PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Macabre Wolf on October 18, 2004, 01:09:35 am
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I\'ve been playing planeshift for about a month now, and can\'t get enough of the game or it\'s community, but I\'m affraid that when CB comes out for the rest of us, It\'s going to be too big to download. It took me 12 hours (I\'m on a 56k modem) to download Molecular Blue and that\'s without the hitches I came across while downloading so in total it was nigh 14 hours. If there is one thing I don\'t want to do it\'s spend another hellish day downloading, especially if it\'s bigger than MB which by the sounds of it, it will be.
So is there any plans to put CB on disk for a fee ?10-20? Well let me know, thanks.
Macabre Wolf
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Nope. At best, you might get someone to send it to you through mail or get someone else you know to download it with a faster connection, otherwise you\'ll have to download it yourself.
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Not sure what this has to do with Forum Requests but why don\'t you just have someone with a better connection download the client and burn it to disk for you?
EDIT: Guess you beat me to it :P
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Hopefully, the client will be available through BitTorrent which allows you to resume downloading. It will still take you quite a while, but at least you won\'t have to do it in one session.
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Well soon before cb, i hope to work out an agreement with the devs so I can burn PS to multiple cds and sell \'em for about 2-5 bucks + s+h. A good deal I\'d say.
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Somehow, I doubt the devs will agree to that... :rolleyes:
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Why? It gives them money for supplies and such while still making the game free. You are paying for the disk, not for playing the game.
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I think you\'ll find selling the cds is a gross breach of copyright... as it is unlawful distribution, which is by the way... illegal.
So there is no way known, that you will be allowed to do so, and I hope that this means you won\'t do it, not just that you won\'t ask.
As for downloading...
Get a download manager, IceFalcon: BitTorrent does not work well for everyone, and they can get it without getting a torrent.
Use something like FlashGet, it\'s what I use whenever I can\'t find a torrent, it allows you to pause/resume downloads, and if you lose connection, it automatically pauses it. I can\'t find the link to it right now... try http://www.download.com
The best bit for 56kers, is to have generous friends with broadband.
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Originally posted by Adeli
I think you\'ll find selling the cds is a gross breach of copyright... as it is unlawful distribution, which is by the way... illegal.
That is not necessarily correct
imho you are allowed to put standard open source stuff on some disc and sell it, as long as you don\'t make profit with it. Meaning you cannot charge more than the price for the CD-R. I don\'t know about shipping costs though...
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Originally posted by Pogopuschel
That is not necessarily correct
imho you are allowed to put standard open source stuff on some disc and sell it, as long as you don\'t make profit with it. Meaning you cannot charge more than the price for the CD-R. I don\'t know about shipping costs though...
While this is true for the GPL source of PlaneShift and also the compiled versions of those source, this is not true for the PlaneShift art since that uses another license. So you really cannot sell PS CD\'s if they include the art (and without art it is pretty useless).
Greetings,
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How about, he gives you the CD for free, but there is a mutual agreement of how big of a \"gift\" he is getting in return for the favor.
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btw, bittorrent is terribly unusable for 56k users as we are hammered constantly with upload. Our download then ends up crawling to fractions of kb/sec on many downloads.
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if they dont release it through BT, what about using Download Accelerator Plus (http://www.speedbit.com/DAP7/) you can pause your download & resume as you please
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Or use WGet because it is completely free and has no advertising of any kind. It supports resuming through the -c option. Hopefully you know how to use it. ;)
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by Pogopuschel
That is not necessarily correct
imho you are allowed to put standard open source stuff on some disc and sell it, as long as you don\'t make profit with it. Meaning you cannot charge more than the price for the CD-R. I don\'t know about shipping costs though...
While this is true for the GPL source of PlaneShift and also the compiled versions of those source, this is not true for the PlaneShift art since that uses another license. So you really cannot sell PS CD\'s if they include the art (and without art it is pretty useless).
Greetings,
I know, I was merely referring to pure GPL/LGPL software (\"standard open source stuff\" ) :)
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perhaps someone could use a computer with a really high connection speed (or even a personal server if they have one) to host planeshift. then the community could donate money if they want (it would be bad form if he recieved no money for his help)
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A possible solution is to give it away, however, charge three dollars US for shipping and handling. It would avert the whole selling concept and if someone can ship it for less then they can go ahead and do so. That way, the person doing the good service wouldn\'t be out the shipping.
