PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: virsophus on October 04, 2004, 06:04:30 pm
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I find MMORPGs or any RPGs for that matter have little or no blood. Is there some sort of law i\'m not aware of? Well in any case I\'d like to see more blood when I\'m killing (makes it more satisfying) or being killed. Also when your health is low, it would be neat if your character actually looked beat up.
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In order to reach the maximum number of potential players, it makes sense for any MMO game to have the lowest age rating possible. PlaneShift has many players younger than 14 years old; so if we were to see this in the future, it would definitely be an optional setting.
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http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10232&boardid=11&styleid=2&sid=589747d46837a9524099852661d03414
I wished this that you might disregard the healthbar where you should be able to see on any person if he/she looks injured of poisioned, perhaps a bit pale of poisioning?
elaborate this PLEASE!
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This works great in a text-based game, but it\'s gonna be a li\'l harder in PS, and definitely not a priority.
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I think that there should be a system that asks your age when you run the game fer the first time. So it would cencor the game correctly for different age groups.
1-6 = No ability to play the game whatsoever.
7-9 = All gore cencored as well as profanity.
10-13 = Some blood effects and mild profanity.
14-ADULT = Ability to cut heads off... full profanity...
I also recommend sencoring some parts of the game. So that little kidswould not go to scary places or engage in combat with err... zombies...
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Profanity? Not real profanity I hope, but something that involves roleplay, and even then it should be limited...
Also, don\'t you think that people will lie about their age to outsmart the system?
Graphic violence is truly unnecessary, and wouldn\'t add to the roleplay world, which is exactly what Yliakum is trying to become.
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Xero: I don\'t know where you live, but in most civilised countries, 14 is NOT an adult age. 18+ is universally considered the maximum range by many game rating organisations, such as the ESRB.
And FYI, 1-6 doesn\'t exist. That would be 3+ for educational/learning games.
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I live the United States of America. Here it is hard to find somebody 14 that does not play M rated video games and deos not watch R rated movies... I know ratingz...
Karyuu, maybe you are right someone may outsmart such system, easyly... maybe a test of somewhat or...
I do not think that the game will look good without violence. What will you substitute that effect by? Dead dissapearing into thin air? Sparks flying insted of blood? No ability to behead people? That aint realistic, espieccially if I am gonna play the way I want to...
PS, please call me Coga...
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Originally posted by Enter_the_Xero
I live the United States of America. Here it is hard to find somebody 14 that does not play M rated video games and deos not watch R rated movies... I know ratingz...
Karyuu, maybe you are right someone may outsmart such system, easyly... maybe a test of somewhat or...
I do not think that the game will look good without violence. What will you substitute that effect by? Dead dissapearing into thin air? Sparks flying insted of blood? No ability to behead people? That aint realistic, espieccially if I am gonna play the way I want to...
PS, please call me Coga...
Ahem! Persons of age 14 or under engaging in activity relating to \"M\" rated console and/or computer games, and/or observing motion pictures with a rating of \"R\" are the result of poor parenting. I will not permit planeshift to have realistic beheadings so long as I have any influence over the course of development.
Any system is easily outsmarted, foo\'. Systems that are not easily deceived and are based on computers tend to involve heavy restrictions, which are unacceptable.
A little blood won\'t hurt, but it must not be overdone. Corpses dissappearing would be acceptable given limitations of the engine. I do not want to see the sickening image of a rotting corspe.
No ability to behead would be a good thing, I do not see how you fail to understand that. You aren\'t planning on taking hostages and filming said beheadings in a mockery of terrorist radicals in Iraq, are you?
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Originally posted by Monketh
You aren\'t planning on taking hostages and filming said beheadings in a mockery of terrorist radicals in Iraq, are you?
That is just plain WRONG! What is wrong with you?!!
PS, I think that corpses disappearing is the best idea for the battles... if this game is gonna be for all age groups...
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Ah, so he understands why we don\'t want beheadings now, then. :)
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Originally posted by Enter_the_Xero
Originally posted by Monketh
You aren\'t planning on taking hostages and filming said beheadings in a mockery of terrorist radicals in Iraq, are you?
That is just plain WRONG! What is wrong with you?!!
