There\'ll no doubt be OOC and IC channels for people that do or don\'t want to roleplay.
I\'ll make it simple so everyone who reads this understands it to at least some extent.
No.
There are no global chats in CB, not for you, not for me. You can either use /group, /guild or /tell, and that\'s it. Those 3 have pre-requisites. You must be in a group / guild or you must have friends. /Shout has a reduced area of effect in CB (100m), and that area is still pending. It can be changed at any time, should this be necessary. A normal say works as it always did.
Now, some of you may start crying, but for gods sake, if you wish to talk about a football game that was on last night, or your current favorite movies, you have so many other ways to do it than ingame. Please use those, and don\'t request more OOC chat possibilities.
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Originally posted by Elkindel
There\'ll no doubt be OOC and IC channels for people that do or don\'t want to roleplay.
Now, some of you may start crying, but for gods sake, if you wish to talk about a football game that was on last night, or your current favorite movies, you have so many other ways to do it than ingame. Please use those, and don\'t request more OOC chat possibilities.
*Cries* But seriously RPing can be done so easily the trick is so to keep in role and keep going >.> Or so I was told ^^
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lol gronomist, when they say OOC, I mean they mean talking about the game itself, but without roleplaying, something like \"omfg we\'re gonna kill that dragon and get lots of XP wanna hep us ? I\'ll give you my 2d6+3 sword\", not totally off topic discussion ^^
Anyway, I\'ll try to roleplay, but I\'ve never been really good at it, and since I can\'t speak english that well it will be even harder for me :-/
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Originally posted by BlueScreenJunky
lol gronomist, when they say OOC, I mean they mean talking about the game itself, but without roleplaying, something like \"omfg we\'re gonna kill that dragon and get lots of XP wanna hep us ? I\'ll give you my 2d6+3 sword\", not totally off topic discussion ^^
I doubt you\'d be shouting that for everyone to hear.
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BlueScreenJunky, it\'s a great advantage not to speak english well (like me :) indeed you can pretend to be a stranger and you can make yourself a background that doesn\'t need to stick to hydlaa\'s history.
it\'s the advantage with rp, whenever something bother you in real life, you just find a way to make it interesting online :)
RP power !!!!!! :)
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RP is a must for me, I love it. Have for a long time.
I can\'t wait for the days when a computer RPG has the same freedom as pen and paper RPGs, too bad it\'ll likely never happen.
If you want to talk OOC, ie. not RP, then do it, if there are no chat windows for it, use what is available, if there are no alternatives, people can\'t complain. You can\'t force someone to RP...
Syzerian, I\'m not sure about that, some people lack the imaginative traits needed to RP. It\'s not for everyone.
OT: Syzerian, is that another Legend of Dragoon sig? They look really good.
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Originally posted by Adeli
If you want to talk OOC, ie. not RP, then do it, if there are no chat windows for it, use what is available, if there are no alternatives, people can\'t complain. You can\'t force someone to RP...
Where is the point?
Granted, RolePlaying is not for everyone. Many people cannot seem to enjoy it, or get the reigns of their characters as some others do. Understandable, and perfectly fine.
But tackling a RolePlaying game when you do not like the RolePlaying genre? Where is the point? It is a rather masochistic behaviour, because you know you will not have a good time.
Abstracting yourself from RolePlaying in every form and sense when playing an RPG, is comparable to joining a server of Counter-Strike and not be willing to pull the trigger. Let us see how much you last before the players vote you out of the session.
If you do not want to RolePlay, do not play an RP game.
As easy as eating pie.
I have been told \"But the game will have less players!\", or \"PlaneShift is for everyone!\".
Firstly, yes, we would have a more compact group of people. Should everyone follow the \"This way or the highway\" suggestion, most of the players exclusively seeking leveling up while talking of how cool is your new car, or how hot Joe\'s girlfriend is, then a vast amount of gamers would not step foot on our server. Nonetheless, focusing on quality before quantity usually leads to satisfactory results.
Secondly, PlaneShift is not for everyone. It is a RolePlaying game, thus it is for RolePlayers. Every game aims to please a specialised range of customers, it is impossible to try to keep them all happy. Unsurprisingly so, not everyone will be happy. Only those to whom the game is being prepared for (ie: RolePlayers, if you got lost somewhere ;)) are taken into account when the features and characteristics of the games are designed. Not action gamers, not simulator fans, not sports addicts, not point and click adventurers. RolePlayers.
And that is the way I see it.
- Golbez
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I agree that you can\'t force someone to roleplay.
It will be interesting to see how CB turns out with respect to roleplay. I won\'t be surprised if I\'ll be confronted by all sorts of people.
I\'m not particularly worried about who roleplays and who doesn\'t and I\'m not about to force my views on others and in the process drain the fun from a world of possibililty by imposing my set of ideals and rules on it.
Instead when I\'ll play I\'ll play as me through this character, he\'ll have my personality as best as I can type it ;) and that will be modified by my appearence and strengths as a character in game no doubt.
