PlaneShift
Gameplay => Newbie Help (Start Here) => Topic started by: corsairk8 on January 04, 2002, 05:36:29 am
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Please give your feedback.
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I know we keep beating the issue to death, but I can\'t resist throwing out another idea. :)
What if we charged something low (like $10/yr) to have an account on a \"certified\" server, but left it free if someone else provides the server?
That someone may have hacked his own cheats into the server, or not, and no one will really know. But on our servers, people will know everything is fair. (Except of course for the secret developer backdoors. :)
V
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sssshm, we cant let our fans know about those backdoors ;)
btw, i dont think its right to mislead people into thinking its secure, when we are running it on untrusted servers.
if we can find trustworthy people that would be good, if we can buy them ourselves thats good too.
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Hey I thought Planeshift was always gonna be free, so why are you talking like this?
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hmm, we\'re talking about this thread as \"the thread that wont die\" but it\'s actually a topic that needs to be deiscussed. either now or in the future, that doesn\'t mind. You can\'t denie running a server costs an awful lot of money, and we need a way to generate money.
The strong point in planeshift is that it\'ll be totally free. So don\'t even bother about propositions like premium accounts and so on.
What we need is creative ideas to generate money. Or find someone with a broadband server that wants to host fro free 9or for something else than money, adverisement for example.
set your brain to work!
Thekkur
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i have a server on a broadband connection, i could always help :D
//binaryreject
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I liked one of Talad\'s ideas - to actually create unique, special items in game which could be sold for real money donations. But not buying this stuff would in no way put you at a disadvantage. One of Talad\'s ideas was, for example, a jeweled sword - would give you no extra advantage in combat, but would look damn nice and be totally unique.
Maybe this idea could be expanded to new buildings, or certain game areas which could be named after a particular donator.
To get away from arguments over such things, perhaps each item could be sold over a period of days in some kind of an in game auction or something.
I don\'t know how practical these ideas are, but if the game is as good as it is looking, then I\'m sure you will have no shortage of dedicated players willing to spend a little real money on some unique items and opportunities.
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can there be special magic spells too? as well as special weapons?
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that idea wouldnt go well with magic. the way it would work with an item is that a normal player would have bought a sword that does 50 damage and is a speed of 30. he also has a shield that is armor points of 60. both gotten from an ingame vender for a handfull of in game money. now the player that payed real cash would have a fancy looking gem encrested sword that is 50 damage and 30 speed. also would have a golden shield with vibrant colors that was 60 armor points. you couldn\'t quite do that with magic. there isnt much you could change with a spell and make it the same effect and mana cost as a normal spell.
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couldn\'t you change the color? or make it brighter?(the spell)
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Kada-El: that\'s a great idea, who wouldn\'t want to have a nice looking longsword for 20 bucks? you could even make your own design... and it\'s something you could ask for christmas. The difficulty of the model would depend on the price ofcourse.
This might give us some money, but\'ll need some organisation too. (which\'ll cost money by it\'s turn). keep thinking of more solutions.
Thekkur
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I really like the idea of pay swords/objects and in game auctions for those unique items.
Maybe guild houses could also be improved this way. Those wouldn\'t confer game advantage either, other than perhaps recruiting benefits, but people do spend a lot of money on their guilds. Look at all the domain names and web hosting that gets done for guilds.
Just an idea...
Venge
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Hey, I got a Server here that runs off of ADSL (DSL) Could always help hosting for the game. :D
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In another game I played, Mystic Realms of Alhanzar, players could design their own guildhouses, but they had to pay real money to have them built. The prices were very reasonable: there was a base cost for a \"minimum package,\"
additional costs for more stuff: added square footage, more rooms/features, etc. Thus players in a guild could chip in together to buy a guildhouse. Since this game is graphics-intensive, you could easily add in stuff like tapestries, paintings, other decorations, secret doors, etc etc, all for a modest fee.
I forget how they worked it if one of the contributing players left the guild; I think they left it to be worked out among the guildmembers.
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I think you should make it possible to make free donations without anything attached. The donators could get there names on display somewhere ingame and somewhere on the website, but nothing more.
I would happily donate some real life coins, and I think a lot would follow in the wake.
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the same thing done with objects can ofcourse also be done with guildhouses, and even own houses. The price shouldn\'t be too low though, because such variables in the game slow it down.
