PlaneShift
Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: ArcaneFalcon on November 01, 2004, 05:50:37 am
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ArcaneFalcon's unofficial guide to contributing 2D/3D to PlaneShift
(last updated 2/5/06 1530 CST)
Index:
-1: Beginning notes
(3D)
0: Glossary/jargon & acronyms
1: Getting the necessary programs
2: tutorials
3: Rules when contributing (recommended polycounts, etc.)
(2D)
4: How can you contribute in 2D?
5: Getting started doing 2D
6: Effects (spells, markers, etc.)
7: Ending notes
Also take a look at Thenior's guide to exporting to Crystal space (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=11508.0)!
-1: Beginning notes
This is for those of you that need help getting started in the 2d/3d area of contributing to PS (PlaneShift). I would recommend reading through it before you begin to do anything just to make sure you still want to give the time and effort to take the dive. Keep in mind it will take some time before you can start making things worthy of being put in-game. Don't despair, just keep practicing! For those that don't want to do modeling, skinning, or animating, but would rather draw stuff by hand or in photoshop, there is still a definite need for you! See section 4!
As a note, the Laanx Wheel of Wishes guide is an excellent supplement, I just wrote this because a lot of people on the forums don't know about the LWoW guide. I took some of my links for tutorials and programs from that guide. Thanks Orogor. <http://lww.demon-host.com/index.php (http://lww.demon-host.com/index.php)>
If you have corrections (I'm sure there are tons), contributions, want to report broken links or typos, or need more help/explanation please PM me.
0: Glossary/jargon & acronyms
Glossary/jargon:
A highly recommended, and exhaustive, resource on general 3d terms is the PolyCount glossary <http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/res...ry2/index.shtml (http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/res...ry2/index.shtml)>
Acronyms used in this guide:
PS - PlaneShift, the game you will be contributing to
CS - Crystal Space, the game engine
cal3d - the library that PS is using for skeletal (character & creature) animations
A note on the use of cal3d: Cal3d is used for skeletal animations (characters, creatures). Simple animations (opening chests, doors, rotating windmills, etc.) can be done with the CS sprites. Cal3d is for anything with a skeleton.
1: Getting the necessary programs
First, we need to get set up for making 3d objects, skins (2d textures), and animations. You will need at least 2 programs; one for 3D and one for 2D. Let me just go through some pro's and con's of your options.
3D Programs:
There are 3 main programs supported by CS: 3ds max, blender (+ wings 3d), and maya. Some others can be used by converting into common formats, but those are the 3 programs with CS exporters. For this reason, I won't cover any others (yes, I know milkshape has some exporters too, but I don't think many people use it - get in touch with Orogor if you really have your heart set on using milkshape).
3D Studio Max <http://www.discreet.com/ (http://www.discreet.com/)><http://www.cuneytozdas.com/ (http://www.cuneytozdas.com/)>
This is probably the most quality program you can get for doing 3d models, animating, and skinning. It comes at a pretty hefty price, however. I would recommend starting with something else unless you intend to get pretty serious straight off. If you get this I would highly recommend getting the texporter plugin (second URL).
Pros:
- excellent tools for modeling/animating/skinning
- has a CS (Crystal Space) and cal3d exporter
- many tutorials available
Cons:
- expensive
Exporters:
CS: download & manual - http://lww.demon-host.com/upload/exporterguide.zip (http://lww.demon-host.com/upload/exporterguide.zip)
Also see this thread.
cal3d: download - http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cal3d..._default=aleron (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cal3d..._default=aleron)
manual - http://cal3d.sourceforge.net/docs/guide/index.html (http://cal3d.sourceforge.net/docs/guide/index.html) (general guide for all cal3d use)
Blender <http://www.blender3d.com/ (http://www.blender3d.com/)><http://www.yafray.org/ (http://www.yafray.org/)>
Blender used to be a bought product, but the free source community bought the program (no, they BOUGHT the program) and so now it is available for free. It has pretty good modeling tools, but a steep learning curve. However, that learning curve can be greatly reduced as the newest version can import wings3d files directly. This means you can make use of wings 3d's excellent ease of use for modeling and texturing, and then take them to blender for animation. If you want to do any rendering it's recommended you get yafray independently (second url)
Pros:
- good tools for modeling, skinning, and animating
- has a CS and cal3d exporter
- decent selection of tutorials available
- FREE
- can be used with Wings3D (imports .wings files)
Cons:
- steep learning curve
Exporters:
CS: download & manual - ftp://sunsite.dk/projects/crystal/crystalcore/ (http://ftp://sunsite.dk/projects/crystal/crystalcore/)
cal3d: download & manual - http://oomadness.tuxfamily.org/en/blender2cal3d/index.html (http://oomadness.tuxfamily.org/en/blender2cal3d/index.html)
Wings3D <http://www.wings3d.com/ (http://www.wings3d.com/)><http://www.yafray.org/ (http://www.yafray.org/)>
This is a great program for beginners. It is easy to use and learn, in addition to being free. It doesn't, however, do animations. It also requires you get yafray if you want renders (second URL). The latest release of blender has an importer for wings' files. This means you can model and texture in wings (using it's efficient modeling and texturing tools) and then take it to blender for animation and exporting.
Pros:
- easy to learn and use for low poly stuff
- FREE
- can be used with Blender
Cons:
- can't do animations
- no CS or cal3d exporter (but can export to .3ds or .obj)
- tutorials aren't incredibly abundant
Exporters:
Currently there aren't any (to my knowledge). You can, however, export your models to .3ds or .obj and have someone with max/blender export them for you.
