PlaneShift
Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: McPseudo on October 06, 2004, 07:48:32 pm
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Hi there.
First I want to greet all the users here I am new at Planeshift and in modelling too. By the way excuse my bad english I come from Germany. xD
My first model is a Bow. I don\'t invent a name for it. Maybe \"Crystalbow\" is a good one.
I don\'t have a texture yet but it is in work. Before I make a texture it will be great when you critize it or something.
http://img72.exs.cx/img72/2939/Crystalbow.png
What command should I type in if I want to display the Picture in the Post? [img...[/img] don\'t works...
Greetz
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You write [img(remove)]url[/img] :) Also, nicely done there :) Depending on the material, the name is quite good :) It does indeed look like it\' made of some sort of crystal ;)
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I like it, but it is so angular it doesn\'t seem like it would work... when you string a bow you have to bend it, but it looks like it would just snap at those angles. If possible, could you make a slightly bigger render? I can\'t really see it in detail to see whether those are separate pieces lashed together or are connected seamlessly...
one last little thing... I applaud your adherence to forum ettiquette by trying to speak in good english, but when you say \"Greetz\" at the end it sound kind of immature :P Nothing personal, and most people wouldn\'t care but it just bugs me ;)
josePhoenix
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http://img16.exs.cx/img16/1553/Crystalbows.png
(maximise the window for seeing it in full size)
Ok, this is a bigger image. Wings 3D is good for modelling but do you know a program wich makes good animations?
I want to stretch the Bow a little when the player shots.
When I type in the [img(without this)]...[/img] command and click on \"Edit Post\" or \"apply\" there is a error message on the top of the text window:
One or more fields were not filled out correctly!
What can I do to ignore that?
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It looks good for just starting. One thing you should work on though, is getting the shaft to be one complete piece. Right now it looks like a bunch of intersecting tubes. Also, I\'m not sure what the poly count is, but it looks like that may need some work as well (keeping in mind that I am somewhat of a beginner myself). Keep up the good work, it looks much better than the stuff I made when I first started. *begins to cry just thinking of what he used to make
I\'m getting the same error with the image, maybe it\'s a forum error?
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The error is because the clueless forum doesn\'t know that PNG is an image format. It recognises jpg and gif, however.
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looking good...
I like it however I am clueless when it comes to wings..
I\'m just going to stick with 3DsMax...
Can\'t wait to see it textured...
& yes, It does look like there are lots of unneeded Polys, that sort of thing can be put into the texture...
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First, thank you for your postings. I modell around a bit and now I am nearly finished. The only thing I need is a good Program for texturing the Bow. I only have one-color textures because Wings3D is a difficult program when the texturing comes into play...
Well, here is a pic:
(http://img48.exs.cx/img48/6153/Bow_finished.jpg)
It has 1730 vertices. Are this too much? Don\'t know how much Planeshift supports...
Hm, how do you like it? And could anybody tells me a good program for texturing? Would be helpful...
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I think 1730 is way too much. A whole character is about 2000 - 3000 AFAIK. I think things like weapons should be around 500 at most. (I don\'t know much about models, though)
As has been stated earlier, there are lots of unneeded polys there: the spikes and lines, for example. While these certainly look nice, they\'d not be visible ingame anyway, because you only very seldomly look that close at a bow, and can be put into the texture with only minor decrease in looks.
I don\'t know about the joints: they don\'t look like they could actually handle the forces placed upon them by drawing the bow. Also, are the large, pink arms getting bent as well? If not, the power of this bow would be very low AFAICS.
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Yes, 1730 verts is way to many for a bow (btw, it would also be nice to have the poly (triangle) count). A complicated bow should have 500, and probably less. If you have seen my pterosaur thread, my entire pterosaur has 490 vertices, and 1040 polys. That is a bit of an odd situation, because usually the vert/poly count is pretty similar. I would recommend getting this down to at most 250-300 polys. How can you do this? Take all the round pieces, and give them 6-8 sides (8 sides for the bigger ones). The string you should use 3 sides on. Right now, they look perfectly round which means lots of polys. Also, on the spikes, I would say to reduce the count to 4-8 bigger spikes per end, rather than the 10-20 it looks like you have now. You could even just make it flat on the end (no spikes at all) and then use a texture with a transparency and you can add all those little spikes back in. Keep up the good work, it really does look great for your first piece!