I doubt anyone would do this to make money anyways.
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i think the point was that they dont want you to write the things to cd and distribute them at all. selling them is way outta league.
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How would hosting it on a high speed server help 56k-ers download it faster?
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Hosting it on a high speed server probably wouldn\'t help because the bottle neck is the modem. All internet traffic slows down to the slowest point of transfer.
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
How would hosting it on a high speed server help 56k-ers download it faster?
it would help by having a server that is not swamped by bandwith. it wouldnt be needed long, only after the first 3 weeks of CB\'s release. It may be \"bottle necked\" at the 56k part, but it would if fragnetics went down or the fragnetics got swamped from DLs.
**edit** also it would be nice to have a dedicated bittorrent host, as most people might close thier torrents when they are done. this may not always be on purpose, but just out of habit or accident.
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If needed I can host this on my website without the wait at one site and the not-workingness of the other.
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leave the file downloading overnight for a couple of days. i can do 1 GB in a week on 56K.
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My company Get most of its profit by gathering opensource programs, then put it together into one box(cd). This we Sell. though we does not sell The programs. We sell the time we use to do it. Ie: we use 10 hours to plan and find which progs the customer need. then 5 hours to download them. then burn it out on cd. This we take 500 - 1500$ for.
This is NOT illegal. Neither is it to sell a cd with Planeshift Cb. (if you charges for the Cd, shipment and Time used).
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Originally posted by Andycornell
My company Get most of its profit by gathering opensource programs, then put it together into one box(cd). This we Sell. though we does not sell The programs. We sell the time we use to do it. Ie: we use 10 hours to plan and find which progs the customer need. then 5 hours to download them. then burn it out on cd. This we take 500 - 1500$ for.
This is NOT illegal. Neither is it to sell a cd with Planeshift Cb. (if you charges for the Cd, shipment and Time used).
havent you been listening? the whole point is that planeshift isnt just another game. its got its own specific lisense which says that it shall not have the art distributed or sold for any reason. even if they are non malicious. just face it, no way of distrubuting this unless you go through tons of paper work. and what your work does may not be completely legal in the first place.
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Well, about my Company, it is legal. About burning the cd on a cd then send it to another guy, taking payed for shipment, and Time used to download (this can be, if not legal by licens, be hided under \"rent of Hardware\" or \"rent of human service\".
You can Sell an opensource program which is licensed under The GNU, but, if you do, you must give the customer the same rights. (easy explaining. read It yourself. I will look up the Gnu licens soon, but got no time now)
Edit: i have read all planeshift licens a cuple of times now. and found out that I was Partly wrong. I wasent complete aware that the Art was Custom licens. This would make the Sending of a cd, partly ilegal. If i Distrobuted the Gnu code though...
Anyway. By leting people Download it trough bittorrent. All who do (expect the devs) would do illegal things. Cause you share it while download it.
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Actually if the Dev\'s made a slight change in the license it would be legal, like the art can be distributed freely but not used to make any other content or derivative work.. actually this is something like what I expected the license to say.
I sort of was under the impression that the Dev\'s wer going to allocate a couple of people to seed some Turrets (@ least I remember reading something like that) but I can\'t remember were & can\'t find it now... only the Dev\'s themselves can tell us for sure on this matter however...
Edit: oh ya, like this matters but I think this is a duplicate topic because I remember something like this a while ago.. same exact thing wanting ppl to mail CDs or something like a \"Box Version\"
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Originally posted by Zeraph
Actually if the Dev\'s made a slight change in the license it would be legal
DO you have any idea how long this would take? months maybe years.
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Who said it will ever happen? The devs are perfectly happy with their current liscense as it is.
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(http://mapage.noos.fr/Mayia/images/CBCD.jpg)
[size=-2]by mayia [/size]
You mean this cd ? :D
J/K
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So much talk over nothing.... how can one not be able to get to a high speed internet connection? First there is school(which sometimes has bradband), second there are internet caffes, one can also try at the public library. I even offer to mail free cds for 5 ppl in my country.