Maya
I don't have any URL's for this one yet (I'm lazy, sue me) but Maya is an excellent (if not expensive) 3d app. It is a viable option and has CS exporters, though I'm not 100% sure they work (probably do). I'm still checking out whether it has a cal3d exporter as well. I'd imagine it does. Basically, if you already use Maya then continuing to use it for PS shouldn't be a problem. If you aren't familiar with Maya then don't worry about it.
Other 3D programs
I really wouldn't recommend using any other programs than these. Programs like gmax, maya PLE, lightwave, etc. really aren't useful in that they can't export into the correct format (and in the case of gmax and maya PLE, can't export at all). I would really recommend simply sticking to 3ds max and blender (and wings3d for modeling) as they both have the necessary tools and can get into the correct formats for in game use.
2D Programs:
There are really only 3 options for 2d: Photoshop, GIMP, and Paintshop Pro. Sure you could include Painter too, but I don't think that's really necessary for simple texture painting.
Photoshop <http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/main.html (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/main.html)>
The ideal program for doing 2D work. The industry standard, but also kind of expensive.
Pros:
- can do everything 2D
- tutorials EVERYWHERE
- completely awesome in general
Cons:
- kind of expensive
The Gimp <http://www.gimp.org/ (http://www.gimp.org/)><http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241 (http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241) >
This is a free source program similar to Photoshop. It is almost as powerful, not quite as intuitive an interface, and not quite as well known. I would highly recommend it for those who are just beginning and don't want to invest a lot of money. The second URL leads to a GIMP hack called GIMPshop. It makes the GIMP feel much more like photoshop. It is highly recommended as the interface is not only a bit more intuitive, but will help greatly for those of you who ever decide to switch to photoshop.
Pros:
- can do everything 2D
- some selection in tutorials, though nowhere near the selection for Photoshop
- FREE
Cons:
- interface isn't quite as intuitive as PhotoShop's (unless you use GIMPshop)
- require GTK+ for installation and use (not hard once you've done it once, not sure if you need it for GIMPshop, I already had it, someone let me know)
- weird name
PaintShop Pro <http://www.jasc.com/ (http://www.jasc.com/)>
Pretty good 2D program. Not free, but pretty much a close in quality to the other two previously mentioned programs. I would rank it, in my opinion, just below the gimp.
Pros:
- can do everything 2D
- pretty good selection of tutorials, more than gimp, less than PhotoShop
Cons:
- not free, cheaper than Photoshop though
Microsoft Paint
Umm...nevermind
2: Learning to use your programs
Here are the basics of what you need to learn to do in your programs:
Modeling: There are many different styles, you need to find one that works. For simple (and if you get good, complex also) low poly models box modeling is the way to go. There are fancier ways that can save you time (splines, NURBS, etc.), but if you just can't get it right, you can always come back to box modeling. The idea, when you are doing this, is to keep the poly count low. The first, second, and third rules of modeling for video games (and PS especially) are to keep the poly count low. KEEP THE POLY COUNT LOW. Simple objects should have no more than 200 triangle faces (make sure you are counting triangle faces and not square/quad faces), simple creatures or more complex objects should be around 400-800 polys, and characters should have 1k-2k polys (2k in some extreme cases, aim for 1k).
Skinning: Simply put, adding color to your model. First, you need to apply uvw map coordinates and flatten your model into a 2d plane. This is often the most tedious step in the whole process. You then need to export this plane to a 2d image format , create your skin in a 2D program, and throw it back in your 3D program and apply it to your model. Make sure you spend plenty of time on the skin as it will make or break your model.
Animating: You need to be able rig all your characters with skeletons and then export them to cal3d for use in the CS engine. All simple animations can be done with the CS exporter.
Exporting: All objects and things with simple animations need to be exported using the CS exporter. All complex moving objects (characters, monsters, complex moving objects) need to be rigged and exported using the cal3d exporter.
It will take a long time to learn all of this but it really is essential. You probably won't be contributing very much if all you can make is a badly skinned table. The key is simply to keep learning. The more you learn, the more of an asset you will be.
These are some references to tutorials that will get you started. Remember, if you need more tutorials or help google is your friend (and so am I, if need be).
A good place for some video tutorials on any program mentioned here (minus blender) is <http://www.3d-palace.com/videos_free.php (http://www.3d-palace.com/videos_free.php)>. They have max, wings3d, maya, photoshop, and even concept art tutorials.
3DS Max
The included tutorials are actually the best for pretty much everything (this applies to the texporter plugin as well). If you still need some help then do a google search. Here are some links, though, for some of my favorites:
- http://waylon-art.com/uvw_tutorial/uvwtut_01.html (http://waylon-art.com/uvw_tutorial/uvwtut_01.html) - good uv mapping tutorial
- http://www.virtualpartners.com/3DMAX6freeTutorialLinks.htm (http://www.virtualpartners.com/3DMAX6freeTutorialLinks.htm) - good selection of modeling and other tutorials
- http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/3DS-MAX/4 (http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/3DS-MAX/4) - another good assortment, watch out for ads
Blender
The tutorials on their website will help with basic use.
- [http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26870.0]http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26870.0[/url] - a beginner's tutorial on the PS forums by Cherppow, great stuff
- http://thrall.nakednorsemen.net/~bjorn/C...3dTutorial.html (http://thrall.nakednorsemen.net/~bjorn/C...3dTutorial.html) - a tutorial on rigging a character for the CS engine in blender, excellent
- http://biorust.com/index.php?page=tutori...il&tutid=85 (http://biorust.com/index.php?page=tutori...il&tutid=85) - a uv mapping tutorial
- http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Blender-3d/Materials/1 (http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Blender-3d/Materials/1) - a good selection of tutorials, again, watch out for ads
- http://www.ingiebee.com/Blendermania/Lan...with%20Gimp.htm (http://www.ingiebee.com/Blendermania/Lan...with%20Gimp.htm) and http://www.linuxgraphic.org/section3d/bl...didac1-ang.html (http://www.linuxgraphic.org/section3d/bl...didac1-ang.html) - 2 tutorials on using heightmaps (for making landscapes)
Wings 3D
I think their site also has the best tutorials for their program.