:emerald:
edit: it\'s 1730 verts, I had 1300. Kid can\'t even read!
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Ok, I swap the high poly objects on the model with middle poly ones. =) Now the bow has 840 polys. I think that\'s much but I can\'t make this number smaller... The arms with the spikes on it can\'t be make low poly.
Well, here\'s the newest picture of it:
(http://img75.exs.cx/img75/2781/bow2.jpg)
A question: could anybody help me with texturing? I\'ll get 3Dmax at christmas, so I don\'t have a good prog to make skins for the model. It would be nice if someone could do that.
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Someone can\'t do a skin for you unless they have your uv map layout on an image file. For instance, the skin for an eyeball looks like this (http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/psimages/eye5.jpg) . We need your uv map layout so the correct pieces can be put in the correct spot. I\'ve never used wings 3d, so I couldn\'t tell you how to do this. If you can get me the uv though, I\'d be happy to make you a skin. One program you can use to do this that is free is called the gimp. It\'s near photoshop quality, and is free source. Just do a google search for \"gimp\" and you\'ll find it, I\'m sure.
And yes, 840 is still too many. Perhaps you can replace the pieces with the spikes? That would be ideal.
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I like this, and they are right, keep it under 500, as low as possible. Good work though, I am currently learning 3dsmax6 myself... I can\'t afford it, downloaded it, and working way through tutes.
As for this bow not working, that\'s not true, not at all. The arms do not have to bend if the string has a high enough tensile strength, even if they had to bend, perhaps crystals in Yliakum are flexible, who knows?
I think it could fire, current bows are made of metal and they work fine.
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The idea is that you include details like spikes in a texture for the model. And in modelling for a game, textures can make or break a model.
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Originally posted by Adeli
As for this bow not working, that\'s not true, not at all. The arms do not have to bend if the string has a high enough tensile strength, even if they had to bend, perhaps crystals in Yliakum are flexible, who knows?
This might be.
Originally posted by Adeli
I think it could fire, current bows are made of metal and they work fine.
Of course they do, because the metals are specially made to be flexible and have spring properties! Crossbows have been made from metal for ages.
If the string has great tensile strength, the firing would be inaccurate unless it\'s highly symmetrical. Otherwise, it\'d contract differently above and below the arrow, changing it\'s firing angle when contracting.
Still, that\'d still be way less powerful than if the arms of the bow provide the tension, which is the only reason why bows are made from flexible stuff. The tensile strength of a string IMO can\'t even come near the power that a flexible bow of the same size can create.
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I find I must concede to your point. Very well. Let\'s assume this crystal has flexibility then shall we? Whether it be by means natural or magical.
I cannot argue about the bows, but I have seen crossbows fashioned from metal that is not very flexible, and it has more power than most bows, able to punch a hole through platemail at distance.
Also, I thought All bows were symmetrical? Or else they\'d not work.
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Originally posted by Adeli
Let\'s assume this crystal has flexibility then shall we? Whether it be by means natural or magical.
Yes. I\'d prefer the non-magical way, because otherwise almost nobody would ever possess such a bow. :)
Originally posted by Adeli
I cannot argue about the bows, but I have seen crossbows fashioned from metal that is not very flexible, and it has more power than most bows, able to punch a hole through platemail at distance.
There are bows that aren\'t very flexible as well, the important thing isn\'t the ease of bending, but the properties of the material itself. You can make a spring that can be bent only by extreme forces, but it still is flexible (flexibility means that it will bend, not break, like an iron bar vs. a bar of granite). Something with flexibility may or may not have tensile strength (i.e., it may try to regain it\'s original form, or it may just stay the way you bent it). Something without flexibility, however, cannot have any tensile strength, because it\'ll just break.
Just look at the springs that are being used for cars. You\'ll not be able to bend them any significant distance by your hands, but if you use a motor or lever forces (as in crossbows) to bend it, it\'s tensile strength can be converted into extremely high power for the projectile. This is the way both crossbows and normal bows operate. Crossbows, however, are more easy to use because you don\'t need to hold the string in position yourself, this is done by some metal pin. Therefore, you can make it\'s tensile strength way greater, because you don\'t need to hold it. Also, there are bows (english longbows and modern bows with special mechanics) that can also pierce platemail. In fact, the arrows can even penetrate the metal reinforcement bars of buildings (I know of one arrow that still is stuck in such an H-bar)!
