PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: kronon on September 22, 2004, 07:18:27 pm
-
Resently (because planeshift cb hasn\'t started yet) I started playing another mmpog called tibia. Although it has some drawbacks it has one great idea inplemented.
A noob world. Before any player can begin with the real part of the game. Players have to finish \"noob Island\", this is done when they reach lvl8. This means that they have to play for at least 20 hours before they can join the main game. PVP is not posible in \"noob island\" so noob killing doesn\'t happen there. Also most people that begin to play, have friends that will protect them when they come unther attack by noob killers.
Anti cheating solution. When you cheat your account get\'s deleted. This means all your characters are deleted and you have to start all over again in noob world (a hell for not noobs). So let\'s say I cheat a create a million in currency I get deleted and now I can start all over again. Most people won\'t create more then 1 character because it plainly sucks to have to go truh noob world again.
Anti noob solution. When noobs have completed noob world, they already know the basics and aren\'t in so much danger as they would other wise be. You won\'t be bothered by stopid question neither because all noobs aren\'t on the main land (where you are)
resources: www.tibia.com, www.tibia.de, http://tibia.gamigo.de/en/tutorial/rookgaard.wot
-
Originally posted by kronon
Anti cheating solution.
When Paladin reaches it\'s full adult state, maybe it will be able to delete accounts, right now the Jr shows too many errors and non cheating (Only used for logging in CB)
Originally posted by kronon
Anti noob solution.
We have a solution for this, but nothing to be implemented in CB for a start
-
Simply ban cheaters ip forever. Its not like PS is losing money by banning cheaters/hackers.
why let them get better at cheating/hacking, and figer out how they got busted.
If u really want to be nice a 1 year ban might work for 1st time cheaters. second forever.
if the your acount is deleted only, well, then someone could just use keep practicing there hacking on a lev 1 acount till they got it right. then go from there.
ok who cares my lev 1 char gets deleted 5 times big deal. then time #6 when i dont get caught hacking and my char starts out with 10 mile gold and lev edited to lev 50 well........ u errrr..........bad bad.........
plz dont cheat/hack it holds the game up , uses time of programers time that could be better spent inproving the game and adding new stuff..
-
IP bans don\'t work on people clever enough to mask their IP, or those on dynamic IPs that change every time they connect to the Internet.
-
I and many many pepole can get around a IP ban it isnt hard at-all.
-
you can follow the progress from players. If a players goed to lvl 8 in not anough hours then it get\'s deleted. So they have to play any way.
-
Most stupid I have ever heard!
Deleting accounts of cheaters... ?(
Just ban that losers for the rest of their crappy lives!
Cheating ruins the game for ALL other people in the game including other cheaters. You don\'t want them in your game! Just ban them and save bandwidth for other fair players :)
ow and also delete their accounts because they only waste space.
-
How is planeshift going to recognize cheaters? My only advice would be that the server keeps a small log on every player (progress on skills, items collected/sold) and develop a program that reads the text files for any unusual behavior in stats. (This should be easy to do in C++, or even VB.) If a file is too suspicious, it goes to talad or some server moderator for a final judgement.
-
Well... what if he just sold some very valuable items?
I mean you never know.
It\'s hard to check this. I mean are you just gonna look at the amount of crystals? He could have already bought ALOT of items from the crystals he got by cheating. Than that system doesnt think he\'s a cheater.
-
Stop talking about crystals and CB at the same time- there\'s no crystals in CB, it\'s Tria. :)
Anyway, cheaters are good. We welcome cheaters. Without cheaters- helpful ones, ones who find holes in the system and report them without exploiting them- the game would be vulnerable to those who do exploit them for their own selfish means (people like Zetsumei and Psybur are prime examples, and I\'ll name them wherever a discussion like this appears; partially it means people will recognise their names and tell me so I can kick them out if they dare show up in CB :P).
We\'ll even reward good people who find cheats and help us. The only reward exploiters will get is a permanent cold-shoulder.