- http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thre...595410958604adc (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thre...595410958604adc) - a thread on this here forum regarding uv mapping and unwrapping, explanation is about 2/3 down
- http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=280096 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=280096) - a cgtalk thread with a linky to a uv mapping video
Photoshop
Shnikes, there are tutorials everywhere for this program. There is no set way to make skins, so just learn the program and use any and all skills to make your skins. If you simply play around with the program you will learn some of the obvious tools, but you will miss a plethora of excellent tools that make PhotoShop as awesome as it is. Do some tutorials and when it gives you values to put in for filters or something, play around with them to get to know what things do what. Highly recommended tutorials to look for are blending modes (!), quick mask, layer mask, channels (will save you a lot of time), brushes (!), and filters (lighting filter comes in handy for shading, requires knowledge of channels).
- www.freepgs.com/falcon/textures.html (http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/textures.html) - a tutorial I wrote for making seamless textures in Photoshop/Gimp
Gimp
Their homepage has some tutorials.
- http://empyrean.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/~nem/gimp/tuts/ (http://empyrean.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/~nem/gimp/tuts/) - some general tutorials
- http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/index.html (http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/index.html) - good exhaustive gimp resource
- www.freepgs.com/falcon/textures.html (http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/textures.html) - a tutorial I wrote for making seamless textures in Photoshop/Gimp
PaintShop Pro
I'm not really a big fan of PSP, and google gives plenty of options.
- http://www.psplinks.com/ (http://www.psplinks.com/) - a good exhaustive PSP resource (and is up to date, as opposed to a lot of the google results)
[Formatting fixed --Santiago]
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(did you know a post can only have 12345 characters?)
3: Rules when contributing
1. KEEP THE POLY COUNT LOW
2. KEEP THE POLY COUNT LOW
3. KEEP THE POLY COUNT LOW - Simple objects should have no more than 200 triangle faces (make sure you are counting triangle faces and not square/quad faces), simple creatures or more complex objects should be around 400-800 polys, and characters should have 1k-2k polys (2k in some extreme cases, aim for 1k).
4. The CS engine has problems rendering intersecting faces. It doesn't light things correctly when the faces intersect (this is actually a problem in all game engines, not just CS). For small things like spikes or handles it's not a big deal, but in general models should be kept air-tight.
5. Please make sure you do spend a good amount of time making at least a decent skin to go with your models. The skin will make or break the model. If it is the latter, I wouldn't be too hopeful on seeing it in game.
6. Skins can be any size, so long as the dimensions are a power of 2. 64x64 pixels, 128x128 pixels, 64x128 pixels, etc. are fine.
7. If you want a 2-sided face, then you need 2 faces sharing vertices facing opposite directions (faces are 1 dimensional objects)
8. Don't take constructive criticism personally
9. Don't be rude when giving constructive criticism
10. All your base are belong to us
4: How can I contribute in 2D?
The 3D people only have so many ideas, and it is often hard for them to translate ideas directly into a model. A mid-way state is highly useful, especially if it gives reference and/or inspiration. Simply put, draw stuff, and post it. It makes the job of getting it ready for in-game use sooo much easier. Even if it isn't the best art in the world, it definitely has its place. It's called concept art, not perfect art! Stick figures can be part of concept art (so long as it communicates something visually useful)!
Not only this, but it also gives game enthusiests something to look at. It's always fun to look at other's artwork for the games you are following (at this point I am drooling over the "TES IV: Oblivian" concept art).
5: Getting started doing 2D
You need three things to get started doing 2d stuff. Paper, a drawing utensil, and a way to get the drawing to the internet. That's it! Just pick up a paper and pencil, and draw something. Then put it some place others can see it, accept constructive criticism, make necessary changes. Lather, rinse, repeat until people start drooling! If you can add color that is even better. If you can scan it into photoshop and give it that nice "computer art" feel, even better. No idea is a dumb idea, just draw it! Concept art is an essential foundation to the overall direction of the artwork in a game though it is often largely disregarded. It is also a good way to make friends.
6: Effects
< http://www.andrewrobberts.com/eedit/tiki-index.php >
One piece of PS that is very easy to mod is the effects. These are the pretty flashes and animations that accompany things like spells. The target marker and the mouse-run marker are both effects also. To make your own you will only need a few things. You'll need a 2d program (covered above) and you'll also need a program called eedit which you can get at the above URL. You can actually make effects without eedit, but it is a royal pain in the deuce. If you know basic html then this will come easy to you. The effects are made using xml files which is very similar to html. The easiest way to learn is simply to read the wiki documentation and to look at effects already used in PS. Once you are decent at making effects you can submit them to www.ps-mc.com (http://www.ps-mc.com) and if you get really good you may even see a couple in PS (make sure you read the "Before You Begin" section in the eedit manual).
7: Ending notes
I hope this helps answer a lot of those general "how can I help? how do I help?" questions. Seriously though, if anyone has anything to add, any corrections, or any comments, feel free to PM me.
[Formatting fixed --Santiago]
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Hey Falcon
I use blender to do my models do u know someone else that use blender?(for PS models)
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How can I export to a file that can be used to CS?
I didnt have the CS exporter where cdo I get it?