Originally posted by Adeli
Also, I thought All bows were symmetrical? Or else they\'d not work.
Yes, I was referring to the string. If the tensile strength came from it, it needs to contract absolutely symmetrical to allow for precise firing. The bows need to be symmetrical, as well, but this is more easily achieved than with the string. Sorry for not being precise.
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Thankyou for the correction Seytra, I was looking at it pretty narrowmindedly. You are once more, correct.
As for the symmetry thing, no apology necessary it was my misunderstanding, not your mistake.
I too prefer flexibility by means non-magical.
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First thanks for your answers.
I think you are right when you say the Bow is unflexible. The UV map I made for this Bow was a chaos because of the spikes. I deleted this model and make a new one. Now without any spikes and with flexible arms. I named it Enkudai Bow, but the name is not fixed yet.
This time there are less polys than last time. Now there are 388 Polygons and 488 vertices. I think that is less enough, isn\'t it?
Well, here are some pictures:
(http://img52.exs.cx/img52/8346/Enkudai_Bow2.jpg) (http://img89.exs.cx/img89/876/Enkudai_Bow.jpg)
And here is the result of UV mapping:
(http://img77.exs.cx/img77/7773/Netz_Enkudai_Bow2.jpg)
If anybody could make a texture for it, that would be very nice. I\'m a noob in texturing.
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I love the new bow design! Somehow, however, I have a hard time believing it is 388 tris. When it counted your polys it was probably counting faces, and not triangles. Every square face has 2 triangles, etc. Looking at your uv unwrap it looks like every face is 2 triangles, making your bow 776 tris. I think that\'s also hinted at by the fact that there are 488 verts. Usually there are more tris than verts. It\'s certainly much better, but still too much I think. I know you can eliminate a good 40-50 by making the tan/orange handle have fewer sides (6-8 max). Also, I see circles and ovals that look like caps to different pieces. Because those are on the inside of the bow they can be deleted because you can\'t see them. That will also greatly help reduce polys. Your uv unwrap looks like a good starting point, but it needs to be cleaned up. Things that go next to each other should be stitched together, like pieces can be stacked, etc. In the end there should be only 6-8 different pieces. Also, what are those ^ pieces? I can\'t figure out where they would go on the model. Any poly that you can\'t see on the outside can be and should be deleted. It really does look a lot better, though, keep up the great work!
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just do what i do to texture... bung alot of colours onto a .bmp and then scale, stretch and flip the mesh till it looks right :)
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just do what i do to texture... bung alot of colours onto a .bmp and then scale, stretch and flip the mesh till it looks right
Uuuhh...I\'m not quite sure what it means to \"bung a lot of colours onto a .bmp\" but I\'m pretty sure that\'s not how you\'re supposed to do it. Once the UV gets prettied up I\'ll make a skin, and then McPseudo can see how skinning should be done.
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Thx Arcane Falcon.
Wings3D says it has 572 Polys. A bit too much right? I try to improve it and delete any Polygons wich are useless. The ^ are important, because these are the polys wich are on both of the two torus bodys.
I tryed to make a texture by myself! Ok, it don\'t looks good, but this is my first texture. I made a better UV Map for my model wich is better then the last one.
(http://img98.exs.cx/img98/8073/EB.jpg)
This is the model with my terrible texture. xD
The UV Maps are these ones:
(http://img95.exs.cx/img95/4497/EBCT.th.jpg) (http://img95.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img95&image=EBCT.jpg)
That\'s the textured Bow.
(http://img29.exs.cx/img29/4750/EBUV.th.jpg) (http://img29.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img29&image=EBUV.jpg)
This is the original UV.
Please continue posting. =)
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Hey, that\'s not bad at all! Yes, there are still some polys I see that can be deleted. For instance, the ends on the gray handle part will never be seen, and neither will the oval ends that are in between the greenish sections. You should have a total of 4, circular, greenish ends. The ovals and the white circles can go. Also, I really think you should reduce the number of sides on the white handle part.