Th ide ayou gave elmundo, might be implemented, but I think it\'ll costmore than we\'ll profit from it. looking at other games that depended on free donations and bannerclicking (Planetarion for examlple) that won\'t profit. Planetarion had about 250.000 users, and alsmost none of them clicked the banners. even less payed free donations. and planetarion is only a text based game (without much server needs) therefor they finally went to p2p, which we don\'t want. but if you want to donate, i\'ll happily give you the number of my bank account :)
Thekkur
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Regarding Banners make it Mandatory NOT optional to click the banner ads. For instance lets say per month a player must click an ad only 60 times. (2 times a day)
A player before loggin/creatin in with his character would have the option to see his banner clicking status. ( It might say 25 banner clicks) If the player didn\'t click a banner or banners a total of 60 times in a month, he would recieve an email telling him if he doesn\'t meet his previously missed goal in a week, his account would be deactivated for a week.
This would solve the problem easily. Because clicking a banner ads 2 times a day isnt unreasonable.
SImply make banner clicking Mandatory and Planeshift has a high chance of staying free for ever!!!
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That is a great idea. I can see no problems with clicking twice a day. Unless you get behind :D GO on vacation for 3 weeks, come back, have to click 28 times.
You could make it that you have to click 2 times every day you are online. But good idea anyway.
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Haha, fantastic idea, Buechler! Cant believe no one even thought about that before.. :D
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I mean think about it lets say PS decides to have 1server with a maximum to hold 500players. I would guess if this were the case there would be at least 750 accounts, if they all clicked the ads 2 or more times a day Planeshift could support it self well.
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But you must remember most adds give not even a dollar of money. That would mean by the end of a day there could be only about 20 dollars.
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That\'s right bill. most adds in fact only get you $0,01 (or even less) dollars PER CLICK. Even if 1000 players click the banner once each day, you would only get 10 dollars a day...
Thekkur
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Yep.
Also some (or all?) banner companies make it so there is a [enter number here] hour time between clicks where it will really count. So if you click it several times it will only count once, have to wait a set amount of hours until the click will be counted again.
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i dont know about all this banner stuff but what i do know is that i would definatly pay as much money as i have to as long as i get cool looking stuff and there is a mail-in address
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Actually, from what I remember about advertising, the companies who advertise don\'t allow \'mandatory clicking\' on ads or \'clicking quotas\' or even multiple ads per page in most cases. These things just don\'t help thier cause (i.e. sales)...
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There are companies that pay for only showing a banner, not actually clicking it. What counts then is the amount of hits per day on the page. The companies pay a certain fee and on top of that the company pays you for each click on the banner. Companies only want do this when there\'s more than 1000 hits per day on a site.
In addition it is possible to make rotating banners (each time you visit the page you see another banner) when you have 2000 or more hits per day.
Thekkur
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I think all theese are great ideas i think you should try the special weopans for real money and the guild house thats cool and having your own houses that wouldnt be bad you bye your house and you could say store items and get a free heakl in your own home :) donations and advertisments are a good way hey i think this game will be good im sorry i wont be able to contribute to expensive but the reason i wanna play is its free and the graphics look SWEAT!!! :)
Long Live Half Feline Race !!! :P
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how much money a week are you guys gonna need
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This is already going down the wrong road.... I would love it to be absolutely free but we dont live in a world like that. What I see is that people could pay for the rights of construction of a house or something like that.
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i think an initial cost would be the best and not a per month thing... or make items customizable for money, but don\'t change their stats...
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what you mean by customizing it? like a new look or something?
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Could work. Just not porn please. I don\'t think that will put players in a good roleplaying stat of mind. \'Its christmas at ground zero, theres panic in the crowd...\' gotta love weird al.
I always wondered about this. I have a friend who refuses to even look at this game because he thinks he\'ll get into it then it will die cause it has no business plan on the site. I tell him \'have faith\' but hes like, and atheist. Meh, anyway, cash flow = problem. banner = possible solution. But I swear to god, a banner in game would be obnoxious. I would probably retch at least once a day while playing j/k remember, this is the deluded writing of a sleep deprived slacker in college, at 3:00 AM, who has to get up at 8:00 AM....to work 12 hours that day.