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A good tutorial on going from blender to CS world file:
here (http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/~degris/blender/tutorial/)
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Acraig: Thanks, I replaced the guide I found with the one you just linked there. Yours is much better.
Taruk: In section 1, under the blender section, there are links to the blend2cs exporter, the manual that Acraig just linked here, and also the cal3d exporter & manual. You might also take a look in the blender part of section 2 for some other tutorial links.
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Wow great post.
Think this needs to be a sticky. Actually just got a copy of 3dMax from work and was thinking about trying it out but didn\'t evn know where to start lol. Maybe with all this info I will see what I can do :D
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Deservedly stickied, fantastic post Arcane. :)
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Nice Guide ArcaneFalcon! ;)
If you are using 3DsMax(5+ I think) there is a great tool called \"Render to Texture\". It can render a texture of what the model looks like in the veiwport. This is extremely useful if you have reflection Bumpmaps & other sort of textures you can create in 3DsMax but cannot be exported.
I will probably be making a tutorial on how to use it for Planeshift, but for now you will have to figure it out using the 3DsMax tuts. It is a great tool for making a texture or even making a based for a texture (detailed shadows & reflection etc.) If you set the UVW maps up correctly you can even save space on an existing texture or add the Illusion of bumpmaps etc.
Check it out, I\'ll maybe make the tut but I have been busy testing CB @ the moment, I\'ll probably get some time soon... 8)
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i can\'t get gimp to work :( installed it and everythimg....but i can\'t find the program.....
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First, make sure you also downloaded and installed the GTK library (the download should have been on the same page). Second, you need to get in the habit of installing programs to known places. If you really can\'t find it, try doing a search (Start>search).
:emerald:
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Very nice guide Arcane, something like this was direly needed... bravo.
OT: Oh, I actually played Zero Wing ages ago, and saw it there, not from the \"All your base\" video, so nerrr... I was part of the inside joke... My phone says \'move ZIG\' when I turn it on.
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Can someone post a color palette for skinning in Crystal Space please? Or does a standard like 256/16k work?
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If you\'re using photoshop, PSP, or gimp just set it on 8 bits/channel RGB. Any higher than that and the programs will lose functionality, any lower and it will look bad.
:emerald:
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tnx for answering :)
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Just to correct you MilkShape3D does something usefull, it has a working exporter to cal3D, or so it had when i used it like 6 months ago:
http://lww.demon-host.com/live.avi =wings+gimp+milkshape.
not an exeptional work, but it s workin
bigger problem is than it has a 30 days limitation.
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Ooh, thanks orogor!
*guide updated*
:emerald:
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Originally posted by ArcaneFalcon
ArcaneFalcon\'s unofficial guide to contributing 2D/3D to PlaneShift
(last updated 2/6/05 14:00 CST)
...
The Gimp
This is the free source version of Photoshop. It is almost as powerful, not quite as intuitive an interface, and not quite as well known. I would highly recommend it for those who are just beginning and don\'t want to invest a lot of money.
Pros:
- can do everything 2D
- some selection in tutorials, though nowhere near the selection for Photoshop
- FREE
Cons:
- interface isn\'t quite as intuitive as PhotoShop\'s
- require GTK+ for installation and use (not hard once you\'ve done it once)
- weird name
...
Don\'t want to be annoying, but I believe that you need to change the resalted sentence, Gimp (GNU Image Manipulation Program) is not a free source version of photoshop, is a program created from scratch, contributed from a lot of people around the globe.
You can say that Gimp is inspired in ps, but the source has nothing in common with ps, and the developement nothing in common with Adobe.
Sorry my bad english.
Salu2.
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from the GIMP download page (http://www.gimp.org/downloads/)
The GIMP releases [. . .] contain the source code and have to be compiled in order to be installed on your system.
Maybe I\'ve got my technical terms mixed up, but it seems to me that if you can go to the website and download the source code for free that it would be considered a \"free source\" project. And, by stating that the project is \"free source\" the fact that it is not associated with a for profit company is implied. Never the less, I will change the sentence to appease you.
This is a free source program similar to Photoshop.
Happy?
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Originally posted by ArcaneFalcon
from the GIMP download page (http://www.gimp.org/downloads/)
The GIMP releases [. . .] contain the source code and have to be compiled in order to be installed on your system.
Maybe I\'ve got my technical terms mixed up, but it seems to me that if you can go to the website and download the source code for free that it would be considered a \"free source\" project. And, by stating that the project is \"free source\" the fact that it is not associated with a for profit company is implied. Never the less, I will change the sentence to appease you.
This is a free source program similar to Photoshop.
Sorry for my bad expresion, I\'m don\'t have a problem with the \"free source\" part, but the \"version of\" thing.
Happy?
Yes Sir! :D You have a hapy Gimp-Lover :]
Salu2.
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Ok, so I\'m stuck.
About six months ago I attempted to download the CS exporter for blender and went to the webpage from LWW. Upon arrival I clicked on the windows GUI version...Blank page. Ok << 0.2.4 = blank page. Ok << 0.2.2 = blank page...?What the hell? Where do I get the damn thing? (I\'m using XP and Opera)
Second problem, The blend-cal3d files are all source on the site that I found. I don\'t really know how to compile source...I\'ll admit off the bat that I am not technically minded when it comes to the more, sublime aspects of my computers software tools. I can do just about anything from a quick tutorial though.
A little help would be greatly appreciated.
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I got the same problem and eventually had to ask Jorrit. Those links are broken, but you can grab the exe and readme here instead:
http://ftp://sunsite.dk/projects/crystal/crystalcore/
*guide updated*
:emerald:
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Thanks alot Arcane. One last question, what are the size conventions?
1m = 1m or something else?
And just so I have a reference to build by, the Enki is ?X? tall and the dwarf is ?Y?.