Now that you have a bunch of materials as the texture, see if you can add some details to the skin now. For instance, if I were making a tank, the camo green would be the base material, and things like rivets, vents, handles, and scratches would all be things I would make as details to the skin. It is really coming along, I\'m very impressed that this is your first try at modeling. Looks excellent! 8)
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Hello back.
I improve the texture and I think I am finished with my first project now. The only thing missing are some animations of stretching or breaking the bow. Can anybody tell me a good program to animate models? This would be nice.
Well, here is the finished model with some symbols on it\'s arms. Now the model has only 362 Polygons. It was hard to reduce the polys and I think I can\'t hold it lower than 362.
(http://img93.exs.cx/img93/8073/EB.jpg)
I am a bit proud of it,
because all starts with
a simple grey cube. xD
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This one looks really nice (especially with the symbols). There is really a lot of improvement from the first post of this topic till today.
Maybe one more thing for the texture: on the ovals, where the string is connected to them, maybe you want to draw a black line around the oval end (so that it looks like the string is tied around the oval not just coming out from somewhere).
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Thank you for this hint. I made what you say and draw a black line at the end of the oval where string and oval are connected. I draw another line on the other side so it looks better imo. =)
Here is a Pic:
(http://img93.exs.cx/img93/5885/EB1.jpg)
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Hey that looks great, quite an improvement!
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Im pretty inexpierenced with modeling and maybe im completely off ,but in your UV map there are alot of circles which i cant find as seeable faces in the model. For example the circles with the handle texture.
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Looks great, except the black line on the oval doesn\'t need to be on both sides, just the side with the string. Regardless, this has certainly turned out great. A big improvement from the beginning!
Oh, and zinder:
ArcaneFalcon: Yes, there are still some polys I see that can be deleted. For instance, the ends on the gray handle part will never be seen, and neither will the oval ends that are in between the greenish sections. You should have a total of 4, circular, greenish ends. The ovals and the white circles can go.
Though I think he deleted those. He dropped 100 or so polys, and this is probably one of the things he did. Noice work! (yeah, \"nice\" wasn\'t strong enough, so I added an \"o\")
:emerald:
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The UV Map I posted is not the newest one. ;)
I have completed my work on this model. I am very happy that so many people gave me hints and tell me improvements. This is a very Newbie friendly Form. xD
Ok, I post some of the Screenshots I made of this model. The newest UV Map and Texture also.
(http://img23.exs.cx/img23/8073/EB.jpg) (http://img98.exs.cx/img98/4725/EB2.jpg) (http://img91.exs.cx/img91/8320/EB3.jpg)
Texture:
(http://img97.exs.cx/img97/1327/EBT.th.jpg) (http://img97.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img97&image=EBT.jpg)
UV Map:
(http://img23.exs.cx/img23/443/EBN.th.jpg) (http://img23.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img23&image=EBN.jpg)
EDIT: Oh I forgot the .3ds file. Download here (http://www.mitglied.lycos.de/gubscher/Enkudai_Bow.3ds) (23 kb)
McPseudo
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why should post it on Laanx Wheel of Wishes:
http://lww.demon-host.com/
But I\'d like to see what else you can do also...
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Thank you.
I register an Account at this site and subminted my mesh already. And I think this is not the last model I create. Next week I am out of my home but after this I\'ll want to make more models...
Greetings
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That\'s great, I\'d suggest making some more stuff like tables furniture etc. then build up to possibly small animals & then eventually (if your good) a Char, or just get good @ animals/ human-like monsters... they are tricky some times...
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I took a look at your model and it had 800 some tris/verts before I started optimizing it. I\'ll post an optimized version when I get it done.
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Ok, I got the bow from 800+ tris to 378/209 tris/verts. I also did a proper uv mapping.
Render:
(http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/psimages/bow/bow1_b.jpg)
Skin:
(http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/psimages/bow/bow_opti.jpg)
zip file containing the model in .max and .3DS, as well as the uv file for max, and my skin: here (http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/psimages/bow/bow.zip)
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Have you made the bow
using Blender 3D?
I was trying to make one but I couldnt find a model and yours is very very good I really like it!!
And if you used blender doing that I couldnt see the possibilities...
Thx for the inspiration!
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i beleive he used wings 3d.
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I do like that bow... it improved so much.