PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Kuiper7986 on September 14, 2004, 09:17:07 pm
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Exordium:
This act will enstate that in any event any alienized personages declare vandetta among Yliakum and its guilds, all leading guild leaders shall be declared to form, \"The Unified Congress of Guilds,\" while the unified guilds itself will be adhered by \"The Yliakum Federation of Guilds.\"
Regulations:
Reg A.) All officially recognized Yliakum guilds must pact to distinguish its enemy.
*Reg B1.) No guild can declare absolute power or vote without the approved consent of the Unified Congress of Guilds.
*Reg B2.) For any declaration of document or event the Unified Congress of Guilds must vote yay, nay or abstain. To pass, yay count must be at least 60% or higher. (If the nay or abstain votes succeed, the document or event may be again heard for a second time. If abstained again it may be done a third time, forth time, etc...
Reg C.) Singular Guild Succession from \"The Yliakum Federation of Guilds,\" will result as an act of desertion leading to heavily infringed penalties upon the guild.
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Just give it up already.
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Um...where did this come from? Did you just make it up or has it been already made official between all the guilds, or something the Devs put together? I am just somewhat confused..perhaps some guilds will side with the forces coming to destroy.
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Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
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Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
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umm... wtf?
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he has aired the idea for some time which didnt recieve good response but it seems he really wants to do this.
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And by what authority is this enacted?
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And by what authority is this enacted?
Yeah, why should we listen to you...
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I don\'t think he means ALL guilds have to join this, but it is encouraged that you do, in his view. It would add more to the Government that is on the PlaneShift homepage. I\'m not saying that this will be the WHOLE Government, but it could consume a bit of it with Representatives from each guild(Maybe 1 or 2) and they can decide on some actions, etc. etc. It really would add to the effect of RP, which everyone says they want, but don\'t seem to act upon it when it comes forth.
Also, his last thread, sorta like this, was a peaceful union of all guilds. This has more of a Political vibe to it, it seems. Maybe we could make it where not everyone has to get along, but it could be (again) encouraged or something. If we discussed this a bit, and worked out all of the kinks and flaws, I think this would be an excellent start to a PS Government. :)
EDIT: We would have to change some things, etc. etc. if I didn\'t mention that. This could become the \"Player\'s Guild Union\" or some sort. I don\'t know really, but something like this would increase RP, instead of just fighting all the time when you are on. It would also make the job of Diplomats more useful, than before.
EDIT2: No, I mean throw out the Unification idea, but transform, or just create, a Governmental organization of some sort, which puts a little balance into PS. Because, if one guild had absolute power, things would be corrupted and just not good for the community, unless everyone (or most) want corruption in something like this. It would also balance out if every guild had 2 Reps, for example-just as long as every guild has the same number, and each vote counts the same, no matter who you are or what guild you come from...Just an idea.
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Though it\'s impossible to have all guilds united... I don\'t think the Dark Empire would join a union with the Cabal in it... ^^.
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Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
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Originally posted by seperot
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
How many times have we tried this before?....
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1.) Read carefully the authority in which this act will be enabled will be the Unified Congress of Guilds.
I created this idea in an event that a hostile NPC force tries to take over Yliakum. For example maybe Talad wants the storyline to be that a powerful new NPC race of species hostile to Yliakum wants to take over. So without having to rally up all the guilds (which I\'m assuming are going to be the powerhouse forces) to fight the new hostile race, there would be a unification of some sort to battle against this race. It would be like LOTR.
P.S: No I won\'t give it up already, the game has no real source of Government even though it says there will be government in the game. I know the game is in development and so on and so but the creation of Government doesn\'t require the game itself now, it can be done only with people and we are all people.
What\'s wrong with trying to setup a player ran government? Anyways were all waiting for CB right? Having to setup or run a player ran government is not an easy thing to setup, which I admit is true. But while we\'re waiting for CB and after it comes why don\'t we as members of the Planeshift community try our first attempts of a player ran government instead of saying no, no, no, no, umm stop it, umm no, no. It won\'t get us anywhere but then we wonder why a player-ran government is so hard to setup.