PS, I think that corpses disappearing is the best idea for the battles... if this game is gonna be for all age groups...
Yes, something is wrong with me, I like politics. That was the first immediate abuse of the ability I foresaw. Not to mention that it is grotesque, grizzly, and unnecessarily bloody to begin with.
This game is currently intended to be for all age groups. Dissappearance solves several issues.
+It strains the server less with broadcasting that position to clients (reduces real lag slightly)
+It strains client-side computers less because they do not have to render that object (reduces render lag)
+It solves the problem of how to depict a fallen character (no ethical & conservative values & gross-out vs. realism issues)
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I agree. We shouldn\'t have really grotesque things. If you want that, go play DOOM3 or something.
Maybe we could have a \'death\' position, which you collapse to when you die and dissapear (maybe sink into the ground?) after about 30 seconds/when the engine decides (FPS too low, etc).
And we should maybe make blood (if any) an optional compile setting; most 10 year olds wouldn\'t know how to set that.
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Keknehv: That\'s what happens when you die in CB. You fall to the ground in a death animation, and after a few seconds, you are transported to the Death Realm.
If there\'s gonna be a blood option, it shouldn\'t only be accessable through compiling. It isn\'t only 10 year olds who have no idea how to compile from source; from what I\'ve seen in Freenode #planeshift, it\'s a bloody awkward thing to attempt. :P Just another setting in the Options page would do fine.
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Hey, when killing somebody they should drop all their possesions (like in diablo). Right? Or would that be unfair in somesort of a way?
Makin\' blood an optional setting sounds ok.
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There are much better ways to have realistic injuries and the such without all the gore. Things like limping and such can add to the roleplay atmosphere where as slicing someones arm off doesnt.
Gore is one of things I think the devs will try to keep to a minimum.
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It surely would have to do with kids playing the game as it has already been stated..but perhaps there should be no option for blood in game. It should just be there but not in ridiculous ammounts..take a slice across the face have a mark left there take a whip to the back show a few slashes. No need for Kill Bill type of bloodie gore.
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Originally posted by Syzerian
There are much better ways to have realistic injuries and the such without all the gore. Things like limping and such can add to the roleplay atmosphere where as slicing someones arm off doesnt.
Gore is one of things I think the devs will try to keep to a minimum.
Yes, limping and scars are a great idea IMO!
Limping and other defects, close to limping (arm in the broken-arm position - the right angles, or hanging down), holding oneself by the ribs, if they\'re broken etc. etc. ...that would increase the roleplaying factor by quite a bit! ...and since it\'s only done with skeletal animation and there\'s no need for extra textures it would be pretty resource-friendly, I think :]
Scars could be drawn as an aditional texture on the damaged part od the body (like with the more-layered clothing)
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If there is going to be blood I would like a setting to turn it off. however I do not mind scars & limping... some people may just get all bloody & try to stay that way to annoy ppl... & I really do not like seeing gushing blood when you swing your sword etc. I think however realistic it is it just isn\'t something I\'m all that interested in. It detracts from the game\'s main purpose like others have said...
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I was originally thinking of the scar/limp thing and maybe a little blood.. you know like in morrowind, just a little \"poof\" of blood when you hit something (not kill bill style gross). I hope in my first posting i didnt sound like i wanted it to be gory.
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If you guys really want that blood so badly then why don\'t you make your own \"added blood\" modification to satisfy your bloodlust.
In some games blood might be fun but is it fun to see every monster bleeding and painting the walls and floors red. And if you just keep beheading some monsters will it be any fun after 10 beheadings ?
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Well I posted my thoughts in the other thread... but basically...
- scuffs and marked armour.
- limping, holding an arm, bent over shuffle depending on location and seriously low health.
- a blood trail and something to indicate a hit like a few particles of blood, (that may cause damage... to show you are bleeding to death) but can be bandaged or treated.
- an option for a parental lock, password protected for gore.
- in the options have the \'gore\' configurable and auto set the blood off or lowest setting. (maybe allow configuration for blood colour)
I wouldn\'t mind the way it was handled similar to Morrowind or Gothic (I or II). Not interested in losing appendages at least haven\'t thought about it.. if it was too disable a big insect creature maybe... but sounds out of place for what I had in mind.