As for \"delete or ban?\", I think it is written somewhere that exploiters will be banned from the game. We have already banned the two named examples I mentioned above (although they\'re still lurking around, because MB doesn\'t have a ban feature). Even if they get around an IP ban, we will find them again, and ban them again. That\'s what GMs are for... and that\'s why we choose popular people to be GMs. Lots of friends means you\'re more likely to hear through the grapevine when a sour grape slips back in. ;)
Rest assured, we will not be soft with those who wish to harm, rather than help.
-
That\'s simple.
Instead of just tracking their liquid assets (cash), track total assets. If they\'re wearing armor worth 600, a weapon worth 1000, and have 200 tria, you know something suspicious is happening if they suddenly gain 100,000 tria or a weapon worth 100,000 tria.
On the other hand if they have a 8,000 weapon and 5,000 armor, they sell a rare, 4,000 object for 10,000 it\'s not nearly so much of a change.
In another case, though, an intelligent cheater would just cheat small amounts of money or small gains over a longer period of time; maybe idling for several hours, then cheat to make his stats seem as though he had been leveling the whole time.
So, in order to prevent some cheating:
-Track the total wealth (items, equipment, etc) of characters rather than just cash
-Track stats
-
Originally posted by Moogie
We\'ll even reward good people who find cheats and help us. The only reward exploiters will get is a permanent cold-shoulder.
a cold-shoulder.. sounds cool :D
Ow btw whats that reward? Just some crystals, a good weapon or what? Just interested :P
*Toadhead learns how to become a good cheater*
-
before in a very old time... hum maybe 10 years ago some programmers had a very usefull idea.
When someone copy your videogame, the games becomes impossible to play. At the beginning no problem and, then when you arrive far enough the game becomes impossible : a lot of monsters come from everywhere, you can\'t stay alive and you realize that you come as far in the game for nothing (for example I believe one of these games was GOD... but I\'m not sure).
Please when someone cheat... send to this very intelligent guy a superb update before erasing his account... ;-)
-
Originally posted by Toadhead
Originally posted by Moogie
We\'ll even reward good people who find cheats and help us. The only reward exploiters will get is a permanent cold-shoulder.
a cold-shoulder.. sounds cool :D
Ow btw whats that reward? Just some crystals, a good weapon or what? Just interested :P
*Toadhead learns how to become a good cheater*
I don\'t think there\'s set rewards, just if you find something, depending on how potentially important the fix will be for the game, you\'ll get a few K\'s of Tria, or maybe some EXP... *shrugs* it just depends I guess. :) I\'m pretty sure the devs have done this before in MB, rewarding goodhearted people with a valuable weapon (a claymore or galkard) for their help and attitude. :)
-
Originally posted by Moogie
I don\'t think there\'s set rewards, just if you find something, depending on how potentially important the fix will be for the game, you\'ll get a few K\'s of Tria, or maybe some EXP... *shrugs* it just depends I guess. :) I\'m pretty sure the devs have done this before in MB, rewarding goodhearted people with a valuable weapon (a claymore or galkard) for their help and attitude. :)
I think if somebody wont help developpers because they arent rewarded... they are not good enough to come in Yliakum playing with us !
What\'s that ?!! \"if I recieve no money I won\'t help!\". And at the same time : \"I hope the game will be always free!\"
There is no place for baby\'s brain in Yliakum ! and if you are just able to behave with your big self esteem please stay in your boring real life and let us in peace !
-
IP banning isnt a solution, for obvious reasons. I can change mine in under 15 seconds. but MAC (Media access control, NOT MACintosh :) ) banning is a very permanent way of protecting the PS world.
-
The whole anti-noob solution is okay but I don\'t agree on just pushing them to the side, atleast start them off in a town and let them leave whenever. I for one would never decline a noob for help... but hey I want from a noob to hmm lets say intermediate/expert in a day (Not that there is much to learn but how to \'exploit\' all the roof jumping bugs. I am sure all the Dev\'s know of this so no need to write a report.)
but yeah back to it, I won\'t decline a noob if he/she asks for help but instead show him/her around the place and the sort of tricks they can do, (Like I have showed atleast 7 people how to roof jump.) We should all keep up PS\' good reputation as I have now made many friends (GO KEPTO AND MACHAMARU!! oh and infernal :S hehe).