Last thing, the cal3d problem...? Is there an install .exe someplace?
Thanks again.
PS: OOMadness moved to:
http://oomadness.tuxfamily.org/en/blender2cal3d/index.html
FYI
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You\'re correct about the size convention; one unit = one meter. About character heights, I would check the races info on the main site. I think those are pretty accurate to the heights of the actual models.
And here (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=26281&package_id=102474) is every official cal3d download. I\'m still checking around though.
Thanks for the oomadness update. It is appreciated.
:emerald:
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Hey guys I have a problem in 3ds max.
This is what iv made sofar http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/ingvar/hammerv0.bmp
But I don\'t understand how to make it look normal, like made from metal or st.
And a nother thing. Can some one plz give me a sword file in 3ds max so I can look how it done??? ( I wont use it as my own)
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1. Broken link.
2. bitmap? Try a jpeg.
3. Let me see what I can find.
Edit: If you want a model to examine check out my granite meek (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=16166&boardid=22&styleid=3) thread and PM me if you want the model. If you are just starting I would recommend practicing with something other than swords or weapons. Try box modeling a simple object on your desk. Then model something a little more complicated, etc. Then when you start uv-mapping and texturing you can re-use these simple beginning models as subjects to learn on.
:emerald:
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Hmm, you advise against using Maya because you say it can\'t export to the correct formats but yet look at this CS3D FAQ page:
http://community.crystalspace3d.org/tiki-view_faq.php?faqId=5#q13
Perhaps it is an option after all or are the exporters not up to the same quality as for 3D Studio Max yet? (I\'m not talking about the PLE version).
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From what I know the support of CS for Maya is rather different that the one for 3dsmax or Blender.
Lately, there have been improvements for Blender exporter, and if you cannot afford or have the possibility to get 3dsmax, I would suggest Blender.
Ary
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It\'s not that I can\'t afford 3D Studio Max, it\'s that I\'ve started with and have been using Maya for majority of time, so I\'m more comfortable with it. Although it\'s not impossible to make a transition, it can be annoying.
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Yes, I know about the Maya exporters. I also know there are improvements to the exporter that haven\'t been released yet. The improved ones will export correctly, but I\'m not sure about the current ones. I\'m too lazy to learn maya enough to model and texture something to test if the current exporters work. Why don\'t you try using them and let me know your results?
:emerald:
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just a post to tell to ArcaneFalcon that a guy said yesterday on the IRC channel that there is a mod for gimp which can give the interface of photoshop to the gimp. ArcaneFalcon can you verify? and change your first post if its true?
the guy was new and called Cheslon or something like that.
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I actually saw that conversation and began checking it out. It can be done with a gimp hack called GIMPshop which can be found here (http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241). I\'m going to test it ASAP, I\'ll let you know what I find.
Edit: I\'m pleased to report that GIMPshop is pretty sweet. I could probably almost actually switch over to it, except that it lacks some features that PS (photoshop, not PlaneShift) has. For instance, the edit menu is missing things like define brush and define pattern. Another thing, I think PS\'s brushes are better. Not only is there more variety by default, but the options for changing them are much more in-depth. Still, I highly recommend this as an excellent PS alternative for those who like things free.
*guide updated*
:emerald:
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Well, I will try but it takes time and I was hoping someone else has already tested them, which is why I asked. ;)
However, if the improvements are being made, as you said, then either way, Maya is becoming a viable option as well and shouldn\'t be automatically discounted.
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Heres a description to replace the part
Maya
I don\'t have any URL\'s for this one yet (I need more than just a lunch break to find them) but Maya is an excellent (if not expensive) 3d app. It is a viable option and has CS exporters, though I\'m not 100% sure they work (probably do). I\'m still checking out whether it has a cal3d exporter as well. I\'d imagine it does. Basically, if you already use Maya then continuing to use it for PS shouldn\'t be a problem. If you aren\'t familiar with Maya then don\'t worry about it.
Maya
An extremely powerful commercial-grade new 3D program which was used in many famous movies and games, such as Shrek 2. However, it is quite complex and has a steep learning curve, although it comes with a number of tutorials. Finally, it is incredibly expensive, although alias lowered the price from $7500 (Maya Complete) and $16000 (Maya Unlimited) to $2000 and $7500.
Pros:
- Incredibly Powerful
- Well Known with a number of tutorials
- The more advanced versions come with a slew of features like Maya Skin and Maya Fur
- Strongly supports animation
Cons:
- Incredible Expensive
- Difficult, Sharp learning curve
Exporters:
No Idea ?(
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Thank you. I\'ll update it in the near future.
:emerald:
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Ok, I\'m just about ready to start trying out Cal3d just a couple short qustions for anyone that knows.
A: Where can I pick up a good compiler for putting this thing together. I\'m to lazy and tired this hour in the morning to search and besides that I usually find something that doesn\'t work.
B: Is there anything I need to know before I get started doing things in Cal3d like, \"When you try [this] it will re-write every sector on your hard drive to read (yay eggs).\" :))
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hi I downloaded blender and started do to some tutorial but I ran into a problem I don\'t know how to say it but heres a pic
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/ingvar/blenderbug.jpg)
as you can see some od the things aren\'t white, so I select the faces and then hit TAB then Ctrl+N, click yes then hit TAB again but there still not white, it worked for some pieces but not for all why?
Ok so I said f**k that and continiud with the tutorial but at near the end I get this
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/ingvar/blenderbug2.jpg)
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Hi everyone.