One thing I\'d hate is excluding any damage indication what so ever. User choice would be better in my opinion, have it configurable to what you prefer.
Allow an adult to scale down graphics and lock the settings with a password (assuming good parenting) for minors.
I don\'t believe every monster needs to have red blood either.
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Yeah, I\'d have to agree, blood is a terrible idea. It is incredibly apparent that blood is by all means not necessary to have a good mmorpg (or even just a good game for that matter). It adds nothing to gameplay, and just eats fps with needless effects. PS just doesn\'t have any room for gore. Including Al.
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No room for gore at all? very strange remark....
Gore in a game sense is a very broad term, I find a simple blood trail very useful in games such as gothic for hunting. If I shoot a creature with an arrow in the woods and lose sight of it the trail of drips becomes extremely useful in tracking it down.
In other games seeing when a person requires a heal spell on them is quicker done through visual then turning to them and looking for a hud indicator to tell me their health is low. Allowing me to heal them before they die.
In close combat if there is no gore then fine but how am I to tell I hit? will the creature flash... oh yay. Will it have a bar that slowly goes down above it... am I guaranteed to see this bar? do I care? or will I be concentrating on hitting it and wanting to see my hits registering?
I believe there is room for gore in PS if it is done correctly.
*Edit : spelling mistake
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I find a simple blood trail very useful in games such as gothic for hunting.
I have never heard of an online game that in-depth. Then the server has to tell everyone where the blood trail is, and that eats up bandwidth (probably, not that I\'d know).
In other games seeing when a person requires a heal spell on them is quicker done through visual then turning to them and looking for a hud indicator to tell me their health is low.
I could not disagree more. I have never played a game, especially an online game, where looking at a person\'s visual damage was quicker than looking at a hud indicator. Not only that, I would bet it is way more innacurate. If the person is in your group, then they will have a hud indicator there anyway, and you won\'t need to turn to look at them. I\'ve played EQ for years, and trust me, a hud indicator can be _very_ quick.
In close combat if there is no gore then fine but how am I to tell I hit?
There are a plethora of ways. A chat message, a sound, seeing the target\'s health indicator drop, seeing the target do a hit animation.
am I guaranteed to see this bar? do I care? or will I be concentrating on hitting it and wanting to see my hits registering?
I wouldn\'t see why you couldn\'t. I guess it all depends on how combat ends up working. I would probably be fine with the Morrowind way of doing it (a tiny, very brief, cloud of red mist) so long as that is as far as it goes. Beyond that, any gore will automatically be turned off on my my machine. My processor clocks can be better spent.
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Originally posted by ArcaneFalcon
I have never heard of an online game that in-depth. Then the server has to tell everyone where the blood trail is, and that eats up bandwidth (probably, not that I\'d know).
Gothic isn\'t an online game the idea is the same, if you know the creatures health and its location and you are near it the client can create the trail for you create the decals with a life able to be set by the client (you set decal limit life etc). Many online FPS use this to great effect.
I could not disagree more. I have never played a game, especially an online game, where looking at a person\'s visual damage was quicker than looking at a hud indicator. Not only that, I would bet it is way more innacurate. If the person is in your group, then they will have a hud indicator there anyway, and you won\'t need to turn to look at them. I\'ve played EQ for years, and trust me, a hud indicator can be _very_ quick.
You assume this is only for a party based scenario. I would prefer not to be covered in stats of my friends especially in a guild war of 30+ members. So while I see your point and you are welcome to disagree I still fail to see how you can so easily dismiss this having only considered one scenario you are immeidately familiar with :/ .
There are a plethora of ways. A chat message, a sound, seeing the target\'s health indicator drop, seeing the target do a hit animation.
I don\'t want to know the health I want feedback to a hit. A health indicator is not always cover this especially if I hit so little on a high hp creature (eg I hit for 1% creature damage I won\'t be able to tell if I hit by that alone). As for a msg there are enough msgs already not to take advantage of a visual message. Last thing I would want is to always have to read a result while in combat.
I wouldn\'t see why you couldn\'t. I guess it all depends on how combat ends up working. I would probably be fine with the Morrowind way of doing it (a tiny, very brief, cloud of red mist) so long as that is as far as it goes. Beyond that, any gore will automatically be turned off on my my machine. My processor clocks can be better spent.
