PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: sesmi on September 19, 2004, 10:17:13 pm
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i think, that you shoud be rewarded if you help the game,so if you do somthing like avretise ps on a forum or somthing or catch a rule brecker, you are cannonised!!! if you\'re a saint,the word \"saint\" apears in fromt of your name in game( like for me it whoud be \"saint sesmi\" ) AND to prevent noobs from puting \"saint\" in front of ther name when they register and get credit for somthing they never did, your saints also have gold lettering when they talk, and ther name is also gold. ALSO ther\'ll be a \"hall of saints\" where there are statues of all the saints in the land, no you don\'t get any real reward for being a saint, as people who do it for the reward whoud\'int be saints at all whoud they? please NO FLAMEING!!
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Your suggestions for measures for which a person might gain this \"Sainthood\" are both too easy and too hard at the same time. Advertising would ceratinly become spam.
Unfortunately, it also means people without skills to contribute would be unable to attain such a thing.
If anyone is to become a saint, it should be because of their actions, not a level, not a contribution, not spamming another forum. If you could dedicate yourself to being a monk in-game, helping others without regard to yourself, and continueing to do so whilst remaining a public figure, you might earn enough respect among the community to become a \"Saint\".
A possibility might be that this \"Sainthood\" could only be awarded post-humously, (with returns of a character being very, very, rare, spiritual moments) so one would actually have to give up something.
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Um this is just a quick way for someone to gain respect or reputation I think. If you help the game you shouldn\'t be rewarded..why? Because the people creating this game are not receiving paychecks for this game they are doing it for fun . They are letting us enjoy their creation and take part in it, if we are helping..that is just us contributing to their already made sacrifices for PlaneShift. Our reward is being able to play PlaneShift..don\'t forget that!
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please read my whole post, it also says \"stoping rule breckers!!!!\" being nice to ppl is also a good idea, thanks a lot :)
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so..? How is that reason for reward? Your whole idea floats around getting something in return, as I have already stated Planeshift is your reward. Stopping \"Rule Breakers\" is for your benefit.
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As I suggested, it would be better to be known unofficially as a Saint within the Community.
A.It\'s possible.
B.You have to earn it and you receive only respect as your reward.
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Originally posted by sesmi
please read my whole post, it also says \"stoping rule breckers!!!!\" being nice to ppl is also a good idea, thanks a lot :)
I agree with Monketh and DepthBlade on this. If you\'d start handing out rewards to ppl. who have reported someone, this would then create something very bad: framing and over-scrutiny. Ppl. would actually be looking for anything that they could report so that they might eventually reach some sort of critical threshold if they only report sufficient little things. This would create a very unpleasant system. Reporting should be a last dirch thing, which should only be used after negotiation has failed or if the rule breach is so severe that it must be dealt with immediately (like heavy cheating). Also, ppl. could report others for things they didn\'t actually do (or that they are not quite certain of).
I would not want any of this. Also, you\'d likely not gain nor deserve any respect for reporting any minor thing, you\'d do much better trying to persuade.
Reporting flaws and exploits is normal, i.e. nothing that deserves extra respect! Not doing so, however, deserves extra shame. (I.e., good policy should be natural.)
If we start to rely on some abstract entitiy to govern things, society is going to degrade by comfortably handing their freedoms away and soon we will have a report-and-defend system where nobody even talks (let alone tnink about something they didn\'t like about someone else but instead reports it and then waits for a verdict. (sounds familiar, doesn\'t it? *cough* Court system *cough*).
Also, I don\'t think they were not nice to you, sesmi, they just disagreed with you.
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Agreed, if they devs aren\'t getting any kind of pay or reward, even with all the work they do, why should you. If I caught someone cheating, I would report it because I care about the game and I don\'t want it to end up with half the people using cheats to raise their skills to uber-levels. Where is the fun then? I wouldn\'t even take a reward if I was offered it.
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no no no no!!!!!! i mean like if you catch a well known hacker or scammer and get him banned, then you become a saint, or you mabye can make it ingame (like stop a certian nember of theves and you become a minor saint of something like that)
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Originally posted by Icefalcon
If I caught someone cheating, I would report it because I care about the game and I don\'t want it to end up with half the people using cheats to raise their skills to uber-levels. Where is the fun then? I wouldn\'t even take a reward if I was offered it.