I mean we already have governments within our guilds but it helps to have a large government. Just think how much Planeshift has evolved...
First we had individual players joining the game a long time ago. Then after enough invidividual players joined guilds were starting to be created. Now were having alliances between guilds: Carceri, Citadel of Light, and The Dark Alliance. What\'s next...? After alliances are there going to be sovereign states? After Sovereign States is there going to be a nation...?
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Originally posted by Monketh
Originally posted by seperot
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
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Originally posted by druke
Originally posted by Monketh
Originally posted by seperot
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
Iam sure you got the by now hint. no one wants a united nations to happen in PS. Guess this means you guys can start working on your nukes with out fear of weapon inspectors :D
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Originally posted by snow_RAveN
Originally posted by druke
Originally posted by Monketh
Originally posted by seperot
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
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Some of you don\'t want unification of guilds...okay...
oh well don\'t matter to me, I\'ll keep pushing for a unification idea...
Oh no! ::gasp:: Looks like some of you guys contradict yourselves I see alliances! ::another gasp::
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Originally posted by Syzerian
Originally posted by snow_RAveN
Originally posted by druke
Originally posted by Monketh
Originally posted by seperot
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by lynx_lupo
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Just give it up already.
Helmora Velsha will join no such \"union of guilds\" we will be the only guild soon enough...
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This is sad Kuiper. I was your only supporter (more for the Gov. side, not so much for all unification) and now it is all torn apart, now that I won\'t be playing...
But, that was not the point of my post. It is to say that anyone can use the ideas that I stated above to form some sort of anything, I don\'t really care, and to repeat this statement, one final time. So, my closing statement will be,
Originally Posted by Faldrok(Me)
It really would add to the effect of RP, which everyone says they want, but don\'t seem to act upon it when it comes forth.
This is probably the truest statement ever spoken...tsk, tsk. It isn\'t what you want to hear, right?
And Kuiper: Don\'t give up. Don\'t listen to these fools, who can\'t even think of their own line to disregard your idea. If you make it a bit more Governmental, and not so much of a Unification, more people might listen to you. That is just a thought and the only real advice here.
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Hey Faldrok, thanks for the advice it has been well taken. No worries, I understand and it\'s okay. It\'s an on-going process. It\'s like laws today, if it doesn\'t pass or its vetoed it just gets re-written a little bit and a little bit over and over again until is passes.
It\'s not like some of the most damn-well respected people in the community (that I thought actually might\'ve taken the time to think about this idea for the better of Planeshift or give a small reason why it wouldn\'t work) only posted the quote that originated from \"Why don\'t you just give it up already.\"
PS: I\'m not giving up on this idea even after the reasons they gave me. Oh wait there were no reasons oops...
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Only good and neutral guilds would bond on such scale. And they\'re bonded enough! Like evil isn\'t handicapped enough already... :(
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You could ... wait after a huge war where every one is involved and theres lots of bombing add a fasict dictator + alot of marrines and some good guys who lost in the begining and dont forget that massive counter invasion.... ect ect ect ....
then when the war is over everyone is weak and their economy is so badly wrecked, Push your idea :D
wait didnt the UN ..... Nvmd :(
:D:D
(j/k)
P.S just put the matter aside for now, you got to wait till the time is right for every thing to fall in to place.
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Ok, I tried it a long time ago and it failed. You\'re still trying it ... and it will surely fail again.
But what I don\'t understand. Unification of guilds? Then why not making a great happy country from the start? I guarantee you that there is NO leader of any guild here willing to do such a thing, to put behind his/her dreams. How can two guilds that are enemies to unify?
Anyway, what I suggested some time ago, it was the creation of a Council of the guilds, search the thread and you\'ll see. I think it was named \"Planeshift Council\" or something like that.
In theory, I support some of your ideas. But delete that crap with the unification. Is need only a small \"thing\" (this will have to be found) to attract some guilds, after this the rest will come easily ...
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Did you guys not read the exordium?
It seems like you did, you guys keep mentioning it as if the unification would take place now, it doesn\'t.