So your not totally against a bit of gore, and there is a place for it in PS, it all comes down to how you implement it and how its used.
*edit*
^ with the ability to customize it to your taste */edit*
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Another idea for having a mist like health indicator is to use the system from the game Oni.
Basically, everytime you hit an enemy a circular mist with color going from red to green and to blue indicate the target\'s relative health. Blue means full health. Green means high health, and pregress towards red and finally bright red means very low health (one or two hit will finish it off),
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if you know the creatures health and its location
and so if I know the creature\'s location, why would I need a blood trail to find it?
You assume this is only for a party based scenario.
Apparently you have never seen a raid in EQ. Small raids in EQ are about 20, most are 30-60, and have even gotten as large as 150+ (plane of fire raids back in the Kunark days, and sleeper!). Not to mention the frequent quild war battles that take place on the PVP servers.
In other games seeing when a person requires a heal spell on them is quicker done through visual then turning to them and looking for a hud indicator to tell me their health is low.
I don\'t get this statement (2 posts ago). It is quicker done through visual than through turning to look at a hud indicator? That makes no sense. A hud indicator can be put on your screen when you *aren\'t looking at them. If a visual indicator is the only way now you HAVE to turn to look at them to see their health, which is apparently what you were trying to get away from in the first place.
I would prefer not to be covered in stats of my friends especially in a guild war of 30+ members.
I feel sorry for your friends. A guild war doesn\'t necessarily imply a large battle like that, but if a brawl like that does happen, first, you won\'t need to keep track of the stats of all 30 members, just the health of the ones doing the melee. For them you will NEED hud indicators to keep track of it all, you can\'t constantly be panning around to see everyone\'s health. I\'m sorry, but a visual indicator of health is no justification for gore. Plenty of games have become perfectly popular without it, and PS can easily become one of them.
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Originally posted by ArcaneFalcon
and so if I know the creature\'s location, why would I need a blood trail to find it?
Client wise not you per say perhaps I didn\'t articulate that well enough... let me say it differently.
The client program is responsible for creating the blood when near the creature (as the normal data sent like its location and health is already known). The client can then start creating the droplets (blood decals) with a lifetime before they disappear.
Hopefully you\'ll get what I meant this time....
Apparently you have never seen a raid in EQ. Small raids in EQ are about 20, most are 30-60, and have even gotten as large as 150+ (plane of fire raids back in the Kunark days, and sleeper!). Not to mention the frequent quild war battles that take place on the PVP servers.
Wonderful, no point?
I don\'t get this statement (2 posts ago). It is quicker done through visual than through turning to look at a hud indicator? That makes no sense. A hud indicator can be put on your screen when you *aren\'t looking at them. If a visual indicator is the only way now you HAVE to turn to look at them to see their health, which is apparently what you were trying to get away from in the first place.
It does make sense if you consider using a cursor or crosshair (a selector if you will) the health could be visualised with a hud displayed health for that player;
such as how the name is currently displayed with mb.
This as opposed to seeing the character in the peripherial while engaged with another opponent.
Being familiar with this concept in many games I\'ve played I spoke with it in mind to prove there is a place in PS with some amount or gore.
I feel sorry for your friends. A guild war doesn\'t necessarily imply a large battle like that, but if a brawl like that does happen, first, you won\'t need to keep track of the stats of all 30 members, just the health of the ones doing the melee. For them you will NEED hud indicators to keep track of it all, you can\'t constantly be panning around to see everyone\'s health. I\'m sorry, but a visual indicator of health is no justification for gore. Plenty of games have become perfectly popular without it, and PS can easily become one of them.
? Um... no as I walk through a battle I would like to see immediately if others are near death in order to aid them, its as simple as that. This doesn\'t need much visualisation contrary to what you seem to think.
I don\'t see why everyone needs to be looking like they are in perfect health with only health indicators above their head or on a hud... soley in order to satisfy you. Thats why I suggest have an upper limit on gore make it appropriate, able to be limited removed etc and make as many people as happy as possible.
I\'m not going to continue to say this for much longer, you said there is no place for gore, that is a bs statement (a big statement ;) ).