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Originally posted by Kendaro
that idea wouldnt go well with magic. the way it would work with an item is that a normal player would have bought a sword that does 50 damage and is a speed of 30. he also has a shield that is armor points of 60. both gotten from an ingame vender for a handfull of in game money. now the player that payed real cash would have a fancy looking gem encrested sword that is 50 damage and 30 speed. also would have a golden shield with vibrant colors that was 60 armor points. you couldn\'t quite do that with magic. there isnt much you could change with a spell and make it the same effect and mana cost as a normal spell.
That isnt totally true for instance regarding different spells that you could change.
here is one type i gotta go and will update this fully later.
Magic missle
Different colors for the missles
knives
icicles
flames
arrows
darts
etc etc im sure you understand
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3 am?! damn... youll have one hell of a day. Im cranky if i dont get 6 hrs min. :D
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when i say make weapons and armor customizable i mean that yuo can pay and get a custom design of your making or choosing to put on your armors, but it needs to be where you can do it as much as u want once u buy the design so you can upgrade your armor without worry... and it disappears if you lose it in a duel or something...
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isn\'t mandatory banner clicking illegal? I\'ve seen it implementent on websites but at the end site they always say something like:\"if the site you linked to us from made you click here please put there address here and we\'ll...\"
I think this is a great idea but is it legal?
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I\'m not sure if it\'s ilegal but it\'s definately frowned upon.
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I am totally against paying for anything jus so it looks cooler. i mean people are always saying everquest is a pos, even with luclin, o wow, u no look twice as good! jus making something so it looks special and costs 10 bucks is never worth it. cuz your jus paying for a bunch of 1\'s and 0\'s to go across the screen and make it look pretty.
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hi i am new to the forums
i thought of a good idea for that pay problem
why dont you put ads in the game?
wouldn\'t it be cool to just sit down at the bar and see
an ad for nike on the wall?
er..
...
scratch that idea..
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Originally posted by Cyonamie
I am totally against paying for anything jus so it looks cooler
But there is no game advantage in paying and having custom stuff, so it\'s not necessary that you do. It would just be a nice reward if people did want to donate, I would love to design something for my character to wear or carry and would be happy to make a donation for the priviledge.
Welcome to the forum Humanscab, you\'re right about scrapping that idea, a Nike advert would be awful to see in the game\'s setting!.....ummm nice name =/
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Let\'s keep it simple! No prices!!!
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Ok, im a RTS player, just heard bout this game like 2 weeks ago, thought I\'d just drop a few idea\'s in, Banners on the site is good, paying for items such as special swords, custom armor, customized by person buying is good, custom house buying is kew with me, i\'d pay, and just a normal donation type thing works, i\'d pay like 50$ just to get game goin if i had job (hey im only 15 what can i say, i need a job), tho banners in-game is prolly the most annoying thing i have ever heard, had experiences w/ battle.net and starcraft sh!t where i got pist cause those banners made me zone out for like 30 mins..
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ok ok, i just came up with this one 5 mins after i posted, they should sell T-shirt\'s and cups and other promotions of thier game, if they make a hoody shirt for 10$ (just an idea) and sell it for 15-20 they would make a 5-10$ profit plus it would advertise thier own site, they could also sell other products such as cups, mugs, hats, mouse pads, and other promotional items
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ya ya, i kno, i come up w/ alot of crazy idea\'s but these ones are kinda messed up...
ok first, they could sell out web space such as, like i\'ve seen, http://www..planeshift.it w/ like 10$ a year for 10 MB of web space without ads... (pricing i just made up, not a real estimate)
another one could be e-mail services, such as @planeshift.it for like 10-15$ a year
and they could have special platinum and gold packages that mix the two... (once again price is not a real estimate just a random number)
these were just a couple more idea\'s i came up with wile i was in shower, dont ask me how i came up with them...
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what u talking aobut morphine?
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he\'s talking about Planeshift hosting fan-sites and e-mail adresses and having redirecting url\'s and stuff to raise some money..
I like the idea.. but it dont know if anyone would buy it...
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Originally posted by alcapalis
he\'s talking about Planeshift hosting fan-sites and e-mail adresses and having redirecting url\'s and stuff to raise some money..
I like the idea.. but it dont know if anyone would buy it...
How about the clans/guilds? They could use it. I think they\'d like a part of the space.