To XanWing: Seems lik the transparent faces are pointing to the opposite direction. Recalculate normals outside (ctrl+N) in edit mode should fix the problem. It only recalculates the selected face though, so be sure you\'ve all faces selected when recalculating. If that doesn\'t help, you can go flip the normals by hand: Select only the wanted faces in edit mode and choose W->Flip normals.
For the second problem it\'s harder to say what\'s wrong without knowing what the console says. You could try going into object mode and checking that the object ,whose UV map you want to export, is selected and then try exporting again.
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To fix the faces that are having problems go into edit mode, select face select and then look for a button that says show normals or draw normals. If when it is depressed your picture doesn\'t get all kinds of blue lines - one for each face, then increase the normal size with the slider. Then, you select each face that doesn\'t have the normal (blue line) facing outward, hit W and then select flip normal. do this for every face necessary. I don\'t recommend CTRL-N because it aways flips a few incorrectly for me anyways. :D Good luck,.
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WAIT!! I have a new Maya description, plus links.
Maya
When the alias says \"world\'s most powerfully integrated 3D modeling, animation, effects, and rendering solution\", they aren\'t lying. Maya is the most powerful 3D program you can get, and the industry knows it - Movies made with Maya include, but are not closely limited to: The Mummy, The Mummy Returns, George of the Jungle, The Fifth Element, Final Fantasy, The Hollow Man, The X-Man, Anaconda, Stuart Little, Shrek, Sindbad, Pandavas, Starship Trooper, Lake Placid, The Phantom Menace, Spiderman, Harry Potter, Jurassic Park 3, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Ice Age, and Shrek 2. The world\'s most advanced digital character, Gollum from Lord of the Rings, is made with Maya.
Of course, all this power comes with a price. A very large price. Although Alias lowered the price considerably, Maya still is in the range of thousands of dollars. Obviously you will not need all that power for Planeshift, and you will have to be very skilled if you can use that power at all, so don\'t go running off to the store to buy it unless you have big plans! :P
Pros:
- Incredibly Powerful
- Well Known with a number of tutorials
- The more advanced versions come with a slew of features like Maya Skin, Maya Hair and Maya Fur
- Huge Animation support
- Well organized interface is easy to use for even raw beginners, and yet handily holds hundreds of commands and tools.
- Has exporters for both CrystalSpace and cal3D
Cons:
- Costs more than a good computer (Unlimited version costs FAR more than a good computer)
Exporters:
CS and Cal3D exporters can be found here (http://community.crystalspace3d.org/tiki-view_faq.php?faqId=5).
Tutorials:
http://www.simplymaya.com/
http://www.learning-maya.com/index.php
http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Maya/1
http://www.pixel2life.com/tutorials/Maya_3D/All/
How do you insert the text wihtout the BB code converting?
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Hehe, is someone a maya fan? I really should get around to adding Maya, but I think your description is just a tad biased. ;)
I\'ll get it up there...today I hope. Who knows, maybe I\'ll even go through and *gasp* update it.
:emerald:
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Hahah yeah you got it.. :D
Although no exxageration about the movies it was used in.. and Gollum :P
Mabye I should write a description thats short and to the point, and unbiased as possible hehe..
Maya is the most commonly used 3D programs in major movies today. It is the industry standard, and is most often used in movies (3DSmax is more used for stills). Therefore, it has enourmous animation support. Lord of the Rings (Including Gollum, the world\'s most advanced digital character), and Shrek 2 are two famous movies made with Maya.
However, do not go to the store and buy it only for Planeshift as you will use about 15 of its hundreds of commands and tools. If you already have it, are going to buy it for your job, or can get it from work or something, Maya will do a splendid job of everything you put to work for. But at its price tag of 2500 USD (Cheapest version), you may want to look into cheaper alternatives until you are going to USE it.
The amazing thing is that with a program this advanced, it\'s suprisingly easy to use, and astoundingly easy on beginners. Even if you have never done 3D before, if you KNOW you are going to really USE it later, you can buy it. The learning curve is very gentle, one or two good tutorials will get you rolling.
Wait. It\'S longer. ;( The more I try to be unbiased, the longer it gets. I guess I just can\'T be simple and t the point with maya.. :P Or I just like to rant. See, here I go again, even with the Post-Script... Rambling on and on.. :( :P
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There is a Maya fan around here ... :-)
But still not skilled enough to prduce something worth contributing ... :(
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Hi I think you forgot a well known 3D Programm called Cinema 4d.
A very good 3D Program that costs less than 3d Studio Max but is a little bit expensive too.
It is very easy to use for startups how to make a PS file from a c4d File? I don\'t know but perhaps someone else does.
bye
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I didn\'t include programs like cinema 4d or softimage because they pretty much aren\'t used in the gaming industry. 3ds max and maya are used in the *vast* majority of gaming houses, with lightwave possibly coming in a very, very distant 3rd. There is virtually no free source support for them, and are therefore about as useful as any other 3d app I didn\'t mention. You\'d simply have to model and export to an intermediary format (.3ds, .obj) and get them into software that has the correct exporters (namely 3ds max, blender, and maya).
:emerald:
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Yes I know, from this side of view ok. It just looked like a start up guide for 3d beginners and then these Programms which have a great functionality in making movies ( I thought ) should be mentiont but of course nobody would try to make game development in Cinema or Softimage. Textures with multiple effects will mess up everything if you save as .obj . I think for start ups Blender is best. You can take a look if you are good at modeling and texturing and if you have fun doing this stuff. Maya and Max are more for advanced user which have the money. :-) =>like you said !