I am mearly saying there is... so you can disagree all you like; however there are many valid uses for it, as you yourself later stated.
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... no place for grass as well. It doesn\'t add to gameplay because you can\'t use it for anything. It serves no purpose and only wastes your processing power.
Wait, grass adds to ambience, and to realosm, and it looks nice (to some). But, oh, that\'s the same thing as with blood, isn\'t it?
So, even if it doesn\'t serve any practical purpose (like quick access to health stats, or whatever), it IMO adds to ambience and realism, therefore I want it. Iwasn\'t going to post this here because I had already done so on the other thread:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10232&boardid=11&styleid=2&sid=589747d46837a9524099852661d03414
Originally posted by Seytra
I respect the wish to turn it off, but apart from this it would IMO have to be an option for the graphics settings anyway, for performance reasons.
I like it if it doesn\'t get out of hand (i.e. no fountains of blood which would drain you in less than a minute).
So it depends on how it\'s implemented, and I\'d really like to have an option to fine-tune it to my taste. And I\'d like it to be more realistic than some mysterious colored mist, that\'s as unrealistic as the hovering health bar (which doesn\'t mean that the bar isn\'t useful!). I also don\'t need beheadings (how often are you beheading someone, anyway?), or chopped-off limbs (how are you going to justify it to heal when you sleep? OK, regeneration might be the key, but anyway.) and also I don\'t need to see the effects of a fireball that would be realistic (not nice at all), but some sort of damage-dependant visual injury would be nice.
There should be a parental lock and blood should be off by default.
Of course there is development effort required for it, but there also is for anything else. I may want blood, you may not. I may want azure magic, you may not. But, as long as there is a significant number of players who want it (which seems to be the case here), the effort is justified IMO.
While other games may have done fine without blood, they have done so without unique characters and even without graphics at all. The question is whether it was because of no demand or because of no availability.
I don\'t say it\'s necessary for PS, I don\'t even say it\'s going to help or hinder it, all I say is that it is my personal wish to have it done, and in a \"good\" way.
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Let me just say one thing.
I\'m tired of freakin\' HUD health-bars! How do you expect to have any realism with a bar floating of somebody\'s head! They\'re bloody everywhere!
I want my HUD to be at least slightly \"transparent\", \"hidden\". I do not want to see health bars, or colored mists over my target. No. That is done in too many other games. Perhaps it would be convenient in large battles, but other than that, a different indicator, maybe at the bottom of the screen, would be nice.
Death to overly futuristic HUD\'s in midieval themed games.
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Originally posted by Enter_the_Xero
I think that there should be a system that asks your age when you run the game fer the first time. So it would cencor the game correctly for different age groups.
1-6 = No ability to play the game whatsoever.
7-9 = All gore cencored as well as profanity.
10-13 = Some blood effects and mild profanity.
14-ADULT = Ability to cut heads off... full profanity...
Ok... but there is nothing that prevents a person to type in a false age. Usually, everybody who encounters a window that says \"enter you birthdate\" puts in something that makes them significantly older because they prob know that there is something that they don\'t want you to see. Plus, I do not think that there should be gore/profanity. If you want that, go play by yourself. It would totally ruin the moment and make this game seem extremely immature and not serious. Maybe a little light blood, for the sake of realism, but nothing that would be so over the top. MMORPG are meant for all ppl to enjoy and it\'s pupose is to create a world where you can forget about whats going on now. Blood and profanity is totally unsesarry and not the point of the game. Ok, I think I said all I wanted...
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Originally posted by hook
arm in the broken-arm position
I\'d rather see some \"blood-poofs\" then an arm hangin\' freakingly wrong!
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imo i think that we should have more blood to have less a higher age rating, planeshift has enough players and it doesnt need to usual kiddy noob stuff which other games have.
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You do know a higher age rating means more interest from the kiddos? PS is free to download, the only ones who could controll for the the age rating are the parents. The only effect is we get more kiddos, since lots of parents dont even look on the age ratings when they buy their kids some games in a store.
Edit: If you dont want kiddos go for a low age rating. Also if the age rating is really high, there may be additional problems like access regulation even for websites(you know like for adult content).