Originally posted by Sesmi
please read my whole post
and...
Originally posted by Sesmi
please NO FLAMEING!!
Its bound to happen with threads like this...
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I like the idea of Sainthood, but I detest your reasons...
I thought this might be about doing great things IN GAME and being known as a Saint for it, that would be cool, just like doing evil things you\'d become a Fiend.
This would be very cool RP I think. I mean really great, and really evil things, so the titles are rare. As I know very little of CB, I am not sure what sort of things this would entail... to me PS is a crystal hunt.
So, what do you think of my idea of Sainthood?
PS: FLAMING has no E...
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This is an ok idea but i dont think it would ever be put in place. No one would know where to draw the line of what is classified as sainthood or not. You would have to have a detailed document you put this in effect.
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That was my line of thought too.
Too little is known about the game to make it any more thorough though... oh well, maybe later.
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I agree with the majority of opinions here; catching a hacker or a rulebreaker is not grounds for a reward. It is something you are EXPECTED to do if you play the game or have any part in this community.
RP Sainthood is a touchy subject. It could be implemented, but the rules for it had better be extremely accurate and fair for everyone. Personally, I think that\'s an impossible task.
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If you help out enough ingame, you might get a chance to become a GM. And being a GM is 1337 :P
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The initialy suggested way of implementing sainthood seemed more like what any player who likes this game would do naturally.
Adeli\'s mention of sainthood and fiend does seem very interesting. It might be touching into other games, or maybe it\'s similar to the cabal and it\'s not yet existing opposite side. Perhaps players can goto a specific place, such as various temples, to register as either a saint or fiend, depending on the temple\'s loyalty. After such a act is done a person would be marked as a apprentice of that alignment.
Since the definition of good and evil are stereo typed on don\'t know if this counts...
Perhaps fiends become more fiendish as they attack all that they see non-discriminently including other fiends (as expected fiends might become more fiendish by attacking saints?), possibly by looting also.
As for saint\'s, I don\'t know if my views are right or wrong and this is just a personal belief so it\'s up to anyone\'s decision, saint are supposed to be the opposite of evil, maybe specific quests can help a saint become stronger, otherwise saints can only attack fiends without penalty(possibly gain saint experience for it), being on the side of \'good\' would probbaly imply that they can\'t attack neutral people. I also believe that saints would get experience from helping people (For now the only aiding I can think of is helping someone recover from damage and maybe support magic(stat boosting skills only, fiends can lower stats)), though when a saint gets a large group of followers, what happens if anyone\'s guess.
There will be no set rules in place as far as colaboration goes, fiends and saints are free to be in the same party and even help each other, though it might cause all the other saints and fiends to come after that party for being the odd one.
*takes a deep breath* Ah... I just had to let it out :)
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ok how about this: 9 differnt things: chaotic good, netral good, lawfull good, lawful evil, and so on, depending on what your actions in-game are? how about that?
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Now thats something we can do, in fact, just about everyone has already decided what alignment their character is, and act accordingly. Doesn\'t need to be programmed at all. RPing is a wonderful thing.
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Originally posted by sesmi
ok how about this: 9 differnt things: chaotic good, netral good, lawfull good, lawful evil, and so on, depending on what your actions in-game are? how about that?
Well i admit i like that idea :P
It would be cool to see if someone was good or evil before hanging out with them :D
Although your guild(if you in one) will basicaly decide your allignment if you arnt in a neutral guild that is, :P
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Originally posted by Myrtl
It would be cool to see if someone was good or evil before hanging out with them :D
Although your guild(if you in one) will basicaly decide your allignment if you arnt in a neutral guild that is, :P
I was thinking more along the lines of letting players know who they are dealing with. I\'ve had instances where I was lied to and back stabbed. I thought that this system might be something nice to have as information. Although.. I guess this means I need to be werey of all neutral characters too?
Sesmi: I think I recognize your categroy from a game known as Seiken Densetsu 3 it had the following classes
Light Light
========Light
Dark Light
============Neutral
Light Dark
========Dark
Dark Dark
Though there is a chance that there is no such thing for this?