I\'m surprised many roleplayers insist on a background story rather then \"life begins when I first played\". Instead they seem more comfortable hearing the same old over glorified stories designed to be interesting but sadly lacking substance. eg. \"I was given uber strength by \". Its my belief too much information can be a bad thing.
I\'d be more inclined to suggest people who want to roleplay concentrate less on character roleplay and more on creating a world atmosphere. If you can draw others into a planeshift \'mythos\' then you\'ll find a happy balance between those of us stuck in the reality and those completely roleplay.
Anyway thats touched on some of the issues as I see them, thanks for reading.
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Ot: The Holy Scribe posts! *bows in reverence*
Hopefully, planeshift\'s uniqueity (new word :P) Will keep generic stories at bay, however you have to realise that you start the game as an adult, so to build from there means either a case of amnesia, or being created \"magically\".
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Monketh, thats very true we will start as adults.
My personal preference is those ordinary stories that are interesting; as opposed to roleplayed stories that are made to be interesting. Thats why I think the most interesting stories will occur in game while interacting with others.
Thats not to say all the stories I\'ve read/heard are bad or over the top; some are true gems. However I\'ve spoken to a few players and read \'interesting\' stories, alas the characters in the story are just cardboard cutouts and not unique. In many respects I can\'t see why many of us would be from humble beginnings, and work from there.
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The best backgrounds are those that are kept relatively realistic, adding magic and intrigue but not at ridiculous levels.
I do not know why many relate a \"Background story\" to exagerated and exceedingly hyped up characters that, albeit in the past where known to hunt dragons for fun are now having a hard time killing a single aggressive giant rat.
I never said to create an intricate, complex, and awe inspiring background.
I recall one of the characters I enjoyed the most came from a small, forgotten and peaceful coastal village, and the only aspect in which he was different from the regular people was that he had the ability to \"Lay on hands\". ie: He cured minor wounds by touch.
Certainly, the point of the game is to RolePlay the present. And that I will not argue. But the \"present\" of the character is influenced by his experiences from the past. How he was raised. Under which beliefs. What he was taught is \"good\" and \"bad\". And if he has any characteristical traits such as a crippled hand, or a missing eye, or a tendency to dislike a certain race, I believe there should be a rational explanation. And in order to come up with that, the player must at least come up with the general silhouette of the character\'s past story.
Do not dismiss background stories as being \"over the top\". In responsible RolePlaying, this is hardly ever the case.
- Golbez
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I agree with Golbez it doesnt make sense to be all powerfull when your skills are barely improved i think all people should stick with there storie and add on as they go along. If your storie says your an expert at someting like cooking i think you should lvl up that more than any other trait. Roleplaying is easy and really fun if you do it right. ;)
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I\'m hoping Golbez second post wasn\'t reply to me... (having posted between the two posts) if it was he didn\'t read my posts none too well.
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Grono, I was hoping there would be an OOC channel. You know there will be powergamers that care nothing about roleplay, there will be people that play just to annoy everyone else, there will be trolls. Not having an OOC channel just means everyone will have to listen to it.(Unless regulations on what is allowed in the area channel are strict) And yes, I know there wont be a global chat, but there will be an area chat.
The area channel concept is good, except for in town, busy market places, popular spots. Places where you\'ll get people out there shouting \"S3lling 1337 knight arm0r!\" or something similar... *twitches at his own use of \'leet\'* An OOC channel just provides a sort of filter, so the rest of us don\'t have to listen to it.
Edit: True, I suppose it could work with no ooc channel, existing public channels could be moderated to keep them free of ooc
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On the flipside, the mere existence of the OOC channel encourages people who are S3lling 1337 knight arm0r, since they can\'t be criticised for doing that. It also provides them with the technology to network effectively with other leet doodz who use OOC. The absence of such a channel makes it clear that OOCness is not encouraged in any area of PS.
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Yes, but can you truly enforce that?
As a free game, in 3D, with combat, it would be nearly impossible to prevent a stream of constant Out-of-Character chat. The Leet Doodz will come, unless thwarted by boredom, which is not effective in Planeshift.
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I have a question, a very simple question that I hope you can all answer. It relates to this phrase...
\"If you join an RPG and do not roleplay, you will not have fun\"
Who says this is true? Do one of you know what every person in the world with access to an internet-enabled computer likes and doesn\'t like?
Think about it... So many people do it, surely there is a reason. In fact, RPers are a minority in RPG games. These \'Leet Doodz\' as you dub them, must have some reason to play in such numbers.
Do not presume to decide what people like, everyone is different, what is repetitive and mundane for one person, could be thrilling and exciting for the next.
You can NOT force anyone to RP, no other game has managed it. If people don\'t like RP that is their choice, complain if you want, but my advice is grow up. It\'s not just your game.
I myself like RP, I have said so, others do not, that is their perogative and I will not criticise their decision.
Golbez as much as I respect you and your views on RP, in this you are wrong. People can have fun without RPing in an RPG. Look at Baldur\'s Gate or NWN, are you telling me that only hardcore RPers play these games? I know that is not so. Icewind Dale, a famous RPG has the most linear RP element, it is truly combat based. People like this, not everyone, but many.