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Originally posted by Psycon
So much talk over nothing.... how can one not be able to get to a high speed internet connection? First there is school(which sometimes has bradband), second there are internet caffes, one can also try at the public library. I even offer to mail free cds for 5 ppl in my country.
Many reasons, In some areas the only internet availabe is dailup, in many more broadband is availbe, but at atleast twice the price, and money is tight. Even in areas where the difference is only $5 a month, it may be hard to convice your parents to upgrade just so you can play a game....
I would like to see people who are willing to donate to the Planeshift team offering to burn CB to cds, and mail them to nearby players.
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*finished reading the PS license*
hmm... so, to sum it up:
1) GPL permits you to sell CDs and charge for the labour and costs you had distributing them - or even charge for other services (like a guarantee, tech support, etc. etc.)
2) the PlaneShift license is a lot more restrictive - which is perfectly understandable for an artistic license. But the restrictions don\'t allow us to manipulate or distribute the PS art in any way. Of course if you get the devs\' permission, you can ;) but that\'s (usually) the case with all the licenses and IP [Intellectual Property] rights.
3) actually the license that caught my attention the most is the Joint-Copyright PlaneShift License, although it\'s so short and simple. I like it very much :)) ...great idea guys! It permits the authors of the copyrighted (uder the PS license) material to use their own work in other projects as they wish - as long as it\'s not another MMORPG ...it\'s a kind of a \"competition clause\" (don\'t know how it\'s named in proper english), but with a lot of freedom for the author.
Q: May I sell CDs with PlaneShift?
A: Not unless the devs give you permission. But, as already said, you can sell the GPL\'d source (if that helps you, of course!) without their explicit permission.
Q: May I burn the CDs for a friend of mine who doesn\'t have a broadband?
A: Yes, with the (silent) permission of the devs. And since there has been such cases already in the past and the devs permitted it, it\'s only logical that they won\'t make a fuss about you sharing this CD with your friend.
Q: May I share PlaneShift over P2P or as a download on my server?
A: Erm, that one\'s a bit tricky. Technically SourceForge (http://www.sf.net), which hosts the PS downloads (and project) works with mirrors, but I guess they have the PS devs\' (silent) permission for that. If the devs would give you the permission too, there\'d be no problem.
The more tricky part is the P2P sharing, since they\'d have to permit it to everybody that shares or downloads - and that\'s pretty much the same as canceling out (or at least narrow it in quite a bit) a quite importaint section of the PS license.
Q: May I download PlaneShift from a P2P or another (non-sf.net) server?
A: As long as the PS dev team don\'t permit it, no.
In short: you may not (re)distribute the whole PlaneShift package unless the devs give you the permission for it. I guess with the burning to share with your friend (for free) can be considered ok, since they\'ve already permitted it a few times.
As you can see I\'ve changed all the \"Can\"s in the questions into \"May\"s ...that\'s what law is all about - it can\'t tell you what you have to do, it can just perscribe you what you should or shouldn\'t.
p.s. allthough i can\'t say i\'m a pro on IP law, i am a law student :] if that matters to anyone in this case
p.p.s. yes, we the open-source community do make a big fuzz out of legal problems. why? because we\'re being herrassed about it that much!
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the devs could support those who want to distribute PS further and efficiently by hosting a large file with just the PS art. Then those who buy the CD with the code and ETC on it can drag all of it from the CDs onto thier comp, and DL the 30mgs of art. That would be pretty efficient.
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Originally posted by Psycon
So much talk over nothing.... how can one not be able to get to a high speed internet connection? First there is school(which sometimes has bradband), second there are internet caffes, one can also try at the public library. I even offer to mail free cds for 5 ppl in my country.
I can\'t get broadband because it is not available here. My school does have it but they don\'t allow us to download of the internet, incase of viruses, nevermind burning things onto CD\'s and as far as I know no-one that I know has a broadband connection. So there is a reason for all this talk.
And Mindari I can\'t leave this running overnight, becuase this computer overheats after about six hours, plus the last time I had to check back on it every hour because the download periodically stopped halfway through the file and I had to restart it.