Your guide is very good written nice perhaps will try some stuff some time. If I find anything for Maya will send it then you can fill the last gap if you haven\'t done that already.
bye
P.S. : didn\'t want to bother you stay cool :-)
don\'t want to use them for gamemodeling either
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Xara Xtreme
Windows: http://www.xara.com/products/xtreme/
Open Source Linux/OsX: http://www.xaraxtreme.org/
Pros:
+ cheap ($79USD d/l)
+ has the capablities of both raster (like Photoshop) & vector (Illustrator)
+ can import/export Photoshop/Illustrator files
+ can use Photoshop plugins/filters
+ easy to use if you know another graphics program
+ fast rendering speed, can even render effects real-time
Cons:
- not widely used
- open source version is not really released yet (view-only tech demo)
If you were thinking about buying PaintShopPro, or even upgrading it, skip PSP & go for Xara. If you have Adobe suite alread, even Xara might help you render files faster.
Resources:
TalkGraphics forum (http://www.talkgraphics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
XaraOne.com (http://www.xaraxone.com/)
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This strikes me as an ad more than anything else, and the \"post count: 1\" doesn\'t help. I don\'t really see this competing with GIMP or PS personally...
:emerald:
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Update. This was really more of a compression than an update. I got rid of all the excess crap that I don\'t think is really necessary. Later if I\'m bored and I\'m tired of staring at the wall I\'ll go through and check all the links.
:emerald:
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ok, I need some help with 3ds max ...
I am starting with it (just made a few things succesfully from the included tutorials) and I am learning little by little everyday. I would like to get hold of the 3d models in the game, but I don't know where I can find them. I also have a few questions:
- What does CS do? Make all the data in a viewable form in which you can walk?
- What does cal3d do? (I know, it is a thing for skeletons, all I know ...)
- the cal3d link does not work, I found this (http://home.gna.org/cal3d/) page and I think it should be used instead ...downloaded it, but don't know what to do to install it.
- I installed a new menu in 3ds max, what does it export? (level, light, sprite ... what are they?)
- do I need to do anything else?
thank you.
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if you are starting modeling you shoud forget CS/cal3d for now till you get more aquaitance with modelling.
here is a good tutorial for you to start practicing:
http://www.3dtotal.com/team/Tutorials/polgun/gunmodel.asp
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I still don't know where I can get hold of the current models ... and I am using 3ds max and I don't know if I cna import .blend files ...
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The current PS models? These were exported in .cal3d format, and there is no importer. It's a one-way process.
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Max can't import .blend files, but blender can export .blend files to .obj and .3ds which can then be imported into max.
The models for the game are in the CS format in your PS files, which can't be viewed in max or blender (technically they can if you reverse export them, which I've seen Zeraph do, but they were limited to the point of being worthless), and they will not be released in the original .max format. In other words, find other reference.
CS is a game engine. It takes your artwork and rules, and makes them work.
Cal3d is a library for making skeletal animations work. Basically, developers write a few hundred or thousand lines of code (as opposed to many many thousands) and cal3d skeletal animations can then be used in the engine under development (in this case CS)
I'll look into the cal3d link.
The menu you installed was the PS exporter menu. There is a link somewhere up there on how to use it.
Buy me dinner.
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although the max->PS exporter is basically a "guess and see if it works" type operation when first trying to get it going. A few tips to get it working:
- Make sure you have an unwrap uvw modifier on your object
- You may only have one object to export, meaning, if you have a table and a glass on top, you must somehow make it so that they are attached physically, and using the same texture.
- Once you are done your model, add an/another "edit mesh" modifier, as the export gives an error if you dont.
- There will be a lot of trial and error when sizing up your item. I recommend that once you find the size, save that file and use it later for other models, as a reference.
If you are just starting modeling, then I really dont recommend setting your goals on making PS "mods" right now. First you gotta learn the very complicated program that is 3d studio max :love:
The current PS models? These were exported in .cal3d format, and there is no importer. It's a one-way process.
hehe :D for some reason this makes me laugh a lot. It sounds so scary, like youre sending your models off to die. :devil:
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Max vs Maya argument for those still stuck in the past with the outdated views on either package or simply curious:
(http://draster.com/images/max_vs_maya.png)
This is an excellent and fairly objective video comparison between Max and Maya (158MB High-Res QuickTime video file):
http://draster.com/videos/downloadable/dRasterVidBlog02-TT-Con.mov
Here's what the author said:
"Which is better, 3ds max or Maya? Some detest the very thought of asking such a question while others relish in it. I believe the debate has its place but perhaps some get put off by it because it usually turns into the proverbial flame war.
To this end, I created a video that compares and contrasts the main feature sets of 3ds max and Maya. It's about 24 minutes long and is actually part of an almost 6 hour DVD video that is primarily intended to help users transition from one to the other. I'm sharing the fast paced conclusion chapter here. Please understand that I tried my best to be impartial and this is just my perspective as an artist/animator/software developer."
The video shows that both are extremely powerful and capable of virtually anything. And any claims that one is clearly superior to the other are invalid.
Last but not least, the comparison holds up quite well, even with the recent 3ds Max 9 and Maya 8 release. The most significant new additions to Maya 8 not mentioned in this comparison are interactive object creation and Direct3D support. Both have also gotten significant improvements with Mental Ray 3.5.
Enjoy. ;)
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Thanks witchking, great resource. Usually the biggest factor in which will be used in a (game) project is whatever the studio/group/developer has used before. It's not a matter of superiority, but familiarity and preference. To date, PlaneShift has been largely 3ds max/blender based. Conversely, I know other CS projects are using maya for the majority of its content. Like I said previously, if you're familiar with maya, the resources exist to make it work. If you're not familiar with either (or familiar with both), I'd recommend 3ds max or blender for PlaneShift purposes.