If you want to RP, good on you! If you just want to play, have fun and enjoy the game. You can\'t say non RPers will be bored, if that\'s true, you are saying the game is little more than a roleplaying chat-room or IRC channel, which is not what the game is. There will be gameplay involved yes? Not just a large room filled with people carry out alternate lives. Think about it. NonRP is impossible to prevent, and you have no right to try.
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Of course a lot of people manage to have fun without using the game as they are suppose to (my sister have fun trying to click the mines of winmine as fast as she can... *despair*). But as soon as PS is RP oriented I think it will be easier to have fun RPing. And that\'s the aim of it, allowing people who want to RP to have fun in a MMORPG.
Now if people manage to have fun without RPing, good for them, I\'m sure noone will blame them, even the pure RPers we seem to have here (I didn\'t give any name so dont get mad at me please :) )
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The game will be populated by people who play for the sake of getting the best gear and killing the best mobs, and there will be the ones who enjoy roleplaying while doing the same thing (and all the weird people who bake cakes or mine ores... Urgh..). :)
Nothing that the devs ever do will stop this from happening, and it is like this in all games, be that EverQuest or... whatever you choose. Roleplayers say powergamers are weird, and vice versa, and thus we have a happily functional gaming environment full of all kinds of people with opposite ideas and expectations, which you also find when walking down your favorite road or when shopping in the nearby supermarket. We can\'t get rid of the others, so we\'ll have to adapt to them being there. However, that doesn\'t mean we should make life any easier for them. With no ways of publicly telling the whole server that you happen to be selling your Rusty Used Torch +1, people will realise they can just as well go to the most crowded area in the server and shout it out there instead. Thus we create market places where selling your gear is fun and interesting, and where people who have no intention of buying/selling anything go afk or don\'t come near at all.
After all, the goal of any game is to \"win\", no matter if you are an intriguing roleplayer or a dumbass powerplayer. You always want to be the one saving the princess or killing the dragon, you just do it in diffrent ways. Putting people together might just make it easier for you to do just those things, and it ensures you that there is always someone to do it with. If you don\'t wish to gather up with roleplayers/powerplayers, you\'re free not to do so. In fact, if you just ignore all the people you don\'t like, it will be just like you are all alone on the server with only your friends. Wonderful, isn\'t it?
Now, I\'ll just point this out once more to make sure people know exactly what is going on. If you wish to address a large group of people with a wide question, which will probably lead to a very big debate/arguement, feel free to come into #PlaneShift on either freenode (dev. chat) or quakenet (fan chat). Plenty of people to argue with there. However, if your interests are to tell a story of how you killed the dragon and saved the princess, and then get shouted/booed at for being a bad storyteller, and afterwards getting kicked out of the tavern, your business is ingame. Shouting useless informations about your smelly socks (or whatever) in crowded areas can most likely cost you your ability to shout at all, or if the GM is in a very nasty mood, you wont be able to communicate at all, period. PlaneShift GMs will be very protective of the game, and you shouldn\'t try to argue with them because after all, they can shut you up while you can\'t do anything to them, especially not after they\'ve shut you up. Then we have an example, if a GM tells you how to do something right, rather than doing in wrong, and another GM says you\'re doing something wrong now, you can just say \"He/She said so!\" and you\'ll have a great show of two GMs arguing and killing eachother a few times until they agree on who\'s right (usually the one with the most authority is right).
Right... I\'m getting a bit off topic, but nonetheless. Behave properly and you wont get in trouble. Ignore others if they\'re annoying and you\'ll be fine and... there wont be any global server chatting. At least not in PS. :)
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Then we have an example, if a GM tells you how to do something right, rather than doing in wrong, and another GM says you\'re doing something wrong now, you can just say \"He/She said so!\" and you\'ll have a great show of two GMs arguing and killing eachother a few times until they agree on who\'s right (usually the one with the most authority is right).
Great! could that lead to a kind of gods fight or wont the GMs have the possibly to throw lightning at each other ? ;)
Well if there are enough GMs to prevent any stupid behaviors than it\'ll be great, will there be a way to call for a GM (for instance if someone is shouting \"haha who wants to mary me?\" in the tavern for an hour and if I cant see any GM, will I be able to call a GM to shut him up ?) ?
PS: just a little request, could I have a list of the GMs I\'ll be able to corrupt ? :D
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Originally posted by Gronomist
or if the GM is in a very nasty mood, you wont be able to communicate at all, period.
Hehe a chance for a player to roleplay as a mute.
Anyway it sounds good, hopefully the GM\'s will be strict, fair and on call :).
The GM\'s won\'t be able to try to govern how we play though right? I mean within reason they couldn\'t say ohh.. I don\'t know... make us rp because they are passionate about it in their personal beliefs?.
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For starters, I never said powerleveling or zero RolePlaying is \"boring\". Not once I claimed that in these few posts.
Although I coincidentially find those activities to be lacking in interest, I do point out that it is my personal opinion.