An addictional thought, fiends and saints can lose their status by either going to the temple of they alignment and declareing themselves to be neutral of by commiting acts which go against they alignment till they drop below the alignment level(They can always re register their allignemnt).
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When you first meet a person, you have no idea about their personality. You wouldn\'t normally know whether someone is \'good\' or \'evil\', so there\'s shouldn\'t be any labels to tell you it in PS the second you look at them, imo...
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I don\'t think it needs to be programmed. The thing is that you don\'t know who you are dealing with since you can\'t decide if a person is good or evil just by looking at him.
Imagine I\'m playing an evil character, and I run into a good-aligned person. The person don\'t know I am an evil fiend. How in the world would he know that? He has never seen me before, and therefore cannot recognize me as an evil character.
My character might be lying about his identity, who knows? If the person saw I was a \"fiend\", then the person would instantly know who I was and turn hostile on me.
You don\'t need titles in your name. That is something that should be left to the players. The title as saint, fiend, fool, evil lord etc. is things that should be left to the community, and not be undiscovered by simply taking a quick look at a persons name.
EDIT: Ops, Moogie was faster... :)
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Originally posted by Moogie
When you first meet a person, you have no idea about their personality. You wouldn\'t normally know whether someone is \'good\' or \'evil\', so there\'s shouldn\'t be any labels to tell you it in PS the second you look at them, imo...
I see, well then, how about something similar to a card that you can hand out stating that you are either a saint or fiend? (Purely a descriptive item, just to describe what they are, maybe a license?)
But I guess it isn\'t needed in either case since if a person is good enough I guess rumours about that person will start and no such things will be needed.
Since my point is proven to be rather pointless for accurate RPing, I shall drop the suggestion.
Edit: Fixed typoe
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Originally posted by Xordan
If you help out enough ingame, you might get a chance to become a GM. And being a GM is 1337 :P
Noone likes you and you\'ll never be GM, so you\'ll never be 1337. Hah! Besides, I think you\'d just ban everyone on sight, but that\'s just my prejudice against bad people that\'s talking right now. :)
As for rewards for catching someone... Well, it\'s a nice thought, but very unlikely to happen, though it automatically happens to some extent. Say you expect someone is using a bot. You report him, and the GM decides that he\'s not worth having ingame, then he gets booted. Now you automatically recieve the reward of getting more monsters for yourself, as well as giving the people that visit the area after you more monsters as well. So that\'s kinda a reward in itself, but don\'t expect to see your name posted everywhere or think that you\'ll get some uber d00d sword of anti-hacking, or anything else. That just wont happen. By getting a cheater banned, you\'re doing the game and the community a favor, but it\'s not something you\'re very likely to get recognized for. Just like being a GM. :)
Besides, Xordan... I think I have a good reason now for why you\'ll never be a GM. You think being a GM is 1337. A GM doesn\'t. :)
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Okay, a lot to clarify... Firstly, Moogie I know this would be extremely difficult, and likely impossible, I just think it would be a cool RP aspect.
There will be no set rules in place as far as colaboration goes, fiends and saints are free to be in the same party and even help each other, though it might cause all the other saints and fiends to come after that party for being the odd one.
I did say sainthood would be an RP things, the rules would not be necessary. People can govern themselves, there is no way my (eg.) lawful good paladin would team up with a chaotic evil blackguard.
When you first meet a person, you have no idea about their personality. You wouldn\'t normally know whether someone is \'good\' or \'evil\', so there\'s shouldn\'t be any labels to tell you it in PS the second you look at them, imo...
Okay, Moogie, this IMHO is wrong, it\'s a whole world, you hear things... people spread news, there\'ll be some sort of news network, if someone does something to become a saint or fiend, then everyone will know about it... it\'s only a stalactite remember... not that big. If you have a title, you are legend. If someone slaughtered 50 million people, surely you\'d hear of them wouldn\'t you? Or if someone killed the fiend that killed 50 million people, you\'d hear about it. (I know this is a bad example) Everyone in Diablo II can see your title after you kill Diablo on each difficulty, because you become famous.
Also, have you noticed, you can see rank and guild currently in PS, how is this different.