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ya thats what i originally intended and ment, but of corse im gunna be makin T-shirts and hats and mouse pads as my own way of income soon, so hopefully if i make enought money off of sellin that and some drugs(only weed) i should be able to make some kinda profit more than 100$ and then ill send it to them : ) SO DONT BUG ME BOUT HOW DRUGS ARE BAD, I WONT LISTEN
for the T-shirts tho, im gunna have some quotes that ppl round here, New England MASS, love, and want to show to the teachers our hateful intentions... (i hate my skoo)
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I understand that projects such as this require money, but I think that if we really search for a way, we can find it. I have a few ideas that seem to be slightly different than those already expressed.
Selling things is an unreliable source of income. You can\'t predict how much money you are going to raise over a given period of time. I think that ads are unfortunately the way to go. I have a few suggestions to keep the client ad free, but the game still contain those messages that advertisers want us to believe is so valuable. What if the ads were displayed in game, on a message board in the towns, or places like that? That would free up the client from ads, but that doesn\'t ensure that people will click without being told to.
What I\'m thinking is, what if you give incentives to click banners. It isn\'t mandatory by any means, but players have a reason to WANT to do it. For example, after X clicks, a player might get some sort of item that is non tranferrable, after 4X clicks they customize the name of one of the items, change the hue of their armor, get a new item--whatever.
The point is, give the players non transferrable items that they can show off (adding the personalized touch would really help that out a lot). If new players see what they can get just by clicking a stupid banner (no work involved), perhaps they will click so they can get the items that they see others wearing or bragging about.
At any rate, whatever you do to raise money, you need to make the players want to do it, and not make them do it. A happy player, is a returning player, and a returning player wants to click more to get the next reward...
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no-one would want to advertise with planeshift though if they KNEW people were only clicking cause they had to.
i would think that anything to do with modeling weapons and things for money would not be worth it... they would take awhile to do, and poeple wouldn\'t want to pay tons of money for them... unless u guys have time to burn...
i would say do simply things like selling titles, changes to characters(like hair color, skin color)... and maybe selling the right to start up a registered clan?
so if u wanted to set up a clan (legit clan) u would pay some money, and it would be placed on a list WITHIN the game with all members and enemies... and u would make member updates and declarations in the game...
like u could go to like a guild hall... and if u were the creator of the clan u would add / delete members and things...
this way... because it costs money to make a legit clan, there wouldn\'t be millions of nameless clans floating around...
but of course people would still make unofficail clans outside the game... so i dunno...
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and maybe selling the right to start up a registered clan?
sorry to say it.. but that idea is really sucky.. :)
The game is going to be free.. so all the things that are really an important part of the game should be free too...
Guilds are a very important part of the game i think.. so you shouldn\'t have to pay for it..
i think selling the customized items and stuff like that is a good idea... becuae it wouldnt have much impact on the game.. but its only to showoff
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ya i agree with alcapalis guilds shouldnt have to be made with real money, in-game money ya, but realy, would you pay real money to make a guild? then what if it dies off? u kno, i dont think i wanna pay 5$$ for each guild i\'d make then have it die off in like what a week.. cause in new games, with all the bugs, most prolly wont last long unless you actually kno the person or have thier e-mail, i member 1 time i joined and it died off after i joined and i couldnt get on cause some bug kept me from logging in.
and if u go to FAQ section it says this --
\"Will there be guilds in Planeshift?
Most Definitely, there will also be special powers for associated with each guild. Character with a good amount of (in-game) money and a number of followers can built a new guild.\"
Specifically the IN-GAME MONEY part
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ok then scrap that idea...
but still how much are people gunna be wiling to pay for the special weapons? i cant see anyone really spending much more then say 20$ or so...
also i dunno how long it takes to model something but i am guessing it would take many hours (especially if its a custom job) ... so i dont see how they are really gunna be able to pull that off, unless the modelers have alot of free time on their hands.
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i say, if you want to design something, they sould have a program for you to design it yourself, that way, they dont get so tied up in making it, you have something else to do with your life, and everyone is happy, plus if u dont like something you could just change it, then when your done, submit it, then when they implement it, its all yours, they dont have to worry bout all this other stuff..