I am a punctilious and meticulous person. I do find a difference between \"X is boring.\" and \"*I* think that X is boring\".
To answer your two questions, Adeli (Because they were two, not one ;)): I speak from personal experience in online gaming. I have formed part of many communities and have picked up a bit of empiric knowledge here and there. So I claim what I view as true. I do not and will never declare that my side of the story is an universal truth. I am aware of the possibility of being very, very wrong, because there is an infinite number of variables involved that the human mind cannot possibly consider all at once.
I then answer the second question. No, I know not what every person in the world with access to the online gaming experience wants or enjoys. It is a pointless rhetoric question, because nobody does. I do not know, neither do you, or even the staff. Therefore if you planned on using that simple question to solidify your version, it merely backfired.
Now, back on topic and having cleared up a statement that I never said, nor implied.
There is a huge difference, and anyone can notice it straight-away, in playing a game like Baldur\'s Gate or NeverWinter Nights in single-player mode and multi-player.
I never had the experience, myself, not counting with the necessary equipment to play in multiplayer mode without repeatedly banging my head against the desk due to the frustration of suffering from such a sluggy connection.
I have heard good critics about NWN servers in which if you do not roleplay, you are booted. People who want to barge in and kill everything in sight with their level 19 barbarians are not allowed. And sure, they do not have fun.
Then again, the server is not aimed to please them. The -game itself- is not aimed to please those who want action, action, action and more action. And Baldur\'s Gate is the same way.
The fact that you have to read a +200 pages manual if you want to exploit the game and master it pretty much hints you how elitist the makers are about their clients.
I can tell you with relative precision why we see the vast amount of powerlevellers and non-RPers in an RPG (There will always be an exception to the rule, I am talking through a generalised concept here).
MMORPGs tend to offer the freedom of movement, exploration and a sensation of \"I can do whatever I want and the computer won\'t force me to anything!\".
This considerable liberty is lacking in many action games and shooters. They generally offer limited movements throghout the levels. How many times have we sighed in disappointment because a door was \"conveniently\" barred and prevented our advancement? No matter how many rockets we fire in that direction, it will not open.
This is one of the reasons Morrowind was so acclaimed by those who enjoyed rapid hack and slashing. It merged the open plot of a RolePlaying game with outbursts of solo dungeon crawling in which you whacked and slashed and sliced and chopped and stabbed and pierced everything in sight.
This mixture of kinetical independence plus a combat system appeals to action gamers. And truth be told, I seriously doubt many of them have ever tried out a real RolePlaying session.
They may be having heaps of fun. But was the game intended for them? Is a MMORPG aimed to please those who do not RP? I am not saying it is not.
But for the sake of honesty, if you are not going to enforce RolePlaying whatsoever, remove the \"RP\" from MMORPG.
RolePlaying is RolePlaying is RolePlaying. If you are in a RolePlaying game, is it so illogical to expect a player to RolePlay? Am I \"In the wrong\" for being so idealist?
What are we doing wrong that in graphic-heavy games the players simply cannot bring themselves to RolePlay? Why should it be so different to a \"chat room\" or a \"text game\", where you MUST RolePlay or you face the consequences of ruining the atmosphere for the other players?
The fact that \"the game that shall not be named for it provokes copious hemorrhages in the ears of the audience\", Nexus, or commercially successful EverQuest and other plethora of alike names do not offer a safe RolePlaying environment does not mean that PlaneShift has to follow the very same steps.
Non RP is not impossible to prevent. It is merely difficult. And it requires a lot of patience and educating the players in how they are expected to handle the game.
You are correct. I have no right in banning, kicking or preventing non-RPers from playing as they see fit. If I were the maker of the game, or a staff member with the consent of the project\'s leader to do so, I would have the holy powers to decide what is allowed and what is not. But I am just a player. And I will always be just a player.
Aside from this, though, I do have the right to attempt to enforce RolePlaying to the best of my abilities. If other players have the right to disregard RolePlaying in a RolePlaying game, and to encourage their equals to do the same, then why I do not possess the right to regard RolePlaying and encourage my equals to have fun the way I do?
I will say this: I do not appreciate people bursting in and talking of how the Cubs will beat the world series when my character is having a conversation with an acquaintance about -his- daily life.
I will admit that such scenarios are disappointing and displeasing because they oppose the very premise and esence of the game (The Cubs and the World Series do not exist in Yliakum, why would a Klyros be speaking of it? Oh, right! This is just a RolePlaying game, it means they can do and say what they want.)
When I am told \"Think about. It can\'t be done.\", what I truly think about is not \"Bummer, you are right. It can\'t be done!\". Instead, I realise \"Gee...The gaming community itself obliterated RolePlaying.\"
And it is a terrible loss.
- Golbez
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Originally posted by Adeli
Do not presume to decide what people like, everyone is different, what is repetitive and mundane for one person, could be thrilling and exciting for the next.
You can NOT force anyone to RP, no other game has managed it. If people don\'t like RP that is their choice, complain if you want, but my advice is grow up. It\'s not just your game.