Diamondcite, Sesmi\'s \"categories\" come from Dungeons & Dragons, which predates Seiken Deisetsu 3 greatly. I just realised you also said that rumours would spread.
The only problem I forsee, is how to actually be rewarded these titles.
Though you may agree with me, I see no problem RP wise with this example. The only problem is the coding, and the rules defining title worthiness.
I love sparking debates.
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You hear things, yes it\'s true, but that should be between players. It\'s still impossible to decide if a person is good or evil if you have never heard of him, which you can\'t have if noone have told you about him. It\'s a part of the RP feeling to hear rumors from other players.
\"Have you heard of the evil lord Tom Haanx. They say that he wiped out an entire villiage with a single spell...\"
or:
\"The good Halad is a real saint. He always give to the poor and help those in need.\"
You don\'t need any tricky coding for this. It\'s the community that does the job by spreading rumors about people.
Everybody who listens a bit will recognize the most famous names around, and know who has done what by doing that etc.
And it\'s possible to team up with the opposite align if you happen to have the same goal at the moment, or for other reasons. Trust me, it can create some really interesting conversations and events. :D
And Diablo 2 is a hack n\' slash game, which has in my opinion nothing to do with RP.
Yes, there\'s nothing like a good debate now and then. :)
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I do know that it\'s not very feasible, even if the title doesn\'t actually appear anywhere, it\'d be nice to be able to be recognised for very great or very evil deeds.
Like it or not (I don\'t) Diablo II IS an RPG. I\'m sorry, I know it seems wrong, but you \"play the role\" of an adventurer in a world, the very essence of RP no? Sure, the quests are limited in direction, but just being an RPG does not make it a good one. The only way Neverwinter Nights differs from Diablo II, is that you have options about the quests you take, and a more active role in your character\'s improvement. Both are RPG though.
I\'ll concede defeat that this should be an RP thing only, though I still feel that titles would not ruin the RP aspect. The lack of Open PvP would make fiend-ness hard to achieve anyway.
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This is starting to bring up another thought... The evil portion of the game game technically doesn\'t exists since PvP doesn\'t exist.
But there can always be quests which are evil in nature, mosts quests seem like fairy tales where the knight slays the dragon in it\'s lair.
I guess the evil quests could be, the dark knight unleashed man eating plants across the forested path, making the trip eat a trecherous one.
*Begins researching current PvP system*
--before research--
I am given the beleive that current PvP is done in dueling arena of sorts.
What if there was a hermit which nerver goes into town but is a great duelist? Perhaps PvP can be allowed if both players explicitly agree to fight each other (can be set in a dialog?)(This feels a little like Diablo II doesn\'t it? Only this time the other has to say that you are allowed to hurt them before they can hurt you.
EDIT: Added possible PvP idea? Nov 7, 11:57AM EDT
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i was thinking of useing a system that\'s sorta dnd slash fable
it uses allignments like this:
lawfull netrual chaotic
good
netral
evil
it mixes one from the horrozotal row and the vertical row and mixes then depending on your in-game ations and it changes how you look too, so whadda think?
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I don\'t know, the DND system is good IMO (i like it as quick and general description), but it\'s so absolutely DND specific that PS would start to feel DNDish, which would hurt it\'s originality. Also, it would probably bring up copyright violation issues...
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Yes, I am aware some of these ideas have been posted. Flame me if you want. If you think a good/evil system has been beaten to death, then don\'t read this.
I don\'t think a saint title is a good system, atleast not for catching hackers. I think it\'s a given that everyone should do it regardless of a reward.
However, I do think an evil/good system is not only a good idea, but a vital componant of a true role playing game. While it is not necessary for a game\'s success, or popularity, nothing stops a character, from an evil guild, completeing a quest that no evil characture would do(i.e. saving a girl from a band of theivs).
Yes, you could argue that they could be doing it for the reward, but what if they continually do \"good deeds?\" I don\'t know your previous roleplaying experience, but to me that is bad role playing.
You could also say that it shouldn\'t be programmed in, that its strictly a roleplaying thing (i.e. left up to the community to spread around). You may consider your friends and yourself good RPers, but this is a free game. That means it will reach out and \"grab in\" a lot of people who have little, or no role playing experience. You know the type, the pople who want to hack-and-slash their way to the top with the best uber items. They wont want to RP, much less spread around rumors of who is good and bad. A system of alignment will help them think about their actions.