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Originally posted by dannythompson
Originally posted by Zeraph
Actually if the Dev\'s made a slight change in the license it would be legal
DO you have any idea how long this would take? months maybe years.
As owner of my own IT company i know this well, but It wont take That long time, though in this case it would be pointless.
But the idea of distobuting art and code for itself is good. this makes it easyer for People with dialup to get a copy without paying to much.
But, this is up to the devs. I, nor my company will distrobute Planeshift in any way. I said my final word in this case.
p.s. Hook, thanks for writing the Faq thing. i was about to do it, but you beat me to it.
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Originally posted by Macabre Wolf
I can\'t get broadband because it is not available here. My school does have it but they don\'t allow us to download of the internet, incase of viruses, nevermind burning things onto CD\'s and as far as I know no-one that I know has a broadband connection. So there is a reason for all this talk.
And Mindari I can\'t leave this running overnight, becuase this computer overheats after about six hours, plus the last time I had to check back on it every hour because the download periodically stopped halfway through the file and I had to restart it.
ow, that sucks :(
...maybe you could at least fix the overheating problem ...but I\'m pretty sure you could find a kind soul here (maybe even a dev) to send you a copy on a CD via ordinary mail.
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Originally posted by hook
ow, that sucks :(
...maybe you could at least fix the overheating problem ...but I\'m pretty sure you could find a kind soul here (maybe even a dev) to send you a copy on a CD via ordinary mail.
Yeah that\'s why I started this thread, but maybe word of it hasn\'t reached the devs yet. Not so sure about giving out my address to a \'kind soul\' though.
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Thats why it sucks to have dial up...
Took 2 weeks to download WoW Beta
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Originally posted by Macabre Wolf
Originally posted by hook
ow, that sucks :(
...maybe you could at least fix the overheating problem ...but I\'m pretty sure you could find a kind soul here (maybe even a dev) to send you a copy on a CD via ordinary mail.
Yeah that\'s why I started this thread, but maybe word of it hasn\'t reached the devs yet. Not so sure about giving out my address to a \'kind soul\' though.
how about you ask them directly? probably better if you ask them to send you the CB release (when it comes out soon-ish)
irc server: irc.freenode.net
channel: #planeshift
on the side note: do you know what exactly causes the overheating? is it the graphic card or the processor? ...sometimes a small cooler/ventillator can do wonders ;)
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Originally posted by hook
Originally posted by Macabre Wolf
Originally posted by hook
ow, that sucks :(
...maybe you could at least fix the overheating problem ...but I\'m pretty sure you could find a kind soul here (maybe even a dev) to send you a copy on a CD via ordinary mail.
Yeah that\'s why I started this thread, but maybe word of it hasn\'t reached the devs yet. Not so sure about giving out my address to a \'kind soul\' though.
how about you ask them directly? probably better if you ask them to send you the CB release (when it comes out soon-ish)
irc server: irc.freenode.net
channel: #planeshift
on the side note: do you know what exactly causes the overheating? is it the graphic card or the processor? ...sometimes a small cooler/ventillator can do wonders ;)
IRC oh joy, I\'ll give it a try though.
It\'s not the computer that overheats I meant the adapter.
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Macabre Wolf, if you live in Romania give me a PM, I\'ll send you the CD, but don\'t expect to get it as soon as the release is out as I have to get it through a friend too.
PS: school sistem admins could be bribed to get you to use the internet ;)
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You can send all the cd\'s you want, you just can\'t charge for it. Not for the cd and not for spending time copying the game onto the cd. So if you intend to help people by making copies of CB for them, give them a mail address and have them send an envelope with a cd-r(w) or dvd-r(w) in that you can then send back. It\'s the best way to do it without charging anything, and it doesn\'t break the license. :)
Aside from that... No. Noone will let you charge for sending out cd\'s, and you unless you\'re really desperate or have a lot of money to waste, you shouldn\'t waste it on getting a cd. You need to remember that if you are going to recieve it from a foreign country, it can easily take 5-10 days before your mail arrives at his place, and then 5-10 days for him to send it back. That\'s 10-20 days where you can easily download the 200-250MB with a 56k (hevrah downloaded the first installer in less than 24 hours with his 56k, so it is possible).