It makes you feel better when a noob says, \"Wow thanks guys everyone answers your question straight away, I heard they do that.\" and it just makes you feel great that the community is so helpful and nice to each other, unlike those fools who tell everyone to \'rack\' off etc.. it\'s just not going to help.
Well moving on from that, anti-cheating can be implemented into the game but it won\'t be until later stages I guess when they find someone who can write a cheatbuster script just like many FPS Multiplayer games have.
One thing I am worried about seeing is people that use macro\'s and bots to keep their character mining and training. That will ruin it because you will have people gaining a load of experience and they are sleeping in real life! It is retarded :P
Well that is my essay on Anti-Noob and Anti-Cheating.
-
Man, your the greatest!
A++
What you speak is so ture, if only there were more people as wise as you on PS!!! aaahhh
-
hehe thanks Zell, I do what I can. =P
Well I hope there are more people, people that won\'t turn their backs on noobs by pushing them into a town where they cannot leave MANY people hate tibia because of that reason as your only fighting rats. I used to play it, 2nd day I got bored and uninstalled it. I played my friends account, it is alright when your out in the proper wild but the whole noob thing is still so stupid. So like usual there should just be a regular spawn point for first time users at a town and they can leave whenever they want. That is all we need to do!
-
Well I am playing Tibia for 2 years now, and the \"noob-island\" (aka Rookgard ;D) doesn\'t help very much in my opinion. In Tibia the most new players are getting annoyed of the noob island since its a big waste of time..
In planeshift there should be a Tutorial Garden or something like that, so noobies can learn the game and older players which want to start a new char haven\'t got to spend so much time at getting off from the noob isle.
-
In my oppinion, the best way to get newbies started is to simply drop them in the middle of everything, ignore them and see if they can find out how to play. If they can\'t, they\'re weak and they can just go play something else. :)
Well on a more serious note, a help file is of course needed, so people have something to refer to. But making a whole seperate island isn\'t necessary at all. It\'s just like real life. If you don\'t do anything yourself, and try to learn how to play the game, you wont get anywhere. There\'s no mom and dad here to help you.
-
Originally posted by Gronomist
In my oppinion, the best way to get newbies started is to simply drop them in the middle of everything, ignore them and see if they can find out how to play. If they can\'t, they\'re weak and they can just go play something else. :)
What if you see a child in a river, but he can\'t swim?
Will you let him find out how to swim?
And when he dies you\'ll just say: \"Well.. he was weak, he would never be able to survive in this hard world\".
Thats just the same. No! I think we need to help these poor guys who doesn\'t understand the game even after reading the help file, but realy want to play the game. Is it so hard to answer a few questions and show him how you need to do things?
-
Originally posted by Toadhead
Originally posted by Gronomist
In my oppinion, the best way to get newbies started is to simply drop them in the middle of everything, ignore them and see if they can find out how to play. If they can\'t, they\'re weak and they can just go play something else. :)
What if you see a child in a river, but he can\'t swim?
Will you let him find out how to swim?
And when he dies you\'ll just say: \"Well.. he was weak, he would never be able to survive in this hard world\".
Thats just the same. No! I think we need to help these poor guys who doesn\'t understand the game even after reading the help file, but realy want to play the game. Is it so hard to answer a few questions and show him how you need to do things?
Have you ever heard Darwin\'s theory about Survival of the fittest? It\'s harsh, but it\'s the truth. If you can\'t swim, don\'t jump into the water, and the same with a MMORPG. If you can\'t figure out how to play a game that takes brains to figure out, find something less challenging, like WoW or SWG.
By the way, I\'m a horrible swimmer so I don\'t go near the water myself. So the chances of me finding someone who is drowning aren\'t too high. But yes, I would help. And even though I think people should just start out in the middle of everything, I still help them out if they bother asking, right? :)
-
Originally posted by Gronomist
I still help them out if they bother asking, right? :)
so...
If they are unconscious (if I say it right becuase I have never used this word before), so they can\'t speak, you will just let them die? Thats what you say :P
but back to the topic,
I know that only the strongest will survive..