It\'s also common sense to me that no good character would be using a godly +15 sword of blood, famous for slaying a thousand virgins. Like wise, no evil characture would use a godly hammer of justice crafted by the gods to destroy evil.
I also don\'t think an evil guild would want a character who continually does good quests. No one says \"did you hear about ?\" \"yeah, I heard one of their members saved a little girl and rid a town of bandits the the other day.\"
I would love to see a game where a good/evil system is applied effectivly. For me, this would be done by haveing 3 types of quests. Good, neutral, and evil. Good would add to your rating, neutral would have no effect, and evil would subtract. Failed pick pocketing attemps could also give small deductions.
Someone brought up the idea of merchants travelling between towns in a previous thread, robbing them would be a perfect \"quest\" for an evil guild (perhaps the time of the jounrey would be provided by various NPCs). If a merchant is robbed, prices in the receiving town could be raised till the next one arrives. That would give a good guild an insentive to protect them.
If PKing is later introduced, the person that dies would receive the option of ignoring it, or effecting his status. If the later option is choosen, a good killing an evil character would greatly add points, an evil killing a good would greatly subtract points, a good killing another good would subtract a lot, and any other kills would subtract a few points.
To make it a goal to acceive either a good, or bad, rating: having either extreme would slightly alter your stats (i.e. an evil person would have +5 to str and +10% to dark way damage given and +10% damage taken from the crystal way). Maybe you could have different levels of evil and good, the more negative your points the higher your evil ranking. Being a higher level of could increase the effect on stats.
summary:
+I belive each character should have a good/evil rating. This would be hidden from public view, unless the player decides to make it public(you could say a character had symbols or tattoes, ect).
+Being in the same party with a character for X ammount of time would also reveal thier alignment.
+Also having a certin level in magic abilities would allow you to sense a person\'s alignment, a higher magic would give you a more percise estimate.
+I belive a few of the \"godly\" items should have a requierment of a certin ammount of good or evil points. See above for explination.
+I belive a guild\'s alignment should be the average of all the guild member\'s ratings.
+I feel that there should be small areas of the world where only evil, or good, characters could go (i.e. holy cities, or a thieves camp).
+Each race should have a different starting number for alignment. I.e. diabolo should be close to evil.
+If wanted, you could tie in the saint system so the top 5 characters in both extremes get titles infront of their name. You could also have the 10 top charactures/guilds displayed on the website as sort of a hall of fame.
+if you have a high evil rating, the town guards would try to arrest you. If they arrest you, your rating gets dropped a level and you lose a certin ammount of money.
+to tie it into planeshift you could say one side is Laanx and the other is Talad
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I\'m going to only answer to the points that I object to, so take the absence of a point as (preliminary) endorsement.
Originally posted by JanetReno
To make it a goal to acceive either a good, or bad, rating: having either extreme would slightly alter your stats (i.e. an evil person would have +5 to str and +10% to dark way damage given and +10% damage taken from the crystal way). Maybe you could have different levels of evil and good, the more negative your points the higher your evil ranking. Being a higher level of could increase the effect on stats.
NO. What your alignment is should never have any effect on your stats. It\'s unrealistic and would only serve to generate a new kind of \"powerlevelling\", if you can call it that. It serves no RP purpose whatsoever IMO. Why would you reward the extremes? What about the \"extremely neutral\"?
Originally posted by JanetReno
+Being in the same party with a character for X ammount of time would also reveal thier alignment.
I don\'t think so, If anything, their deeds would show it. This means that if they do evil / good deeds while in a party, the party will start to notice. You could base this on the number of alignment points that are gained while in this particular party (probably even per party member) and create some \"probability rating\" for it (i.e., \"likely good\" or \"most likely evil\").
Originally posted by JanetReno
+I belive a few of the \"godly\" items should have a requierment of a certin ammount of good or evil points. See above for explination.
Still, this is something that must not be enforced. There might well be instances in which this would be done, like when infiltrating some guild or whatever. Also in times of extreme need. And also an evil char might use this \"hammer of eternal good\" to do the evil deeds in order to stain it or take away the \"goodness\" of it. If anything, it might add to alignment points, but even this I don\'t actually advocate. This is something I\'d like to leave to RP. Maybe they\'d get a message like \"this item feels bad\" or something like this.