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OK I think I have the solution. ?PlaneShift brought to you by Dell? [Fill in any large Tech Company]. The idea would be to have Dell (or other) provide the server(s) on their existing connection to the net and they get the sponsorship rights. What Tech company would not jump at the chance to get the goodwill of 100,000 geeks with very little cost to themselves? I am an IT manager and when purchasing items that are technically the same I go with the company I know and like. So when I go to purchase my next 20 PC?s I chose Dell over HP (or others) because Dell was nice enough to provide me with free entertainment. Thoughts?
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heej.. didnt i read exactly the same post somewhere else on this board? hmm.. just a little guess.. :D... i think we arent that stupid that we need to have a post posted twice...
but its nice of to also think about the dumb people around here.. :)) (are they over here?)
sorry man.. just joking.. i just really need weekend.. i\'m getting to ignoring
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The old discussion about money...
We\'re not (and we\'ll probably never be) a commercial project, which means that we don\'t need to make money... A small exception will probably be the server, but I assume that\'ll not be too expensive and feasible with either donations or a cheap subscription if donations don\'t work...
I can understand that you\'re all thinking about banners or custom player models, but I wonder who will really pay for this? I\'ve got a much better idea: Create your own cool custom skins and models and donate them to the project! This helps much more than a few bucks more...
I\'m counting on contributions of the community to the game later! We\'re doing this for fun, and you\'re playing it for fun, so if you want to thank us, contribute in form of more fun (=skins, quests, worlds etc.) and not stupid money.
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Last time I checked a dedicated server on a decent size pipe (OC3) ran about $500 per month. Most of them also limit bandwidth/month and charge extra if you go over. Runescape is running 10 servers to handle the load. I think you may find that the server cost will be a problem. That is why having a company with these resources in place as a sponsor my work out.
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the servers the ps are using have been offered by a company, in other words, THEY ARE FREE.
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they should ask Ntl World (http://www.ntlworld.com) for a server
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I like the idea of corporate sponsors just providing the servers. It\'s so crazy it just might work.
I would nominate VA Linux as a possible choice. This game is going to be (hopefully) quite a showcase for Linux servers, and VA Linux already has dozens of servers running sourceforge on a free basis.
We\'ll see, and for the near future it really doesn\'t matter.
- Venge
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Originally posted by MatzeB
I\'m counting on contributions of the community to the game later! We\'re doing this for fun, and you\'re playing it for fun, so if you want to thank us, contribute in form of more fun (=skins, quests, worlds etc.) and not stupid money.
You may have just become my new hero! ;)
BUT... receiving voluntary donations from players to help offset the costs of running a top-notch game isn\'t necessarily a bad thing. I work for a couple of game companies as a freelancer, and I attend a number of game conventions each year. I have personally witnessed RPGA (RolePlaying Gaming Association)members shelling out HUGE sums of real-life money (we\'re talking 3 or more digits here, folks) for unique items for their characters to use in future games. Of course, they do it for charity, but the principle holds true for this as well, I think. I wholeheartedly support the idea of exchanging unique items and so forth for donations... it\'s a proven technique, and let\'s face it... it\'s cool to have the absolutely ONLY anything in a RPG.
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...well we could all rob a bank and then use the money to creat a super ps. hows that sound? huh?
i got it all worked out.....just got to
http://ha.kl.psrob.gk/psrobbery.html
for detailed plans on how we\'ll rob this bank
sike! :P
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I think we should do either:
Talk to a major company (Wizards of the Coast) and see if they will sponser us. They might be able to distribute it which would bring in money on the long run. Downside is that they would have there name all over it and some money.
OR:
Get people to help by getting people to donate serer space and work to PS and give them game money and the enjoyment of knowing there idea,story,skin, NPC etc. is in the game
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Great Idea Master Hitman i think it would work. I couldnt get the plan to work but it should be pretty simple.
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Sup link? nice to kno that there are more ppl in clan Hitman than just myself, i knew there were more, didnt kno when we were gunna meet tho..
i say, just let the thing work itslef out, if u need money, get a job... (im currently lookin for 1 tho im only 15) i mean u cant be workin on this thing all day right? u gotta have at least 8 hours a day doing almost absolutly nothing (like sleeping for example) if u\'d just put that time to good use, like getting a job, and working at it, u could get money then create the game later in the day...
and until this game actually comes out, ill be playin Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, Action Half life, and Half life Paintball as BigestNewBUllEvaC..