Au contraire mon ami.
The developers of the game can limit the game to whom they deem acceptable to use it; this means that if they decide that only rolepayers may play their game, they are free to enforce that whim. The internet is not free, nor does it have true free speech. The internet is owned, and what is on it is owned (in most cases). The owners of the data on the internet and the methods for distributing that data may do as they please, so long as it does not violate the law. If the developers of a game decide to outlaw rolepayers, they can. Things like race are one of the few limitations.
And you see, it is just the Dev\'s game. They are sharing it with us.
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I personally take offence from people who are ?All RP or The Boot? it just isn?t socially acceptable behavior, If we were going to have a extremely all RP atmosphere they would not have any combat, all it would be is a large chat room with a lot of chars with allot of different animations, that?s all you need for RP you can imagine the rest. I personally can get board with RP something?s, maybe it just I haven?t RP?d with the right people but it is probably just not enough stuff to do in Planeshift as of now.
I have a theory on why ?1337? people exist?.
It is all because of ?RPG? games like Final Fantasy & such. I am talking about the first ones like FFmq(1)-5. Many people played these ?RPG?s not for the story but for the fact that it is fun to beet up monsters with the newly acquired mithril sword of 178 damage. I personally liked the story-line of the old RPG?s & then later acquired a liking to collecting the most powerful summon & knowing that nothing could stand in my way as long as had enough mana! But about 75% way through the game I realize that I am just constantly pressing menu: ?Down-A-(select spell)-A? & then boom, the same old fire/ice effect flashes the screen & all enemies are down. Then it I just a boar between segments of story & hack-n-slash?n?.
The problem of a ?mmoRPG? is that it can?t really be like the RPG of old in the fact that most have no set story, main Chars & long dialog between the main Char & the other Chars. There can be no ?One Main Char? because there are @ least 1000 of them. In classic RPG games there is usually a set story & path the Char takes, more like a movie then something you can actually change. It is much more complicated when you through in more then 2-4 possible players @ 1 time. Allot of RPG fans are to lazy to actually make up a story of there own, they are to used to the story being fed to them like it was a movie. That is why allot of them ignore the RP atmosphere & just go hack-n-slash?n all over the place with other people who like to do the same thing, making friendships & inadvertently in the process annoying the living daylights out of people who don?t think the same way as they do. (This is one reason why I?d like cut-scenes in mmoRPG?s, it is something I feel is long overdue, most of the RPG?s had them, that is one thing I think they are missing, much more amusing story-wise.)
I personally am on a neutral ground on this matter, I think too much of ether Hack-n-slash?n or All RP is a boring thing. I enjoy RP much better when I?m Hack-n-slashing or doing something other then just sitting there typing:
/me takes a drink from his mug
?I?m all out, anyone have a keg??
Someone gives you a keg of beer
?yesterday I fought 3 Montags with only my bow?
Someone: ?what?s a Montag??
Someone: ?I want to summon Montag, what do they look like??
Etc??.
I think it is much more fun when you are actually doing something then standing around & that is why I think we have combat, many enjoy RPG?s for the combat, others for the story, that is why there is this division of people who all can be called hard core RPGer?s.
Many strictly RP people tend to forget about the G, it is a Game after all?
The #1 definition of ?Game? in the dictionary is ?An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime? I think some people (myself included) take them a little to seriously especially when other people are involved. :D
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Difference between roleplayers and powerlevellers:
Roleplayers are guys who read books, watch movies, or even just imagine worlds beyond the mundane, ordinary expected. They want to be part of something more, thus, they roleplay, and have fun.
Powerlevellers on the other hand don\'t imagine that they can be part of such a world. They have no clue it exists. Powerlevellers see this as just a game, and not a world unto itself. Thus, because their view is limited, they approach this game as any other game, they level up to beat the boss and chat on aim (or in the game in this case) (Stereotype ->)about the homework they need to finish for tommorow\'s class. (<- Stereotype.)
This is not a problem just in this online society. This is not a problem just in the online world. This is a problem in the world at large. There are those who can imagine, and there are those who can be mindless robots, doing what society expects them to do.
There are two types of people in this world. Those that can imagine are the ones that I\'d like to converse with. Those that need to rely on society for their topic of conversation, for their ideological crutch, I do not want to converse with.
Now I know why Aendar, Gronomist, Kada, and all the pre-AB players, no, let me correct that, friends, reminisce about the \'Good Old Days\'. They found people who they could share their ideas and imagination with. That is the best kind of fun that I know of.
So if you see me online, now you know whether or not you would want to talk to me :).
Sorry for the rant/pointless post/whatever. Thought I\'d share my 2 cents.
Now for a real continuation of the topic :).
I personally take offence from people who are ?All RP or The Boot? it just isn?t socially acceptable behavior, If we were going to have a extremely all RP atmosphere they would not have any combat, all it would be is a large chat room with a lot of chars with allot of different animations, that?s all you need for RP you can imagine the rest. I personally can get board with RP something?s, maybe it just I haven?t RP?d with the right people but it is probably just not enough stuff to do in Planeshift as of now.