Exordium:
This act will enstate that in any event any alienized personages declare vandetta among Yliakum and its guilds, all leading guild leaders shall be declared to form, \"The Unified Congress of Guilds,\" while the unified guilds itself will be adhered by \"The Yliakum Federation of Guilds.\"
If you read it carefully it says the act will enstate that in any event...which means this act has no use until that event in which any alienized personages declare a vandetta among Yliakum will it then be enstated.
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I think your idea has potential, Kuiper7986, but I have to admit I had to read your first post a few times to figure out what you were talking about. Maybe it would help if you wrote an unoffcial version (that is easy to read and doesn\'t have to be read carefully). That way it would be easier for everyone to understand what you are talking about. And that could help start a discusion that hopefully will be a bit more profound than \"give it up already\".
If people don\'t like an idea they should at least say why, instead of just whining and spaming about not liking it.
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Kuiper not everything can relate to Lord of the Rings, lets have that pat down..and since people are quoting that one quote ever so much maybe doing that is your best bet. Doesn\'t look like cooperation is very popular on this..
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I think that if an NPC force were ever to invade Yliakum, with the objective of crushing all those who lived there... the guilds would band together of their own accord.
I hope that at some point there will be some extent of player-run government in PS, but I don\'t know if now is the time for it. As you said, Kuiper, it has taken time to progress from individuals to guilds to alliances. A full government would logically take still more time to occur.
Personally, I think a lot of people are just incredibly paranoid that a union of guilds would take over the world and leave everyone else in the dust. Although this idea wouldn\'t have that effect..
I like the idea of guilds banding together against a common enemy, but I don\'t know if we really need an Act to accomplish that.
Just thought I\'d add my two tria\'s worth. :)
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Guess this means you guys can start working on your nukes with out fear of weapon inspectors.
:P
Even in the event that some force declares war on all yliakum, it still wouldn\'t hold. People declare war on our little world every day!
One of the fears is of having permanent temporary interim leaders. Others include, but are not limited to: \'USA\'(superpower) guild uses temp. union to furthur economic goals, quorum too high causing considerable delay, bureaucracy prevents action, creating sanctions :P, one group becomes authoritive comittee and others must obey, not enough people obey and chaos ensues, small guilds are left out, and highly binding treaties (especially feared by evil guilds).
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I\'m not sure if I agree with Kuiper. But I\'m trying to say the things that I think could be in favour. I\'ll leave out the things that are against as Monketh already stated them quite well. :)
People do declare war on the real world very often but ps isn\'t that world. (Maybe if the UN had more influence and less coruption the real world wouldn\'t be the way it is today.) Anyway we should try to make ps however we want it to be.
Leaders can and should be elected.
The strongest guilds will probably be superpowers anyway. Actually this could limite the power of strong guilds, and help make all guilds equal.
Furthering the economical goals of all of PS is a very logical thing to do, while furthering the economical goals of individuals is corruption. Just because our world is extreamly corupted doesn\'t mean that ps has to be. :)
To keep the quorom under control the council should only deal with *important* problems.
Laws can be created to keep one guild from taking over, actually such an organization could keep strong guilds from squashing new weak ones.
If people don\'t obey they\'ll risk getting their guild kicked out of the council.
All active guilds should be considered equal, at least for following laws, voting and decision making.
A guild shouldn\'t have to follow any treaty if they don\'t agree to the individual treaty. The game could become *very* borring if everyone had to agree to treaties such as \"don\'t be mean/nice\".
The council could enforce that the guilds that agree to a treaty obey it.
The council should have very limited power except in emergences such as an invasion of NPCs. (that way guilds won\'t lose much of their independence.)
That\'s about all I can think of at the moment :D
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who cares what happens if some large body attacks, it seems like it\'d be more fun if our scattered orginazations each had it own individual battles, and heck what if all of Yil. was taken over, that would rock
so for the sake of pure enjoyment, lets not
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Anyway, this may be a good idea but some guilds (maybe lots of them) won\'t acept it. You can go forward with your idea, just don\'t think everyone will follow its rules.
Chaotic guilds can never join a governament thing like this, it goes against their nature, they would then be in disadvantage since they had this massive guild union thingy to cut them short as soon as they did anything big... That\'s tough.