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There is one problem with custom textures, Lag. Look, say 100 people pay like 5 bucks for a Custom Texture on there armour or there weapon, that means 100 more textures in the game that people would\'t really need unless they seen that person, and if you don\'t know the person, you shoun\'t give a damn whats on there stuff. So wen it comes to updates, like every day it would update because the Creators would have to add an other texture to the game, and that texture ends up in your comp, so it takes space.
I have a 40gig hard drive, I don\'t have a problem because I got room, but what about people who have a 20gig? I bet they have other stuff on there comp also, not just one game, so texture after texture after texture, means lag, and used space, that could be used to speed up the game play and be able to have more FPS(frames per secound).
I know 1 texture isn\'t to big... but say have a an extra thousand in the game for no good reason, it lags the game.
But don\'t get me wrong, I\'d love to have my own texture on my armour, but it would create lag after a wile for everyone as time passes and people buy there own.
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hey by helping out with my site. what exactly can u do?
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I can do HTML, I have my own server, I can do graphics... I\'m learning PHP soon... so that might come in help after a wile.
What would you want me to do, is more like the question. :D
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I think that instead of charging money every month or every year, people playing can make donations like Paypal or something. I don\'t think that it would be fair if some people who pay monthly or yearly should get extra privileges because there are people out there who can\'t pay over the internet (like me)
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gosh i keep telling u guys we should just rob a bank and set the ps dev team up for life :D
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Heres an idea. We will all fly to england, and rob jagex(runescape for u slow people). Have soem fun, adn get money to run ps :D
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We can steal all their Code too like they stole from other games
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last time I checked, the owner of RS is Andrew Gower. hehe
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well whatever it takes, as long as we can keep one thing on the net really \"free\".
seems like everyone wants something these days. what ever happen to people just making a game for the hell of it? now everyone expects to get paid, (*sigh)
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i say lets just go and rob the bank, then hide in antartika w/ our comps and keep robbin ppl till we make enough money to set them up for life, and then keep on robbin more banks till we have enough money to keep us alive, and live like kings in life, history books, and in comps ^_^ or we could go to afghanistan where the american dollar is worth like 65200 ^_^ thats a long ways for 1 dollar..
i say, let me never be complete, i say may i never be content, i say deliver me from swedish furniture, i say deliver me from clever art, i say deliver me from clear skin and perfect teath, i say you have to give up, i say evolve and let the chips fall where they may
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yeah lets go to afghanistan!
lol :))
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i believe the corporate sponsor idea is the best so far. but a dev said to donate skins and models and stuff, that\'s a great idea too. ive been wanting to get on the dev team, but im the leader of a guild, so we can just donate things, and not have to actually be on the list :).
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I\'ve just discovered PlaneShift and I think it looks great. I would be sorry if it were to get stuck due to lack of funds. ;(
I think the idea of buying special swords etc with real $$$ sounds cool. I just wonder if the work involved might make it not so profitable, but I guess you can but try... Having been involved in the past with donations, all I can say is that I\'m skeptical about how anyone can survive on them.
My feeling is that it would be better to pay a small fee of say $5/month, if this were necessary to keep the game alive. In fact, if it really develops as promised, I would even be prepared to pay $10/month.
I apologise if this is an unpopular suggestion :O - as I said, I have just discovered this game, and am new to this forum. But I\'ve been hunting for a good MMORPG, and all the free ones look pretty bad. The ones that look comparable to Planeshift (at least the game plan) cost over $10/month. So at $5/month it would still be a real bargain.
Especially if the download is free. I really object to games where you have to spend heaps of money buying the software before you can start playing (eg: DAoC). What if you don\'t like it? I think a game should be REALLY free for the first 30 days...
:) :) :)
SilverStar
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mmmmmhhh....
placards? sponsor....
(cartelloni pubblicitari in italiano)
In some sport games like fifa,gp etc. I ve seen a lot of placards.......
Don\'t know if in a game like this it could be realisable....
Only an idea ;)
Ciao Ciao
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You will notice this thread is from April, Please don\'t bring them back we have all seen them.
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Originally posted by Link
we have all seen them.
Apparently this is not the case. As you can see this thread (and threads like it) answers a lot of questions that new people ask. These threads also sometimes discuss ideas that have been suggested recently, but often benefit from having more input from the developers.
I think it is sometimes valuable to see some of these older topics again.