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Maybe a bit superfluous, but it seems both Blender and Wings3D need the Yafray renderer separately now. The site for Yafray is http://www.yafray.org but anyone who tried downloading either Blender or Wings3D should have found this link on the appropriate site. Would be nice to strip the broken link to yafray from the guide though. Just to keep things up to date.
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Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to be around more often to keep this free of broken links, but help is always appreciated. I've fixed your link, and also added a link to the modelling sticky by Cherppow in the blender tutorial section.
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hey, i got macromedia flash 8 pro (dont ask) and i dont know anything that gimp does that it doesnt (but i havent had that much experience with gimp) i made an entire user interface (working) in macromedia and that worked out fine, i was wondering if it would work for whatever on planeshift you need 2D art for or just user interfaces?
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As long as your application can export .PNG files, you can use whatever you want. However, applications like Flash and GIMP were made for entirely different things, and you are not going to be able to texture in Flash ;) It's a very limited program in terms of the kind of work we need. Even GIMP fails sometimes when compared to Photoshop for certain tasks.
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When you see people putting together sweet flash ui's, they're still typically doing a lot of the graphical work in photoshop and piecing it together in flash. For PS, using flash wouldn't really be feasible since it's all put together in paws.
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couple of questions here. i'm new to PS and i first thought that i'll find something more advanced after finding news dating far back(years). first of all you should specify exactly what you need, or may need in the future. things such as landscape characters, texturing, level designers etc.
before posting this i've browsed the forum a little and see that there are quite a few guys that can take on bigger things, like those mentioned above.
you should make small work shops for each task and see who's up for it.
as for those asking about exporting 3d objects. it has absolutely no importance in what software are you working, work in the one that best suits you. there is one universal extension for 3d objects and this is .obj
you can model in any software and if what you've done is actually valuable the 3d artists from PS will surly take your obj mesh and export it into what they need.
someone asked where are the game models. these models cost good money if you were to buy them from a online shop, make some google searches to see some prices.
for the beginners i suggest them to try couple of free demo versions of more 3d packages and then settle with the one that you think it's better. i work in max, cos this is what i've got my hands in. both max and maya are, in my opinion, equal, still the absolute professionals in the biz(such as pixar) use maya. still pixar(search google) has developed their own render engine used by all companies that wanna make a film longer than half an hour, and they have their own made plugin for maya for animating. max script is very evolved and complex and you can turn max to fit your need in an industry, just like maya's script and that's why the possibilities are endless, making the softwares equal.
for max/maya questions first search the good old google, then post here. the softwares are under the same wing now(autodesk bought maya) and the principles apply to both packages.
i'm doing a personal project right now, then holiday, than i'll post some interesting stuff.
again, to underline what i've first wrote, something more specific about what to model/draw would be great.
OT: 1. how many guys do you currently have on scripting ?
2. is this 100% hobby-like workflow for the curent artists, or are you making an effort to turn this in something more advanced, something to compete with modern pay-to -play RPG's
3. ever thought to make some money out of this by keeping the registering free, and just giving some advantages to those who pay a very small fee such as improved account managing(statistics) gadgets on the screen showing extra stats, map. faster times for getting stuff. this won't ruin the game competitiveness since the by paying you don't get anything extra such as more attack damage/speed or exclusive items.
sorry for the ot, should have posted in the ideas thread, but i'm too tired, and these ideas came while writing.
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first of all you should specify exactly what you need, or may need in the future. things such as landscape characters, texturing, level designers etc.
Oh, we need everything :) But we can't accept random jobs from random people - all our art is dictated by the settings team, and there are a lot of things we're not allowed to share with the general public yet, but work on behind the scenes. So making a public list of what we need isn't possible. When it comes to small things (like missing inventory art, texture contests, etc.) we'll definitely have more opportunities for community artists to contribute, but large things will remain a task for the internal art team, or official team applicants. I encourage you to fill out an application if you think you'll have time to devote to longterm development. If you won't have the time but are still interested in contributing, send me an email or a PM and we'll discuss possible tasks. (Be sure to tell me what kind of art you are interested in making, in that case - textures, architectural models, organic creatures, etc.)
1. how many guys do you currently have on scripting ?
What sort of scripting are you referring to? Can you provide some examples?
2. is this 100% hobby-like workflow for the curent artists, or are you making an effort to turn this in something more advanced, something to compete with modern pay-to -play RPG's
Of course we would love for PS to compete with completed and professional MMOs, but it will forever remain in its own category. PlaneShift is going to remain a 100% volunteer-based project, with developers working on it in their free time.
3. ever thought to make some money out of this by keeping the registering free, and just giving some advantages to those who pay a very small fee such as improved account managing(statistics) gadgets on the screen showing extra stats, map. faster times for getting stuff.
Yes, this has been brought up many times over the years. You are free to donate to the project out of the goodness of your heart, but we are very much against giving people anything for donating. All PS players are meant to have equal access to everything in the game, so we are not going to mark those who give the project money as "special" players.
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thanks for the fast response.
you makes sense about the exact things to be modeled, and about gold. i personally browsed more than 10 browser games which apply the principle mentioned above and the fact that you are against this says a lot about your beliefs.
scripting to me means visual C as i now found out, or other scripting program you use for making the artificial intelligence and stuff for the game. i asked because i at first look, being experienced with more advanced games created by hundreds of pros, the game seemed rough. the walking, the object collision(very important) and the player interface, all seemed to me very unfriendly
i'll make some time tomorrow and post in the right sections some of my ideas..... 01:16 GMT+2 here :|
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We have maybe... 8 active programmers, I think, along with three active artists and two writers. These are all official, accepted, "full-time" developers. (There are more, but they are inactive for a bit due to vacations, moving, etc.) We have a lot of prospects as well (team applicants) that help us expand the game, which are on the road to dev status.