Yes, I agree Zeraph. What we all want to do here is to relax and unwind. But you don\'t have to go around barging in on people, beating up newbies, harrasing people on chat channels, or any of that stuff to have fun here. Talk in private with a group if you don\'t want to roleplay. Find a solitary room to talk about stuff that isn\'t public. That\'s what someone in RL would do anyway ;).
The #1 definition of ?Game? in the dictionary is ?An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime? I think some people (myself included) take them a little to seriously especially when other people are involved.
Definitely Agree here. Just want to point out that powerlevellers here tend to ruin the fun of others. It\'s just common courtesy people. Respect towards your peers.
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Originally posted by Zeraph
(This is one reason why I?d like cut-scenes in mmoRPG?s, it is something I feel is long overdue, most of the RPG?s had them, that is one thing I think they are missing, much more amusing story-wise.)
The question is how to implement them. You could always have your community artists draw one up, then move things around in flash. (relic style! :) )Then you\'d get voice actors from the community to voice parts, and...
Alternatively, you could have a \"Cinematic Mode\", supposing you had enough Emotes, where the dialog would run as subtitles. The camera could be controlled by the player, and the scene recorded...
We need a wishlist thread for this now! :P
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May I be allowed to sound a bit frustrated?
I never said combat, magics and action scenes in PlaneShift should be neglected or removed. I said it over and over again:
These systems are tools to reinforce the RolePlaying experience!
I am against hack and slashing for the sake of it. I am against powerlevelling with the objective of being the coolest dude around. I am against camping for \"XP and loot\".
I am not against a battle system. I never was. I never will.
But, if we are in a truly reasonable RolePlaying environment, there -should- be a reason behind all of that monster bashing and sword flailing.
The character\'s training may require dangerous sessions in a tenebrous cave. Or his job has as a must the domination of weapon techniques. Or there he just saw his nemesis and decided to challenge him to a duel (A feature that would be most interesting). Perhaps he is a criminal and has no mentor, thus he must train all by himself in order not to be whacked by the upholders of the law. A barfight may have arised an argument and the two combatants decide to \"Take it outside\".
And the amount of possibilities is as infinite as the players\' imagination. This not only goes for fighters and sorcerers. Any sort of crafter or skill-based character should have a reason behind their skill raises.
Suppose we have politicians in PlaneShift, which would be a nice addition as well. Some people do like to RolePlay being the guy with all that power at his disposal. They would be too occupied to be a swordmaster, or the best weaponsmith around. Perhaps he would be a bit proficient in one or the other, but never the best. Same goes for merchants, and traders. They -can- train, but let us face it, would they be any better than the guy who has dedicated his whole life to the sword?
However, this all has more to do with the skill system, about which I have some ideas but shall leave them for another thread.
In conclusion, and since I am too weary to elaborate any further for I frankly believe it will amount to nothing, this is what I expect from a MMORPG:
- RolePlaying, obviously. Enforced by staff and players alike.
- The sensible use of the battle system as a tool at the players\' disposal in order to RolePlay.
- Moderators and Guides that counsel people that are new to RolePlaying, so they may get the ropes necessary to hold their own in an enforced environment.
That is all, basically. I hope to have cleared up some misconceptions I seem to have picked up here and there.
- Golbez
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I would definitely not like a strict RP policy, one reason why many people play mmorpg?s is to make friends. You usually need friends with common interests, but you will not be able to find people with common interests if you are not aloud to talk about OOC stuff. Actually I think there should be a OOC channel or a way to connect Planeshift to a IRC channel such as the Planeshift Fan channel so you can find people with common interest other then Planeshift. So if someone is chatting OOC stuff & bothering everyone by shouting it, the GM?s can point them to the IRC channel & tell them to talk about it there. (Sort of like The Hydlaa Plaza sub-forum?)
I love making friends in-game, the other mmorpg?s I?ve played that were more power-leveling oriented then RP I found friends that were the same level as me. I didn?t find a single person doing RP? but I still found a friend that logged on @ the same time as I did, since there wasn?t a RP atmosphere however we went are separate ways after the game got boring?
I would think true power-levelers would ignore everyone else & not bother to chat on OOC, but anyway, there will be a place to chat about RL so it doesn?t bother other people. As long as they keep it there? if it does encourage power-leveling & hack-n-slashers I really could care less, as long as they keep it in the OOC channel? that way you can always turn the ooc channel off if you like.
As for implementing cut-scenes, we can do it like they did in the old RPG?s were they had a text box & the players & NPC?s had animations & walked in certain places, not really rendered movie scenes & your wouldn?t even have to have voice actors, even though that would be nice. (Maybe way later on when the sound devs get bored?)
Cut-scenes could be all client controlled, so only 1 client would actually see the animations & that way you can have multiple people accessing the cut-scenes @ one time without having to wait for the other person to view it, otherwise people would have to stand in line for cut-scenes lol.