But thats no reason to not help the \"weaker\".
If someone need help you will need to give him help, thats my opinion.
-
well noobs are the future of Planeshift, they are the ones to keep the tradition alive, even when we stop playing one day. (yes its true, stop denying it). I say only teach the noobs just barely enough to survive, then just let them be afterwards...
-
how about this idea from a game called wyvern:
the tutorial teachs you how to move and then you can just skip the rest by just wallking out the door.
but if you want to do it, you get rewarded (like a free level in 1 skill of your chioce :) ) and you can come back AT ANY TIME!!!! so if you forget how to do magic or something, you just go back to tutorial tower, and go to the magic room!!!! simple as that!!!!!
-
Originally posted by Toadhead
Originally posted by Gronomist
I still help them out if they bother asking, right? :)
so...
If they are unconscious (if I say it right becuase I have never used this word before), so they can\'t speak, you will just let them die? Thats what you say :P
but back to the topic,
I know that only the strongest will survive..
But thats no reason to not help the \"weaker\".
If someone need help you will need to give him help, thats my opinion.
Well, what I meant with that is, that if someone asks me for help, I\'ll help them. Ingame, or here on the forums, that is. You shouldn\'t be taking things too literally, especially not when it includes sarcasm. :)
-
Originally posted by Gronomist
You shouldn\'t be taking things too literally, especially not when it includes sarcasm. :)
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit...
(Yeah, I couldn\'t help it :P)
Anyway, if someone asks nicely for help, you should give it. If someone is spamming \"G1mm3 t3h tR1z0rz!!!\" then you give them a good kicking. :)
-
I ahve just been thinking... something that really annoys me ingame... people DONT read the help on the site and come in going \"How do I move?\" or \"Whats a crystal?\" they should read the site first BEFORE asking. So maybe we should stick a picture on the site saying \"LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME HERE>>> YES LEARN HOW TO SOLVE YOUR NOOBISH WAY>>> THIS MEANS YOU WONT HAVE TO HARASS MEMBERS WHO TOOK THEIR TIME TO READ THIS >>> CLICK HERE!!\" there simpe enough.
-
shadowfalcon good idea =P MAC is better to ban than ip but you can still mask MAC address cant you?
-
Gunbound has a massively attack rate by hackz and cheaters than ever other game that i know, and it adepted a good way, a litle third party program that do like a small debuger and anti-virus together, just for cheats and hackz, it get all those background running aplications and analyses them, so if all ok the game start it just get 2 seconds of my p3 700mhz, so good way to keep the hacking stuff away of the game, it called GameGuard i think...
\"look forward\" that is a hole
-
\"I ahve just been thinking... something that really annoys me ingame... people DONT read the help on the site and come in going \"How do I move?\" or \"Whats a crystal?\" they should read the site first BEFORE asking. So maybe we should stick a picture on the site saying \"LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME HERE>>> YES LEARN HOW TO SOLVE YOUR NOOBISH WAY>>> THIS MEANS YOU WONT HAVE TO HARASS MEMBERS WHO TOOK THEIR TIME TO READ THIS >>> CLICK HERE!!\" there simpe enough.\"
sooooooooo very true!!
even if you had the best tutorial or the best help file in the world half of them wont check it. You need a small, mandatory help file. Like a small level that you have to complete first. This teaches you how to walk, how to chat, pick up stuff etc. Then you let them into the real world, so they already know how to do 90% of the stuff that gets asked anyway.
-
For the noob solution i guess, a \"hero school\" in the town of ur \"birth-island-or-something-like-it\", than u need to do those steps, and grow some level, learning how to live in PlaneShift world, ofcourse u\'ll be learning whole commands, and how to chat with NPC :)) , a Hero School or like that would be a great idea, but yes, i think there my idea is not that original, but, u all can adaptate that dont u ? :]
-
Ok. I have to Admit it I once was a cheater in a popular
online game graalonline.com I would Wall Hack (walk through walls)
Drop Unlimted Bombs on the screen and kill everyone in the
game go invisible,
have super speed turn my character into a giant Tree
Or Ship Upload my own Ganis (graal animations) onto the server, Spawn Monsters & Npcs, Teleport Anywhere in the
map upload Crystals and even Edit the levels and update them online.