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Originally posted by Gronomist
You can send all the cd\'s you want, you just can\'t charge for it. Not for the cd and not for spending time copying the game onto the cd. So if you intend to help people by making copies of CB for them, give them a mail address and have them send an envelope with a cd-r(w) or dvd-r(w) in that you can then send back. It\'s the best way to do it without charging anything, and it doesn\'t break the license. :)
Aside from that... No. Noone will let you charge for sending out cd\'s, and you unless you\'re really desperate or have a lot of money to waste, you shouldn\'t waste it on getting a cd. You need to remember that if you are going to recieve it from a foreign country, it can easily take 5-10 days before your mail arrives at his place, and then 5-10 days for him to send it back. That\'s 10-20 days where you can easily download the 200-250MB with a 56k (hevrah downloaded the first installer in less than 24 hours with his 56k, so it is possible).
Well actually it\'s only 5-10 days not 10-20 because you don\'t install it once they have the disk back, or I wouldn\'t, I\'d install it as soon as I get the disk. But I\'ve been told it\'s more like 600MB that\'d take about three days fully connected to the net to download, that means no phone calls or browsing the net. The latter would at least double the time to download so that\'s 6-8 days and that\'s without any problems with disconnecting at night, downloading problems, etc., so for people on 56k a disk is much easier.
This problem has been solved with the devs anyway.
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Yeah, we asked acraig about it and it\'s really upto Talad if he wants to have something like this for the future...
And the download is only 200mb, not 600mb.
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Macabre Wolf, Gronomist was referring to the person who will be receiving CB on cd, not the person copying CB onto a cd... your understanding of it makes no sense anyway... the person copying it, does not have to wait at all after downloading it.
Also where did you hear 600MB?
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Originally posted by Adeli
Macabre Wolf, Gronomist was referring to the person who will be receiving CB on cd, not the person copying CB onto a cd... your understanding of it makes no sense anyway... the person copying it, does not have to wait at all after downloading it.
Also where did you hear 600MB?
I know Gronomist was reffering to the person \'recieving CB on cd\' so was I.
I heard 600MB from acraig.
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Yeah, but you are talking about different schemes.
Seems Gronomist was talking about:
56k sends empty disc-> broadband makes copy on that one and sends disk back to 56k
That needs her estimated time.
Macabre Wolf seems to talk about:
broadband uses own disc to make copy and sends it to 56k -> 56k sends it back after install (and perhaps makes his own copy)
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Originally posted by zinder
Yeah, but you are talking about different schemes.
Seems Gronomist was talking about:
56k sends empty disc-> broadband makes copy on that one and sends disk back to 56k
That needs her estimated time.
Macabre Wolf seems to talk about:
broadband uses own disc to make copy and sends it to 56k -> 56k sends it back after install (and perhaps makes his own copy)
That depends on how you read it, I was reading it as if Gronomist was talking to the devs, you were reading as if gronomist was talking to someone that had downloaded CB. It all depends on how you interpret the post.
So we\'ll leave it at that, or at least I will.
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It\'s 200mb... And acraig did not say cb was 600mb -_- Trust me on this one.
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Originally posted by Xordan
It\'s 200mb... And acraig did not say cb was 600mb -_- Trust me on this one.
That\'s what He said to me on IRC but I\'ll accept 200MB
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The current CB installer is 210,018,054 byte, or 200MB for the not so smart people, and I can\'t see how the music and the other smaller updates will take up 400MB. :)
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Why are people so worked up over this? I mean, it will take longer on a 56k, yea, but deal with it. I have 56k, but you don\'t see me complaining or asking someone to help. Here is another thought: YOU DON\'T HAVE TO PLAY CB THE DAY IT COMES OUT!!!! Yes, you can wait a few days or a week if you must, IT WILL BE OK!! Go outside and do something. Run a bit, work out, go to a friend\'s house or something while it downloads. You don\'t have to be that addicted to the computer to not pull away from it...
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Most people seem to like to sit infront of their PC\'s watching things download. Wish I had that much free time :P
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Methinks this is getting old... :P And seeing as this has already been discussed before, it might aswell be closed. As always, if you have something direly in need of posting here, PM me and I\'ll reopen for you temporarily (if I think it deserves it).