Btw, I can?t understand 1337. If I wanted to speak code I?d make it up myself & only teach it to people I know.
I wouldn\'t mind a no-leet policy because it wouldn\'t affect me...
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Instead of writing endless posts you could write really good backgrounds for everyone :) you just need to write 1 or 2 thousands of background this way we will be able to choose one :D
Edit : hehe cool, I\'m a forum member now :) no more a newbie :) ouch does that mean that I can\'t say stupid things anymore ?
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Originally posted by leji
Instead of writing endless posts you could write really good backgrounds for everyone :) you just need to write 1 or 2 thousands of background this way we will be able to choose one :D
Edit : hehe cool, I\'m a forum member now :) no more a newbie :) ouch does that mean that I can\'t say stupid things anymore ?
Of course not, we forum members have been saying stupid things for years! :P
Take as an example the Cabal, or Annah, or FESFESFES, or Whemyfield, or ... *continues to list people for 4-5 minutes*
I doubt anyone would just pick one, people have a habit of not playing characters written by someone else.
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ooc:
So, PS will be a RPG. Good
Can someone tell me when?
GMs are the solution. Fine
Aren\'t GMs implemented in MB already?
Each time I talk about RPing, I recieve the same answer :\"this is only a pre-alpha dude.\"
Whatever CB will be (alpha or beta) it will still not the complete PS with RP in it...
You know, I am getting old, so I hope it will be possible to RP.
\"it is possible\", says the crowd, \"just use /unshout, and RP with you friends\"
ok, so newcomers will only see a non-RP world and if by chance a RPer arrives he will leave disgusted, following the ones I called friends and who already did.
So please before the complete version of PS, can you tell me how to RP alone?
/me mutters to himself: Lots of ooc shouts today
/me says: indeed
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The reason I prefer a blance, is mostly due to my location. Most games I play are not very big in Australia, thus there are few people that I am often online with. I occasionally make friends in games, then lose them after not being on at the same time for months. This makes finding an RP group difficult, and thus the need for a non-rp element is evident to me.
Roleplaying alone sounds terrible. I would hate to have to resort to that.
Oh Golbez... It was technically one question posed to readers, and the other question you labelled \'pointless rhetoric\'... was about the first question, an emphasis as it were, and It was not a rhetorical question. You answered it yourself; No. Nobody knows... That\'s the answer to that question. Very simple, pointless perhaps, but simple and there is an answer.
Also, your pure RP world would, as Zeraph and I pointed out, have large chat logs of characters in a blank room. True RP does not need actual monsters or anything such as that. You are trying to turn this game, into tabletop D&D.
OT: Whatever happened to Whemyfield?
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If your playing an RPG most likely your RP\'ing in some form its just that you probably not realizing it. Every step you take, every monster youfight, every person you talk to is considered RP\'ing because your assuming the role of someone else in this case it\'s your game character/avatar.
reply to the OT: Whemyfield was banned. I think its because not really of all his spam but mostly because about 98% of his replies were flames.
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Tangential to the actual point of the thread, your question and the elaboration of such was, in all true and clarity, rhetorical.
Rhetoric being \"the discourse that appeals to persuade one\'s point of view\". Something all of us attempt to do when defending our own version and putting forward a rebutal after finding a discrepancy between our line of thought and that of the other person.
It was pointless because, albeit it was effective in pointing out that my speech is not universally valid, it is also mutually exclusive for it casts a shadow of doubt upon your own words. The reality is, we are all in the dark about which one is the precise \"Truth\". And when all the variables and sum of individualities are put into the equation, it all gets worse.
This all is a quick analysis of the logic of the way things were phrased. It is, in soothe, pure and abstract mathematics, but it is applicable to the circumstances.
And having a relative involved in law studies, I am a bit aware of how some debates prevail over others by the explotation of this sort of tools and phrases. It is constructive criticism, nothing more. I rather enjoy this sort of discussions. :)
The reason I prefer a blance, is mostly due to my location. Most games I play are not very big in Australia, thus there are few people that I am often online with. I occasionally make friends in games, then lose them after not being on at the same time for months. This makes finding an RP group difficult, and thus the need for a non-rp element is evident to me.
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The answer may not be precisely fair or pleasant. But living in such a time zone complicates one\'s progress in not only online RolePlaying games, but also other kinds of forms of entertainment.
It would be quite interesting if the staff made a search of good moderators and members from all the different time zones and regions. Whereas doing so in the States and Europe may be much simpler, it is not impossible to have staff members in more oriental regions, Australia, and basically cover all the major time zones with potential players.
Having a team that tends to the needs of each and every time zone will be quite encouraging for those players of \"unconventional regions\", so to speak, to get hooked into the game.
Moreso, the players themselves have as a bit of a task to recruit other peers in order to form a bigger group to play with.
Also, your pure RP world would, as Zeraph and I pointed out, have large chat logs of characters in a blank room. True RP does not need actual monsters or anything such as that. You are trying to turn this game, into tabletop D&D.
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Would it?