Originally posted by JanetReno
+I feel that there should be small areas of the world where only evil, or good, characters could go (i.e. holy cities, or a thieves camp).
Cool, so the evil spy will not be able to spy in the temple? Or the good party will be unable to enter the hideout of the evil ppl. just because they\'re too good?
Originally posted by JanetReno
+If wanted, you could tie in the saint system so the top 5 characters in both extremes get titles infront of their name. You could also have the 10 top charactures/guilds displayed on the website as sort of a hall of fame.
This would be a pretty weak system to justify a title like \"saint\" or \"fiend\". After all, saint / fiendhood should not be attainable by simply doing good RP (as this should be standard). Also, what about the 1000 other ppl. who also have gotten maximum ratings in either extreme?
Originally posted by JanetReno
+if you have a high evil rating, the town guards would try to arrest you. If they arrest you, your rating gets dropped a level and you lose a certin ammount of money.
Only if they knew (i.e., you told them or are \"public enemy\" or wear signs to show it).
Originally posted by JanetReno
+to tie it into planeshift you could say one side is Laanx and the other is Talad
You know that there are atheistic races in PS? Also, you can\'t actually say that Laanx is evil and Talad is good AFAICS.
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I was thinking about my idea, and thought of an amendment...
Instead of it being coded, it is completely RP, but, if a GM or Dev hears many tales of greatness or evil, they make it known, and proclaim the person either a saint or a fiend.
This has no holes RP wise, because as the planeshift site says, devs will have speical characters with high social standing, as this stands, any announcement they make public would be highly known.
Plus, word of mouth has to work for the GM or Dev to hear of the tales, so it is highly realistic.
Also, once a person has gained a title, they lose it upon going to the Death Realm, could make some fluff like \"All your deeds have been forgotten.\"
This means, people with titles, become bounties! I really like the idea of bounty hunters, and hope they are included.
Obviously, RP wise, only an evil or neutral player would hunt down a saint, and only a good or neutral would hunt down a fiend.
This system would require people RP properly, which I understand is a must anyway.
Seytra, you covered most of what I thought. Though I don\'t like the idea of alignment points, it should be RP I decided, while still having a title... My new thoughts allow this.
As for your alignment ideas Sesmi, I think while changing alignment is necessary, it should be RP.
I don\'t like the idea of growing horns, or gaining a halo or whatever good get.
OT: Is Fable good?
-Tyralus Shadowdancer
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Originally posted by Adeli
Also, once a person has gained a title, they lose it upon going to the Death Realm, could make some fluff like \"All your deeds have been forgotten.\"
This means, people with titles, become bounties! I really like the idea of bounty hunters, and hope they are included.
I don\'t actually like bounty hunting, but anyway, I don\'t see what would make them a bounty anyway? I mean, the title isn\'t going to be (inverted and) transferred to you if you kill them, so you wouldn\'t actually receive a bounty? Well, you could brag about it, I suppose.
Originally posted by Adeli
Seytra, you covered most of what I thought. Though I don\'t like the idea of alignment points, it should be RP I decided, while still having a title... My new thoughts allow this.
I\'m not sure about the alignment points. On one hand, it would be ideal to have complete freedom, but OTOH it doesn\'t depend on the players if you have some formal system. And it is my experience that in any large community, it is bad to solely rely on the community, especially if the community members change frequently.
Originally posted by Adeli
As for your alignment ideas Sesmi, I think while changing alignment is necessary, it should be RP.
I don\'t like the idea of growing horns, or gaining a halo or whatever good get.
The greatest danger IMO is misclassification of deeds. It happened to me in singleplayer games that I thought what I was about to do was one alignment, but it ended up being another one.
This seems to happen if the classification of the deed is being based on a belief system or other local convention which isn\'t actually universal. A prime example is of course euthanasia.
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Originally posted by Adeli
OT: Is Fable good?
-Tyralus Shadowdancer
yes very!!!!!!! and about your ealyer rp comment \"only good or netreal players will kill a evil player\" can\'t a evil player kill a rival evil player?