You name it I did it.. I didnt even have a credit card at the
Time so I just made many many personal programs and worked
out ways and methodsto get other peoples accounts. I would do what ever since I did not have
A P2P (Pay to Play) account and no credit card.
I did just about any method I could think of.
Fake logins, Grabb Encrypted passwords from reg
Send them to server. Server dycrpt (I sent them a custom
made client I just put in my IP
then complied it and sent it
to them then they opened it and
it sent the info to me the server since
the client already had my ip and the user did not know my
Ip or even know what the program was basicly so
that was the best way for me)
I would make it get whats behind the astericks then take
a snapshot and send it to my e-mail. I used get window
text functions.. you name it I did it.
Moogie said that cheaters who report what they find
in the program would get a reward, but think about it
If they cheat they can get the reward on there own!
And saying that also just invokes more people to cheat on
the server it will be there excuse to you. Trust me I know
I used to social engineer on the game from nothing
I became one of the top dogs of the game.
And I would become a Admin on alot of servers.
At one point in time I started working with 2 other people
I wont mention who though we started to come up with some
Ideas and then code them. The Graal Level Editor used
C++ for it\'s scripts so we started to design a script that
would send us the server username and password
we posted the script on bulliten boards and hide the code
by using useless code that C++ ignored it was risky buissnes
for us but before we knew it we had taken over allmost
every graal server and on top of that we had a 50mb
list of encrypted passwords from graal. We started becoming netoruious and before we knew it.
We had a law suite on our hands at this time Mr
Stephan Potha was very genarous and he let us off
We had to shut any websites we ran and trainers that
we had made public.
If it was not for me and some other people using
the \"we are making the game better excuse\" Graal online
(that is 5 years old now) may not have any trainers for it
To this day some very smart people can have unlimited gold.
I feel sorry for Mr Portha he updates he\'s client allmost every month.
A word of Advice dont even let cheating start it will get worse
sorry for the bad Grammar and english I\'m very tired
-End.
-
wow I wonder if anyone even read that?
-
I did 8o
I think you have a good point. Perhaps its a simple rule if they still want cheater\'s to \"make the game better\". They have to report it themselves. Anyone who is found out or reported by someone else is given no breaks.
It is still beta though so it is our purpose to \"break the game\" so the devs can make it unbreakable ( or less breakable at least) for future releases no?
-
Originally posted by Fiere
It is still beta though so it is our purpose to \"break the game\" so the devs can make it unbreakable ( or less breakable at least) for future releases no?
Only if it is made absolutely sure that nothing will enter the game from the beta. Otherwise, we\'ll end up with a greatly magnified version of the crystal problem of MB.
Furthermore, what if, as Nikolia indicated, ppl. gather passwords? Players aren\'t going to change their passwords upon re-creation of the accounts.
Cheating and exploits must therefore be tested locally only. There is nothing wrong with encountering something when playing normally, but to test it, use localhost or report it immediately. If anyone is caught not reporting or exploiting, then we must hit them as hard as we can.
I also think that rewards are unnecessary, and no ingame rewards must be given IMO.
-
Originally posted by Nikolia
wow I wonder if anyone even read that?
I read it alright.
It is indeed so that cheating inevitably paves the way to more cheating.
As long as PS is in active development, some cheaters can be considered testers, that is that they find a hole, report it and don\'t exploit it anymore...
Yeah right, the truth is, if the hole is not closed, there\'s really no reason for the tester to stop testing the same place, after all there could be more neat side effects just waiting to be found...
In short, good cheaters are only useful if the game (mgmnt, dev) is prepared to fix the bugs quickly. Currently that isn\'t the case. Currently it\'s we\'ll just scare all the cheaters with a db wipe. When PS is released it might work. I hope it will.
I personally can\'t decide whether it\'s even possible to play the game and do any of the out-of-game things, like moderating or testing at the same time.