First of all, let me clarify that I have absolutely zero experience in table top D&D. Not only was the booming sensation of table top D&D games over, it never really reached Latin America thus I did not hear of it until it was actually too late. I was never capable of forming a party of friends with similar interests.
Therefore, albeit I have read D&D rules and am no stranger to them, I have never put them to practice. I never played and even less GM\'ed a session. It would be fair enough to say that I barely know how an afternoon playing table top RP is like, although I am aware of what they entail.
That said, if my views would push PlaneShift towards that kind of style, it is not voluntarily or consciously so.
Nonetheless, since when is RolePlaying exclusively about sitting down and talking about daily life? Since when is it limited to \"blank rooms\" (Whatever those may be. Even in text games no rooms are blank, I doubt that would be the case in PlaneShift)? Whoever said that combat and RolePlaying could not go hand in hand?
I just stated that mindless, unrealistic or purposeless hacking and slashing is what I, personally, frown upon. And being the way I am, and since the boards offer me the chance to make it public, I voice -why- I frown upon it.
The point I try to make is that computer gaming gives us many advantages and offers a tremendous potential. We have a visually objective game world that albeit is not left to the imagination of the player (Which always allows for their minds to work at a more elevated level, permitting a lot of unexpected events), it gives us all a solid ground to play on. Automatised combat and magic system releases us from the headaches of character sheets and die rolling, saving throws and intrincate calculations. We can move and act and perform in real time, instead of taking turns.
This, I believe, permits us more freedom to RolePlay. Be it combat by hunting down a criminal due to our character\'s job/belief/vendetta/etc, training in magic since it is our character\'s way of life, or getting drunk at the tavern for our character has a little addiction to spiced ale.
It is true that RolePlaying does not need monsters. It also does not need a combat system, or items, or NPCs, or whatever element you can think of. But, we -do- have these elements (Or will do, eventually), so why not make use of them to RolePlay?
I am well aware that all of this is the staff\'s decision. I am more than cognisant about how the majority prevails in terms of what they want. Therefore if I am a minority and cannot seem to enjoy the game as it is or my opinion is dismissed by the populace, I will have no other choice but to pack my bags and seek new grounds. It has happened to me before in other communities, and I have come to accept it.
We will cross that bridge later, I suppose.
- Golbez
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So you are saying that even power-levelers & 1337(leet) people are RP?ing?
Anyway, I think we need a balance between serious 100% RP & having Fun with friends. :D
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Originally posted by Kuiper7986
If your playing an RPG most likely your RP\'ing in some form its just that you probably not realizing it. Every step you take, every monster youfight, every person you talk to is considered RP\'ing because your assuming the role of someone else in this case it\'s your game character/avatar.
Not quite 100% correct.
I can take as many steps as I want through my character, fight dozens of hordes of monsters, and explore the world as much as I want.
But if every time my character speaks he does so out of context (ie: Shouting about selling a \"Sword of l337-ness +9\" or discussing about the last movie I have seen), it is not roleplaying. You are just using the game as a glorified chat room with some gameplay elements.
RolePlaying means assuming an imaginary life for a few moments, controlling a character that does not exist (and very importantly, is not -you-), in a world that is unreal, and living an artificial life.
That is why talking l337 is not RolePlaying. That is why Runescape is not RolePlaying. That is why a huge number of MMORPG players are not truly RolePlaying.
- Golbez
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What game features could specifically encourage roleplaying? While we want more than basic hack and slashing, that is what happens at the \"game mechanic\" level and it is in some way up to the players to roleplay.
The impression I get is that PS GM\'s will be encouraged to discourage obvious breaking of roleplay boundaries & general stupidity; hopefully this will make an environment that attracts people who are willing to flesh out their characters beyond what their skill points and inventory have to say :)
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I don;t see whats wrong with not being a RPer. I am some of the times, other times I don\'t feel like being something I\'m not...
People should be allowed to talk how they want, no matter what its about (to an extent, no ToS violations, of course!)! The only real rule should be no 1337 speak. People that have bad english(which there a few, as we have already seen this early) will be exceptions though, mainly becasue you can still tell if they are trying to speak properly or are just being stupid.
That\'s my two cents, and I think it is the only thing that will actually work. It allows anyone to play, even powerlevelers, but still keeps the chat clean. Just having proper grammar should be enough...
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Usually if you RP with someone for a while ether the conversation gets repetitive or stupid or drifts to ooc stuff. Sure you can keep it going for maybe an hour but after that there really isn?t much to say, if you find someone you like RP?ing with you sort of want to get to know there ooc self, I doubt many of the famous ?couples? of PS never talked about ooc stuff after a while?
mmoRPg?s are very different from the classic RPg video games, I never played DnD or other tabletop RP games you play with other people. RPG video games basically fed the story to us, not we can talk to people while making up are own story.
It really is for me a way to meet new People & make friendships not really a way to meet new made up Characters.
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an excellent guide to RPing in MMORPGs can be found here:
http://www.avlis.org/world/Gruush_RPGuide.pdf
the emphasis is on NWN but the ideas still apply here